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Rocco and Alcohol


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#181 bladehunter

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:54 PM

View PostMr. Hogan, on 11 February 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

This thread has taken a turn for the worse...

Was bound to happen once the excuses showed up.

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#182 augustgolf

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:59 PM

View Postjeffreyl, on 11 February 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 11 February 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

For the person who stated, "no one kicks an addiction."   I disagree.

Every single day people quit smoking, and never smoke another day in their lives.
Same goes for booze, pills and eating disorders, etc.

In order to beat something you must think and act "with the end in mind."   If a person lacks a desired end result then it can be said that person lacks a road map to follow and will more than likely fall back into old behaviors that support the addiction.  One must believe he or she can truly kick it 100% or they will be trapped forever in pattern of behaviors that feed their addiction.


As I stated on or about my first post - Addiction is the inability to stop.  Those who get the help and learn how to stop are the ones that have a higher probability of kicking the addiction.   That takes guts and a major shift in daily behavior.

You really do like to hear yourself pontificate. What you are spewing is your opinion; in the real world of Alcoholism and the insanity associated with same, your posts have no validity. Much like me posting about how it is to play Professional Golf, because I have seen it, watched it and read about it. I sincerely hope that you never have to deal with the reality of Alcoholism with close family members or friends. The “advice” you seem to believe is helpful is not even close.....as an example, explain how one gets “guts”.? It compares to willpower when you have diarrhea. You also don’t generally have a shift in daily behavior without surrendering and following a proven plan, hopefully with Mentors that have had the experience.. As has been stated in this thread, Alcoholism is a Physical, Mental and Spiritual disease. Quit drinking and you have the mental ( insanity) and spiritual problems. The effect and suffering on family members is another major issue that does not go away because the Alcoholic quits. Yes, “ cognitive therapy” might help, but generally that could be PART of the Recovery ( not cure) plan. One of my close friends, tried drinking after 30 years, within a very short time he was locked up and needed hospitalization....nearly died. Thankfully he is sober, today. What you are not understanding is that the mental changes that need to be made after abstaining take a long time and continued follow through, we did not get that way  overnight and generally the recovery and growing process takes a lifetime. You might ask yourself why you are posting about something that you have no experience with? I would rally like an answer to that??

Fergie is one of the more thoughtful and considerate of the members here.

I, for one, don't appreciate your taking a shot at him. He has an opinion. That is what these forums are for - opinions.

FWIW, I have learned many things by reading comments from various members here, some of whom I have gotten to know, and other that I am just beginning to know about.

Let me pontificate a bit for you: the rules of this board ask you to treat others with respect in youjr postings. I don't think that  your last post (the one that I am responding to) really did that.

Carry on -

Edit: I respect the right each and every member here has to post their opinion. If I listen or read with an open mind, I will learn something new.

I have been called an alcoholic by those speciallists who are paid big $$$$ to evaluate and put "alcoholics" into the "system" - all because I have had alcohol in the morning. Does that really make me an alcoholic?  My, my, my - I worked a winter job, 11pm - 7 am shift - and, when I had a drink before I went to sleep...I became an alcoholic.

If you can't tell, I have very little respect for the "professional" evaluators, but I have worlds of respect for the members of this forum......


well....except Opinder....

Edited by augustgolf, 11 February 2019 - 02:10 PM.

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#183 kcsf

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:27 PM

View PostMr. Hogan, on 11 February 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

This thread has taken a turn for the worse...

I couldn't disagree more. Intelligent (or those trying to be) discourse is what separates us from all other species and defines our being. We have a deeper understanding of others, and more importantly ourselves, when beliefs and ideas are challenged. It's the inability of many of us to truly listen to what another has said, reflect on it, and adjust your belief system if their statement has more validity than your own. Our ego rarely allows us to do this with any amount of efficiency.
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#184 jeffreyl

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:06 PM

Absolutely no one can tell anyone else that they are alcoholic, that is up to each person to decide. I can tell you about symptoms and my experience and my experience with Recovery and the template and Mentors that I associate with. My story and experience is all I have (much, learned from others).

The result is expressed in what My life has been and what it is today and if you might perceive that my change has been a success.
If someone does not want what I have they should seek other avenues, hopefully sooner than later.

For me, again, Alcoholism is about Life and Death, not random thoughts or ďmaybesĒ. For me, ďto drink is to dieĒ and I have experience with this; my son nearly died in my arms from alcohol overdose 11 years ago., I nearly died, 40 years ago.  Am extremely grateful he is sober today. He never had to see me drunk and sick,, another thing I am very grateful for.

I wonít post again and my intent is not to suggest that anyone else shouldnít.

I try to live by; ďYou canít give away something you donít haveĒ and ďdonít speak beyond your experienceĒ, told to me for good reasons .

Edited by jeffreyl, 11 February 2019 - 04:34 PM.


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#185 callawayjay

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:15 PM

If you take a drunk narcissistic ahole  and sober him up, you get a sober narcissistic ahole. The alcohol/drugs are a symptom of the problem. They arenít the problem. The problem is the user


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#186 bladehunter

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:16 PM

View Postjeffreyl, on 11 February 2019 - 03:06 PM, said:

Absolutely no one can tell anyone else that they are alcoholic, that is up to each person to decide. I can tell you about symptoms and my experience and my experience with Recovery and the template and Mentors that I associate with. My story and experience is all I have (much, learned from others).
The result is expressed in what My life has been and what it is today and if you might perceive that my change has been a success.
If someone does not want what I have they should seek other avenues, hopefully sooner than later.

For me, again, Alcoholism is about Life and Death, not random thoughts or ďmaybesĒ. For me, ďto drink is to dieĒ and I have experience with this; my son nearly died in my arms from alcohol overdose 11 years ago., I nearly died, 40 years ago.  Am extremely grateful he is sober today. He never had to see me drunk and sick,, another thing I am very grateful for.

I wonít post again and my intent is not to suggest that anyone else shouldnít.

I try to live by; ďYou canít give away something you donít haveĒ and ďdonít speak beyond your experienceĒ, told to me for good reasons .

Brother.  


I appreciate your candor.  And I have to say. Weíre all saying versions of the exact same thing.  None wrong , none perfectly correct.
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#187 dpb5031

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:28 PM

Fascinating discussion,and I appreciate the different perspectives. I am very perplexed about the entire addiction phenomena.

I think there's  more to it than science and/or behaviorists can currently explain...most definitely a very nuanced thing. Why do some become addicts so easily. I suppose we're all different...body chemistry, life experience, psychological trauma, pain, insecurities,  etc...nature v. nurture, who knows the root cause(s)?

I've had 4 surgeries over the years from sports injuries, each time prescribed 10 mg percocets. Guess I'm lucky; one pill makes me feel pretty good, but I get sick as a dog if I take two. After 2 days I'm done with them, period. (And I'm no saint or super-disciplined type, a regular enough drinker to probably be labeled an alcoholic by some folk's definition, and I like a few drinks on the course to help with arthritis pain (actually play better) sorta like Rocco explains.

Anyway, buddy of mine goes in for back surgery, gets the same 10 mg percs, and 3 months later he's spending $400 per day buying oxys on the street in Manhattan. He's a Wall St. dude, so could afford it, but fully acknowledged that if he couldn't have afforded it would have likely turned to heroin. He's not even a big drinker! Took a stint in rehab for him to "recover".

I'm convinced there's much more to it than the old "addictive personality" explanation. Seems like everyone responds differently to these substances.

I've known and currently know plenty of alcoholics. The worst ones have one thing in common, no "shut-off valve". Once they get rolling it doesnt matter if they're supposed to be home for dinner, have work or whatever obligation the next day, etc., and come last call they'll typically order two plus a "roadie", even if all its gonna do is make 'em feel shittier the next day. Tough to explain, and tough to overcome for sure


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#188 Ferguson

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:17 AM

View PostSteele47, on 11 February 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 11 February 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

For the person who stated, "no one kicks an addiction."   I disagree.

Every single day people quit smoking, and never smoke another day in their lives.
Same goes for booze, pills and eating disorders, etc.

In order to beat something you must think and act "with the end in mind."   If a person lacks a desired end result then it can be said that person lacks a road map to follow and will more than likely fall back into old behaviors that support the addiction.  One must believe he or she can truly kick it 100% or they will be trapped forever in pattern of behaviors that feed their addiction.


As I stated on or about my first post - Addiction is the inability to stop.  Those who get the help and learn how to stop are the ones that have a higher probability of kicking the addiction.   That takes guts and a major shift in daily behavior.


lol...  I've "kicked" my addiction hundreds and hundreds of times in that case.   The minute I decide that I 'kicked' alcohol is the minute I increase my chances of relapse 10 fold.

Don't stop trying.

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#189 Forged4ever

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:29 AM

View PostMr. Hogan, on 11 February 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

This thread has taken a turn for the worse...
How so?

Stay Well,
RP
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#190 bulls9999

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:51 AM

So that brings to mind the lunacy of legalizing pot.

View PostMan_O_War, on 06 February 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

View PostZAP, on 06 February 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

It really never ceases to amaze me how many lives alcohol has impacted.  From a sociological perspective it actually fascinates me how much of a drinking culture we live in.


it's one of those legal things that is mind boggling at best...

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#191 fore_life

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:34 AM

View Postbulls9999, on 12 February 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:

So that brings to mind the lunacy of legalizing pot.

View PostMan_O_War, on 06 February 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

View PostZAP, on 06 February 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

It really never ceases to amaze me how many lives alcohol has impacted.  From a sociological perspective it actually fascinates me how much of a drinking culture we live in.


it's one of those legal things that is mind boggling at best...

I can rattle off a massive list of issues from alcohol abuse, so tell me more about the scourge of society that use legal or medical mj
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#192 wmblake2000

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:05 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 11 February 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

View Postjeffreyl, on 11 February 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 11 February 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

For the person who stated, "no one kicks an addiction."   I disagree.

Every single day people quit smoking, and never smoke another day in their lives.
Same goes for booze, pills and eating disorders, etc.

In order to beat something you must think and act "with the end in mind."   If a person lacks a desired end result then it can be said that person lacks a road map to follow and will more than likely fall back into old behaviors that support the addiction.  One must believe he or she can truly kick it 100% or they will be trapped forever in pattern of behaviors that feed their addiction.


As I stated on or about my first post - Addiction is the inability to stop.  Those who get the help and learn how to stop are the ones that have a higher probability of kicking the addiction.   That takes guts and a major shift in daily behavior.

You really do like to hear yourself pontificate. What you are spewing is your opinion; in the real world of Alcoholism and the insanity associated with same, your posts have no validity. Much like me posting about how it is to play Professional Golf, because I have seen it, watched it and read about it. I sincerely hope that you never have to deal with the reality of Alcoholism with close family members or friends. The “advice” you seem to believe is helpful is not even close.....as an example, explain how one gets “guts”.? It compares to willpower when you have diarrhea. You also don’t generally have a shift in daily behavior without surrendering and following a proven plan, hopefully with Mentors that have had the experience.. As has been stated in this thread, Alcoholism is a Physical, Mental and Spiritual disease. Quit drinking and you have the mental ( insanity) and spiritual problems. The effect and suffering on family members is another major issue that does not go away because the Alcoholic quits. Yes, “ cognitive therapy” might help, but generally that could be PART of the Recovery ( not cure) plan. One of my close friends, tried drinking after 30 years, within a very short time he was locked up and needed hospitalization....nearly died. Thankfully he is sober, today. What you are not understanding is that the mental changes that need to be made after abstaining take a long time and continued follow through, we did not get that way  overnight and generally the recovery and growing process takes a lifetime. You might ask yourself why you are posting about something that you have no experience with? I would rally like an answer to that??

No.  I genuinely think it is you who aren’t understanding what he’s saying.  Boiled to simplest form he’s saying it’s a choice.  A choice one may need mountains of help with.  Plans galore.  Sponsors a plenty.  But a choice.  

Some do not seek any help.  They chose to take the path they are  on.  No other way to explain it.  If you get sober it’s because you chose to at some point. Yes ?  If you stay that way it’s a choice to do so yes ?  So we can deduce the opposite to also be true.  Maybe not a conscious decision to Drink to excess initially .  But a decision to continue doing it.  

Getting defensive and arguing no fault is illustrating exactly what I said in an earlier post.  

Here’s the dilemma. For 5 years before I got sober, literally every single day I vowed to not drink that day. And I mean with the most committed of intentions. And every single day, I nonetheless drank.

Let that sink in.

Now eventually, for a lot of reasons, with a lot of help and after really getting my azz kicked, I got sober.

But I’d never describe my process of sobriety as a ‘choice’ or ‘decision’ I made. And those hundreds who went to rehab or AA with me who relapsed over and over and over see the same thing.

The ‘decision’ to get sober was necessary but not sufficient.  The point is, people lose the power to choose. Every day for 5 years, as I look back at this 20 years later, I genuinely tried to choose not to drink and failed. That kind of challenge knocks you to your knees.

So all you guys who have no clue ... have no clue.

Sure plenty of addicts use disease and a scapegoat and rationale but inside they just don’t know how to find what it takes.

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#193 bladehunter

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:42 PM

View Postwmblake2000, on 12 February 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 11 February 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

View Postjeffreyl, on 11 February 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 11 February 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

For the person who stated, "no one kicks an addiction."   I disagree.

Every single day people quit smoking, and never smoke another day in their lives.
Same goes for booze, pills and eating disorders, etc.

In order to beat something you must think and act "with the end in mind."   If a person lacks a desired end result then it can be said that person lacks a road map to follow and will more than likely fall back into old behaviors that support the addiction.  One must believe he or she can truly kick it 100% or they will be trapped forever in pattern of behaviors that feed their addiction.


As I stated on or about my first post - Addiction is the inability to stop.  Those who get the help and learn how to stop are the ones that have a higher probability of kicking the addiction.   That takes guts and a major shift in daily behavior.

You really do like to hear yourself pontificate. What you are spewing is your opinion; in the real world of Alcoholism and the insanity associated with same, your posts have no validity. Much like me posting about how it is to play Professional Golf, because I have seen it, watched it and read about it. I sincerely hope that you never have to deal with the reality of Alcoholism with close family members or friends. The ďadviceĒ you seem to believe is helpful is not even close.....as an example, explain how one gets ďgutsĒ.? It compares to willpower when you have diarrhea. You also donít generally have a shift in daily behavior without surrendering and following a proven plan, hopefully with Mentors that have had the experience.. As has been stated in this thread, Alcoholism is a Physical, Mental and Spiritual disease. Quit drinking and you have the mental ( insanity) and spiritual problems. The effect and suffering on family members is another major issue that does not go away because the Alcoholic quits. Yes, ď cognitive therapyĒ might help, but generally that could be PART of the Recovery ( not cure) plan. One of my close friends, tried drinking after 30 years, within a very short time he was locked up and needed hospitalization....nearly died. Thankfully he is sober, today. What you are not understanding is that the mental changes that need to be made after abstaining take a long time and continued follow through, we did not get that way  overnight and generally the recovery and growing process takes a lifetime. You might ask yourself why you are posting about something that you have no experience with? I would rally like an answer to that??

No.  I genuinely think it is you who arenít understanding what heís saying.  Boiled to simplest form heís saying itís a choice.  A choice one may need mountains of help with.  Plans galore.  Sponsors a plenty.  But a choice.  

Some do not seek any help.  They chose to take the path they are  on.  No other way to explain it.  If you get sober itís because you chose to at some point. Yes ?  If you stay that way itís a choice to do so yes ?  So we can deduce the opposite to also be true.  Maybe not a conscious decision to Drink to excess initially .  But a decision to continue doing it.  

Getting defensive and arguing no fault is illustrating exactly what I said in an earlier post.  

Hereís the dilemma. For 5 years before I got sober, literally every single day I vowed to not drink that day. And I mean with the most committed of intentions. And every single day, I nonetheless drank.

Let that sink in.

Now eventually, for a lot of reasons, with a lot of help and after really getting my azz kicked, I got sober.

But Iíd never describe my process of sobriety as a Ďchoiceí or Ďdecisioní I made. And those hundreds who went to rehab or AA with me who relapsed over and over and over see the same thing.

The Ďdecisioní to get sober was necessary but not sufficient.  The point is, people lose the power to choose. Every day for 5 years, as I look back at this 20 years later, I genuinely tried to choose not to drink and failed. That kind of challenge knocks you to your knees.

So all you guys who have no clue ... have no clue.

Sure plenty of addicts use disease and a scapegoat and rationale but inside they just donít know how to find what it takes.

Iím not at all discounting your journey.  But you have to admit that no matter how long it took for that choice to take root.  You still had to choose.  Yes ?  You werenít telling people you didnít want help.  Or didnít want to get better were you ?  Some people do this.  Iíve heard it with my own ears.  They have not yet made that choice to live.  

Iím not trying to be disrespectful.  At all.  I respect you and your posts a great deal.  But Iíll stand by my posts that you can lead a horse to water. But you canít make him drink ( pardon the pun ).  He has to choose to.   I have no illusions that everyone can quit cold turkey.  But they have to take the baby steps if thatís what it takes.  Some people refuse to do that.  Which is a choice.

Look.  I know this is a multi angled and touchy subject. Iím trying very very hard not to come off as talking down to anyone.  I know thatís how I sound sometimes on any subject , especially one like this.    As Iíve said , Iíve been in this since birth.  Not by choice.  I could tell you things that would absolutely disgust  you that I saw my dad do.  He wasnít drunk all the time.  Not even every day.  Just Benderís  of rage.  And Iíll never see it as anything but a choice he made.  Period.  We have to take responsibility for every other action in life one way or another.     I see the ď I couldnít help it ď idea as skating that responsibility ( yet again ).    I just donít think Iíll live long enough to see it any other way.     Iím sorry for that opinion.  I know before I say it that it may offend.  Iím just trying to explain genuinely my thoughts on the subject.

Edited by bladehunter, 12 February 2019 - 12:53 PM.

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#194 ksuWildcat

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:46 PM

Rocco sounds like me...but I haven't quit.  I love the chew and beer.  I should definitely punt.  Too big of a wimp, though it crosses my mind more now then ever.

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#195 wmblake2000

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 02:08 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 12 February 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

View Postwmblake2000, on 12 February 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 11 February 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

View Postjeffreyl, on 11 February 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 11 February 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

For the person who stated, "no one kicks an addiction."   I disagree.

Every single day people quit smoking, and never smoke another day in their lives.
Same goes for booze, pills and eating disorders, etc.

In order to beat something you must think and act "with the end in mind."   If a person lacks a desired end result then it can be said that person lacks a road map to follow and will more than likely fall back into old behaviors that support the addiction.  One must believe he or she can truly kick it 100% or they will be trapped forever in pattern of behaviors that feed their addiction.


As I stated on or about my first post - Addiction is the inability to stop.  Those who get the help and learn how to stop are the ones that have a higher probability of kicking the addiction.   That takes guts and a major shift in daily behavior.

You really do like to hear yourself pontificate. What you are spewing is your opinion; in the real world of Alcoholism and the insanity associated with same, your posts have no validity. Much like me posting about how it is to play Professional Golf, because I have seen it, watched it and read about it. I sincerely hope that you never have to deal with the reality of Alcoholism with close family members or friends. The “advice” you seem to believe is helpful is not even close.....as an example, explain how one gets “guts”.? It compares to willpower when you have diarrhea. You also don’t generally have a shift in daily behavior without surrendering and following a proven plan, hopefully with Mentors that have had the experience.. As has been stated in this thread, Alcoholism is a Physical, Mental and Spiritual disease. Quit drinking and you have the mental ( insanity) and spiritual problems. The effect and suffering on family members is another major issue that does not go away because the Alcoholic quits. Yes, “ cognitive therapy” might help, but generally that could be PART of the Recovery ( not cure) plan. One of my close friends, tried drinking after 30 years, within a very short time he was locked up and needed hospitalization....nearly died. Thankfully he is sober, today. What you are not understanding is that the mental changes that need to be made after abstaining take a long time and continued follow through, we did not get that way  overnight and generally the recovery and growing process takes a lifetime. You might ask yourself why you are posting about something that you have no experience with? I would rally like an answer to that??

No.  I genuinely think it is you who aren’t understanding what he’s saying.  Boiled to simplest form he’s saying it’s a choice.  A choice one may need mountains of help with.  Plans galore.  Sponsors a plenty.  But a choice.  

Some do not seek any help.  They chose to take the path they are  on.  No other way to explain it.  If you get sober it’s because you chose to at some point. Yes ?  If you stay that way it’s a choice to do so yes ?  So we can deduce the opposite to also be true.  Maybe not a conscious decision to Drink to excess initially .  But a decision to continue doing it.  

Getting defensive and arguing no fault is illustrating exactly what I said in an earlier post.  

Here’s the dilemma. For 5 years before I got sober, literally every single day I vowed to not drink that day. And I mean with the most committed of intentions. And every single day, I nonetheless drank.

Let that sink in.

Now eventually, for a lot of reasons, with a lot of help and after really getting my azz kicked, I got sober.

But I’d never describe my process of sobriety as a ‘choice’ or ‘decision’ I made. And those hundreds who went to rehab or AA with me who relapsed over and over and over see the same thing.

The ‘decision’ to get sober was necessary but not sufficient.  The point is, people lose the power to choose. Every day for 5 years, as I look back at this 20 years later, I genuinely tried to choose not to drink and failed. That kind of challenge knocks you to your knees.

So all you guys who have no clue ... have no clue.

Sure plenty of addicts use disease and a scapegoat and rationale but inside they just don’t know how to find what it takes.

I’m not at all discounting your journey.  But you have to admit that no matter how long it took for that choice to take root.  You still had to choose.  Yes ?  You weren’t telling people you didn’t want help.  Or didn’t want to get better were you ?  Some people do this.  I’ve heard it with my own ears.  They have not yet made that choice to live.  

I’m not trying to be disrespectful.  At all.  I respect you and your posts a great deal.  But I’ll stand by my posts that you can lead a horse to water. But you can’t make him drink ( pardon the pun ).  He has to choose to.   I have no illusions that everyone can quit cold turkey.  But they have to take the baby steps if that’s what it takes.  Some people refuse to do that.  Which is a choice.

Look.  I know this is a multi angled and touchy subject. I’m trying very very hard not to come off as talking down to anyone.  I know that’s how I sound sometimes on any subject , especially one like this.    As I’ve said , I’ve been in this since birth.  Not by choice.  I could tell you things that would absolutely disgust  you that I saw my dad do.  He wasn’t drunk all the time.  Not even every day.  Just Bender’s  of rage.  And I’ll never see it as anything but a choice he made.  Period.  We have to take responsibility for every other action in life one way or another.     I see the “ I couldn’t help it “ idea as skating that responsibility ( yet again ).    I just don’t think I’ll live long enough to see it any other way.     I’m sorry for that opinion.  I know before I say it that it may offend.  I’m just trying to explain genuinely my thoughts on the subject.

Fair enough. Of course it’s a decision. What I’m saying is that’s often not enough. And to be sure some people live their entire life without much of an effort to change.

I have often thought about to what extent my sobriety was a decision on my part. Absolutely. Like I said, necessary but not sufficient.

As to your dad... wow.

I wasn’t offended. I just wanted to illustrate the dilemma.

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#196 bladehunter

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 02:39 PM

Mr. Blake-( too many posts to quote...tooo dumb to edit them out..lol)


totally get that .... such a terrible topic...but a useful conversation... I appreciate those who can have it and remain friendly... in that  i include myself because i know that its an easy one to take off the rails into anger filled opinionated rant.. .. as much as i detest those with no want for change of life... Ill be the biggest cheerleader on earth for those that did/do seek change...  God bless you for fighting the fight every day .
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