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PGA Tour: Waialae CC, 17th hole...Change it up!


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#1 OBbogey5

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:36 AM

I like watching this tourney on TV more than Kapalua. The field isnít as good, obviously, but I can relate more to the W. The Planation course, to me, is boring...just a gigantic bomber driverís course, basically hitting every drive off a cliff into nowhere, and then 80 yards of roll. Cool - long ball. Get it.

But Waialae is more like a course that Iím used to playing and seeing. However, the 17th hole par 3 bores me to death. The green never holds, all the tee shots look the same, almost every player is looking or hoping for par. I think it looks just terrible on TV (side closeup of tee shot, then closeup of ball bouncing/rolling throwing green), it kills momentum down the stretch of a usually exciting finish, and it seems to always pop up in a playoff.

The 18th hole is a fantastic finishing hole for TV; and Iíd like to see the 17th not diminish it as the penultimate hole. I actually turn the channel, during a playoff!, when the guys go to 17. I know the tournament probably wonít end there, and if it does, itís because par saved the day.

Boring! And Sad! PGA Tour: re-do 17 at Waialae to make it more exciting to us viewers, please!

Your opinions..??



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#2 Dr. Block

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:17 PM

Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge.  Itís always worked for the road hole.

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#3 OBbogey5

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:31 PM

View PostDr. Block, on 12 January 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge.  Itís always worked for the road hole.

I know the Road Hole, Dr. Block. And W#17 is no Road Hole!

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#4 Darth Putter

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:52 PM

You got your wish, it's a new Doak redesign this year to make it more "Redan" like.

https://golfweek.com...-taste-of-doak/
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just say NO.... to practice swings

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#5 Dr. Block

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:54 PM

View PostOBbogey5, on 12 January 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 12 January 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge.  Itís always worked for the road hole.

I know the Road Hole, Dr. Block. And W#17 is no Road Hole!

My post was simply me sharing my opinion, but your use of an exclamation point seems to mean you didnít appreciate it. So let me go a little further.

A penultimate hole with a green almost impossible to hit and hold (like the road hole) followed by an exciting eighteenth that is easily birdied makes for a truly special finish at the home of golf, but a similar design strategy at Wailea offends you?  How about the 17th at pebble, does itís difficulty also ruin things for you?

In my opinion, not every hole should be lawn darts - especially at the end of a tournament round.

Edited by Dr. Block, 12 January 2019 - 01:26 PM.


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#6 elwhippy

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:00 PM

The Road Hole is an easy par 5. Off the back tees an amateur is being optimistic on getting down in 4 shots. However a tough par 3 is a welcome change on the PGA Tour.

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#7 Bluefan75

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:58 PM

View PostDr. Block, on 12 January 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge.  It's always worked for the road hole.

The Road Hole is not an easy par, but it's not impossible to hold the green.  There are ways to make a four.  A par 3 that is impossible to hold is not of the same ilk.

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#8 Hawkeye77

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:15 PM

LOL, complaining and no idea of the redesign. And if it's still boring, I guess it's still boring.  A par three that requires a good shot. Great idea.

A challenging hole made a little better that players must get a good score on in the heat of battle coming down the stretch.

Sounds perfect.

Good point made by the announcers about the little village around the back of the hole, that needs to go.

Edited by Hawkeye77, 12 January 2019 - 03:23 PM.


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#9 Hawkeye77

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:27 PM

And I honestly wasn't aware of the redesign either until I heard Mr. Hawaii (who I really like as an announcer) mention "redan" yesterday - so looked it up.

Playing the original redan this summer, can't wait!  If it really was 1869 that makes it the 150th anniversary if my cyphering is correct.

Edited by Hawkeye77, 12 January 2019 - 03:27 PM.


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#10 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:39 PM

Agree.  It’s total crap and bad TV.  Green is as hard as a parking lot. Virtually impossible to get close.

Hopefully it will soften up quickly after it ages a bit.

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#11 Hawkeye77

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:54 PM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 12 January 2019 - 03:39 PM, said:

Agree.  It’s total crap and bad TV.  Green is as hard as a parking lot. Virtually impossible to get close.

Hopefully it will soften up quickly after it ages a bit.

Do you think the hardness of the green was part of the intent, or is that a tournament setup and or weather issue this week?

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#12 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:06 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 12 January 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 12 January 2019 - 03:39 PM, said:

Agree.  Itís total crap and bad TV.  Green is as hard as a parking lot. Virtually impossible to get close.

Hopefully it will soften up quickly after it ages a bit.

Do you think the hardness of the green was part of the intent, or is that a tournament setup and or weather issue this week?

No.  The talking heads have even mentioned itís too hard.

New greens just tend to be very hard.  It will soften with age and once it gets some dead leaf matter and organic goodness mixed into it.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 12 January 2019 - 04:07 PM.

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#13 Dr. Block

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:26 PM

View PostBluefan75, on 12 January 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

View PostDr. Block, on 12 January 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

Speaking personally, I enjoy watching par be the challenge.  It's always worked for the road hole.

The Road Hole is not an easy par, but it's not impossible to hold the green.  There are ways to make a four.  A par 3 that is impossible to hold is not of the same ilk.

Isnít the road hole green usually held by a flighted shot landing just short and rolling up the slope with the proper weight? Is this possible on a redan green like the 17th at Wailae? I havenít played many so I donít really know them, but it looks like the run up would be the shot from what Iíve seen watching the broadcast.

Edited by Dr. Block, 12 January 2019 - 04:30 PM.


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#14 9400

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:07 PM

Hard disagree with the premise of this thread. It went from being a flat boring green back to a Redan template hole used extensively by the original course architect, Seth Raynor. No longer do the players just get a yardage, thoughtlessly pick their club and swing. It takes thought and a well planned and executed approach. Guys have gotten it close, they are the ones flighting it down and landing it 25 yards short.

Difficult and strategic is a huge upgrade to this hole.

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#15 Mikey5e

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:45 PM

Isn't the 17th hole to par 3 with the concession stand wrapping around the green? I think they were mentioning that the players would seem to hit into the concession stands and get a free drop away from them to their advantage. It seems a bit rinky-dink in my opinion.


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#16 OBbogey5

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 03:44 AM

Hey who won the tourney today, and how did the 17th factor in??

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