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I love Tiger and this US Open was great to watch him overcome his knee. I'm not sure where this ranks in sports all-time " gutsy " perfomances. I would put Hogan's Merion Open above this one. Maybe Venturi's win. In the world of sports you have to hand it to Lance Armstrong for winning the Tour de France after beating cancer. With Tiger having world-class modern medicine at his disposal, I'm not sure how I feel about this one. It adds to his lore for sure, but I'm not so sure the knee was as big a factor as played up. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Where does this rank?
Tiger overcomes adversity
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#1
Posted 17 June 2008 - 03:08 AM
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#2
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Posted 17 June 2008 - 04:46 AM
Good question mate.
As for overcoming adversity, I'm not so sure. Tiger is a valuable commodity and I believe that if his knee was that bad, he would've been advised not to play. Nike, Buick, AmEx etc would rather he sat this one out than cause any long term damage.
I'm certainly not saying that he was faking the pain. I'm merely pointing out that I don't think he was in an unbearable state.
Having said that, yesterdays 19 hole play off was a gutsy performance (injury or not). The gutsiest of all time? No, not for me. Steve Redgrave, Jesse Owens, Lance Armstrong etc have all overcome different types of adversity to reach the pinnacle of their more physically demanding sports.
As for overcoming adversity, I'm not so sure. Tiger is a valuable commodity and I believe that if his knee was that bad, he would've been advised not to play. Nike, Buick, AmEx etc would rather he sat this one out than cause any long term damage.
I'm certainly not saying that he was faking the pain. I'm merely pointing out that I don't think he was in an unbearable state.
Having said that, yesterdays 19 hole play off was a gutsy performance (injury or not). The gutsiest of all time? No, not for me. Steve Redgrave, Jesse Owens, Lance Armstrong etc have all overcome different types of adversity to reach the pinnacle of their more physically demanding sports.
#3
Posted 17 June 2008 - 05:36 AM
His knee, as far as i can tell, didn't directly affect his capabilities of hitting the ball. He said numerous times that he only felt pain after making contact. So if it didn't bother him before the shot, this was more of a mental boundary to cross. Maybe it's best to compare it to slamming your head on your desk so hard that you'll hurt yourself pretty well.
I think the mental aspect is worse than the pain itself, being able to predict the pain caused by your own actions.
The comparison of him against other greats in their fields doesn't work. It doesn't work for this performance with the pain, or just in general. Golf is not a physical game like most sports. Tiger makes it physical, but the sport itself isn't physical. It's like comparing rugby to snooker.
The domination in a sports category is something else though. Tiger is probably the most dominant athlete in sports right now, and might someday become the most dominant ever.
Besides, Lance Armstrong did indeed battle testicular cancer, but so did my dad and he's never been in better shape in his life. It's something you overcome, it's hard, but once it's dealth with, you can return to the physique you had before (or if you train hard, even better).
I've turned my back on pro cycling a few years ago (and i'm belgian, we live for pro cycling). It has become the most unreliable sport in the world.
I think the mental aspect is worse than the pain itself, being able to predict the pain caused by your own actions.
The comparison of him against other greats in their fields doesn't work. It doesn't work for this performance with the pain, or just in general. Golf is not a physical game like most sports. Tiger makes it physical, but the sport itself isn't physical. It's like comparing rugby to snooker.
The domination in a sports category is something else though. Tiger is probably the most dominant athlete in sports right now, and might someday become the most dominant ever.
Besides, Lance Armstrong did indeed battle testicular cancer, but so did my dad and he's never been in better shape in his life. It's something you overcome, it's hard, but once it's dealth with, you can return to the physique you had before (or if you train hard, even better).
I've turned my back on pro cycling a few years ago (and i'm belgian, we live for pro cycling). It has become the most unreliable sport in the world.
#4
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Posted 17 June 2008 - 05:43 AM
I am not so much as inclined to believe Tiger ALWAYS overcomes adversity, I think others CAVE IN a whole lot as well. He is the man though.
#5 Gallery_Tenementrock_*
Posted 17 June 2008 - 10:04 AM
This was probably Tiger's hardest fought major championship win. Winning the national championship on a home course of sorts, that makes it special as well. The first Masters, US and British Open titles were all special in their own right, but they didn't have the drama and uncertainty of this one, not to mention the array of spectacular hole-outs.
Tiger Woods deserves a lot of props for this win. Any US Open champ would, but since it's Woods we tend to overlook the sheer magnitude of the achievement. People tend to think he is robotic, and automatic, but he really proved his guts this time around. Injury or no, he still had to overcome FOUR doubles and a bunch of single bogeys as well. Any other player and that's way too far over par to win a US Open. He may not have displayed the consistency you would expect to need for this tournament, but he did show that he's the gutsiest golfer in the world today. Over 91 holes he definitely had worrisome moments, even teetered on the brink of losing NUMEROUS times, but never, ever gave up or let some bad shots affect his belief that he could win.
As far as memorable shots go, the putt on the 72nd might go down as Tiger's biggest ever. Terrific reaction, to me it just shows that he is a kid at heart - he may grind all day with all the seriousness of a special ops fighter but after making a big putt like that he shows you that, even with all the billions and worldwide fame, he hasn't really changed. Still that kid who lives to play golf and to beat everyone around him.
Tiger Woods deserves a lot of props for this win. Any US Open champ would, but since it's Woods we tend to overlook the sheer magnitude of the achievement. People tend to think he is robotic, and automatic, but he really proved his guts this time around. Injury or no, he still had to overcome FOUR doubles and a bunch of single bogeys as well. Any other player and that's way too far over par to win a US Open. He may not have displayed the consistency you would expect to need for this tournament, but he did show that he's the gutsiest golfer in the world today. Over 91 holes he definitely had worrisome moments, even teetered on the brink of losing NUMEROUS times, but never, ever gave up or let some bad shots affect his belief that he could win.
As far as memorable shots go, the putt on the 72nd might go down as Tiger's biggest ever. Terrific reaction, to me it just shows that he is a kid at heart - he may grind all day with all the seriousness of a special ops fighter but after making a big putt like that he shows you that, even with all the billions and worldwide fame, he hasn't really changed. Still that kid who lives to play golf and to beat everyone around him.
#6
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Posted 17 June 2008 - 10:28 AM
more than the pain, tigers knee kept him from playing and preparing as much as hed like for the us open. coming in and winning after not playing tournament golf for a few months and practicing only a fraction of what other players were able to was more impressive IMO than the pain he felt after some shots. i mean i think we can all agree tiger didnt have his A-game this week, maybe not even his B-game...he missed more fairways and greens than i have ever, and probably will ever, see a US Open champion miss. this win comes down to his sheer will...his unbelievable ability to will that ball into the hole and make things happen. He grinded out this open without his best, and thats the most impressive thing about this win to me. 
#7
Posted 17 June 2008 - 01:35 PM
I'm neither a Tiger detractor nor unabashed fan.
Looked to me like he made one more longish putt that the other guy missed.
Since that's not nearly as good a story as "Tiger overcomes tremendous knee problems for the greatest win ever ever ever" you could guess that the latter story was the one pushed by the industry that surrounds him, and that he has helped create. What was the Golf Channel and Bob Costas gonna do, say "Nice win, Champ. Ya playin' at the Buick in July?" No, they bought The Story and had to follow it through.
Looked to me like he made one more longish putt that the other guy missed.
Since that's not nearly as good a story as "Tiger overcomes tremendous knee problems for the greatest win ever ever ever" you could guess that the latter story was the one pushed by the industry that surrounds him, and that he has helped create. What was the Golf Channel and Bob Costas gonna do, say "Nice win, Champ. Ya playin' at the Buick in July?" No, they bought The Story and had to follow it through.
#8
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Posted 17 June 2008 - 01:39 PM
villa, on Jun 17 2008, 02:46 AM, said:
Good question mate.
As for overcoming adversity, I'm not so sure. Tiger is a valuable commodity and I believe that if his knee was that bad, he would've been advised not to play. Nike, Buick, AmEx etc would rather he sat this one out than cause any long term damage.
I'm certainly not saying that he was faking the pain. I'm merely pointing out that I don't think he was in an unbearable state.
Having said that, yesterdays 19 hole play off was a gutsy performance (injury or not). The gutsiest of all time? No, not for me. Steve Redgrave, Jesse Owens, Lance Armstrong etc have all overcome different types of adversity to reach the pinnacle of their more physically demanding sports.
As for overcoming adversity, I'm not so sure. Tiger is a valuable commodity and I believe that if his knee was that bad, he would've been advised not to play. Nike, Buick, AmEx etc would rather he sat this one out than cause any long term damage.
I'm certainly not saying that he was faking the pain. I'm merely pointing out that I don't think he was in an unbearable state.
Having said that, yesterdays 19 hole play off was a gutsy performance (injury or not). The gutsiest of all time? No, not for me. Steve Redgrave, Jesse Owens, Lance Armstrong etc have all overcome different types of adversity to reach the pinnacle of their more physically demanding sports.
Tiger's inner circle can advise him not to play all they want, ultimately it is Tiger's decision whether to play or not after all things are taken into consideration. He did say that his doctor did not recommend him playing but that he's not good at following doctor's orders.
#9
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Posted 17 June 2008 - 01:43 PM
Under99, on Jun 17 2008, 11:35 AM, said:
I'm neither a Tiger detractor nor unabashed fan.
Looked to me like he made one more longish putt that the other guy missed.
Since that's not nearly as good a story as "Tiger overcomes tremendous knee problems for the greatest win ever ever ever" you could guess that the latter story was the one pushed by the industry that surrounds him, and that he has helped create. What was the Golf Channel and Bob Costas gonna do, say "Nice win, Champ. Ya playin' at the Buick in July?" No, they bought The Story and had to follow it through.
Looked to me like he made one more longish putt that the other guy missed.
Since that's not nearly as good a story as "Tiger overcomes tremendous knee problems for the greatest win ever ever ever" you could guess that the latter story was the one pushed by the industry that surrounds him, and that he has helped create. What was the Golf Channel and Bob Costas gonna do, say "Nice win, Champ. Ya playin' at the Buick in July?" No, they bought The Story and had to follow it through.
You can talk about the putts made and putts misses in just about everyone's rounds, it can go for just about everyone.
I was there on the 18th green when Tiger needed birdie on Sunday to force the playoff and making that 12 feet putt, it was one of the most amazing experiences I've had.
I really think Tiger just wants it more than anyone else in the field and he would will the ball into the hole when it absolutely means the most.
#10
Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:39 AM
Since, in my view, it came down to putting, I'm not seeing how it was gutsy it was, or how he wanted it more. I think, actually, the opposite: Rocco is focusing on how much he wants it, and misses his putt. Tiger is focusing on whether the green flattens out at the hole, or continues turning, and makes his putt.
I find it interesting that, if Tiger's putt is 1/16th of an inch to the right on 18, or if it hit a ball mark, we'd be talking about how Rocco stared down the world's greatest player. Rocco needn't have done anything differently, yet our analysis would change considerably.
I find it interesting that, if Tiger's putt is 1/16th of an inch to the right on 18, or if it hit a ball mark, we'd be talking about how Rocco stared down the world's greatest player. Rocco needn't have done anything differently, yet our analysis would change considerably.
#11
Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:48 AM
That, my friend, is the story of life ... 
I've played almost every single round of golf this year in the mid 80's of even better. That is when i count in all the "if's" of those rounds. "If i had just waited when i heard that noise, instead of trying to block it out and hit the shot anyway", "If my ball was 1mm more to the left it wouldn't have hit that branch and would have been on perfect" etc.
The problem with Tiger is, those "If's" tend do become reality very very very often. It's not just this time, it's almost every time. I do believe in luck, but i do also believe that luck comes easier when you create the circumstances in which it is more likely to happen more often.
I've played almost every single round of golf this year in the mid 80's of even better. That is when i count in all the "if's" of those rounds. "If i had just waited when i heard that noise, instead of trying to block it out and hit the shot anyway", "If my ball was 1mm more to the left it wouldn't have hit that branch and would have been on perfect" etc.
The problem with Tiger is, those "If's" tend do become reality very very very often. It's not just this time, it's almost every time. I do believe in luck, but i do also believe that luck comes easier when you create the circumstances in which it is more likely to happen more often.
#12
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Posted 18 June 2008 - 08:53 AM
No one ran away with this tournament, and Tiger stayed in the mix. Tiger's biggest adversities were the players who relentlessly kept scoring when they needed to, most of all Rocco Mediate.
I didn't hear Tiger making excuses, or even complaining all weekend. He cut short questions about his knee. I wouldn't believe others' accounts of how they "think" Tiger felt or how healthy his knee is. Obviously, he was in pain, but he sure isn't using that as an excuse for not winning by more strokes. As usual, he made the shots he needed to make at the right times.
If he'd lost, I doubt very much he would have copped to his knee. I think he would have given credit to Rocco.
I didn't hear Tiger making excuses, or even complaining all weekend. He cut short questions about his knee. I wouldn't believe others' accounts of how they "think" Tiger felt or how healthy his knee is. Obviously, he was in pain, but he sure isn't using that as an excuse for not winning by more strokes. As usual, he made the shots he needed to make at the right times.
If he'd lost, I doubt very much he would have copped to his knee. I think he would have given credit to Rocco.
#13
Posted 18 June 2008 - 11:14 AM
I don't believe Tiger's win was due to luck, actually, just the opposite: his cold-blooded analysis of the stroke that he had to put on the ball to get it into the hole.
My comment was about our analysis.
My comment was about our analysis.
#14
Posted 18 June 2008 - 11:21 AM
Yeah... As I'm sure you all have heard, Tiger won with a stress fracture in his tibia, so even if his knee wasn't "that bad"(wtf?), he did it with a bad leg period... But seriously... Are some of you people kidding me? The guy is incredible, and while Hogan's and Lance Armstrong's victories are probably a little more gutsy, just accept the fact that Tiger is good enough to beat your entire course playing best ball all by himself... on one leg.
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