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It's Spring Junior Tournament Season


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#1 jj9000

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:39 PM

Who's leaving the pin in this season?

No putts?  Some putts?  All putts?


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#2 tiger1873

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:47 PM

Donít leave the flag in on close putts. Cost my daughter a few strokes already ball hit the flag and bounced back about an inch and didnít go in.

The holes is bigger without the flag in take it out.

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#3 leezer99

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

The boy wants it out like the rules were last year.  I'm going to try and convince him that long putts of 6+ feet he should leave it in and then slowly nudge him towards leaving it in all the time.  We'll see how that goes.

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#4 heavy_hitter

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 04:22 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 11 January 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

Don't leave the flag in on close putts. Cost my daughter a few strokes already ball hit the flag and bounced back about an inch and didn't go in.

The holes is bigger without the flag in take it out.

That isn't what the stats say.  If the stick popped it, she plain and simple hit it too hard.

Outside of 4 feet my kid has been leaving it in so far.  I have nothing to do with it either.  We discussed and I told him it was up to him.  He heard Hank Haney on PGA Network talking about this issue last Friday.  Hank says that people are in idiot if they pull it out.  In the long run it is going to save you strokes.  You may never see them but at the end of the season your scoring differential should reflect.  As a tournament golf it is all about the scoring differential (your tournament handicap).  I believe I heard it will improve your scoring by 2%.  That will be 1.44 strokes a round or better.  Over the course of ten 36 hole tournaments that is over 500 strokes.  I think I would leave the pin in.

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#5 tiger1873

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:43 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 11 January 2019 - 04:22 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 11 January 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

Don't leave the flag in on close putts. Cost my daughter a few strokes already ball hit the flag and bounced back about an inch and didn't go in.

The holes is bigger without the flag in take it out.

That isn't what the stats say.  If the stick popped it, she plain and simple hit it too hard.

Outside of 4 feet my kid has been leaving it in so far.  I have nothing to do with it either.  We discussed and I told him it was up to him.  He heard Hank Haney on PGA Network talking about this issue last Friday.  Hank says that people are in idiot if they pull it out.  In the long run it is going to save you strokes.  You may never see them but at the end of the season your scoring differential should reflect.  As a tournament golf it is all about the scoring differential (your tournament handicap).  I believe I heard it will improve your scoring by 2%.  That will be 1.44 strokes a round or better.  Over the course of ten 36 hole tournaments that is over 500 strokes.  I think I would leave the pin in.

I know what the stats say but it was a 3 foot putt and hit the pin and didnít go down and ending up lipping the cup for a tap in.

Honestly it didnít drop like you would expect. Perhaps the pin was leaning to one side. Regardless it not a sure thing and you can not have the flag leaning in any direction into the wind otherwise your actually making the hole smaller.




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#6 BertGA

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:56 PM

Must have been a stick with a higher coefficient of restitution.

In all seriousness, the point of statistics is that they average out over time. Feel free to make a hasty decision on a few anecdotal putts. No one is claiming it improves your chances every single putt. But very smart minds, who get paid to talk about this stuff (unlike any of us) tend to agree that it can save a few strokes here and there.


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#7 leezer99

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:31 PM

Make percentages below with flagstick in vs. flagstick out at three different speeds at three different entry points.  Speeds = die in the hole, back of the cup and bouncing in the air if it hits the back of the cup (slow, medium, fast).  Entry points are center, middle center and inside the edge of the cup.  Test was done with 100 putts using the perfect putter at each variation.  Total 'putts' would be 1,800.  Test performed by the Edoardo Molinari Golf Academy.

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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:54 PM

View PostBertGA, on 11 January 2019 - 05:56 PM, said:

Must have been a stick with a higher coefficient of restitution.

In all seriousness, the point of statistics is that they average out over time. Feel free to make a hasty decision on a few anecdotal putts. No one is claiming it improves your chances every single putt. But very smart minds, who get paid to talk about this stuff (unlike any of us) tend to agree that it can save a few strokes here and there.

Yep.  You are going to miss some.  The point is over time you will miss more over time with it out.  If it saves 1 stroke around that can be the difference in winning and losing.

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#9 AUSweeper

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 08:50 PM

I was thinking we would try leaving the pin in on downhill putts, out for uphill. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I have a feeling that once one person pulls the pin it will stay out.

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#10 hangontight

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

We have not played any tmnts yet this year.    How is this working out in groups where different players have different preference?  Seems it could potentially slow play and be distracting if the flag is going in- out-in-out.


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#11 darter79

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:06 PM

View Posthangontight, on 12 January 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

We have not played any tmnts yet this year. How is this working out in groups where different players have different preference?  Seems it could potentially slow play and be distracting if the flag is going in- out-in-out.

I agree I think it will slow play down but hopeful its offset by new caddie rules.

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#12 leezer99

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:41 PM

View Postdarter79, on 12 January 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

View Posthangontight, on 12 January 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

We have not played any tmnts yet this year. How is this working out in groups where different players have different preference?  Seems it could potentially slow play and be distracting if the flag is going in- out-in-out.

I agree I think it will slow play down but hopeful its offset by new caddie rules.
I'll let you know in about five hours.

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#13 BertGA

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:51 PM

Played this morning, I think it’s still too early for people to have found a preference. Once the flag stick comes out it tends to stay out. Granted, this was a low-stakes tournament, only two in our group, not much on the line. Perhaps it will be different with more at stake.

Personally, I think it will only speed up play. Most people will leave the stick in from distance, most will pull it out within 10 feet. To be honest, when you are five feet away, putting the stick back takes no significant amount of time if caddies are present. Maybe a little longer if it is just just the players on the green. The real time savings comes when everyone is 10 plus feet out, and no one has to make the walk over to remove the stick.

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#14 leezer99

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:50 AM

My son's experience today was similar to what Bert posted.  My son wanted the flag out all day while the two other boys he played with didn't seem to care either way.  There wasn't ever a time when someone wanted it back in after it had been taken out so my son made sure to take it out as soon as everyone was on the green.  

The only time he left the flag in was when he was on 18 and had a 15' putt up a ridge in the green and he didn't want to wait for one of the other kids that had air mailed the green so he putted it and it went in.  I tried doing the 'I told you so' thing but he wasn't buying.

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#15 BertGA

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 08:25 AM

I do think what made our round a bit faster, too, was the green light to play ready golf. The rules changes encourage that, whereas before I felt you kind of had to ask. I know some tournaments have been encouraging that for some time, but I don't feel that was the case with USKG.


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#16 wlm

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 11:06 AM

My son has a HS tourney, an Am event and a junior event over the next month. Iíll ask him what he is seeing, in case that might be of interest to anyone.

Edited by wlm, 13 January 2019 - 11:25 AM.


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#17 kekoa

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 01:39 PM

FWIW, and from what I've been seeing only-  More accomplished players are pulling the flag while those of lower skill levels are leaving the flag in.  If the net goal is to speed up play with this new rule, I just don't see it working.

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#18 wildcatden

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 02:02 PM

View Postleezer99, on 13 January 2019 - 12:50 AM, said:

My son's experience today was similar to what Bert posted.  My son wanted the flag out all day while the two other boys he played with didn't seem to care either way.  There wasn't ever a time when someone wanted it back in after it had been taken out so my son made sure to take it out as soon as everyone was on the green.  

The only time he left the flag in was when he was on 18 and had a 15' putt up a ridge in the green and he didn't want to wait for one of the other kids that had air mailed the green so he putted it and it went in.  I tried doing the 'I told you so' thing but he wasn't buying.

Did the flag in or flag out effect your length of time for the round?  I was thinking about this yesterday while we were out on the ski slopes for the 3rd time this year.

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#19 leezer99

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 02:56 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 14 January 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 13 January 2019 - 12:50 AM, said:

My son's experience today was similar to what Bert posted.  My son wanted the flag out all day while the two other boys he played with didn't seem to care either way.  There wasn't ever a time when someone wanted it back in after it had been taken out so my son made sure to take it out as soon as everyone was on the green.  

The only time he left the flag in was when he was on 18 and had a 15' putt up a ridge in the green and he didn't want to wait for one of the other kids that had air mailed the green so he putted it and it went in.  I tried doing the 'I told you so' thing but he wasn't buying.

Did the flag in or flag out effect your length of time for the round?  I was thinking about this yesterday while we were out on the ski slopes for the 3rd time this year.

Might have actually increased the time of the round but it's marginal and only because the kids have to ask each other if they want it in or out now.  Once it's out though they all left it out.  In 36 holes there was never a hole where one kid wanted it out and another wanted it in.

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#20 leezer99

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:51 PM

Leave it in.

https://mygolfspy.co...new-golf-rules/


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#21 wildcatden

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:26 PM

View Postleezer99, on 16 January 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:


This should help my kid as he has no problem blasting it 6-9 feet past the hole.

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#22 darter79

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 09:37 AM

View Postkekoa, on 14 January 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

FWIW, and from what I've been seeing only-  More accomplished players are pulling the flag while those of lower skill levels are leaving the flag in.  If the net goal is to speed up play with this new rule, I just don't see it working.

I think once people and kids start learning its an advantage  you will see that trend flip. Especially when PGA players start doing it more over time.

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#23 kekoa

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 01:27 PM

View Postdarter79, on 17 January 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

View Postkekoa, on 14 January 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

FWIW, and from what I've been seeing only-  More accomplished players are pulling the flag while those of lower skill levels are leaving the flag in.  If the net goal is to speed up play with this new rule, I just don't see it working.

I think once people and kids start learning its an advantage  you will see that trend flip. Especially when PGA players start doing it more over time.

I feel as though this is one of those topics that you can argue about till the cows come home.  Regardless of how many studies are done, none of them can take into account the mental aspect of leaving the flag in vs. out.  Lets face it, the only guy on tour leaving the flag in is BD and he is special.  I could see more guys on the senior tour and possibly LPGA leaving the flag in, but there is no way it will catch on with PGA tour players.  I mention PGA because they set the benchmark for what top tier juniors do and try to emulate.

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#24 leezer99

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Posted Yesterday, 01:54 PM

Looks like it doesn't matter if you line them up, they're going to aim wrong anyway.

New study shows that golfers have been aiming wrong this whole time

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#25 leezer99

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Posted Yesterday, 05:53 PM

Was finally able to get out to the course and putt for a while today.  Had the boy on the putting green about three feet from the hole and told him to hit the ball hard into the flag stick.  It obviously didn't go in because he hit it so hard but it only caromed off about five feet or so.  Then took the flag out and had him do the same thing... ball ended up forty feet away.

He still doesn't believe me that leaving the flag stick in helps.

I give up...


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