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Cause of broken adapter? Pics inside.


36 replies to this topic

#1 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:38 AM

On the 3rd swing with this shaft, I felt the head swing around about 180 degrees and looked down to see this:

Posted Image


Is this the result of a bad tip? It looks like the inside somehow came outside? That black  "stuff" between the adapter and whatever that is on the bottom isn't epoxy, that's like a plastic material or something.

This is how a normal adapter looks, for reference:
Posted Image


I was able to tap the tip of the white shaft on the floor a bunch of times and got that bottom portion back inside the adapter. Obviously not going to use, but trying to determine root cause. Bad adapter? Bad epoxy application?

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#2 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 06:48 AM

Pull it all the way off and see where the hardened epoxy is located - on the shaft tip or on the adapter interior or both.

Not familiar with that particular adapter (cobra?) so can't say whether that piece is supposed to come loose or not - but either way I would think it would take some type of failure with the glue joint first for that to happen. The more common cause is a poor adhesion to the inside of the adapter (too smooth or possibly some contaminant from the manufacturing process) in which case most of the cured epoxy will be on the shaft tip, nd very little to the inside of the adapter.

Edited by Stuart G., 14 January 2019 - 06:48 AM.


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#3 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 07:52 AM

View PostStuart G., on 14 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

Pull it all the way off and see where the hardened epoxy is located - on the shaft tip or on the adapter interior or both.

Not familiar with that particular adapter (cobra?) so can't say whether that piece is supposed to come loose or not - but either way I would think it would take some type of failure with the glue joint first for that to happen. The more common cause is a poor adhesion to the inside of the adapter (too smooth or possibly some contaminant from the manufacturing process) in which case most of the cured epoxy will be on the shaft tip, nd very little to the inside of the adapter.
Well I'd like to think I did the job correctly, but you never know. That day I did this shaft, plus 3 others (none of which have failed) and I've done... maybe 3-4 other shafts so far in the past month or two.

That adapter I got on eBay so maybe it's not the proper OEM one. I usually don't buy the cheap Chinese stuff but maybe this slipped through. I wonder when I pull the tip off if the whole thing will come off or if it will break at that little joint. I have no idea what that is...
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#4 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:14 AM

Did you do anything to prep the interior of the adapter?   Cleaning or sanding or roughening up the surface of the adapter bore?

Most of the time it's not necessary and one can get a very good adhesion between the glue and the adapter bore w/o any special prep of the adapter.  But every once in a while, for a few potential reasons, no matter how good a job you did mixing the epoxy, prepping the shaft, etc...  the glue just doesn't want to stick to the smooth surface of the adapter bore.   This doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether or not it's an OEM or aftermarket, or knock-off adapter.

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#5 rybo

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:23 AM

Was the ID of the adapter cleaned before installation?  Possibly a bit of oil/coolant left inside from the final bore drilling.

Measure the ID to see if it's a .350" bore.

As already mentioned, rough up the surface of the bore. The epoxy works better when it has something to bond on to.


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#6 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

To those asking how I prepped - I quickly stuck my little tool inside that has rough bristles on the end of it, although I don't know if that really "roughs" the surface up any. Then, I take q tips that have been doused in acetone, and wipe all on the inside. To actually bond the shaft and adapter, I coat the inside of adapter using a tiny popsickle stick (light coating, I don't just fill the inside up) then I roll the prepped shaft tip in the epoxy, stick in...wipe off excess, align the shaft graphics, let sit for 24hour.

And FWIW, I'm using the 2 part Tour Set epoxy from Golf Works.
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#7 jvincent

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:33 AM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:


Is this the result of a bad tip? It looks like the inside somehow came outside? That black  "stuff" between the adapter and whatever that is on the bottom isn't epoxy, that's like a plastic material or something.

... snip ...

I was able to tap the tip of the white shaft on the floor a bunch of times and got that bottom portion back inside the adapter. Obviously not going to use, but trying to determine root cause. Bad adapter? Bad epoxy application?

The top of the Cobra adapters have some extra room so what you are seeing is a "ring" of epoxy.

The most likely cause is either a bad epoxy mix or something got onto the the inside of the adapter and it didn't bond properly.

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#8 jvincent

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:35 AM

Just read your last post.

Are you using pure acetone? Are you sure the inside was dry? I always use some clean sandpaper as my last step to make sure there is nothing left inside the hosel.

I've never used the Tour Set epoxy. 24 hour for me.

I've re-shafted a LOT of Cobra adapters and never had that happen.

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#9 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:36 AM

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

Is this the result of a bad tip? It looks like the inside somehow came outside? That black  "stuff" between the adapter and whatever that is on the bottom isn't epoxy, that's like a plastic material or something.

... snip ...

I was able to tap the tip of the white shaft on the floor a bunch of times and got that bottom portion back inside the adapter. Obviously not going to use, but trying to determine root cause. Bad adapter? Bad epoxy application?

The top of the Cobra adapters have some extra room so what you are seeing is a "ring" of epoxy.

The most likely cause is either a bad epoxy mix or something got onto the the inside of the adapter and it didn't bond properly.
Interesting. I've never seen epoxy look that smooth before.

Will removing the tip risk damage? Any special steps to consider since there's possible risk of breaking the shaft tip off inside?
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#10 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:39 AM

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Just read your last post.

Are you using pure acetone? Are you sure the inside was dry? I always use some clean sandpaper as my last step to make sure there is nothing left inside the hosel.

I've never used the Tour Set epoxy. 24 hour for me.

I've re-shafted a LOT of Cobra adapters and never had that happen.
Pure acetone, yep. Brand new adapter on a brand new shaft. I didn't use sand paper but rather a stiff bristled brush that is on a drill bit. I ream the inside for a few seconds, then acetone again. I also acetone the shaft tip and let it all dry for about 30 seconds, then proceed to mix epoxy and apply.

I've done two 3w shafts, another driver shaft and 3 or 4 wedges this year already doing a similar method. I wonder if maybe I prepped the shaft a bit too much and maybe the OD of the shaft was a touch too small.

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#11 jvincent

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:41 AM

If it fails to bond to the hosel it will look like that when it comes off. I had an old driver slide off once that looked like that due to an improperly cleaned hosel.

If it has come that far off you should be able to pull it off without any heat. Do you have a shaft puller?

Once you've got it off, just remove the epoxy from the tip of the shaft, make sure the inside of the adapter is properly prepped, and try again. I'd use the 24 hour epoxy this time.

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#12 jvincent

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:43 AM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Just read your last post.

Are you using pure acetone? Are you sure the inside was dry? I always use some clean sandpaper as my last step to make sure there is nothing left inside the hosel.

I've never used the Tour Set epoxy. 24 hour for me.

I've re-shafted a LOT of Cobra adapters and never had that happen.
I didn't use sand paper but rather a stiff bristled brush that is on a drill bit. I ream the inside for a few seconds, then acetone again.


The brush on the drill bit is probably the issue. The adapter are aluminum so you are most likely polishing the inside smooth vs roughing it up.

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#13 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:51 AM

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:43 AM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Just read your last post.

Are you using pure acetone? Are you sure the inside was dry? I always use some clean sandpaper as my last step to make sure there is nothing left inside the hosel.

I've never used the Tour Set epoxy. 24 hour for me.

I've re-shafted a LOT of Cobra adapters and never had that happen.
I didn't use sand paper but rather a stiff bristled brush that is on a drill bit. I ream the inside for a few seconds, then acetone again.


The brush on the drill bit is probably the issue. The adapter are aluminum so you are most likely polishing the inside smooth vs roughing it up.
Not sure on the material.

So best to use maybe some 80 grit sand paper then?

And I use the tour set stuff from golf works, looks like gel time is 30 minutes, cure time around 4-6. What epoxy do you suggest then?
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#14 jvincent

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:56 AM

80 grit should be fine. Roll it into a tube and then rough up the inside by hand.

I use this epoxy from Golfworks.  https://www.golfworks.ca/golfworks-epoxy-8oz/p/epx/

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#15 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

Thank you sir. And I do not have a graphite puller. I send them to a buddy who does it then sends back. I mostly do steel pulls on my own, but I obviously can do new shaft installs, or pulls that I put new adapters on.

I'd get a puller but I don't have the room for one. My "work bench" is currently my stove. The joys of an 800sqft condo with no basement.

Edit:

Just checked the shear strength of the tour set 2:1, and it's listed as 4500psi. The EZ Pour 24hr cure stuff was 3280. Is the bonding strength an indication of how good the epoxy is? If so, I'd imagine then I just didn't do the best job getting the adapter prepped right, so my epoxy mixture wasn't set in the right ratio.

Edited by Z1ggy16, 14 January 2019 - 12:31 PM.

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#16 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:35 AM

Also, here's a question I've thought of:

What is the ideal diameter/fit of a shaft into a bore. Ie, how much smaller should the shaft be than the hosel bore? Assuming that the bore of the adapter is .335, would I want to prep the shaft down to .330? I always wondered what the effect of bonding was when you have a shaft that fits the bore (say .333), but maybe there's "too much" shaft so when you install it presses much of the epoxy out? And same with too low of an OD on the shaft... Too much epoxy and the shaft might not be centered or bond too brittle (<.320, etc).
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#17 jvincent

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 12:34 PM

I've never measured a prepped shaft, but really all you want to do is take the paint off.

Depending on the shaft, many will stick in the hosel with the paint on and then will fully insert with the paint removed. That's the best case scenario.

If the shaft has a lot of play in the adapter then some shafting beads are in order.

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#18 SwingBlues

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:58 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Just read your last post.

Are you using pure acetone? Are you sure the inside was dry? I always use some clean sandpaper as my last step to make sure there is nothing left inside the hosel.

I've never used the Tour Set epoxy. 24 hour for me.

I've re-shafted a LOT of Cobra adapters and never had that happen.
Pure acetone, yep. Brand new adapter on a brand new shaft. I didn't use sand paper but rather a stiff bristled brush that is on a drill bit. I ream the inside for a few seconds, then acetone again. I also acetone the shaft tip and let it all dry for about 30 seconds, then proceed to mix epoxy and apply.

I've done two 3w shafts, another driver shaft and 3 or 4 wedges this year already doing a similar method. I wonder if maybe I prepped the shaft a bit too much and maybe the OD of the shaft was a touch too small.

That's my prep step as well. One thing I also do is to "spin" the adapter when it's on the shaft. By spinning it, you're moving the inside epoxy around, fill in any uneven spaces and ensuing an even coating. Don't just shove it in.

Did you also keep the leftover epoxy from the job (that you mixed)? You should. Let is dry along with your shaft/adapter and check the texture. Should be solid and you can leave your fingerprint on it. That's your check that you mixed it right.

Hope this helps.

oh i would also use a dry cotton swab and swab it inside the adapter to ensure all the acetone is gone.
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#19 wkuo3

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 12:25 AM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 07:52 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 14 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

Pull it all the way off and see where the hardened epoxy is located - on the shaft tip or on the adapter interior or both.

Not familiar with that particular adapter (cobra?) so can't say whether that piece is supposed to come loose or not - but either way I would think it would take some type of failure with the glue joint first for that to happen. The more common cause is a poor adhesion to the inside of the adapter (too smooth or possibly some contaminant from the manufacturing process) in which case most of the cured epoxy will be on the shaft tip, nd very little to the inside of the adapter.
Well I'd like to think I did the job correctly, but you never know. That day I did this shaft, plus 3 others (none of which have failed) and I've done... maybe 3-4 other shafts so far in the past month or two.

That adapter I got on eBay so maybe it's not the proper OEM one. I usually don't buy the cheap Chinese stuff but maybe this slipped through. I wonder when I pull the tip off if the whole thing will come off or if it will break at that little joint. I have no idea what that is...


Interesting !  First. I want you to know that I.m not familiar with this issue  / the adaptor in use.

However, if I were to trouble shoot from the pictures provided.  The slipped out looked like a plastic sleeve.
seller could use a sleeve inside the .35 hosel bore for the .335 tip.  contact the seller to see if this is the case.
If the plastic sleeve were used, just pul out as much as you could epoxy it before push back.  Proper epoxy will hold the pieces together but the sleeve will not be reusable.

Edited by wkuo3, 15 January 2019 - 12:26 AM.


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#20 jvincent

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

None of the Cobra adapters, OEM or aftermarket, I have seen ever came with sleeves and I've only ever seen them offered in .335.

I'm 100% sure it's just the epoxy "collar" I mentioned earlier.


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#21 Z1ggy16

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 10:32 AM

View PostSwingBlues, on 14 January 2019 - 11:58 PM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 January 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postjvincent, on 14 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Just read your last post.

Are you using pure acetone? Are you sure the inside was dry? I always use some clean sandpaper as my last step to make sure there is nothing left inside the hosel.

I've never used the Tour Set epoxy. 24 hour for me.

I've re-shafted a LOT of Cobra adapters and never had that happen.
Pure acetone, yep. Brand new adapter on a brand new shaft. I didn't use sand paper but rather a stiff bristled brush that is on a drill bit. I ream the inside for a few seconds, then acetone again. I also acetone the shaft tip and let it all dry for about 30 seconds, then proceed to mix epoxy and apply.

I've done two 3w shafts, another driver shaft and 3 or 4 wedges this year already doing a similar method. I wonder if maybe I prepped the shaft a bit too much and maybe the OD of the shaft was a touch too small.

That's my prep step as well. One thing I also do is to "spin" the adapter when it's on the shaft. By spinning it, you're moving the inside epoxy around, fill in any uneven spaces and ensuing an even coating. Don't just shove it in.

Did you also keep the leftover epoxy from the job (that you mixed)? You should. Let is dry along with your shaft/adapter and check the texture. Should be solid and you can leave your fingerprint on it. That's your check that you mixed it right.

Hope this helps.

oh i would also use a dry cotton swab and swab it inside the adapter to ensure all the acetone is gone.
Good point about spinning it around. I only wiggled it around a little bit side to side, but not a full 360 revolution. I do let the epoxy dry alongside the club. I stick my popsickle stick in it and when I cant move the stick at all (and it obviously looks cured) I know the club is good to go. Either way I always wait 24hours.
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#22 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 11:03 AM

It’s a bad adapter.

There is no “sleeve” inside a cobra adapter.  At first glance I thought you used a ferrule for the installation.  If that’s not a ferrule above the adapter body you definitely have a crap adapter.

The cobra adapters are solid aluminum all the way to the top. There is no separate piece  to “slip” like that.

Heat it, pull it, throw it away and get a real one.
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22

#23 Socrates

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    How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn?

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 11:05 AM

Fundamentally, you are doing most things correctly.  For epoxy to harden but not adhere to the inside of the hosel, there is only one answer: the hosel wall wasn't clean enough or too smooth for the epoxy to bond.  Prep and clean both surfaces again and re-epoxy.  The only thing I would do differently is rotate the shaft in the hosel once the epoxy has been applied.

I would do as Jag said.  Get a new adaptor and start fresh.
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#24 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 11:15 AM

I HAVE seen small rubber/plastic sleeves (1/16" max) at the top of SOME Cobra adapters, but not all of them. Never seen one the size of that thing in the OP's pic. They always come out when the shaft is pulled and I have reused the adapters without them. This could be something someone did to replace the original, but the obvious problem is the bond did not take. Also, Cobra has not made the My-Fly 8 in .350 ever.

BT

Edited by Ri_Redneck, 15 January 2019 - 11:17 AM.

Bag 1
F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
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Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
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24

#25 Z1ggy16

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 January 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

It’s a bad adapter.

There is no “sleeve” inside a cobra adapter.  At first glance I thought you used a ferrule for the installation.  If that’s not a ferrule above the adapter body you definitely have a crap adapter.

The cobra adapters are solid aluminum all the way to the top. There is no separate piece  to “slip” like that.

Heat it, pull it, throw it away and get a real one.
I didn't use a ferrule...Just bought it off eBay. Guess I'll pony up for the $20 one off Cobra website, so I know I'm not getting garbage. I'm just thankful it didn't snap my brand new $140 shaft.

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#26 Z1ggy16

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 11:21 AM

View PostRi_Redneck, on 15 January 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

I HAVE seen small rubber/plastic sleeves (1/16" max) at the top of SOME Cobra adapters, but not all of them. Never seen one the size of that thing in the OP's pic. They always come out when the shaft is pulled and I have reused the adapters without them. This could be something someone did to replace the original, but the obvious problem is the bond did not take. Also, Cobra has not made the My-Fly 8 in .350 ever.

BT
Brand new shaft, brand new adapter, so..not applicable. As far as I could tell there wasn't a sleeve or collar inside this. Just a straight bore, all AL.
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26

#27 SwingBlues

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:22 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 15 January 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

I didn't use a ferrule...Just bought it off eBay. Guess I'll pony up for the $20 one off Cobra website, so I know I'm not getting garbage. I'm just thankful it didn't snap my brand new $140 shaft.

Could be worse, damage your driver head. I've come across the fake Ping G/G30 adapters that have "oysters" that were too big to fit in the Ping driver head. Big talk about it on the Ping adapter thread, avoid, avoid, avoid. I get my adapters from GolfWorks now or very carefully from well know ebay sources like willspeople. Live & learn :)
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Honma 737 13* 3 wood, Vizard A 50S shaft
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Directed Force Reno "2.05" with BGT Stability shaft (Presse V tweaked)


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27

#28 MooJersey

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:51 PM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 January 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

It’s a bad adapter.

There is no “sleeve” inside a cobra adapter.  At first glance I thought you used a ferrule for the installation.  If that’s not a ferrule above the adapter body you definitely have a crap adapter.

The cobra adapters are solid aluminum all the way to the top. There is no separate piece  to “slip” like that.

Heat it, pull it, throw it away and get a real one.

Yeah it looks like a fake Chinese adapter.  I could be wrong, but I don't think any real Cobra adapters go down to 7*.

The real F8+ only goes down to 8*
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28

#29 jvincent

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:55 PM

View PostMooJersey, on 15 January 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 January 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

It’s a bad adapter.

There is no “sleeve” inside a cobra adapter.  At first glance I thought you used a ferrule for the installation.  If that’s not a ferrule above the adapter body you definitely have a crap adapter.

The cobra adapters are solid aluminum all the way to the top. There is no separate piece  to “slip” like that.

Heat it, pull it, throw it away and get a real one.

Yeah it looks like a fake Chinese adapter.  I could be wrong, but I don't think any real Cobra adapters go down to 7*.

The real F8+ only goes down to 8*

The LTD Pro went that low.

For those that aren't aware, the aftermarket adapters are flat where the screw enters the adapter. OEM Cobra adapters are concave.

29

#30 Z1ggy16

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 02:12 PM

View Postjvincent, on 15 January 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

View PostMooJersey, on 15 January 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 January 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

It’s a bad adapter.

There is no “sleeve” inside a cobra adapter.  At first glance I thought you used a ferrule for the installation.  If that’s not a ferrule above the adapter body you definitely have a crap adapter.

The cobra adapters are solid aluminum all the way to the top. There is no separate piece  to “slip” like that.

Heat it, pull it, throw it away and get a real one.

Yeah it looks like a fake Chinese adapter.  I could be wrong, but I don't think any real Cobra adapters go down to 7*.

The real F8+ only goes down to 8*

The LTD Pro went that low.

For those that aren't aware, the aftermarket adapters are flat where the screw enters the adapter. OEM Cobra adapters are concave.

Yeah this is the LTD pro adapter... in my LTD pro head.

I will check if the tapped hole area is flat or concave when I get home. Now I am nervous because I used the same exact adapter for my Kiyoshi HB.

WITB
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