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Game Improvement vs Players Irons


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#1 bmeGT

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:38 PM

  • Two year player
  • Practice once/twice per week, play once per week.
  • Average score: ~100
  • Handicap: ~26.
I began playing golf two years ago. After a few lessons, I was advised to go get fit for irons, so last April I got fit for irons and hit everything from SGI's to blades. During the session, I made a comment to the fitter that I liked the look of the slim top line the Rogue Pro's although I couldn't strike them very well. Others I tried weren't as appealing to my eye, but they were easier to hit and I seemed to have better results (though I didn't comment on them). To my surprise, it was the Rogue Pro's that were recommended to me at end of the session. It struck me as odd to recommend players irons to a 25+ handicap, but I ignored my concerns and decided to trust the process and his opinion. I ended up selling my Taylormade RSI 1 irons and purchasing the Rogue Pro's a week later. To match my existing wedge lofts, he advised me to weaken each iron across the board.

After a few rounds, I realized I had lost a clubs worth of distance due to the loft differences even on flush hits, but I enjoyed the sound and feel much more than my previous clubs. To let you know where I'm at, if I swing a 7i ten times, I'll hit it flush three times. Six are slight toe/heel misses and one is probably a chunk. Because the Rogue Pro's aren't as forgiving and because center strikes aren't exactly common, I am losing even more distance than I had previously accepted.

I am wondering if I need to play a more forgiving set. At this point in my game I feel like my lack of distance is hindering my ability to improve. What are your thoughts? Do you see handicap as a determining factor of what irons you select? I know clubs aren't the end all-fix all, but sometimes I worry I'm making the game more difficult than it needs to be.

Edited by bmeGT, 11 February 2019 - 03:12 PM.


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#2 jjfcpa

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:08 PM

Over time, you might grow into the Rogue Pro's, but it sounds like you don't have enough confidence to be playing these clubs.  I believe that every time you pull a club out of the bag, you have to feel that you are going to flush it.  You may not, but you have to believe that you can.  It doesn't sound like you have that kind of confidence with these clubs and I would look for something more appropriate to your abilities and inspire your confidence.  

I made a similar decision recently because I didn't have the same confidence with the long irons that I did with the short irons.  I felt like I needed to be able to rely on my longs irons more and made a change to a more forgiving set of clubs.  Although I've only had a chance to hit them indoors (due to the weather), I feel much more confident when pulling out a long iron.  I'm looking forward to lower scores and better results when I get out on the course.

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#3 SoloShot84

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:09 PM

take more lessons. Build repeatable swing. it is Indian, not arrow. I don't think Rogue Pro is THAT demanding clubs.

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#4 jvincent

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:08 PM

The Rogue Pro is actually going to be as forgiving as any other GI out there based on how it is built.

I didn't look up the lofts of the RS1 vs the Rogues but my guess is the loss of distance is related to that.

Here's a thought for you to consider. Most high handicappers scoring suffers not from slightly off center hits, but from big misses due to swing path/face angle and hitting it fat/thin. I've been a single digit for quite a few years now and when I made a concerted effort to get there (I was a 25) I was playing a set of very blade like cavity backs.

Playing those irons gave me the feedback I needed to be able to fix my swing. When you know you've hit one a little thin or off-center it's good feedback.

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#5 DFDLT

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:20 PM

I see where you are coming from.  I use to golf somewhat routinely and have only made a few outings over the last 5 years.  Clubs are old, outdated, and donít fit me.  Took the 50% off at Club Champion just to put me in the ballpark of where I needed to be on clubs to get back into it.  Hit the 790ís well but more importantly have a good idea of the weight, flex, and profile of shafts I should be in.  Now do I get GI clubs and regret not getting more of a players iron like an i210 or do I get a GI club and maybe wish I would have gotten the other.  I feel ya.


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#6 Storms

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:31 AM

I feel like you'll grow into them. The more you focus on improving your game, the quicker that'll happen. As other have said, rouge pros aren't that demanding in the grand scheme of things. It's not like you're hitting Hogan blades, and tinkering with your clubs too much can often do more harm than good though we hate to admit that here lol
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#7 ronnbee

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:21 AM

View Postjjfcpa, on 11 February 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

Over time, you might grow into the Rogue Pro's, but it sounds like you don't have enough confidence to be playing these clubs.  I believe that every time you pull a club out of the bag, you have to feel that you are going to flush it.  You may not, but you have to believe that you can.  It doesn't sound like you have that kind of confidence with these clubs and I would look for something more appropriate to your abilities and inspire your confidence.  

I made a similar decision recently because I didn't have the same confidence with the long irons that I did with the short irons.  I felt like I needed to be able to rely on my longs irons more and made a change to a more forgiving set of clubs.  Although I've only had a chance to hit them indoors (due to the weather), I feel much more confident when pulling out a long iron.  I'm looking forward to lower scores and better results when I get out on the course.
what do you have now? you dumped rogue x and went to ping-now what do you play ?

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#8 agolf1

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:47 AM

View PostbmeGT, on 11 February 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

  • Two year player
  • Practice once/twice per week, play once per week.
  • Average score: ~100
  • Handicap: ~26.
I began playing golf two years ago. After a few lessons, I was advised to go get fit for irons, so last April I got fit for irons and hit everything from SGI's to blades. During the session, I made a comment to the fitter that I liked the look of the slim top line the Rogue Pro's although I couldn't strike them very well. Others I tried weren't as appealing to my eye, but they were easier to hit and I seemed to have better results (though I didn't comment on them). To my surprise, it was the Rogue Pro's that were recommended to me at end of the session. It struck me as odd to recommend players irons to a 25+ handicap, but I ignored my concerns and decided to trust the process and his opinion. I ended up selling my Taylormade RSI 1 irons and purchasing the Rogue Pro's a week later. To match my existing wedge lofts, he advised me to weaken each iron across the board.

After a few rounds, I realized I had lost a clubs worth of distance due to the loft differences even on flush hits, but I enjoyed the sound and feel much more than my previous clubs. To let you know where I'm at, if I swing a 7i ten times, I'll hit it flush three times. Six are slight toe/heel misses and one is probably a chunk. Because the Rogue Pro's aren't as forgiving and because center strikes aren't exactly common, I am losing even more distance than I had previously accepted.

I am wondering if I need to play a more forgiving set. At this point in my game I feel like my lack of distance is hindering my ability to improve. What are your thoughts? Do you see handicap as a determining factor of what irons you select? I know clubs aren't the end all-fix all, but sometimes I worry I'm making the game more difficult than it needs to be.
How much did the fitter weaken the lofts of the Rouge Pros?  Based on the standard specs, the Rogue Pros and RSI 1 seem to be within 1* of each other with the Rogue Pros actually being slightly weaker.  If he weakened them two degrees from the standard specs, you could be getting close to where you are losing a full club of distance vs. the RSI 1s.

Second, the Rogue Pros seem to have a bit less offset than the RSI 1s.  If he weakened the lofts, the Rogue Pros will have even less offset.  Most people around here hate offset, but without know anything else about your swing just based on your scores / contact you describe I'd say that offset probably isn't a bad thing (this is not saying you can't learn to hit a club with less offset).

Personally, I would recommend an easier to hit set of irons, but I am someone that plays "shovels" relative to a lot of people of comparative ability.  There is a large debate as to how much the clubhead design helps mishits - you'll have to decide what you think the truth is here.

I do agree that dedication to practice is more important than anything related to the clubs in how you will improve.  However, if you've had the Rogue Pros for almost a year now, are practicing consistently, but aren't seeing any improvements there may be something about these irons that just aren't a good fit for you.

Edited by agolf1, 12 February 2019 - 05:49 AM.

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#9 gvogel

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:43 AM

View PostbmeGT, on 11 February 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

  • Two year player
  • Practice once/twice per week, play once per week.
  • Average score: ~100
  • Handicap: ~26.
I began playing golf two years ago. After a few lessons, I was advised to go get fit for irons, so last April I got fit for irons and hit everything from SGI's to blades. During the session, I made a comment to the fitter that I liked the look of the slim top line the Rogue Pro's although I couldn't strike them very well. Others I tried weren't as appealing to my eye, but they were easier to hit and I seemed to have better results (though I didn't comment on them). To my surprise, it was the Rogue Pro's that were recommended to me at end of the session. It struck me as odd to recommend players irons to a 25+ handicap, but I ignored my concerns and decided to trust the process and his opinion. I ended up selling my Taylormade RSI 1 irons and purchasing the Rogue Pro's a week later. To match my existing wedge lofts, he advised me to weaken each iron across the board.

After a few rounds, I realized I had lost a clubs worth of distance due to the loft differences even on flush hits, but I enjoyed the sound and feel much more than my previous clubs. To let you know where I'm at, if I swing a 7i ten times, I'll hit it flush three times. Six are slight toe/heel misses and one is probably a chunk. Because the Rogue Pro's aren't as forgiving and because center strikes aren't exactly common, I am losing even more distance than I had previously accepted.

I am wondering if I need to play a more forgiving set. At this point in my game I feel like my lack of distance is hindering my ability to improve. What are your thoughts? Do you see handicap as a determining factor of what irons you select? I know clubs aren't the end all-fix all, but sometimes I worry I'm making the game more difficult than it needs to be.

How far do you hit your 7-iron?  How far do you hit your driver?

If you are a very strong player, I would say stick with the Rogue Pros for another year.  If you are like me (7-iron 145), a game improvement iron would be helpful.
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#10 Wriggles

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:56 AM

I'm somewhere around a 15 hcp.  I'm also 66 years old.

Back in 2010, I bought a set of Callaway 09  forged irons on a whim, extra stiff Rifle shafts.  Got them at a good price, mailorder, and worried about how foolish I was for purchasing "players" irons.  (I believe Mickelson and Grahame McDowell played them.)

Got them and hit a few balls around Christmas that year.  In short, have found those irons to be the best I've ever played.

Bought a new set of Callaway hot2 irons on clearance, back in late 2017.  Very good clubs, supposed to be game improvement.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick the x forged.

I really think the different categories, players, GI, SGI, etc. is a lot of bunk.

Playing exclusively with the same clubs will result in optimum performance.  Something the manufacturers don't want anyone to know.


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#11 Itsjustagame

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:13 AM

Golf is about confidence. Play whatever makes you confident.
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#12 SammyShaf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:15 AM

If you are suffeeing distance loss, focus on taking one more club and 3/4 swing like you are playing in British Open conditions.  I find it harder to mishit when smoothing out shots.
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#13 lawsonman

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:29 AM

View PostWriggles, on 12 February 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

I'm somewhere around a 15 hcp.  I'm also 66 years old.

Back in 2010, I bought a set of Callaway 09  forged irons on a whim, extra stiff Rifle shafts.  Got them at a good price, mailorder, and worried about how foolish I was for purchasing "players" irons.  (I believe Mickelson and Grahame McDowell played them.)

Got them and hit a few balls around Christmas that year.  In short, have found those irons to be the best I've ever played.

Bought a new set of Callaway hot2 irons on clearance, back in late 2017.  Very good clubs, supposed to be game improvement.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick the x forged.

I really think the different categories, players, GI, SGI, etc. is a lot of bunk.

Playing exclusively with the same clubs will result in optimum performance.  Something the manufacturers don't want anyone to know.

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#14 Payton1020

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:50 AM

View Postlawsonman, on 12 February 2019 - 07:29 AM, said:

View PostWriggles, on 12 February 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:



I really think the different categories, players, GI, SGI, etc. is a lot of bunk.


Post of the year!

THESE^^^^ARE a lot of bunk.

OP, correct shaft and lie angles will help with center contact, along with a more repeatable/consistent swing.
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#15 Golf64

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:54 AM

OP, go get fit for some G410s or F9s and thank me later. ;)

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#16 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:57 AM

View Postjjfcpa, on 11 February 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

Over time, you might grow into the Rogue Pro's, but it sounds like you don't have enough confidence to be playing these clubs.  I believe that every time you pull a club out of the bag, you have to feel that you are going to flush it.  You may not, but you have to believe that you can.  It doesn't sound like you have that kind of confidence with these clubs and I would look for something more appropriate to your abilities and inspire your confidence.  

I made a similar decision recently because I didn't have the same confidence with the long irons that I did with the short irons.  I felt like I needed to be able to rely on my longs irons more and made a change to a more forgiving set of clubs.  Although I've only had a chance to hit them indoors (due to the weather), I feel much more confident when pulling out a long iron.  I'm looking forward to lower scores and better results when I get out on the course.

Thanks for the tips. I had previously thought of purchasing a 5, 6, and 7i in the Rogue irons to help with that extra bit of forgiveness. I'll take another look at that, thanks!

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#17 lawsonman

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:58 AM

View PostPayton1020, on 12 February 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 12 February 2019 - 07:29 AM, said:

View PostWriggles, on 12 February 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

I really think the different categories, players, GI, SGI, etc. is a lot of bunk.


Post of the year!

THESE^^^^ARE a lot of bunk.

OP, correct shaft and lie angles will help with center contact, along with a more repeatable/consistent swing.

After over 30 years of playing everything, I'll stick with my opinion. A repeatable /consistent swing doesn't help a bit if it's still a bad swing. A miss is a miss. My G25's produce just as bad of shots as my Iblades.
Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#18 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:00 AM

View Postjvincent, on 11 February 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:

Playing those irons gave me the feedback I needed to be able to fix my swing. When you know you've hit one a little thin or off-center it's good feedback.

That's one of the things I do enjoy is the feedback I receive on misses. With the RSI 1s, I swung and paid attention to results. With the new irons, upon impact, I can immediately tell if it was a heel/toe miss.

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#19 chinaski

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:00 AM

Spend your money on lessons and practice more with Driver and wedges. Don't waste time hitting 7 irons at the range.

Also you should probably get new wedges or bend them instead of the irons.

Edited by chinaski, 12 February 2019 - 08:03 AM.

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#20 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:04 AM

Quote

How much did the fitter weaken the lofts of the Rouge Pros?  Based on the standard specs, the Rogue Pros and RSI 1 seem to be within 1* of each other with the Rogue Pros actually being slightly weaker.  If he weakened them two degrees from the standard specs, you could be getting close to where you are losing a full club of distance vs. the RSI 1s.

Second, the Rogue Pros seem to have a bit less offset than the RSI 1s.  If he weakened the lofts, the Rogue Pros will have even less offset.  Most people around here hate offset, but without know anything else about your swing just based on your scores / contact you describe I'd say that offset probably isn't a bad thing (this is not saying you can't learn to hit a club with less offset).

Personally, I would recommend an easier to hit set of irons, but I am someone that plays "shovels" relative to a lot of people of comparative ability.  There is a large debate as to how much the clubhead design helps mishits - you'll have to decide what you think the truth is here.

I do agree that dedication to practice is more important than anything related to the clubs in how you will improve.  However, if you've had the Rogue Pros for almost a year now, are practicing consistently, but aren't seeing any improvements there may be something about these irons that just aren't a good fit for you.

He weakened the irons 1* on every club. My trust is a bit shaken now, though. If a set of irons I was fit for in a 3 hour session aren't right for me, what irons ARE?!?

Edited by bmeGT, 12 February 2019 - 08:24 AM.


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#21 Greenstealth

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:06 AM

What you are currently experiencing are growing pains. If the club suits your eye, stick with it. Keep working on the swing, get your distances dialed in and enjoy the ride.

Edited by Greenstealth, 12 February 2019 - 08:06 AM.


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#22 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:06 AM

Quote


How far do you hit your 7-iron?  How far do you hit your driver?

If you are a very strong player, I would say stick with the Rogue Pros for another year.  If you are like me (7-iron 145), a game improvement iron would be helpful.

With my RSI 1s I hit my 7 around 150. With the RP on flush hits I'll get 145. On misses I'm more in the 130-135 range, which is just discouraging. I know golf isn't about distance but knowing you can and should get more out of a club gets you down when you don't.

I hit my driver 200 yards. 10.5*

Edited by bmeGT, 12 February 2019 - 08:07 AM.


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#23 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:10 AM

View PostGolf64, on 12 February 2019 - 07:54 AM, said:

OP, go get fit for some G410s or F9s and thank me later. ;)

Don't get that bug in my head!

But in all seriousness, I tried to even avoid thinking of purchasing new clubs because I knew it would grow into an idea that would overtake me and force me to commit! Golf is my wallets enemy.

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#24 agolf1

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:11 AM

View PostbmeGT, on 12 February 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

Quote

How much did the fitter weaken the lofts of the Rouge Pros?  Based on the standard specs, the Rogue Pros and RSI 1 seem to be within 1* of each other with the Rogue Pros actually being slightly weaker.  If he weakened them two degrees from the standard specs, you could be getting close to where you are losing a full club of distance vs. the RSI 1s.

Second, the Rogue Pros seem to have a bit less offset than the RSI 1s.  If he weakened the lofts, the Rogue Pros will have even less offset.  Most people around here hate offset, but without know anything else about your swing just based on your scores / contact you describe I'd say that offset probably isn't a bad thing (this is not saying you can't learn to hit a club with less offset).

Personally, I would recommend an easier to hit set of irons, but I am someone that plays "shovels" relative to a lot of people of comparative ability.  There is a large debate as to how much the clubhead design helps mishits - you'll have to decide what you think the truth is here.

I do agree that dedication to practice is more important than anything related to the clubs in how you will improve.  However, if you've had the Rogue Pros for almost a year now, are practicing consistently, but aren't seeing any improvements there may be something about these irons that just aren't a good fit for you.

He weakened the irons 1* on every club. My trust is a bit shaken now, though. If a set of irons I was fit for in a 3 hour session, what irons ARE good for me?!?
Do you hit the Rogue Pros any better or worse than the RSI 1s?  To clarify, I don't mean distance here but the % of times out of 10 that you catch one flush.

I can't comment on how the club looks / feels for you and how that translates into confidence, but trying to get at whether some features (looks aside) are producing better shots or not.

Edited by agolf1, 12 February 2019 - 08:12 AM.

Titleist 910 D2 11.25*, Diamana Ilima R-Flex (tipped 1')
Callaway X Hot Pro 19* Fairway, Project X Velocity 6.0
TaylorMade Raylor 22*, Raylor RE*AX S-Flex
TaylorMade Rescue 25*, Aldila RE*AX S-Flex
Ping G25 6-PW (28*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter

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#25 sdandrea

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:15 AM

Once you realize that you can still hit REALLY BAD SHOTS with the largest SGI shovel available,  you'll know the truth. GI and SGI clubs may forgive you a little more on the mis-hits, but if you are in the correct length, loft, lie and shaft for MOST of your swings, you'll play well when your swing is on, and badly when it isn't, no matter which category club you have.

Edited by sdandrea, 12 February 2019 - 04:02 PM.

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#26 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:33 AM

Quote

Do you hit the Rogue Pros any better or worse than the RSI 1s?  To clarify, I don't mean distance here but the % of times out of 10 that you catch one flush.

I can't comment on how the club looks / feels for you and how that translates into confidence, but trying to get at whether some features (looks aside) are producing better shots or not.

That's hard to say because the RSI's were the very first clubs I owned. I can guarantee you my swing has gotten better with RPs, but that's simply due to increased practice time. Trajectory and distance were probably better with the previous clubs because of the forgiveness and GI aspect.

If only there was an iron that looked like the Rogue Pro but played like a Big Bertha...

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#27 agolf1

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:38 AM

View PostbmeGT, on 12 February 2019 - 08:33 AM, said:

Quote

Do you hit the Rogue Pros any better or worse than the RSI 1s?  To clarify, I don't mean distance here but the % of times out of 10 that you catch one flush.

I can't comment on how the club looks / feels for you and how that translates into confidence, but trying to get at whether some features (looks aside) are producing better shots or not.

That's hard to say because the RSI's were the very first clubs I owned. I can guarantee you my swing has gotten better with RPs, but that's simply due to increased practice time. Trajectory and distance were probably better with the previous clubs because of the forgiveness and GI aspect.

If only there was an iron that looked like the Rogue Pro but played like a Big Bertha...
OK, this is not very helpful, but I don't know what to tell you.
Titleist 910 D2 11.25*, Diamana Ilima R-Flex (tipped 1')
Callaway X Hot Pro 19* Fairway, Project X Velocity 6.0
TaylorMade Raylor 22*, Raylor RE*AX S-Flex
TaylorMade Rescue 25*, Aldila RE*AX S-Flex
Ping G25 6-PW (28*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter

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#28 NorthTXGolf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:42 AM

View PostbmeGT, on 12 February 2019 - 08:06 AM, said:

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How far do you hit your 7-iron?  How far do you hit your driver?

If you are a very strong player, I would say stick with the Rogue Pros for another year.  If you are like me (7-iron 145), a game improvement iron would be helpful.

With my RSI 1s I hit my 7 around 150. With the RP on flush hits I'll get 145. On misses I'm more in the 130-135 range, which is just discouraging. I know golf isn't about distance but knowing you can and should get more out of a club gets you down when you don't.

I hit my driver 200 yards. 10.5*

If you are only gaining 50 yards from your 7i to your driver you are doing something fundamentally wrong at your yardages.
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#29 bmeGT

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:57 AM

Quote


If you are only gaining 50 yards from your 7i to your driver you are doing something fundamentally wrong at your yardages.

Let's play it safe and call my 7i 140. My 6i goes 150. If I hit my 5i like it should be hit, I can get around 160. My 4h goes 170, my 3h goes 180/190. Driver is 200.

I know I'm new to the game, but what is fundamentally wrong about that?

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#30 jjfcpa

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:09 AM

View PostbmeGT, on 12 February 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

View Postjjfcpa, on 11 February 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

Over time, you might grow into the Rogue Pro's, but it sounds like you don't have enough confidence to be playing these clubs.  I believe that every time you pull a club out of the bag, you have to feel that you are going to flush it.  You may not, but you have to believe that you can.  It doesn't sound like you have that kind of confidence with these clubs and I would look for something more appropriate to your abilities and inspire your confidence.  

I made a similar decision recently because I didn't have the same confidence with the long irons that I did with the short irons.  I felt like I needed to be able to rely on my longs irons more and made a change to a more forgiving set of clubs.  Although I've only had a chance to hit them indoors (due to the weather), I feel much more confident when pulling out a long iron.  I'm looking forward to lower scores and better results when I get out on the course.

Thanks for the tips. I had previously thought of purchasing a 5, 6, and 7i in the Rogue irons to help with that extra bit of forgiveness. I'll take another look at that, thanks!

My post here has nothing to do with brands, I think every OEM makes great clubs.  I've played Rogue X and couldn't find the sweet spot.  Just did not look right at address and I had to move on.  They are good clubs, just not for me.  

I tried the Ping i500 and they are also great clubs.  Had really good success with them but it was a matter of not being able to hit the long irons that bothered me.  I didn't want to split the set so I decided to make a change.  I wanted something that would inspire my confidence throughout the set and I think I may have found that.  I won't know for sure till I get outside - early March I'll get a chance to play them in Laughlin, NV.  

I worked on my swing and took some lessons so that my swing is pretty repeatable.  At this point, it's all about finding the club that makes you feel confident at address and enjoying the game.  Hopefully, I'm there.


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