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CPM range across graphite set

Couple of Qs

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11 replies to this topic

#1 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 11:21 PM

So I can grab some extra matrix hybrid shafts that cpm out at 285.  Love this shaft in my 4 & 5h but want to know if I can build out 6-pw

Matrix info says you can w aggressive tip trimming up to three inches ...

Where should the cpm numbers fall for the 6, 7, 8, 9 and PW?  Ballpark numbers are fine

The s55 PW I am using now - steelfiber 125s - is at 326cpm at 36.5". Love this feel fwiw.  Heavy swing weight.

I can check specs on my 5h tomorrow if that helps.

Generally, I like flexes btw S and X.  

Just want to understand the process before moving thru the mechanics w my fitter

Edited by cardoustie, 11 January 2019 - 11:22 PM.

Ping G400 LST 11.0* Oban Revenge Green 65x
Ping G400 3w 13.9* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x
Ping G400 5w 16.9* Oban Isawa Red 65x
Callaway Apex 3h 20* Matrix MFS Orange 85x
Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix Altus Red 92x
Ping Rapture 5 - PW UST PF 95s
Ping Glides wrx 50, 54 and 59* Steelfiber 125s
Ping Tour W 64* DG s400
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)

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#2 Matt J

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:24 AM

If you go to a fitter that can pull enough inventory they can match the whole set off that club.  Supposedly Steelfibers are very tight to spec, but I would like to find out.  I own a bunch of their shafts but most of them were soft stepped in their initial builds.  I'd like to build a progressive set of 95's, 110's, and 125's.

I play everything D4 to D6 right now other than driver that's even heavier.

The EI profiles are interesting on them as they don't lose a lot of stiffness as you drop weight.

BTW, it sounds like you're considering parallel through the set and will need to bore out any Taper Tip heads to make that work.

You can pretty much fit make a curve between your 5H and the PW if the swingweight in consistent.


Edited by Matt J, 12 January 2019 - 12:31 AM.


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#3 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:16 AM

Sorry, not sure I can help much other than to say that numbers from a different shaft model with a different profile (i.e. the Steelfibers) wont help you at all with the matrix shafts.

Also, if you only have about 3" of tipping to work with, that's doesn't give you a whole lot of room to work with for a 6-PW set.   If it were me I'd probably first try max tipping on the PW to see if it was going to be enough for that hybrid shaft to handle the heaviest head.

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#4 KRW59

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:11 AM

Back in the mid-late 1990's I built a set of clubs with ascending CPM slope ,
using graphite shafts. This was back when I was a X-flex player....

Driver CPM 271 / 3 wd CPM 281 / 1 iron to Pw  301 to 331 CPM / 55 SW 331
Using .370" parallel tip Apache Pm-40i graphite shafts ( the KJ Choi models )
I weight sorted and tipped the shafts to 3 cpms from each iron to the next..
Started with 1 iron at 301 CPM , 2 iron 304 CPM ,etc, etc. PW 331 CPM....
Alot of small cut then measure , involved , not just the standard tip .5"
extra and move on to the next club. Also shaft orientation in the clamp
would make a difference on the CPM reading. If you have the time..do it..

Honestly what I do now , the progressive swing weight , is easier..

Edited by KRW59, 12 January 2019 - 11:20 AM.

Cobra King F8 10.5* / Fuji Diamond Speeder 5-SR
TEE EX10 Beta 16.5* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 5-SR
TEE EX10 19* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 6-S
TEE EX9 22* / Attas 4U 7-S.  
TEE EX9 25* / Attas 4U 7-X
I have added about 10 grams of weight to all the fwy / hybrid
shafts , using Sensicore inserts wrapped with lead tape.

Cobra Forged Tec Black / 28* 6 iron thru 49.5* GW / 4.5* gapping
Recoil 780 Es Smac wrap F3 / GW shaft internally weighted to 95 grams

King Black Wedges / 54* versatile/ Recoil 95 F3 shaft weighted to 110 grams
58* versatile / Recoil 110 F4 shaft weighted to 125 grams ( heat shrink tube )

Piretti Savona 2 Elite《Murdered》or 1/1 GSS High Toe Potenza II

               Flask - Crown Black

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#5 Matt J

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:23 PM

View PostStuart G., on 12 January 2019 - 04:16 AM, said:

Sorry, not sure I can help much other than to say that numbers from a different shaft model with a different profile (i.e. the Steelfibers) wont help you at all with the matrix shafts.

Also, if you only have about 3" of tipping to work with, that's doesn't give you a whole lot of room to work with for a 6-PW set.   If it were me I'd probably first try max tipping on the PW to see if it was going to be enough for that hybrid shaft to handle the heaviest head.

This makes the most sense to me, too.  If you can't get the PW stiff enough for your taste the rest is moot.

I am certainly no master club builder, but I did recently use a friends frequency analyzer.  Perhaps a little of what I learned will help you understand.  Also, maybe some of the guru's in here will chime in.

Basically, you clamp the shaft (how tight the clamp is and the orientation will change the readings, grip or no grip will change the readings) add a weight or the dry fitted club head (how much weight will change the readings) then you flex it and let it oscillate and the frequency analyzer measures the vibration.  Here's a good YouTube of a guy doing it....

https://www.youtube....h?v=IU3QwLrckpc

So, basically, your fitter is going to check all of the shafts before tip trimming them and then tip and butt cut them to try and get a "perfect curve" of deviation between your clubs.  There's a little art and science to the whole thing, because as you see there are a lot of variables i.e. a little different pressure out of the clamp, a little different weight, or a different orientation of the shaft.

Good luck!


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#6 KRW59

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:41 PM

View PostKRW59, on 12 January 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

Back in the mid-late 1990's I built a set of clubs with ascending CPM slope ,
using graphite shafts. This was back when I was a X-flex player....

Driver CPM 271 / 3 wd CPM 281 / 1 iron to Pw  301 to 331 CPM / 55 SW 331
Using .370" parallel tip Apache Pm-40i graphite shafts ( the KJ Choi models )
I weight sorted and tipped the shafts to 3 cpms from each iron to the next..
Started with 1 iron at 301 CPM , 2 iron 304 CPM ,etc, etc. PW 331 CPM....
Alot of small cut then measure , involved , not just the standard tip .5"
extra and move on to the next club. Also shaft orientation in the clamp
would make a difference on the CPM reading. If you have the time..do it..

Honestly what I do now , the progressive swing weight , is easier..

View PostMatt J, on 12 January 2019 - 12:23 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 12 January 2019 - 04:16 AM, said:

Sorry, not sure I can help much other than to say that numbers from a different shaft model with a different profile (i.e. the Steelfibers) wont help you at all with the matrix shafts.

Also, if you only have about 3" of tipping to work with, that's doesn't give you a whole lot of room to work with for a 6-PW set.   If it were me I'd probably first try max tipping on the PW to see if it was going to be enough for that hybrid shaft to handle the heaviest head.

This makes the most sense to me, too.  If you can't get the PW stiff enough for your taste the rest is moot.

I am certainly no master club builder, but I did recently use a friends frequency analyzer.  Perhaps a little of what I learned will help you understand.  Also, maybe some of the guru's in here will chime in.

Basically, you clamp the shaft (how tight the clamp is and the orientation will change the readings, grip or no grip will change the readings) add a weight or the dry fitted club head (how much weight will change the readings) then you flex it and let it oscillate and the frequency analyzer measures the vibration.  Here's a good YouTube of a guy doing it....

https://www.youtube....h?v=IU3QwLrckpc

So, basically, your fitter is going to check all of the shafts before tip trimming them and then tip and butt cut them to try and get a "perfect curve" of deviation between your clubs.  There's a little art and science to the whole thing, because as you see there are a lot of variables i.e. a little different pressure out of the clamp, a little different weight, or a different orientation of the shaft.

Good luck!

I used each individual head dry fit , and shaft clamped on butt at it's final
play length to get my CPM readings. Alot of measure , trim , remeasure involved

It was more an exercise in building each individual iron , one at a time ,to  a target CPM and swingweight, than it was building a "set of irons ".....

Edited by KRW59, 12 January 2019 - 01:36 PM.

Cobra King F8 10.5* / Fuji Diamond Speeder 5-SR
TEE EX10 Beta 16.5* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 5-SR
TEE EX10 19* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 6-S
TEE EX9 22* / Attas 4U 7-S.  
TEE EX9 25* / Attas 4U 7-X
I have added about 10 grams of weight to all the fwy / hybrid
shafts , using Sensicore inserts wrapped with lead tape.

Cobra Forged Tec Black / 28* 6 iron thru 49.5* GW / 4.5* gapping
Recoil 780 Es Smac wrap F3 / GW shaft internally weighted to 95 grams

King Black Wedges / 54* versatile/ Recoil 95 F3 shaft weighted to 110 grams
58* versatile / Recoil 110 F4 shaft weighted to 125 grams ( heat shrink tube )

Piretti Savona 2 Elite《Murdered》or 1/1 GSS High Toe Potenza II

               Flask - Crown Black

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#7 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:10 AM

Sounds doable
Ping G400 LST 11.0* Oban Revenge Green 65x
Ping G400 3w 13.9* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x
Ping G400 5w 16.9* Oban Isawa Red 65x
Callaway Apex 3h 20* Matrix MFS Orange 85x
Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix Altus Red 92x
Ping Rapture 5 - PW UST PF 95s
Ping Glides wrx 50, 54 and 59* Steelfiber 125s
Ping Tour W 64* DG s400
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)

7

#8 cardoustie

cardoustie

    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:12 AM

View PostMatt J, on 12 January 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

If you go to a fitter that can pull enough inventory they can match the whole set off that club.  Supposedly Steelfibers are very tight to spec, but I would like to find out.  I own a bunch of their shafts but most of them were soft stepped in their initial builds.  I'd like to build a progressive set of 95's, 110's, and 125's.

I play everything D4 to D6 right now other than driver that's even heavier.

The EI profiles are interesting on them as they don't lose a lot of stiffness as you drop weight.

BTW, it sounds like you're considering parallel through the set and will need to bore out any Taper Tip heads to make that work.

You can pretty much fit make a curve between your 5H and the PW if the swingweight in consistent.

I'm in the middle of building blended weight s55 irons w steelfibers myself

I too am also a heavy swing weight guy
Ping G400 LST 11.0* Oban Revenge Green 65x
Ping G400 3w 13.9* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x
Ping G400 5w 16.9* Oban Isawa Red 65x
Callaway Apex 3h 20* Matrix MFS Orange 85x
Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix Altus Red 92x
Ping Rapture 5 - PW UST PF 95s
Ping Glides wrx 50, 54 and 59* Steelfiber 125s
Ping Tour W 64* DG s400
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)

8

#9 cardoustie

cardoustie

    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:59 AM

Is there not a generic chart for each iron cpm for length?  Similar to how driver at 45" is stiff at 260cpm ....
Ping G400 LST 11.0* Oban Revenge Green 65x
Ping G400 3w 13.9* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x
Ping G400 5w 16.9* Oban Isawa Red 65x
Callaway Apex 3h 20* Matrix MFS Orange 85x
Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix Altus Red 92x
Ping Rapture 5 - PW UST PF 95s
Ping Glides wrx 50, 54 and 59* Steelfiber 125s
Ping Tour W 64* DG s400
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)

9

#10 cardoustie

cardoustie

    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

I was thinking

If 5 is 285 .. hybrid or iron

Then simply something like below could work?  I get not following matrix on line trim guidelines but lots of small tip cuts to space out properly

6 = 292
7 = 299
8 = 306
9 = 313
P = 320

Is a space of 7 normal enough to work for graphite?  I know it's 4 or 5 for steel ...

I know before I left we played around w my 97g hb6 project x hybrid shaft in a 7i and it was way up at 324 ...


Ping G400 LST 11.0* Oban Revenge Green 65x
Ping G400 3w 13.9* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x
Ping G400 5w 16.9* Oban Isawa Red 65x
Callaway Apex 3h 20* Matrix MFS Orange 85x
Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix Altus Red 92x
Ping Rapture 5 - PW UST PF 95s
Ping Glides wrx 50, 54 and 59* Steelfiber 125s
Ping Tour W 64* DG s400
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)

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#11 Matt J

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 10:23 AM

I don't know that the freq. of your hybrid matters for your irons because the COG and tech is so different.

I, too, play a 5 at 27 degrees and it is more like an X so it doesn't fly too high.

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#12 cardoustie

cardoustie

    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 05:33 PM

Anyone have any reference grids and/or scales for this .. drivers or irons ??

Bueller?

I have the shafts inbound
Ping G400 LST 11.0* Oban Revenge Green 65x
Ping G400 3w 13.9* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x
Ping G400 5w 16.9* Oban Isawa Red 65x
Callaway Apex 3h 20* Matrix MFS Orange 85x
Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix Altus Red 92x
Ping Rapture 5 - PW UST PF 95s
Ping Glides wrx 50, 54 and 59* Steelfiber 125s
Ping Tour W 64* DG s400
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)

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