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Putting Technique: breaking wrists


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#1 skajaquada77

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:42 PM

So I have been watching the Shell’s Wonderful World of Golf lately, very curious about the putting technique that I saw Chi Chi and company using, hitting the ball with a breaking-wrist motion instead of the modern quiet-wrist and pendulum motion. Does anybody here still use that technique? Were those putters balanced the same way as modern putters?


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#2 Socrates

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:06 PM

Virtually no one uses that technique any more.  You have to remember that the greens back then were anything but smooth and if you were to Stimp them, they commonly would be slower than 8' at the best of times.  The 'stroke' they used was designed to pop the ball out of the little depression it sat in and get it rolling (well, bouncing) on top of the grass.  There really has been no need to have this kind of 'stroke' for decades as the greens are like table tops now.  Unless you go to home course of the CPG.

Balanced?  Not in the slightest.
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#3 Chris122

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:59 PM

Have wondered the same after SWWOG and All Star Golf with Arnie and Frank Stranahan.
I remember being told that 'short back and long through' was a good stroke and I'm not convinced that is out of place today in terms of golf in the UK where we're playing on longer greens at this time of year and even in the summer on fast running seaside greens where the 'modern' stroke is liable to lead to deceleration and quitting on the stroke which never happens with 'short and long'.
I recently watched a video on one of my favourite YT channels where the pro gave a tip for holing more putts of 4' to 6' distance using the pendulum stroke but on close viewing you could see him slow the putter down before impact and the following day on my home course I was putting at twice the distance but only using half the 'backswing' that he had employed and with reasonable success.
I like the shorter stroke because it promotes a positive and more accurate strike on the ball as the putter is travelling a shorter distance,the big difference would be that I don't hinge the wrist.

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#4 Socrates

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:37 PM

The more common method today is constant sped through the hitting zone.  No deceleration and no acceleration.  There are some that still put with a short pop stroke which I assume accelerates through the ball. Snedeker for example.  Whatever gets the ball into the hole more often.
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#5 BIG STU

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:52 PM

Soc basically nailed it with both posts.

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#6 sheldonjhacker

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:56 PM

the ONLY putting thought I have is FIRM wrists.  And it works for me. :nyam:

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#7 hnryclay

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 09:34 PM

I used to use the Nicklaus crouch but did not break my wrists. Now I use the claw style taking put my right hand completly, although still using vintage putters. Back then it seems like every player had thier own style.

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#8 No Catchy Nickname

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:57 PM

I like to feel I am "bowling" the putter with the right hand, but I have to avoid flipping with the wrists as it doesn't end well for me if I get wristy.

Isao Aoki is another pro who was very wristy. He still putts the way he used to, with the ball quite far away from him and the toe putting up.
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#9 skajaquada77

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:02 AM

Watching the Seve - Johnny Miller duel at the 1976 Open at Royal Birkdale, Seve crouches over the ball, but his wrists seemed pretty firm... he only breaks his wrists a tiny bit on very long putts, but thats probably still the case for anybody playing links courses or 30+ feet putts. I wonder when they started changing the putting technique? Late 60s/early 70s?

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#10 Socrates

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 10:15 AM

View Postskajaquada77, on 13 January 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

Watching the Seve - Johnny Miller duel at the 1976 Open at Royal Birkdale, Seve crouches over the ball, but his wrists seemed pretty firm... he only breaks his wrists a tiny bit on very long putts, but thats probably still the case for anybody playing links courses or 30+ feet putts. I wonder when they started changing the putting technique? Late 60s/early 70s?
Somewhere in around that time frame.  Greens agronomy started to get much better and also was the end of the Arnold Palmer era.  Coincidence?  Tom Watson was likely the Poster Child for the 'new' putting technique.

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#11 skajaquada77

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

View PostSocrates, on 13 January 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

View Postskajaquada77, on 13 January 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

Watching the Seve - Johnny Miller duel at the 1976 Open at Royal Birkdale, Seve crouches over the ball, but his wrists seemed pretty firm... he only breaks his wrists a tiny bit on very long putts, but thats probably still the case for anybody playing links courses or 30+ feet putts. I wonder when they started changing the putting technique? Late 60s/early 70s?
Somewhere in around that time frame.  Greens agronomy started to get much better and also was the end of the Arnold Palmer era.  Coincidence?  Tom Watson was likely the Poster Child for the 'new' putting technique.

Thanks for all your answers and for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated!

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#12 Chris122

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:12 PM

Bob Charles used a firm wristed putting stroke which helped him win the '63 Open Championship and is also evident in his match against Bob Goalby on SWWOG from 1962,his choice of weapon was a Bullseye.
Improved agronomy might have had some part to play but there was also a a marked difference in choice of putters and grips.
Acushnet bought out Reuters in 1962 the same time that Ray Cook brought out the M1 and 1966 the Ping Anser emerged.

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#13 Socrates

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:57 PM

View Postskajaquada77, on 13 January 2019 - 03:51 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 13 January 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

View Postskajaquada77, on 13 January 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

Watching the Seve - Johnny Miller duel at the 1976 Open at Royal Birkdale, Seve crouches over the ball, but his wrists seemed pretty firm... he only breaks his wrists a tiny bit on very long putts, but thats probably still the case for anybody playing links courses or 30+ feet putts. I wonder when they started changing the putting technique? Late 60s/early 70s?
Somewhere in around that time frame.  Greens agronomy started to get much better and also was the end of the Arnold Palmer era.  Coincidence?  Tom Watson was likely the Poster Child for the 'new' putting technique.

Thanks for all your answers and for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated!
  
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#14 birly-shirly

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:55 AM

View PostSocrates, on 12 January 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Virtually no one uses that technique any more.  You have to remember that the greens back then were anything but smooth and if you were to Stimp them, they commonly would be slower than 8' at the best of times.  The 'stroke' they used was designed to pop the ball out of the little depression it sat in and get it rolling (well, bouncing) on top of the grass.  There really has been no need to have this kind of 'stroke' for decades as the greens are like table tops now.  Unless you go to home course of the CPG.

Balanced?  Not in the slightest.

Not arguing with any of that, but just wonder how it squares with the experience of the average golfer in my neck of the woods (UK). I believe Open Championship greens have stimped below 10 to maintain fairness in windier conditions - in which case I wonder how much slower than that the average UK club's greens are.

I've long thought that current trends in putter design, as regards length and weight, as much as they probably do reflect tour usage, are NOT a very good fit with the greens I routinely encounter. The same would probably go for technique.

IOW, I'm a product of my environment. That's my excuse, and I'll be sticking to it!

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#15 scomac2002

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 01:04 PM

View Postbirly-shirly, on 14 January 2019 - 10:55 AM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 12 January 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Virtually no one uses that technique any more.  You have to remember that the greens back then were anything but smooth and if you were to Stimp them, they commonly would be slower than 8' at the best of times.  The 'stroke' they used was designed to pop the ball out of the little depression it sat in and get it rolling (well, bouncing) on top of the grass.  There really has been no need to have this kind of 'stroke' for decades as the greens are like table tops now.  Unless you go to home course of the CPG.

Balanced?  Not in the slightest.

Not arguing with any of that, but just wonder how it squares with the experience of the average golfer in my neck of the woods (UK). I believe Open Championship greens have stimped below 10 to maintain fairness in windier conditions - in which case I wonder how much slower than that the average UK club's greens are.

I've long thought that current trends in putter design, as regards length and weight, as much as they probably do reflect tour usage, are NOT a very good fit with the greens I routinely encounter. The same would probably go for technique.

IOW, I'm a product of my environment. That's my excuse, and I'll be sticking to it!

I agree 100%!  I actually think that a great deal of equipment design is being driven by the professional game and the sorts of conditions they typically encounter.  That makes the recreational player a bit of a square peg often being pounded into a round hole under the guise of custom fitting.  I don't think that it's any surprise that vintage putters and wedges are at least as effective as current designs on many of the course conditions a recreational player will encounter.

Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!

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#16 @_the_crook

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:37 PM

example of what older putters were designed for, in terms of the greens.
this one could pop a ball up with almost no wrist action at all.

MacGregor Pacemaker. Reg number 3682.
has some serious loft.
with a different shaft it could almost be a one iron.

absolutely a gas to work with on a practice mat.


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#17 BIG STU

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 05:45 PM

View Post@_the_crook, on 18 January 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

example of what older putters were designed for, in terms of the greens.
this one could pop a ball up with almost no wrist action at all.

MacGregor Pacemaker. Reg number 3682.
has some serious loft.
with a different shaft it could almost be a one iron.

absolutely a gas to work with on a practice mat.


pics:
I have several similar to that one including the one Randy gave me. I have been known to use them when it has been wet and the crews have not been able to mow the greens. I also tend to use them on some of the goat ranch courses around here. Not as much anymore since most of them are closed now. I think the last time the subject of these putters was brought up I found my old Sears SR model I used to play 1 club bets with still had a crown cord on it. I would never use a classic Mac or H&B for a 1 club match. But you are correct it is darn near a 1 iron
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#18 @_the_crook

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 06:35 PM

View PostBIG STU, on 20 January 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

View Post@_the_crook, on 18 January 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

example of what older putters were designed for, in terms of the greens.
this one could pop a ball up with almost no wrist action at all.

MacGregor Pacemaker. Reg number 3682.
has some serious loft.
with a different shaft it could almost be a one iron.

absolutely a gas to work with on a practice mat.


pics:
I have several similar to that one including the one Randy gave me. I have been known to use them when it has been wet and the crews have not been able to mow the greens. I also tend to use them on some of the goat ranch courses around here. Not as much anymore since most of them are closed now. I think the last time the subject of these putters was brought up I found my old Sears SR model I used to play 1 club bets with still had a crown cord on it. I would never use a classic Mac or H&B for a 1 club match. But you are correct it is darn near a 1 iron

I'm happy to bring an older model putter out for a game but there are some that are just not designed for the faster greens on todays courses.
I usually play better with a slightly offset model but can get away with a straight shaft to the hosel design like a bullseye or augusta.
when I can find nice gooseneck type brand does not matter.
always fun to play and share.
currently playing:
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Warbirds, 3+, 4
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Wilson DynaPowered SW
Ping Anser
it works

when I need a change, there are 12 bags full to choose from .

18

#19 stixman

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Posted Yesterday, 08:50 AM

Plenty of old putters were brilliant of slick greens. Thing is that the old Silver Swan alloy mallets and the soft brass Golden Goose originals and clones would be much more expensive to make but their touch and feel was unsurpassed. As was the old plain blade especially when rolled off the toe.
The bling, hype and marketing of a modern putter doesn't make it 'per se' a better putting instrument
Vintage various.

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#20 57Staff

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Posted Yesterday, 12:32 PM

I use an ABS "chip roller" technique for putting.  Works pretty well on most surfaces, just need to be very delicate on slick greens.  I like this technique because mainly it is the same action for putting as my chipping and full strokes.  My putter is set up with a little loft.  Very much along the lines of Bobby Locke.


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#21 Jiggered

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Posted Yesterday, 12:53 PM

Perhaps not the thread for this but your heart has to go out to Sam Snead when he was reduced to this technique to try and overcome his putting issues, about 40 seconds in.
No longer legal, thank goodness, or maybe we'd all be doing it!

https://www.youtube....2&v=ROQIvnAJmCA
It's not all about the score.

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#22 Chris122

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Posted Yesterday, 07:40 PM

I recently watched a 'pro's tip' on a favourite YT channel (guess which Jiggered!) promoting the single pace pendulum stroke but during his putts,which in fairness he did hole,it was possible to see a slight deceleration just prior to impact which is exactly what I see with the handicap golfers I play with who try to emulate that stroke using tv-antenna-on-a-stick putters.
It always ends in tears.

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