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Apex cf16 to Apex 2019 irons - Loft jacking continuing??


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#31 Joker91

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them


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#32 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:08 PM

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them

I just voice my opinion. As I said I am very disappointed as a owner of Apex 2014, Apex cf16, and Apex  cf 16 / pro 16. Combo set. Sad to see Callaway now goes down the wrong path. My opinion only of course.

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#33 CaseyDan

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:09 PM

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

I used to have an old set of Spalding irons, had to be from the 1940's or 50's, early matched set....2-9 iron.  the 9 iron was around 52 degrees I think. (who knows if it was at original specs)

The original matched sets were 1,2,3,4 wood.  1-9 iron and putter.  14 clubs.  

Loft jacking started many years ago, it's just come to the point, with modern tech that it has to quit at some point.  

It seems were are coming full circle, instead of buying a matched set we will soon be buying the entire set 1 club at a time like hickories.  Based on loft or carry yardage.

It's funny you say that because when I saw the charts the OP posted I thought to myself, I should just buy 3-SW and just call it a day.  Would that be very UNgolfWRX or very golfWRX?
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#34 OutBackHack

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:12 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them

I just voice my opinion. As I said I am very disappointed as a owner of Apex 2014, Apex cf16, and Apex  cf 16 / pro 16. Combo set. Sad to see Callaway now goes down the wrong path. My opinion only of course.

If you can afford to buy 5 sets of irons in 5 years you can afford to have them bent to whatever loft you want them.
It's not that big of a deal.

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#35 Joker91

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:13 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them

I just voice my opinion. As I said I am very disappointed as a owner of Apex 2014, Apex cf16, and Apex  cf 16 / pro 16. Combo set. Sad to see Callaway now goes down the wrong path. My opinion only of course.
Complaining just to complain?


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#36 magnus7319

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:25 PM

Since most manufacturers are going this route with almost all except their bladed or most demanding iron offerings, we're just going to be left with the easiest solution... add another gap wedge. Add in the 48 and go 48/52/56/60 or something similar.... not many people will be using a 43-ish degree wedge as a scoring club... it'll just go too far.
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#37 Yepyukon

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:25 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

 roadtrippin4550, on 07 January 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

5 iron,  24 in cf16, 23.5 in cf19.
PW, 45 in cf16, 43 in cf19.

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level.  Quite absurd.

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

Apex cf16.png
2019 Apex.png

At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.

Except that it is 10 yards longer than a traditionally-lofted 7 iron.  Same for your PW.  You suddenly have a 25 yards gap between the new PW and your 51-degree gap wedge. Then what you do?
I guess I learn to hit 3/4 shots, have the lofts bent, or buy a wedge to fill the gap?
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#38 Hawkeye77

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:21 PM

 jjfcpa, on 07 January 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

5 iron,  24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.
PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level.  Quite absurd.

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

Apex cf16.png
2019 Apex.png

You do realize that those are standard lofts but you can custom order and specify weaker or stronger lofts.  All this talk about loft jacking has me wondering if no one has every custom ordered clubs besides me?

"every custom ordered clubs"? - that explains it, if you have them all nobody else can get them!

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#39 Z1ggy16

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:24 PM

Wait, you didn't listen to the OEMs?? They have to make the lofts stronger - the design of the irons launches the ball so high that without a 27* 7i your ball will launch to Jupiter!

/s

Edited by Z1ggy16, 07 January 2019 - 03:24 PM.

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#40 Jesse Sanchez

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:26 PM

Can anyone chime in on the 19 pros Lofts? I could not see it anywhere on the website?


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#41 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:38 PM

Apex Pro 2019 Specs:
2019 Apex Pro.png

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#42 ZBigStick

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:53 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 01:46 PM, said:

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.

You  are welcome :)  It is only 7 days into the year but we have seen multiple increasing loft jacking instances in M6 (not surprising) and now Apex. Personally I am very disappointed in seeing this happen for Apex because Apex is supposed to be a PLAYER iron.  Damn it.

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#43 ChrisO72

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:54 PM

Is another way to look at it is a problem created by obsession with increasing distance and forgiveness. Either it's due to jacked lofts or just more tech in the heads meaning launch angle increases meaning lofts need lowering.

Either way the irons are going further which is always going to create gaps at the bottom of the bag because we still need to cover all the shorter yardages.

Another consequence should be it creates overlap at the top so you can drop a club there. For me I don't need a hybrid because these 4 irons are as easy to hit as a hybrid these days anyway!
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#44 autronicdsm

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:54 PM

 OutBackHack, on 07 January 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them

I just voice my opinion. As I said I am very disappointed as a owner of Apex 2014, Apex cf16, and Apex  cf 16 / pro 16. Combo set. Sad to see Callaway now goes down the wrong path. My opinion only of course.

If you can afford to buy 5 sets of irons in 5 years you can afford to have them bent to whatever loft you want them.
It's not that big of a deal.

You're right, except you can't bend these 4* weaker.

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#45 CaseyDan

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:58 PM

It's interesting.  The Apex specs we are all going from are provided by My Golf Spy, not Callaway.  What if their information is not correct?  I still haven't seen any "official" information from Callaway posted in regards to the lofts.

In the standard 2019 standard Apex irons the lofts they list are 0.5* stronger in the 4-8 irons vs the CF16's.  Then it goes a little crazy.  

2019 Apex is:
1.5* stronger in the 9 iron
2* stronger in the PW
2* stronger in the AW
1* stronger in the GW

this is in comparison to the CF16.

Plus, why would an OEM make so many of their lofts in a set of irons at a 1/2 degree.

And no, I am not a Callaway hater. Big fan. Already ordered a set.  Just throwing this thought out there since it crossed my mind.

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#46 rtraudt

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:00 PM

Alternative solution...buy a set of National Custom Works irons, have them stamped with the loft in numbers or something arbitrary but unique to you, and hit whatever club a given shot calls for.  Subsequently confuse your playing partners when you respond to their inquires about club selection with "I hit my 24 degree" or "I hit my B club."  After all, the numbers on the bottom of these clubs is completely arbitrary anyways.
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#47 GoGoErky

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:05 PM

 CaseyDan, on 07 January 2019 - 04:58 PM, said:

It's interesting.  The Apex specs we are all going from are provided by My Golf Spy, not Callaway.  What if their information is not correct?  I still haven't seen any "official" information from Callaway posted in regards to the lofts.

In the standard 2019 standard Apex irons the lofts they list are 0.5* stronger in the 4-8 irons vs the CF16's.  Then it goes a little crazy.  

2019 Apex is:
1.5* stronger in the 9 iron
2* stronger in the PW
2* stronger in the AW
1* stronger in the GW

this is in comparison to the CF16.

Plus, why would an OEM make so many of their lofts in a set of irons at a 1/2 degree.

And no, I am not a Callaway hater. Big fan. Already ordered a set.  Just throwing this thought out there since it crossed my mind.

Considering they were amongst the multitude of golf folks that were at the launch they probably have the right info

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#48 Joker91

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:06 PM

 autronicdsm, on 07 January 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

 OutBackHack, on 07 January 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them

I just voice my opinion. As I said I am very disappointed as a owner of Apex 2014, Apex cf16, and Apex  cf 16 / pro 16. Combo set. Sad to see Callaway now goes down the wrong path. My opinion only of course.

If you can afford to buy 5 sets of irons in 5 years you can afford to have them bent to whatever loft you want them.
It's not that big of a deal.

You're right, except you can't bend these 4* weaker.
You're buying the wrong thing if you need to bend them 4°

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#49 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:15 PM

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

 autronicdsm, on 07 January 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

 OutBackHack, on 07 January 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

 Joker91, on 07 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

If they aren't what you want, don't buy them

I just voice my opinion. As I said I am very disappointed as a owner of Apex 2014, Apex cf16, and Apex  cf 16 / pro 16. Combo set. Sad to see Callaway now goes down the wrong path. My opinion only of course.

If you can afford to buy 5 sets of irons in 5 years you can afford to have them bent to whatever loft you want them.
It's not that big of a deal.

You're right, except you can't bend these 4* weaker.
You're buying the wrong thing if you need to bend them 4

Exactly my point! By jacking up lofts, Apex irons turn from RIGHT thing to OK thing for some, and from OK thing to WRONG thing for some others.


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#50 Joker91

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:27 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 05:15 PM, said:

Exactly my point! By jacking up lofts, Apex irons turn from RIGHT thing to OK thing for some, and from OK thing to WRONG thing for some others.
So you buy something different that's right for you. Your point is bad

Edited by Joker91, 07 January 2019 - 05:27 PM.


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#51 Hifade

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:39 PM

 Jagpilotohio, on 07 January 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

FIGHT THE POWER!!   SAVE TRADITIONALLY LOFTED IRONS!!!  

God forbid my buddy is going to hit his “8 iron” as far as my 34* 7 iron!  My fragile ego will NOT stand for that, damn it!!
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#52 akseem

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:42 PM

if you need to bend them 4 degrees weaker it is probably cheaper to get a label maker and cover the 7 on the bottom with a 6 and so on. it just means more wedges and the number on the bottom is no longer a universal standard, if it ever was.

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#53 CAThompsonGolf

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:59 PM

Trying to chip with these clubs must be really hard!
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#54 Bimmer1

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:59 PM

Do the lofts on the Apex CF19 have anything to do with the stock TT Elevate shaft?  Maybe the flight of the shaft works with those lofts.  Changing to a different shaft may present a problem.

24

#55 vman

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 06:52 PM

If you were buying the Apex cf19's 4-A wedge with a 52* and 58*, it seems like a good set up to me. You can fine tune gaps with a little bending. Then it's driver, 3 wood, 5 wood/hybrid....makes for a great set-up.

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#56 ChrisO72

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:23 PM

 vman, on 07 January 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

If you were buying the Apex cf19's 4-A wedge with a 52* and 58*, it seems like a good set up to me. You can fine tune gaps with a little bending. Then it's driver, 3 wood, 5 wood/hybrid....makes for a great set-up.

That's what I'm thinking too. Going to trade my 50 and 54 for a 52. They are too close anyway.
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#57 burritos4breakfast

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:23 PM

I've gone back to 14 Apex pros. Bent a Apex 4 iron weak to replace the Apex pro 4 iron and it's a great set. The gapping is better and I like the feel better than the 16 cfs and pros. Didn't like cupface it balooned too much not as purcing trajectory. I'd like to try xforged though

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#58 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:40 PM

 burritos4breakfast, on 07 January 2019 - 07:23 PM, said:

I've gone back to 14 Apex pros. Bent a Apex 4 iron weak to replace the Apex pro 4 iron and it's a great set. The gapping is better and I like the feel better than the 16 cfs and pros. Didn't like cupface it balooned too much not as purcing trajectory. I'd like to try xforged though

Definitely give xforged 18 a try. Its almost as easy to hit as cf 16. Its my current gamer and I think will stay in my bag for a while especially I have been turned off by the lofts of cf 19.

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#59 wbgfore!

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:49 AM

Really looking forward to an apex pro 19 vs x forged 18 review...hopefully someone does it.

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#60 smashdn

smashdn

    Let's cut them trees down.

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:32 PM

1988 - 2-PW - 9 clubs - $799 + 2 wedges + 2 woods + Putter
2019 - 4-PW - 7 clubs - $799 + 4 wedges + 2 woods + Putter

They can sell you an iron set with less clubs and then sell you more wedges at ~$130 per wedge.

Edited by smashdn, 08 January 2019 - 12:33 PM.


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