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El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)


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#91 Hawkeye77

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:49 AM

 TheInfidel, on 12 February 2019 - 10:29 AM, said:

This makes A LOT of guys on here look real stupid.  Stupid as rocks.  

$5k is embarrassing.

Why?

I’d have paid more (but easy to say) and I would have liked to have seen Kuch have paid more but it’s just none of my business and frankly anything over the agreed amount is a gift.

Just like Unforgiven, “deserve’s got nothing to do with it.”

Guy wasn’t even unhappy until a bunch of folks stirred something up and making him out to be something he wasn’t - a regular tour caddie. Not being part of the “deal” or being there for what happened it’s hard for me to call Kuchar names or suggest his conduct was embarrassing, and $15k was offered in the end and was a pretty generous offer under the circumstances.

Not sure that will change anyone’s mind but El Toucan turning it down on “principle” seems like more bad “handling”.

Anyway, not my money and probably best leave this latest thread on the subject.


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#92 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:49 AM

Pretty sure someone will give him a bag next time out. That said, for someone with £40 million of career earnings, what's £100k? He must've known how this would come off in the media. It's hassle nobody needs. Bizarre.

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#93 JaNelson38

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

No matter what was "agreed" upon beforehand, Kuchar should have ponied up.



LOL

When you go to a store and find something on sale, do you go up to the register and offer to pay full price for it?

Its quite clear you have never even participated in any kind of business transaction in your life.  If the caddie thought $5K was unacceptable, he should turn down the job.  The fact that he all of a sudden has dollar signs in his eyes because the golfer he looped for won the tournament isnt Kuchar's problem.  Its not Matt's fault that he got a great deal on a locat caddie.  That's great business on his part.

Edited by JaNelson38, 12 February 2019 - 10:52 AM.


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#94 1t2golf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM

A reminder that political discussions are prohibited.

Keep responses civil and free of politics. Move on to another topic or away from the keyboard if you are unable to do so.

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#95 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM

I’m going to check and see if Kuchar has any social media accounts so I can start calling him out as the nasty tightwad he is.

Venting here just isn’t going to cut it for me.  Maybe I’ll send steinbergs company some nasty  email too.

Here’s steinbergs contact info if anyone would like to join me in the “Pay the Tucan” campaign. Fire them some emails if you’re irritated.

https://www.steinber...com/contact-us/


.....And they say hindsight is 20/20, but he really should have probably just taken the $15,000 and signed the non-disclosure contract that certainly accompanied the offer and went on with his life.  Bringing it up publicly will now surely get him nothing.  Kuch and steiny will surely just tell him to go to hell at this point.  Everyone loses.  It’s Too bad really.  The whole thing is just sad at this point.

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#96 jaymayor

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

Kuchar 100% took advantage of the situation. It was his first win in 4 years with a fill in caddie and he probably thought he could offer way less than usual and keep most of his earnings. Even with the extra $15,000 being offered, it's a very bad look on Kuchars part. He could have been a hero in this situation. Get the win, help a local and his family out and set them up nicely for the future. As a touring pro, he should know better than anyone else that caddying at local courses isn't the most glamorous or most well paid jobs out there. No matter what was "agreed" upon beforehand, Kuchar should have ponied up.

And bravo for the caddy for turning down the extra $15,000. The guy is sticking to his principles and you have to admire him for that. Anyone who has ever thought they should deserve something should never settle for less.

What exactly does he “deserve”?  Don’t you “deserve” what you agreed to work for when you’ve satisfactorily completed the job?  

So many people saying he “deserves” 10%. Well hell, why stop there, why not 20%, or 50%... ?

I never said what he deserves. But he obviously thinks he deserves more than what he got, so why settle for what he thinks isn't enough? You even said earlier that you would have paid more in this situation, meaning you think he deserves more as well. Whatever figure that is isn't for anyone of us to decide except for Kuchar and the caddy. My opinion is that Kuchar took advantage of him.

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#97 jerebear21

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM

40 million is nothing; Vin Baker threw away 100 million.  Allen Iverson tossed away 200 million.  John Daly selling his soul behind hooters tent every week during April.
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#98 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM

 1t2golf, on 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

A reminder that political discussions are prohibited.

Keep responses civil and free of politics. Move on to another topic or away from the keyboard if you are unable to do so.


I’m going to heed that advice and move away from the keyboard for a while.
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#99 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:54 AM

If he caddied for Phil, Phil could have bought ElToucan a new house, new car and put the guys kids through college and yet people here would still be saying "Phil is so phony"...:)

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#100 OldTomMorris

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:56 AM

So he felt he was worth a 3.85% cut instead of the 0.385% he initially got.

When you succeed and you were assisted you take care of the right people, its that simple.

Neither now looks good and it was an embarrassingly cheap move at the outset.

Surely a decent manager/agent would have seen that coming.

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#101 duffer987

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:00 AM

Remember all those spectators in Phoenix a couple weeks ago heckling Kuchar at every turn and instead of "Koooooch" yelling you're a "Cheap so and so and owe some guy more money, booooo"?
Ya, me neither.
No one was exploited here. No one was abused. Some pro golfer paid a local caddie, way more money than that local caddie got paid the previous year by another pro golfer.

Edited by duffer987, 12 February 2019 - 11:02 AM.


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#102 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:00 AM

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

Kuchar 100% took advantage of the situation. It was his first win in 4 years with a fill in caddie and he probably thought he could offer way less than usual and keep most of his earnings. Even with the extra $15,000 being offered, it's a very bad look on Kuchars part. He could have been a hero in this situation. Get the win, help a local and his family out and set them up nicely for the future. As a touring pro, he should know better than anyone else that caddying at local courses isn't the most glamorous or most well paid jobs out there. No matter what was "agreed" upon beforehand, Kuchar should have ponied up.

And bravo for the caddy for turning down the extra $15,000. The guy is sticking to his principles and you have to admire him for that. Anyone who has ever thought they should deserve something should never settle for less.

What exactly does he “deserve”?  Don’t you “deserve” what you agreed to work for when you’ve satisfactorily completed the job?  

So many people saying he “deserves” 10%. Well hell, why stop there, why not 20%, or 50%... ?

I never said what he deserves. But he obviously thinks he deserves more than what he got, so why settle for what he thinks isn't enough? You even said earlier that you would have paid more in this situation, meaning you think he deserves more as well. Whatever figure that is isn't for anyone of us to decide except for Kuchar and the caddy. My opinion is that Kuchar took advantage of him.

I don’t necessarily feel he deserves more, because I don’t know exactly what he did. I would have given more because I typically tip more than average. That’s just different people.

I’ve never said anything about whether I feel what Kuchar did was right or wrong, because it’s his business. I’me very pragmatic though, if you sign on to do a job for a certain wage, that wage is what you’ve earned, or deserve. Any thing on top of that is gravy, and it’s gravy that is up to the discretion of the person offering it. If you’re worried about getting “shorted, you’d better get the details ironed out beforehand. Basic business.
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#103 jaymayor

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:01 AM

 JaNelson38, on 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

No matter what was "agreed" upon beforehand, Kuchar should have ponied up.



LOL

When you go to a store and find something on sale, do you go up to the register and offer to pay full price for it?

Its quite clear you have never even participated in any kind of business transaction in your life.  If the caddie thought $5K was unacceptable, he should turn down the job.  The fact that he all of a sudden has dollar signs in his eyes because the golfer he looped for won the tournament isnt Kuchar's problem.  Its not Matt's fault that he got a great deal on a locat caddie.  That's great business on his part.

Apples and oranges completely, not even in the same realm of thinking. Kuchar essentially won the lottery, and what do you do after you win the lottery? You go tip the person/store who sold you that ticket. This caddy helped him win that tournament. My opinion is that he took advantage of the caddy. $5000 isn't enough for what he helped him do in the bigger picture.

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#104 clp34vmp

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:02 AM

I just can't imaging winning $1.3 million and somehow feeling that $5K makes for an acceptable payment to someone with whom I spent four days of what should have been a memorable and special weekend in my career. Was Kuchar within his rights to only pay his caddie $5K? Yes, absolutely he was within his rights and does not "owe" him a cent more. Is he a complete a****!@ for doing so? Yes, absolutely.

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#105 jacobEDGE

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:03 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

No. Those of us saying we would carry for $5,000 would know that entered into a agreement. And then we would stand by it and not start whining for more.

Okay, but the agreement was a baseline of $3,000. Plus a percentage of winnings.

Had Kuchar missed the cut and gone home after Friday...this caddy wouldn't have said a single word. There would be no story, and no issue.
Had Kuchar made the cut but come in dead last? Kick Toucan an extra $500 bucks or so (which would be 3.8% of his winnings).
The additional $2,000 Kuchar threw on top of the baseline pay is an embarrassment. Hell, that $2,000 would be an embarrassment if Kuchar came in at 20th place ($93,600 winnings for #20).
For anyone to think $2,000 out of $1,290,000 is acceptable shows you how above and beyond they are with what us normal folk deal with on a day to day basis. Kuchar is extremely wealthy, and doesn't even grasp the concept of money. Would Kuchar suddenly miss his next montage payment, or have to sell one of his cars if he shelled out the $45,000 that was requested? Absolutely not. Kuchar could take $45,000 in $20 bills and use that as toilet paper for the next decade, and he wouldn't even notice.

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:


What exactly does he “deserve”?  Don’t you “deserve” what you agreed to work for when you’ve satisfactorily completed the job?  

So many people saying he “deserves” 10%. Well hell, why stop there, why not 20%, or 50%... ?

But that was never specified. The agreement was $3,000 plus a percentage of winnings. I don't think any single human being alive would ever assume that the percentage being offered would be 0.15%. Nearly a tenth of a percent. That's absolutely insane. Imagine going out to eat at a nice steakhouse. Say you have a $100 tab. Would you ever consider tipping the your waiter $0.15 off that $100 tab?


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#106 ProphetLogic

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:03 AM

I'm sure Toucan will have no trouble getting a bag next year. After all, there's nothing tour players love more than drama and controversy.

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#107 Gnomesteel

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:03 AM

This is a really bad look for Kuchar. Only reason to short him like that is greed.

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#108 Matt J

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:03 AM

Foolish not to take the $15k.

If you're going to extort money from a guy, take what he gives you.

Not a lot of contenders are showing up at Mayakoba without their guy.  Lightening doesn't strike twice.  Pride and vanity are luxuries of the rich and $15k is a lot of money foolish indeed.

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#109 Bunker2Bunker0no

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:05 AM

Is there any more of a "modern day" drama than this story. Person agrees to take a job for a dollar amount $XX, then when outside people feel that "you are really getting screewed by doing that job for $XX" and start screaming you should be upset, especially on the anonymity of social media. The person then forgets that I freely entered into this arrangement and takes on the mob's mentality of, hey I deserve more than WHAT I AGREED TO DO THE JOB FOR.

I worked in sales management for a start up company in an industry that was known for its "lucrative" pay. As a typical start up, we didn't have the ability to offer industry avg pay in the beginning, so we targeted people with sales experience but not industry experience, and offered them a "fair salary" for that level of expertise. Inevitably after a few months of being in the field and talking with their competitors about pay/bonuses etc, the grumbling started, "Im not paid enough, company X,Y, and Z are paying this much more." Remember when you said in interview that you were just looking for opportunity to get into our industry, remember when I called and offered you the job and that it was for this salary and you accepted??? Sure we lost some people after they got their 24-36 months experience but our model enabled us to grow to a mid sized player in our industry and steadily raised our pay accordingly.

Apply that to this scenario, a local club caddie filling in for an established Tour caddie is akin to a substitute teacher filling in for a teacher on week long vacation. You show up for same amount of hours and are physically doing similar tasks as the career teacher but what "value" have you brought to the kids in classroom? Same for a local caddie, you carry a heavy bag, maybe pull/replace the flag a few times but that's about it. An established Tour caddie is so much more than a bag toter and pin holder. Everything from yardage provider, knowing difference in a 1/2 club wind vs a 1,2,3 club wind, knowing when to keep up and shut up vs giving my guy a little pep talk, crowd control and on and on.

I'm sure we probably have a few Tour caddies that have eyes here, I'm sure they could weigh in and provide what their view is of the service they provide for a player vs what a club caddie filling in for a week provides. I would venture to guess that part of the reasons for paying the extra % of increased winnings isn't just about, hey we had a good week, so here is some extra cash. But, hey I know that life on road with me out here is hard on you and your family, the missed birthdays, ball games,dance recitals etc....so here is 5% bonus for our T-5 this week, or 10% of our win. Or why some top tier guys, as we hear from time to time, just pay their caddie a flat fee for the year.

Substitute teachers don't get a career teachers pay for filling in for a week, so what was fair for caddie sub? $3000 was offered and ACCEPTED, but what is fair for the unspecified % of winnings???? "More than $3k but less than $130k." Who knows where that falls in each of their minds, but playing it out in this manner is a lose/lose proposition for both of them. The caddie will get more bags at the resort but I dare say, will not ever be inside ropes again for Tour event and the subsequent pay day. Matt has taken a hit as to how "fans" perceive him(look no further than this thread), time will tell if that will cost him actual endorsement dollars.

Turning down $15,000 on principal is fine if you are a single guy...but as article says, with a common law wife and at least 1 daughter that was mentioned, "making a point" here was pretty silly and selfish.

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#110 The General

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:06 AM

- The guy doesn't speak English, can he really contribute to Kuchar's win in a meaningful way? he's not talking him out of a certain club to hit. He knows nothing about the player
- How is a totally random number of $50k acceptable to anyone? gtfo here with that opinion
- People should be saying this caddy got paid $20,000 - but only accepted $5k of it, because that's the truth.
- This caddy 1000% regrets not taking that extra $15000.
- People love spending other peoples money.
- The payment was agreed beforehand. If he would have negotiated a fee for winning, that would be different.
- HE JUST CARRIED A BAG PEOPLE.
- (I caddied for 6 years and two private clubs)
- how much $$ Kuch has made in the past or how much he's worth has ZERO bearing on this situation.
- Do wealthy people stay rich by just giving $$$ away? no
- it's really none of our business
- Mark Steingberg is a complete piece of garbage.

Edited by The General, 12 February 2019 - 11:14 AM.


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#111 SMcGavin1

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:07 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 11:00 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

Kuchar 100% took advantage of the situation. It was his first win in 4 years with a fill in caddie and he probably thought he could offer way less than usual and keep most of his earnings. Even with the extra $15,000 being offered, it's a very bad look on Kuchars part. He could have been a hero in this situation. Get the win, help a local and his family out and set them up nicely for the future. As a touring pro, he should know better than anyone else that caddying at local courses isn't the most glamorous or most well paid jobs out there. No matter what was "agreed" upon beforehand, Kuchar should have ponied up.

And bravo for the caddy for turning down the extra $15,000. The guy is sticking to his principles and you have to admire him for that. Anyone who has ever thought they should deserve something should never settle for less.

What exactly does he “deserve”?  Don’t you “deserve” what you agreed to work for when you’ve satisfactorily completed the job?  

So many people saying he “deserves” 10%. Well hell, why stop there, why not 20%, or 50%... ?

I never said what he deserves. But he obviously thinks he deserves more than what he got, so why settle for what he thinks isn't enough? You even said earlier that you would have paid more in this situation, meaning you think he deserves more as well. Whatever figure that is isn't for anyone of us to decide except for Kuchar and the caddy. My opinion is that Kuchar took advantage of him.

I don’t necessarily feel he deserves more, because I don’t know exactly what he did. I would have given more because I typically tip more than average. That’s just different people.

I’ve never said anything about whether I feel what Kuchar did was right or wrong, because it’s his business. I’me very pragmatic though, if you sign on to do a job for a certain wage, that wage is what you’ve earned, or deserve. Any thing on top of that is gravy, and it’s gravy that is up to the discretion of the person offering it. If you’re worried about getting “shorted, you’d better get the details ironed out beforehand. Basic business.

It is his business, but we also have a right to call out his business for being cheap.

As for getting the details iron out beforehand, how would you feel if you were one of Kuchar's sponsors? Here we pay good money to associate our brand with this guy and this is the kind of image he is projecting? I would want that detail sorted out beforehand, and if it wasn't it for certain would be now. I would think twice about continuing our relationship if this is what our money gets us: stiffing Mexican caddies.

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#112 DavePelz4

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:07 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 1t2golf, on 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

A reminder that political discussions are prohibited.

Keep responses civil and free of politics. Move on to another topic or away from the keyboard if you are unable to do so.


I’m going to heed that advice and move away from the keyboard for a while.

That lasted all of 7 minutes Sir.

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#113 puresurfr

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:08 AM

 tdk8180, on 12 February 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

By no means should Matt Kuchar feel pressured to pay his caddie more money.

He paid him what he thought he deserved...$5000.

I would have given the caddie 10 percent, thats like $120,000.  It would have been a feel good story, El Tucan would have been set for a nice long while.  My bank account wouldnt be hurt.  The fans would love it.  El Tucan and I would do it again next year.  Great story.

Matt Kuchar doesnt care about any of that.  And thats ok, he just shouldnt expect anyone to do anything for him (if he does expect it) or view him as someone he is not...a generous person with a big heart.  He is just a person, with a normal heart.  Totally fine , nothing wrong with that.

I think you covered all the bases there !  +1

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#114 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:10 AM

 jacobEDGE, on 12 February 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

No. Those of us saying we would carry for $5,000 would know that entered into a agreement. And then we would stand by it and not start whining for more.

Okay, but the agreement was a baseline of $3,000. Plus a percentage of winnings.

Had Kuchar missed the cut and gone home after Friday...this caddy wouldn't have said a single word. There would be no story, and no issue.
Had Kuchar made the cut but come in dead last? Kick Toucan an extra $500 bucks or so (which would be 3.8% of his winnings).
The additional $2,000 Kuchar threw on top of the baseline pay is an embarrassment. Hell, that $2,000 would be an embarrassment if Kuchar came in at 20th place ($93,600 winnings for #20).
For anyone to think $2,000 out of $1,290,000 is acceptable shows you how above and beyond they are with what us normal folk deal with on a day to day basis. Kuchar is extremely wealthy, and doesn't even grasp the concept of money. Would Kuchar suddenly miss his next montage payment, or have to sell one of his cars if he shelled out the $45,000 that was requested? Absolutely not. Kuchar could take $45,000 in $20 bills and use that as toilet paper for the next decade, and he wouldn't even notice.

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:


What exactly does he “deserve”?  Don’t you “deserve” what you agreed to work for when you’ve satisfactorily completed the job?  

So many people saying he “deserves” 10%. Well hell, why stop there, why not 20%, or 50%... ?

But that was never specified. The agreement was $3,000 plus a percentage of winnings. I don't think any single human being alive would ever assume that the percentage being offered would be 0.15%. Nearly a tenth of a percent. That's absolutely insane. Imagine going out to eat at a nice steakhouse. Say you have a $100 tab. Would you ever consider tipping the your waiter $0.15 off that $100 tab?

Jacob, similar to my reply to Jay. If you’re basing anything off a tip or gratuity, that amount is at the discretion of the person leaving it. If you want to make sure it’s going to be certain amount you have to iron out the details up front. I really don’t think comparing percentages on a $100 tab as opposed to a $1.3 million one is apples to apples.

Was Kuchar cheap or not, no my place to say. Again, my contention all along has been it’s noone else’s business. If what’s his name had never gotten involved, any bets the caddie would still be happy with what he received?  Too many people these days stick8mg their nose in where it doesn’t belong.
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#115 MtlJeff

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:10 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 1t2golf, on 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

A reminder that political discussions are prohibited.

Keep responses civil and free of politics. Move on to another topic or away from the keyboard if you are unable to do so.


I’m going to heed that advice and move away from the keyboard for a while.

I'll stay out of this too. I will say in all seriousness though that it gets hard to distinguish between what is a political comment and what isn't in this thread. I understand that use of political terms is wrong (and I shouldn't have done that) but I would say that many posts in this thread will have fairly overt political undertones.

Anyway, my bad and I'll get outta here

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#116 jacobEDGE

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:10 AM

 JaNelson38, on 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:


LOL

When you go to a store and find something on sale, do you go up to the register and offer to pay full price for it?

Its quite clear you have never even participated in any kind of business transaction in your life.  If the caddie thought $5K was unacceptable, he should turn down the job.  The fact that he all of a sudden has dollar signs in his eyes because the golfer he looped for won the tournament isnt Kuchar's problem.  Its not Matt's fault that he got a great deal on a locat caddie.  That's great business on his part.

You're a real piece of work, aren't you?

You also have no idea what you're talking about. You cannot compare a service that requires a tip to a set price on a good. Goods (or a physical product) is not the same as a service. That's something most middle school children can comprehend.

 duffer987, on 12 February 2019 - 11:00 AM, said:

Remember all those spectators in Phoenix a couple weeks ago heckling Kuchar at every turn and instead of "Koooooch" yelling you're a "Cheap so and so and owe some guy more money, booooo"?
Ya, me neither.
No one was exploited here. No one was abused. Some pro golfer paid a local caddie, way more money than that local caddie got paid the previous year by another pro golfer.

This is the most "whataboutism" I've ever seen.

First off, I'm sure a vast majority of spectators in Phoenix had no idea about any of this. I had never heard of anything until reading a post on Reddit this morning. Had I been at the WM Open, I wouldn't have boo'd him, because I had never heard of this story and scandal.

Second, you can't honestly believe the WM Open is a solid event to hold spectators at such standards? That's the Coachella of Golf. More people are there from the local college than actual golf fans. More people are there to drink and party instead of watching golf.

You think you made some profound point with your comment, when you actually just strung some words together to form a bunch of nonsense.

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#117 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:13 AM

 SMcGavin1, on 12 February 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 11:00 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 jaymayor, on 12 February 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

Kuchar 100% took advantage of the situation. It was his first win in 4 years with a fill in caddie and he probably thought he could offer way less than usual and keep most of his earnings. Even with the extra $15,000 being offered, it's a very bad look on Kuchars part. He could have been a hero in this situation. Get the win, help a local and his family out and set them up nicely for the future. As a touring pro, he should know better than anyone else that caddying at local courses isn't the most glamorous or most well paid jobs out there. No matter what was "agreed" upon beforehand, Kuchar should have ponied up.

And bravo for the caddy for turning down the extra $15,000. The guy is sticking to his principles and you have to admire him for that. Anyone who has ever thought they should deserve something should never settle for less.

What exactly does he “deserve”?  Don’t you “deserve” what you agreed to work for when you’ve satisfactorily completed the job?  

So many people saying he “deserves” 10%. Well hell, why stop there, why not 20%, or 50%... ?

I never said what he deserves. But he obviously thinks he deserves more than what he got, so why settle for what he thinks isn't enough? You even said earlier that you would have paid more in this situation, meaning you think he deserves more as well. Whatever figure that is isn't for anyone of us to decide except for Kuchar and the caddy. My opinion is that Kuchar took advantage of him.

I don’t necessarily feel he deserves more, because I don’t know exactly what he did. I would have given more because I typically tip more than average. That’s just different people.

I’ve never said anything about whether I feel what Kuchar did was right or wrong, because it’s his business. I’me very pragmatic though, if you sign on to do a job for a certain wage, that wage is what you’ve earned, or deserve. Any thing on top of that is gravy, and it’s gravy that is up to the discretion of the person offering it. If you’re worried about getting “shorted, you’d better get the details ironed out beforehand. Basic business.

It is his business, but we also have a right to call out his business for being cheap.

As for getting the details iron out beforehand, how would you feel if you were one of Kuchar's sponsors? Here we pay good money to associate our brand with this guy and this is the kind of image he is projecting? I would want that detail sorted out beforehand, and if it wasn't it for certain would be now. I would think twice about continuing our relationship if this is what our money gets us: stiffing Mexican caddies.

Did you hear the fans at Phoenix?  The sponsors heard that a lot more than they’re hearing this thread. I’ll bet you Skechers doesn’t suddenly drop him.
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#118 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:14 AM



And I’ll tell you  how this whole pathetic thing got started.....

How much cash did Kuchar actually have on him or have access to in Mexico??   I’d be willing to bet that he gave Tucan everything he had at the moment.  I’m also betting Tucan didn’t want a personal check.

No one  is cruising around Mexico with a giant wad of cash other than the Drug lords.....and maybe Phil....LOL!!  

There’s a reason he got paid in a lot of small bills in a thick envelope.  Kuch certainly cleaned out the ATM machine at the resort and the front desk.

The resorts deliberately keep very limited cash on hand to avoid getting jacked.  Most things are on credit card. What do you think the odds are that Tucan was SUPPOSED to get more money later via a wire transfer and things somehow went terribly sideways?


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#119 jacobEDGE

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:14 AM

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:


Jacob, similar to my reply to Jay. If you’re basing anything off a tip or gratuity, that amount is at the discretion of the person leaving it. If you want to make sure it’s going to be certain amount you have to iron out the details up front. I really don’t think comparing percentages on a $100 tab as opposed to a $1.3 million one is apples to apples.

And when that information is public knowledge, or shared with the public, we (as the public) have every right to comment about it. If my friend left less than 1% tip on our dinner bill, I'd absolutely call them out on it.

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Was Kuchar cheap or not, no my place to say. Again, my contention all along has been it’s noone else’s business. If what’s his name had never gotten involved, any bets the caddie would still be happy with what he received?  Too many people these days stick8mg their nose in where it doesn’t belong.

I mean, I feel like anyone on Earth would agree that a 0.15% tip is cheap. Regardless of the numbers involved. Regardless of the job involved. Regardless of the services rendered. If you tip less than a single percent, that's objectively cheap.

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#120 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:14 AM

 DavePelz4, on 12 February 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

 deadsolid...shank, on 12 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 1t2golf, on 12 February 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

A reminder that political discussions are prohibited.

Keep responses civil and free of politics. Move on to another topic or away from the keyboard if you are unable to do so.


I’m going to heed that advice and move away from the keyboard for a while.

That lasted all of 7 minutes Sir.

I’m trying, I really am.

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