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Lead arm or trail arm to 'drive/control' the swing?


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#1 PJ72

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:27 AM

Hi All, been missing these last 12 months or so - been busy with new work opportunities, and haven't played golf for the whole year :-(

Anyway, I'm back now and i'm eager to get started again, and try to 'reset' my swing and get back to basics.

I went to the range the other day - and i was terrible, unsurprisingly. I need a few lessons.

So, my issue before i had a lay off, was that my arms were behind the body during impact, with a flip to recover. Left arm is bent all the way through impact and folds quickly after - like i'm not releasing the club properly. Everyone says i have  good swing, and the back swing is pretty good, but something in the kinetic chain causes this kind of stuck, chicken wing, poor release. And i'm convinced it's the way I initiate the downswing. The left arm is passive in my swing - i swing completely with the right arm/hand. I feel that this is possibly where the problem arises from. Body rotation is lacking at impact too - i think i might slide into it with the hips too much.

My question is, should i try and make the left arm dominant? And how would i do that - just get a club and start swinging left handed to develop the strength and control needed?

I know it's difficult without video. Maybe Monte or someone does online video lessons still?

Thoughts?


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#2 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 02:07 PM

The answer is maybe.  

Some need to be left arm dominant
Some right
Some need a better setup
Some need a better backswing
Some need better wrist movements in transition
Some need better pelvis movements in the backswing and transition

Some need 2 or more of the above.

I know that’s not what you wanted to hear, but the answer is you need to addrsss the initial offending movement and then work on different feels that create that movement.

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#3 PJ72

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:41 PM

Thanks Monte.

Do you still have a lesson portal?

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#4 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:28 PM

Rebelliongolf.com

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#5 PJ72

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:04 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 08 January 2019 - 09:28 PM, said:

Rebelliongolf.com

Thanks Monte.


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#6 Spinedoc2304

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:59 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 08 January 2019 - 09:28 PM, said:

Rebelliongolf.com
Hi Monte
The link to online lessons on the website doesn’t seem to work

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#7 dap

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 11:17 PM

In my opinion a lot of players who have poor arm extension through impact suffer some form of the hit impulse. The ball becomes too much of the focus and you tend to release early, flip the lead wrist and collapsing the lead arm after impact. You need to learn to swing at a point past the ball like a karate expert breaking boards by directing force 6 inches past the board.

I don't believe players who have this mental issue can fix it through swing mechanics alone because it is a bit like the yips. I would try the aiming point concept by Bobby Clampett. Just google it. There should be lots of information on it.

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#8 mikpga

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 11:36 PM

Perhaps think of the “triangle” as one unit...

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#9 Silky

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 04:26 AM

My latest version of the golf swing concept is to drive and control with both arms.

The lead shoulder tug the hands and club through the lead arm.  The lead shoulder should move in the lead shoulder plane which is exactly the Hogan's pane of glass.  The force vectors of the tugging via the lead shoulder lie on this plane or pane of glass.  Imagine another similar pane of glass - the trail elbow plane with the target line as the base and intersecting the trail elbow at address.  The trail elbow should move on this plane during transition and through impact.  This is the force vectors of the tugging via the trail elbow lie of this plane.

The motion of the lead shoulder is driven through the upper flywheel - the torso with the thoracic spine as axis, while the motion of the trail elbow is driven through the lower flywheel the pelvis with the lumbar spine as axis.  Since the two force planes are not parallel, the thoracic spine and the lumbar spine are not co-linear during transition through impact!  Forget the Adam Scott's straight-back posture.

Just like a water skier being tugged by two boats, the path of the hands is determined by the paths of the lead shoulder and the the trail elbow.  The hands and the club are trapped within the two force planes.  Stability is achieved with counteracting moment arms trying to bring them into the force planes above and below.

Observe how Hogan drive the lead shoulder and the trail elbow through impact.

Hogan Impact.gif

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#10 PJ72

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:08 AM

View Postdap, on 09 January 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

In my opinion a lot of players who have poor arm extension through impact suffer some form of the hit impulse. The ball becomes too much of the focus and you tend to release early, flip the lead wrist and collapsing the lead arm after impact. You need to learn to swing at a point past the ball like a karate expert breaking boards by directing force 6 inches past the board.

I don't believe players who have this mental issue can fix it through swing mechanics alone because it is a bit like the yips. I would try the aiming point concept by Bobby Clampett. Just google it. There should be lots of information on it.

Thanks Dap. Looks like a decent idea. Cant do any harm to try it.


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#11 PJ72

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:24 AM

View PostSilky, on 10 January 2019 - 04:26 AM, said:

My latest version of the golf swing concept is to drive and control with both arms.

The lead shoulder tug the hands and club through the lead arm.  The lead shoulder should move in the lead shoulder plane which is exactly the Hogan's pane of glass.  The force vectors of the tugging via the lead shoulder lie on this plane or pane of glass.  Imagine another similar pane of glass - the trail elbow plane with the target line as the base and intersecting the trail elbow at address.  The trail elbow should move on this plane during transition and through impact.  This is the force vectors of the tugging via the trail elbow lie of this plane.

The motion of the lead shoulder is driven through the upper flywheel - the torso with the thoracic spine as axis, while the motion of the trail elbow is driven through the lower flywheel the pelvis with the lumbar spine as axis.  Since the two force planes are not parallel, the thoracic spine and the lumbar spine are not co-linear during transition through impact!  Forget the Adam Scott's straight-back posture.

Just like a water skier being tugged by two boats, the path of the hands is determined by the paths of the lead shoulder and the the trail elbow.  The hands and the club are trapped within the two force planes.  Stability is achieved with counteracting moment arms trying to bring them into the force planes above and below.

Observe how Hogan drive the lead shoulder and the trail elbow through impact.

I think i got most of that haha. When i'm swinging with the left arm only (without a ball), it feels like i'm forced to get the left side out of the way much more/earlier (not sure which, but it feels so much more open at impact). Whereas when I'm hitting a ball and my right arm takes over, i feel like there is little rotation before/during impact. Another thing i've noticed is that the ball never goes left, always just straight or very slight fade. When the right arm is dominant, i get snap hooks, and also pushes and higher shots, like i'm adding loft (from the flip).

EDIT:- Crazy how much rotation hogan gets in that millisecond before he hits the ball and hits it.

Edited by PJ72, 10 January 2019 - 07:30 AM.


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#12 Superbrit

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:12 AM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 08 January 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

The answer is maybe.  

Some need to be left arm dominant
Some right
Some need a better setup
Some need a better backswing
Some need better wrist movements in transition
Some need better pelvis movements in the backswing and transition

Some need 2 or more of the above.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but the answer is you need to addrsss the initial offending movement and then work on different feels that create that movement.

Hi Monte, something ive always wondered -
When i've flipped between grips (neutral and strong) ive always found if i have a neutral grip i hit the ball better with my lead arm being dominant, and when i have a strong grip i find i hit it better being right arm dominant, is this usually the case?

Edited by Superbrit, 10 January 2019 - 09:14 AM.

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#13 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:45 AM

View PostSuperbrit, on 10 January 2019 - 09:12 AM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 08 January 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

The answer is maybe.  

Some need to be left arm dominant
Some right
Some need a better setup
Some need a better backswing
Some need better wrist movements in transition
Some need better pelvis movements in the backswing and transition

Some need 2 or more of the above.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but the answer is you need to addrsss the initial offending movement and then work on different feels that create that movement.

Hi Monte, something ive always wondered -
When i've flipped between grips (neutral and strong) ive always found if i have a neutral grip i hit the ball better with my lead arm being dominant, and when i have a strong grip i find i hit it better being right arm dominant, is this usually the case?

That exact case is individual, but having to feel a different intent for different grip is normal.

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