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El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)


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#31 Christen_The_Sloop

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:00 AM

How's Matt feeling about defending this title? Think he's going to come down with something the week of the event.

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#32 CCTxGolf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:00 AM

Decline 15k in a nearly third world country because of pride. Gee golly thatís f****** stupid. Then publicly address the payment which will no doubt cause him trouble with Mexican authorities and his future as a caddie. Even f****** dumber.
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#33 FredWomble

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:02 AM

No winners here. But for Tucan to say he was underpaid then decline 3x the original payment that he apparently agreed to before the tourney? Dunno. If he feels so strongly now, and is willing to say so publicly he should state a dollar amount. While I agree $5k was quite low given the outcome, this approach doesn't endear Tucan. Expect Kuchar won't play the tournament again, and Tucan will be lucky to pick up a bag.
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#34 SMcGavin1

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:04 AM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 12 February 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

"My question is this, if El Toucan was white, what would Kuchar have given him?"

$5,000.  

Sure? So he's just an all-time cheapskate?

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#35 Bourni1

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:04 AM

I get that they had agreed on a fixed rate and that a substitute caddy does not put in all the work a regular caddy actually does (including the weekly risk of missing cuts).  However, to win such a large check (regardless of how much he has made in the past, which to me is irrelevant) and basically tip the guy a few thousand dollars does not look good.  I think the 50K that the caddy expected would have been very fair.


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#36 TMfan54

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:05 AM

Yikes. My opinion is that an agreement was made with a local caddie to make over 7x his usual daily take. He does the job. His guy wins. He get almost double what was agreed as a bonus.

He stated that his biggest contribution was telling Matt to "calm down." That does not merit a bonus typical to a caddie that works full time with Matt, gives club suggestions, etc. This was a man carrying his bag and maybe giving some local course knowledge.

Edited by TMfan54, 12 February 2019 - 09:06 AM.

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#37 TheLarch

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:06 AM

Two things that will be interesting.
Sergio going back to Bethpage.
Kuchar going back to Mayakoba.
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#38 Under2hours

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:10 AM

From the article......

Ortiz said that Kuchar said at the start of the tournament that he would be paid $3,000 for the week, plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings.



$2,000/1,296,000 = .15%  I guess that is "unspecified"

This whole thing started on or about January 12th.  Kuchar was insincere (though technically not lying) when he chuckled & said "more then $3,000, less then $130,000" when asked what he paid him.  El Toucan only wrote to Steinberg on the 24th, so as I said in the previous thread Kuch could have reached out and made it right well before then.

To me what I would like to know is what did Sergio pay his replacement caddy when he won?

Again though we see the capitalists explaining to us "SJW's" (a phrase never used to describe me) that we should myob & applauding Matt for his business acumen and negotiating skills.....

Edited by Under2hours, 12 February 2019 - 09:13 AM.


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#39 ClarkGrswld4

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:12 AM

View Postpbr2121, on 12 February 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

If there was an unspecified bonus amount left to Kuchar's discretion and he decided on $2k out of $1.3mm then it's pretty hard not to see him as cheap. Was it standard and reasonable? Maybe but still pretty cheap and makes me think Mr. Smiles is

these are my thoughts. Kuchar didn't do anything "wrong" per se but it is hard for me to understand that he had a real thought process and decided another $2K was the appropriate amount.

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#40 No Catchy Nickname

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:13 AM

Not sure I follow Ortz's logic: he wants more, specifically $50,000, but rejected an extra $15,000 (which would bring what he made up to $20,000).

However, this is curious:

Ortiz said that Kuchar said at the start of the tournament that he would be paid $3,000 for the week, plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings.

If this is true (and it's an IF), then 0.15% of the winnings is a tad on the low side.

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#41 ebrasmus21

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:17 AM

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#42 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:21 AM

View PostClarkGrswld4, on 12 February 2019 - 09:12 AM, said:

View Postpbr2121, on 12 February 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

If there was an unspecified bonus amount left to Kuchar's discretion and he decided on $2k out of $1.3mm then it's pretty hard not to see him as cheap. Was it standard and reasonable? Maybe but still pretty cheap and makes me think Mr. Smiles is

these are my thoughts. Kuchar didn't do anything "wrong" per se but it is hard for me to understand that he had a real thought process and decided another $2K was the appropriate amount.
I agree. But something tells me that if Kuch gave him $15K the resulting complaints would still be the same.

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#43 pheenomz4774

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:22 AM

Well now we all know what happens when you deal with people you don't know personally for a professional service using the words "unspecified percentage." I feel bad for El Tucan only in that he probably assumed that it would be more than $2,000, especially for a win. However that's where I stop feeling bad for him. If he was in a position where he thought it was ok to accept THAT specific deal before the tournament started, the results of the tournament should not have changed his attitude towards payment.

He either should have thought about the circumstances had Kuchar won and asked for a specific percentage based on that, or asked for a large sum upfront no matter the results.

Now, the story coming out makes Kuchar look cheap, but that's not illegal, and it's not immoral to be a cheap person. This situation isn't about what somebody deserves, but what they negotiated, and when you leave the final percentage in the hands of the payer, you can get burned a bit. Lessons learned all the way around I think.
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#44 Frostfield

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:24 AM

Kuchar is cheap and El Toucan is an idiot for rejecting the extra $15k

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#45 bscinstnct

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:26 AM

"Ortiz said the envelope contained $100s, $50s, $20s and $5s that it added up to exactly $5,000. He counted it after Kuchar had handed it to him and left."

"$5s", lol.


Edited by bscinstnct, 12 February 2019 - 09:26 AM.


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#46 nic19

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:28 AM

Kuchar is cheap. Steinberg a p***k. This money ( standard practice in tour I m led to believe) would be absolutely life changing. Kuchar said this guy helped him a lot. If a tour caddy had stepped in for the tournament there would be no question that he would pay that money.

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#47 DavePelz4

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:29 AM

He just needs to go back to hawking Fruit Loops and the world will be in a better place.

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#48 ChillyDipper

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:30 AM

To the people in this thread who think El Tucan is wrong:

He didn't get paid the specified contract value because there was no specified contract value, it was 3k + a percentage of winnings. It says so right there in the article.  In my opinion, the 50k number is about right, which represents 3.8% of the total winnings, meaning that the caddie agrees that he shouldn't be paid as much as a regular tour caddie for a win.  So why are we arguing that he thinks he should?
Also, why did El Tucan wait to the 24th to come out publicly?  Well, perhaps he was having back-channel conversations or waiting for Kuch to extend an offer.  When a reasonable one didn't come, he went public.
Also, why did he not just take the 15k extra?  Well, I'll put the question to the supreme business negotiators in this thread:  Is it generally seen as good business practice to accept the first offer?  If so, I have some land in Florida to sell you.

I hate to say it, but I do feel that there are some racial undertones to some of the responses in this thread.  Give the guy a fair shake, and put yourself in his shoes.  If you would do what he did for less money, good for you, but would you have got Kuchar to the win?  Doubt it.
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#49 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:32 AM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 12 February 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

View PostSwooshLT, on 12 February 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

Sorry caddies on winning bags get 10% .....common practice.....why the re-write now? Poor little non-american gets what I give him?

This is untrue.

And he isn’t a “tour” caddie. He carried the bag, offered a little extra support, and got paid a little extra for that extra support.

He won’t have a bag next year.

Another case of people meddling in affairs that are of no concern to them and making it even worse.
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#50 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:33 AM

According to Kuchar this is a non story. Not so sure about that, Matt. Kuchar is cheap and this is a bad look.

Edited by WidespreadPanic, 12 February 2019 - 09:34 AM.

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#51 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:36 AM

Here my formula for what El Tucan might have been paid.  If Standard tour caddie pay would be ~10% for a win, kuchars regular bagman would have been paid $126K. Since a resort looper probably did about 15% of the work that a regular caddie would do leading up to and during the tournament week and ZERO expenses, that's $19k. The complaining still would be the same.

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 12 February 2019 - 09:38 AM.


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#52 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:39 AM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 12 February 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

Here my formula for what El Tucan might have been paid.  If Standard tour caddie pay would be ~10% for a win, kuchars regular bagman would have been paid $126K. Since a resort looper probably did about 15% of the work that a regular caddie would do leading up to and during the tournament week, that's $19k. The complaining still would be the same.

That involves a lot of common sense......so the “entitlement community” will think its grossly unfair. Why should you have to earn anything?
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#53 Joker91

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:42 AM

Faux controversy

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#54 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:42 AM

Wonder what his regular caddie would have thought if Kuchar had paid the standard winner’s rate, “damn, I have to cover all my travel expenses, and do a hell of a lot more, maybe I’m underpaid too”.
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#55 Man_O_War

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:43 AM

man...Kuchar is a terrible guy.. why even stiff a small time caddie with all the dosh in his stash...yes it is his own money but still..that mentality of a tightwad is sickening to me.  You made 1.3 million or some obscene amount of money with this guy on your bag for 4 days with millions more stashed away... heck JD donated 30K in 1991 after winning much less. sickening.

to think i was pulling for him against Speith in at the Open...glad Speith won..

Edited by Man_O_War, 12 February 2019 - 09:44 AM.

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#56 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:43 AM

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 12 February 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

According to Kuchar this is a non story. Not so sure about that, Matt. Kuchar is cheap and this is a bad look.

Completely agree.  A SUBSTANTIAL  Bonus based on performance and total winnngs is absolutely 100% expected.  Fill in caddie or not.

A $5,000 total payment after a win is so vile, so cheap, so disgusting, that I will never view Kuchar the same way again.

Grotesque.  


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#57 SwooshLT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:50 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 12 February 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 12 February 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

According to Kuchar this is a non story. Not so sure about that, Matt. Kuchar is cheap and this is a bad look.

Completely agree.  A SUBSTANTIAL  Bonus based on performance and total winnngs is absolutely 100% expected.  Fill in caddie or not.

A $5,000 total payment after a win is so vile, so cheap, so disgusting, that I will never view Kuchar the same way again.

Grotesque.  


This times a thousand.....

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#58 TreyWingbat

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:51 AM

Maybe he just wants a pair of new Skechers Go Golf shoes too?
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#59 Long Shot

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:57 AM

Declining 15k is called the principal.  Kuchar is a cheap man, good for the caddie.  And all of you saying you would caddie for 5k and don't know what he's mad about are probably the some of the same people who are always low balling people on BST who would likely cry about it too after the fact.

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#60 slide13

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:57 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 12 February 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 12 February 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

According to Kuchar this is a non story. Not so sure about that, Matt. Kuchar is cheap and this is a bad look.

Completely agree.  A SUBSTANTIAL  Bonus based on performance and total winnngs is absolutely 100% expected.  Fill in caddie or not.

A $5,000 total payment after a win is so vile, so cheap, so disgusting, that I will never view Kuchar the same way again.

Grotesque.  

Agreed.  That's super cheap.  I get the argument that it's not the same as a full time caddie and I think a fair number should have been discussed after the fact to make sure everyone was happy.  Personally, if I'd have just won almost 1.3mil I'd give up 10% no question, but that easy to say when it's not really my money.  Still, $50k is barely a dent in that.  Kuchar used to be one of those golfers I could get behind, seemed like a nice guy.  Guess not.

Minimal: TEE EX10 Beta 13 / Miura CB57 4/6/8/P / Miura 55C / Byron DH89 / Mackenzie

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