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Scourge of Every Golf Course


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#31 rt_charger

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:22 PM

For reference, has anyone ever measured the hard putting mat greens you see in your typical large golf shop? I've putted on those and swear they roll at a 13-14

Edited by rt_charger, 11 February 2019 - 11:23 PM.

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#32 augustgolf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:57 AM

View PostMatt J, on 11 February 2019 - 10:39 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 11 February 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 11 February 2019 - 08:03 PM, said:

I made my own stimpmeter a few years ago using the tray from a bike rack.  Rather than having the nifty hole that would drop the ball at the right height I would measure the height then release the ball from a stand still.  Not perfect but pretty close I think.

I measured all the local practice greens and the fastest one was 8.5 feet, most were around 6.5.

Guys are always saying, that's gotta be 11 when I bet it's maybe 9.

I've played a few tournaments where they rolled at 10.5 and faster and people blow up.  4 and 5 putts to pins with slope.

Interesting I like the ambition!

Speed sticks are designed as a standard measuring device and are near ubiquitous golf clubs, it's just whether or not it gets used. Speed sticks drop the ball at 20 degrees, where the ball will exit with a consistent repeatable velocity of 6 feet per second when done correctly.

I have a digital level that I used to set the angle and then it is a certain distance, I don't remember the exact details, but I researched it extensively.

Funny, I did it to test my rug because I thought that putting on my carpet was training me to hit it too hard.

I'd bet it's within a half of a foot.  I'll try and remember to bring it when I come up mallrat.

Just for hsits & giggles - what speed does your carpet stimp out at?
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#33 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:25 AM

View PostChrismydawg, on 11 February 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 11 February 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

Our greens are fast right now as the API prep is underway.

So much fun.

Saw Crossfield and the boys were out there recently.

Maybe Tiger can win #9.

No s***!

I was wondering why there was a small camera crew out there and the occasional drone flying around...aside from the occasional 'big camera' Golf Channel stuff they do out there.

Off to youtube to watch...
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#34 Matt J

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:39 AM

View Postaugustgolf, on 12 February 2019 - 06:57 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 11 February 2019 - 10:39 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 11 February 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 11 February 2019 - 08:03 PM, said:

I made my own stimpmeter a few years ago using the tray from a bike rack.  Rather than having the nifty hole that would drop the ball at the right height I would measure the height then release the ball from a stand still.  Not perfect but pretty close I think.

I measured all the local practice greens and the fastest one was 8.5 feet, most were around 6.5.

Guys are always saying, that's gotta be 11 when I bet it's maybe 9.

I've played a few tournaments where they rolled at 10.5 and faster and people blow up.  4 and 5 putts to pins with slope.

Interesting I like the ambition!

Speed sticks are designed as a standard measuring device and are near ubiquitous golf clubs, it's just whether or not it gets used. Speed sticks drop the ball at 20 degrees, where the ball will exit with a consistent repeatable velocity of 6 feet per second when done correctly.

I have a digital level that I used to set the angle and then it is a certain distance, I don't remember the exact details, but I researched it extensively.

Funny, I did it to test my rug because I thought that putting on my carpet was training me to hit it too hard.

I'd bet it's within a half of a foot.  I'll try and remember to bring it when I come up mallrat.

Just for hsits & giggles - what speed does your carpet stimp out at?

You're too kind to indulge my insanity.

My carpet was about 7.5, so I found some kind of really thin almost feels like felt, rug from Lowe's.  It was inexpensive and green too, what a bonus.

It rolls at about 8.5 which I've found to be better for practice.

I ripped that other carpet out and put hardwoods in last summer so I had to make some change.

Believe it or not, augustgolf, there is quite a bit of dialogue out there about the speeds of different carpets.  Evidently the holy grail was a certain weave found in the trunk of a Toyota Camry, I kid you not.  Supposed to run around 10.5 if I remember correctly.

You can change the speed a lot by what you lay it over.  The softer the subsurface the slower it rolls.

Edited by Matt J, 12 February 2019 - 11:42 AM.


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#35 BNGL

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:55 AM

View PostMatt J, on 12 February 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

View Postaugustgolf, on 12 February 2019 - 06:57 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 11 February 2019 - 10:39 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 11 February 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 11 February 2019 - 08:03 PM, said:

I made my own stimpmeter a few years ago using the tray from a bike rack.  Rather than having the nifty hole that would drop the ball at the right height I would measure the height then release the ball from a stand still.  Not perfect but pretty close I think.

I measured all the local practice greens and the fastest one was 8.5 feet, most were around 6.5.

Guys are always saying, that's gotta be 11 when I bet it's maybe 9.

I've played a few tournaments where they rolled at 10.5 and faster and people blow up.  4 and 5 putts to pins with slope.

Interesting I like the ambition!

Speed sticks are designed as a standard measuring device and are near ubiquitous golf clubs, it's just whether or not it gets used. Speed sticks drop the ball at 20 degrees, where the ball will exit with a consistent repeatable velocity of 6 feet per second when done correctly.

I have a digital level that I used to set the angle and then it is a certain distance, I don't remember the exact details, but I researched it extensively.

Funny, I did it to test my rug because I thought that putting on my carpet was training me to hit it too hard.

I'd bet it's within a half of a foot.  I'll try and remember to bring it when I come up mallrat.

Just for hsits & giggles - what speed does your carpet stimp out at?

You're too kind to indulge my insanity.

My carpet was about 7.5, so I found some kind of really thin almost feels like felt, rug from Lowe's.  It was inexpensive and green too, what a bonus.

It rolls at about 8.5 which I've found to be better for practice.

I ripped that other carpet out and put hardwoods in last summer so I had to make some change.

Believe it or not, augustgolf, there is quite a bit of dialogue out there about the speeds of different carpets.  Evidently the holy grail was a certain weave found in the trunk of a Toyota Camry, I kid you not.  Supposed to run around 10.5 if I remember correctly.

You can change the speed a lot by what you lay it over.  The softer the subsurface the slower it rolls.

Reading this made my day will definitely share with the crew lol.


Hey guys good job our greens are camrys!!!!!!!


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#36 Matt J

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:59 AM

Haha.  Glad you liked it.  I don't have the resolve to find it, but one of the tour pros is rumored to have a putting studio with the Camry carpet, Charles Howell III maybe?  You could buy it on eBay by the roll at one point.

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#37 BNGL

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:19 PM

View PostMatt J, on 12 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

Haha.  Glad you liked it.  I don't have the resolve to find it, but one of the tour pros is rumored to have a putting studio with the Camry carpet, Charles Howell III maybe?  You could buy it on eBay by the roll at one point.

How do you know sticks?

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#38 augustgolf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 02:44 PM

I remember reading a couple threads about home-built inside putting greens, and the Toyota trunk lining/carpeting being some good stuff.

I actually designed a putting green for a project in Europe, with a hydraulic sub-surface capability, to be able to subtly change the way the green surface broke, to alleviate wear patterns over time. it was a pretty cool project - converting massive aircraft hangers to different uses.

Maybe I can find someone here in NC that wants to partner with me in converting some old, abandoned warehouse/manufacturing facility...????

It wouldn't be Top Golf, but would be even better!

Edited by augustgolf, 12 February 2019 - 03:19 PM.

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#39 Matt J

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 02:59 PM

View PostBNGL, on 12 February 2019 - 12:19 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 12 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

Haha.  Glad you liked it.  I don't have the resolve to find it, but one of the tour pros is rumored to have a putting studio with the Camry carpet, Charles Howell III maybe?  You could buy it on eBay by the roll at one point.

How do you know sticks?

Don't know him.  My girlfriend all through college and into grad school went to high school with him in Augusta.  I always hear nice things about him.  Supposedly one of the bigger gear aficionados on tour.

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#40 BNGL

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:15 PM

View PostMatt J, on 12 February 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 12 February 2019 - 12:19 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 12 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

Haha.  Glad you liked it.  I don't have the resolve to find it, but one of the tour pros is rumored to have a putting studio with the Camry carpet, Charles Howell III maybe?  You could buy it on eBay by the roll at one point.

How do you know sticks?

Don't know him.  My girlfriend all through college and into grad school went to high school with him in Augusta.  I always hear nice things about him.  Supposedly one of the bigger gear aficionados on tour.

Yeah he’s a real nerd...seriously. My boss when I was in Orlando got to know him really well when he was in charge of the Disney courses back when they had their event. So well that he got Howells handle downs from Callaway, then from Bridgestone. Got to play a few times with him at Isleworth. Great guy!


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#41 Matt J

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:16 PM

View Postaugustgolf, on 12 February 2019 - 02:44 PM, said:

I remember reading a couple threads about home-built inside putting greens, and the Toyota trunk lining/carpeting being some good stuff.

I actually designed a putting green for a project in Europe, with a hydraulic sub-surface capability, to be able to subtly change the way the green surface broke, to alleviate wear patterns over time. it was a pretty cool project - converting massive aircraft hangers to different uses.

Maybe I can find someone here in NC that wants to partne rwith me in converting some old, abandoned warehouse/manufacturing facility...????

It wouldn't be Top Golf, but would be even better!

I dream of building a putting studio with a big indoor green with undulations.  I think it would be super cool to have a bunch of holes set up with different putts that correlated with greens from a simulator, so basically if you have a 12 footer that breaks 10 inches and is a 2% grade down hill the Simulator tells you go hit putt "7" from 12 feet.  I don't know how you'd deal with missed greens, I guess you could just add a stroke to your score and the machine could kick a putt out for you based on how bad you missed.  As the Simulator technology improves and gets cheaper I think Top Golf's model is a little out of whack.  I'd rather everyone have their own simulator, so you would go hit your drive and approach in your own time and then everyone would come back to this putting green where they would take turns holing out.  You could socialize and drink around the green for as long as you choose before going back and "playing" the next hole.  Total pipe dream, but I've figured out some neat devices that you can use to fit a putter, mirrors on the face with a laser pointer covered up until you aim, and the SightRight parallax device are the two I always talk about.  I think you could build a little photo station where you go and take a bunch of static measurements and still photos, then you go video and take SAM measurements of a guy's stroke, maybe a pressure plate profile of his weight shift, do some analysis about his misses, check up on the face angle with the mirrors, check up on the ideal position over the ball with the SightRight, then test some alignment aids and lie angle and length and improve a guys putting 10 fold.  If done correctly, if you had the heads in different weights you could engrave the sight aids and cook the paint fill on while he waits and does a whiskey tasting or something.  Man Cave Putter Fittings, haha.

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#42 augustgolf

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:21 PM

View PostMatt J, on 12 February 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

View Postaugustgolf, on 12 February 2019 - 02:44 PM, said:

I remember reading a couple threads about home-built inside putting greens, and the Toyota trunk lining/carpeting being some good stuff.

I actually designed a putting green for a project in Europe, with a hydraulic sub-surface capability, to be able to subtly change the way the green surface broke, to alleviate wear patterns over time. it was a pretty cool project - converting massive aircraft hangers to different uses.

Maybe I can find someone here in NC that wants to partne rwith me in converting some old, abandoned warehouse/manufacturing facility...????

It wouldn't be Top Golf, but would be even better!

I dream of building a putting studio with a big indoor green with undulations.  I think it would be super cool to have a bunch of holes set up with different putts that correlated with greens from a simulator, so basically if you have a 12 footer that breaks 10 inches and is a 2% grade down hill the Simulator tells you go hit putt "7" from 12 feet.  I don't know how you'd deal with missed greens, I guess you could just add a stroke to your score and the machine could kick a putt out for you based on how bad you missed.  As the Simulator technology improves and gets cheaper I think Top Golf's model is a little out of whack.  I'd rather everyone have their own simulator, so you would go hit your drive and approach in your own time and then everyone would come back to this putting green where they would take turns holing out.  You could socialize and drink around the green for as long as you choose before going back and "playing" the next hole.  Total pipe dream, but I've figured out some neat devices that you can use to fit a putter, mirrors on the face with a laser pointer covered up until you aim, and the SightRight parallax device are the two I always talk about.  I think you could build a little photo station where you go and take a bunch of static measurements and still photos, then you go video and take SAM measurements of a guy's stroke, maybe a pressure plate profile of his weight shift, do some analysis about his misses, check up on the face angle with the mirrors, check up on the ideal position over the ball with the SightRight, then test some alignment aids and lie angle and length and improve a guys putting 10 fold.  If done correctly, if you had the heads in different weights you could engrave the sight aids and cook the paint fill on while he waits and does a whiskey tasting or something.  Man Cave Putter Fittings, haha.

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#43 mallrat

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:33 PM

BNGL, how do your green speeds match your course? I know you’ve said you have gotten them a bit quicker come member guest time and stuff but is it a good match for the course? Or just not a good match for most of the ability level of the members?

Or what do you feel is the ideal speed of your greens compared to the slope of the greens?

Edited by mallrat, 12 February 2019 - 07:34 PM.


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#44 BNGL

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 10:44 AM

View Postmallrat, on 12 February 2019 - 07:33 PM, said:

BNGL, how do your green speeds match your course? I know you’ve said you have gotten them a bit quicker come member guest time and stuff but is it a good match for the course? Or just not a good match for most of the ability level of the members?

Or what do you feel is the ideal speed of your greens compared to the slope of the greens?

I think pretty well, especially as they have matured. When they were brand new they were so firm members couldn’t hold greens (I am a decent player and had to adjust my game because the first bounce was always waist high it was fun to play but I’m glad it’s softened up since then!).

Our greens are really small, I have 21 greens totaling 1.98 acres (for reference 1 acre is 43,560. Each green averages about 4100 square feet which is tiny; PGA Tour averages about 6,000 square feet; Fun fact Pebble Beach has the smallest greens on tour with an average of 3,500 square feet).

So there’s sections to each green with a general back to front slope, and open firm approaches to foster run up shots. So I would say that although I think it’s too fast on the greens, the speeds match pretty well for the shots that are required to score well for membership (run ups) and better players (hit spots away from pins and feed the ball in).



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#45 RSinSG

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:09 PM

View PostBNGL, on 13 February 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Fun fact Pebble Beach has the smallest greens on tour with an average of 3,500 square feet).

I can attest to this fact. Finally got to play there last summer and for the most part I got on the greens as a result of a short chip. Didn't get many GIR's.

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