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Hypothetical - 6 more clubs


44 replies to this topic

#1 MocGolfer

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:04 PM

If they allowed Pros to use 20 clubs, would it make a difference in their scoring? Would the ability to have a big choice of wedges and other clubs in their bag improve their scoring? By how much?

Or are the pros good enough to hit what shots they need to make with their current number of 14.

I remember some pro even played once with two putters, one for long putts and one for short ones.

What say you?


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#2 tiderider

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:06 PM

um, no ...

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#3 MocGolfer

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:12 PM

Didn't Phil once put two drivers in his bag? One for draws and one for fades?

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#4 MattyO1984

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:14 PM

Could you imagine how long it would take?

Is it a 7, a 7.5 or an 8?

64 degree wedge or the 70?

The only people who would like this would be club manufacturers.

Edited by MattyO1984, 11 February 2019 - 12:15 PM.

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#5 Ty_Webb

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:26 PM

I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.

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#6 MocGolfer

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:31 PM

View PostTy_Webb, on 11 February 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.

It would be fun to watch...how much would that effect scoring?

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#7 Hawkeye77

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:33 PM

Would be silly and pointless.

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#8 Ty_Webb

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:34 PM

View PostMocGolfer, on 11 February 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

View PostTy_Webb, on 11 February 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.

It would be fun to watch...how much would that effect scoring?

I think winning scores would be similar. I think the top guys would still be the top guys. You might get more churn in the 2nd rung and I think there would be more variability in scores week to week.
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#9 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:35 PM

View PostTy_Webb, on 11 February 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'd rather they make the limit 9 clubs. I think that would be a very interesting test. Can you figure out how to take a club off or add a club to what you are hitting. Is it a hooded, pumped 8 iron, or a grip down 3/4 6 iron. That would be fun to watch and would make shotmaking much more important.

I would like that better too. Although what  I would like the most is just to leave it alone. 14 works now, it worked in the past, it will keep working.
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#10 MocGolfer

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:35 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 11 February 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Would be silly and pointless.

From what I have read there is no magic to the number 14, was just sorta randomly chosen way back in time to be the limit.


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#11 bladehunter

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:46 PM

This idea is like this guys idea.



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#12 stryper

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:51 PM

 MocGolfer, on 11 February 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

Didn't Phil once put two drivers in his bag? One for draws and one for fades?

Yes, but he still only had 14 clubs.
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#13 GolfChannel

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:54 PM

No, I don't see how past 15 clubs it would make a real difference. I think having so many options may lead to paralysis by analysis.
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#14 wildcatden

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:08 PM

If they allowed 20 clubs, Ben Hogan Golf company would make a roaring comeback to the top of the golf equipment world....which would not be a bad thing IMHO.

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#15 gvogel

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:11 PM

 MocGolfer, on 11 February 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

Didn't Phil once put two drivers in his bag? One for draws and one for fades?

YEs, and he won a Masters with that combo.

On Sundays, I used to play hickory

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#16 gvogel

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:18 PM

 MocGolfer, on 11 February 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

 Hawkeye77, on 11 February 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Would be silly and pointless.

From what I have read there is no magic to the number 14, was just sorta randomly chosen way back in time to be the limit.

The story that I read was as follows:

There was a Walker Cup match in 1936 at Pine Valley.  At that point, players such as Lawson Little were carrying 34 clubs in their bags - or at least the caddies were.

Bobby Jones was watching the matches, and on his way out one afternoon happened to meet an old friend from Great Britain who had also played in Walker Cup matches in the 1920's.  They met up in the parking lot.

They got to talking.  Jones had used upwards of 16 clubs when he played; his British friend had used 12.  They thought that 14 might be a good compromise.  Jones had a lot of influence with the USGA.  Heck, if you were the best golfer in the world, and amateur at that, you too would have influence.  When Jones approached the USGA about a 14 club limit, well, it got done.

( I happen to be a proponent of 10 clubs.  Harry Vardon won 6 Open Championships and 1 US Open with 9.)

Edit: Lawson Little has just turned professional that Spring, so he was not playing.  But he had won both the US Amateur and British Amateur the two previous years, so the number of clubs that he played was well known in the golf world in 1936.  Wikipedia stated that he used up to 26 clubs; I thought that I had read 34 many years ago.

Playing in that 1936 Walker Cup was Johnny Goodman, the last amateur to win a US Open (1933).  Also, John Fischer, the last person to win a US Amateur playing hickory shafted clubs (1936)

Francis Ouimet was the Captain.  You might have heard of him.  Just a little trivia for Monday.

Edited by gvogel, 11 February 2019 - 01:38 PM.

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#17 duffer987

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:19 PM

Got it. So you don't like caddies, spectators, and viewers at home.
This hypothetical would be practically awful.

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#18 NevinW

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:34 PM

As outlined in a previous text, we would go back to how it was before the 14 club limit in the 1930's.  No appreciable change in scoring, marked increase in hernia surgeries for caddies.

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#19 dlygrisse

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:57 PM

the reason there is a 14 club limit (was once 16 in USGA events I believe) is because they started making sets in 1/2 club increments.  It was killing the caddies, this was before carts.  

Personally I think it should be 12.  It would spread the gaps out just enough the big hitters would need to learn to hit more shots and the slower swingers would still have good gap spacing.

20 would be ridiculous.  I sometimes carry 15 if I am just messing around, and I rarely use more than 12 a round. Of my 4 wedges I can't remember the last time all 4 were needed in one round.
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#20 MocGolfer

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:13 PM

Geesh....I didn't advocate for it, my question was given 20 clubs would pros' scores go down any?  And while still NOT advocating for it...caddies can use push carts I believe, true?


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#21 mds5062

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:31 PM

I would think it wouldn't make a difference. They might have customized clubs for a particular shot, like the Phil two driver comment above. Otherwise, instead of gripping down or forward lean on some shots, they would hit a new club entirely but achieve the same goal.

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#22 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:35 PM

16 would be a good number,  extra driver and wedge or blade and mallet putter.

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#23 Frostfield

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:37 PM

View Posttiderider, on 11 February 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

um, no ...

[font=&]

um, yes...

Having 6  wedges and extra 4/5 wood and or driving iron would be extremely valuable on Par 5s. No yardage gapping whatsoever.  I like carrying 4 wedges so I always have a decent gap between my 2 hybrid and 3 wood.  245 is a nightmare yardage for me.  That number doesn't come up that often, but when it does....

Then of course having a 2 driver setup would be amazing once you got it dialed in.  I would love to have a driver set up for a draw.  A bit more loft, a slightly softer tip, and a little weight towards the heel.

I honestly believe it would shave a full stroke off the pro's average score.


Edited by Frostfield, 11 February 2019 - 02:39 PM.


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#24 gvogel

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:48 PM

View Postmds5062, on 11 February 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

I would think it wouldn't make a difference. They might have customized clubs for a particular shot, like the Phil two driver comment above. Otherwise, instead of gripping down or forward lean on some shots, they would hit a new club entirely but achieve the same goal.

The aforementioned Lawson Little also had a few left handed clubs in his bag - just in case.
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#25 cdnglf

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:14 PM

Over the course of a season, I think you’d see a difference. Having ~7 yard gaps all the way down to a 64 degree club would show up in proximity to the hole stats.


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#26 Vardon Grip

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:19 PM

Too many clubs as it is. Lower the limit to 9 or 7 and would make it more interesting.

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#27 DavePelz4

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:23 PM

Back in the Corporate America days, I hosted a scramble for our clients.  One of the CIO's of a well know company showed up to play with both a right and left handed set of clubs in separate bags.  He was ambidextrous and preferred to hit every shot with a draw.  Did it help him or the team...um no.  Did it have people laughing at him instead of me?  Um...yes.

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#28 Z1ggy16

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:37 PM

It would give them more options but I do not think they'd score any better. 6 more clubs I could see something like:
  • Guys could carry a 5w and a driving iron
  • a fade driver and a draw driver or
  • a low spin driver and higher spin driver
  • a very low lofted 3w or mini driver to chase balls up to the green on long par 5's if they can't hit driver off the deck
  • 1 or even 2 specialty wedges
  • an extra putter
For me personally if I could add 6 clubs I'd probably add something like -

1) Mega low spin driver for hitting into the wind or for links golf. Something like an M3 or SZ playing at like 8-9*, 44'' or even 43.5'' long.
2) I'd ditch the hybrid and add a 5w and a 20* driving iron.
3) Low bounce Sand wedge (already have higher bounce)
4) Low bounce Lob wedge (already have higher bounce)
5) 64* PM Grind/Hi Toe wedge
6) Mega high MOI putter for long lags when contact can stray from center.
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#29 thesaxemachine

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:58 PM

I'd add a lefty club for when I get stymied.
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#30 dlygrisse

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:00 PM

View PostVardon Grip, on 11 February 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

Too many clubs as it is. Lower the limit to 9 or 7 and would make it more interesting.

I believe your avatar played a 7 club set.  There is a pic of them in his book.  Greatest golfer in the history of the game when he retired.

Edit, found the pic on line, it was actually 9 clubs.  
16fe5641102d5880149d0de1e5d1ce25.jpg

Edited by dlygrisse, 11 February 2019 - 04:03 PM.

Current 17 club rotation
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Callaway V Series 3w, HW
Callaway Steelhead 4 and 5 hybrid
Ping G 4-U
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
Vokey 58 M grind
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Jones Utility
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

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