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Apex cf16 to Apex 2019 irons - Loft jacking continuing??


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#1 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:09 AM

5 iron,  24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.
PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level.  Quite absurd.

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

Apex cf16.png
2019 Apex.png


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#2 rbj69

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

So that is why Xander won,lol

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#3 KC13

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:21 AM

I too was was a little turned off by the loft jacking.  However, I am a low spin player and weakening the lofts a degree or two increased spin for me.  

I told the rep, Hitting a 7 iron with an over 200 yard roll out is NOT ideal for me.  I then hit a weak 7 iron and was carrying 175-185 with much more spin control on the greens.  It would land and spin/check up on me.  

Just a little perspective if it helps.  

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#4 Meanmachinemoe

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:24 AM

There's more to it than simply loft jacking. Many have accused OEM's of simply taking a lower lofted iron and putting a different number on it, i.e. 6i with a 7 on it. But, that's not the case. Not only are the lengths of the irons different but the MOI and center of gravity has been altered to achieve optimum spin, forgiveness and trajectory. Are we hitting them longer? Yes, but it's not all due to lofts being stronger. The thing that bugs me the most is what it does to the tops and bottoms of bags. These days, buying irons with modern tech requires a change in wedges and woods. For me, it may cause me to keep my irons longer to minimize cost.

Edited by Meanmachinemoe, 07 January 2019 - 11:25 AM.

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#5 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:26 AM

Bend em 2 degrees weak.  Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset.  Primo!!

Solution #2....buy the pro version.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 07 January 2019 - 11:34 AM.

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#6 ago33

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:30 AM

watch txg's youtube video on loft jacking. They tested the ping i500 power spec, regular and retro spec.

the "jacked" irons were optimal. They produced higher ball speed at the same launch angle. They produced a higher landing angle with minimal difference in spin.

its hard for you to detremine without testing
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#7 Llortamaisey

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:40 AM

I wasn’t a fan of loft jacking at first, but not because it’s fake distance. The problem I had was that irons 2 degrees stronger threw off the gapping from irons to wedges. It could also throw off the gapping between irons and hybrids depending on your bag. Now that the jacking has reached a full 4/3 degrees stronger across the board, it’s easier to blend the irons into the bag. Who gives af what number is on the bottom.

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#8 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:43 AM

ago33, on 07 January 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:


its hard for you to detremine without testing

The numbers already tell a convincing story without me testing. My current Gap Wedge is 51 degree. Tell me it will provide reasonable distance gap with the Apex 43 degree PW! I would likely need gap wedge NO 2 or to strength lofts of all my 3 wedges.

I will probably still test the new Apex 19 irons though , considering how excellent the set my cf 16 has been.

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#9 JoeJoeJoeUrBoat

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:54 AM

Jacked lofts ruin lives.
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#10 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:02 PM

 rbj69, on 07 January 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

So that is why Xander won,lol

Pure luck with the two chip-ins. I have never seen a pro chunks the driver 200 yards side way to a fairway bunker ...


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#11 rbj69

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:05 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 12:02 PM, said:

 rbj69, on 07 January 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

So that is why Xander won,lol

Pure luck with the two chip-ins. I have never seen a pro chunks the driver 200 yards side way to a fairway bunker ...
That was funny as hek and yes that chip in gave him momentum to win for sure but damn that 3 wood on the final hole was not luck,he slayed that course

Edited by rbj69, 07 January 2019 - 12:11 PM.


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#12 CaseyDan

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:40 PM

I just placed my order today for the Apex 19ís. Tested them last Friday and really liked them but didnít order that day because my ego/hard headedness wouldnít let me order 5-GW as Iíve always played 4-PW the 52/58.

Had a long discussion with my golf ego this weekend. Left my ego at home this morning and placed my order. Going to bend the GW to 47 and stick with my trusty 52/58.

Everything in our lives change - my guess is that no one on this forum took a horse and buggy to work today.


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#13 gator022

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:41 PM

For most of us, we'd just be best to buy 5-GW, then go 52, 56, 60 at the bottom of the bag.  Throw a hybrid in that's 18-20*, a 3 wood, and driver and call it a day.

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#14 dlygrisse

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:55 PM

Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.
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#15 dlygrisse

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:02 PM

 Jagpilotohio, on 07 January 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Bend em 2 degrees weak.  Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset.  Primo!!

Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs
#5 buy a set of Mizuno blades.
#6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

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#16 CAThompsonGolf

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:04 PM

How jacked up are the lofts on the Ď19 Apex Pro?
KING LTD PRO HZRDUS 6.5
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Tour Edge CB Pro U Kuro Kage 90 X
PING S55 3-PW TI DG X100 PURE'D
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#17 Jagpilotohio

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    45+ inch drivers are evil.

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:05 PM

FIGHT THE POWER!!   SAVE TRADITIONALLY LOFTED IRONS!!!  

God forbid my buddy is going to hit his ď8 ironĒ  as far as my 34* 7 iron!  My fragile ego will NOT stand for that!!   ; )

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 07 January 2019 - 07:22 PM.

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#18 GoGoErky

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:09 PM

As mentioned itís more thank just jacking lofts. I donít care how it changes my bag as Iíll adjust what I need on either end.

My beef is the avg consumer who is fooled by it all.

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#19 vanillafunk616

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:17 PM

They need to go ahead and write pw on their 3 iron and be done with it.  That's the end game.

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#20 CircleC29

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:17 PM

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

 Jagpilotohio, on 07 January 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

Im going with option #3

Contents of bag subject to change.

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#21 dlygrisse

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:20 PM

 CircleC29, on 07 January 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

 Jagpilotohio, on 07 January 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

Im going with option #3

Apparently #3 is to be fooled by it all.  Because we are all too stupid to figure it out.
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#22 GSDriver

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:22 PM

Most all OEMs have loft jacked in the last 5 years.

Personally, I don't care, as doesn't matter what club I hit, as long as goes where I expect, that's what matters.

Can always go combo set or Pros, or bend if makes you feel better.

I still contend that the OEMs engineer their clubs to perform and based on design criteria may adjust lofts to provide desired ball flight characteristics.
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#23 carrier street

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:23 PM

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

 Jagpilotohio, on 07 January 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Bend em 2 degrees weak.  Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset.  Primo!!

Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs
#5 buy a set of Mizuno blades.
#6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

I don't know man. My MP-18s have a 46 degree PW.
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#24 CircleC29

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:27 PM

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

 CircleC29, on 07 January 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

 Jagpilotohio, on 07 January 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.
Im going with option #3
Apparently #3 is to be fooled by it all. Because we are all too stupid to figure it out.

I just looked at it as the option to do nothing lol
Contents of bag subject to change.

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#25 jas904

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:30 PM

That's it enough is enough.  I am going with Hogan Apex.  I'll be rocking my 50* PW!

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#26 jjfcpa

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:36 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

5 iron,  24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.
PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level.  Quite absurd.

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

Apex cf16.png
2019 Apex.png

You do realize that those are standard lofts but you can custom order and specify weaker or stronger lofts.  All this talk about loft jacking has me wondering if no one has every custom ordered clubs besides me?

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#27 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:46 PM

 dlygrisse, on 07 January 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.

You  are welcome :)  It is only 7 days into the year but we have seen multiple increasing loft jacking instances in M6 (not surprising) and now Apex. Personally I am very disappointed in seeing this happen for Apex because Apex is supposed to be a PLAYER iron.  Damn it.

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#28 roadtrippin4550

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:54 PM

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

5 iron,  24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.
PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level.  Quite absurd.

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

Apex cf16.png
2019 Apex.png

At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.
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Irons: Mizuno MP-15 - Nippon Modus Tour 130X
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Wedge: Cleveland RTX-4 56* Mid - KBS $-Taper 130X
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#29 golfer55082

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:01 PM

 roadtrippin4550, on 07 January 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

 golfer55082, on 07 January 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

5 iron,  24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.
PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level.  Quite absurd.

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

Apex cf16.png
2019 Apex.png

At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.

Except that it is 10 yards longer than a traditionally-lofted 7 iron.  Same for your PW.  You suddenly have a 25 yards gap between the new PW and your 51-degree gap wedge. Then what you do?

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#30 dlygrisse

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:02 PM

I used to have an old set of Spalding irons, had to be from the 1940's or 50's, early matched set....2-9 iron.  the 9 iron was around 52 degrees I think. (who knows if it was at original specs)

The original matched sets were 1,2,3,4 wood.  1-9 iron and putter.  14 clubs.  

Loft jacking started many years ago, it's just come to the point, with modern tech that it has to quit at some point.  

It seems were are coming full circle, instead of buying a matched set we will soon be buying the entire set 1 club at a time like hickories.  Based on loft or carry yardage.

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Odyssey Pro #1 black
Jones Utility
Ball, KSig or a bunch of ProV's I won in a charity scramble.  
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

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