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Mike Davis to turn over US Open setup duties


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#31 OldTomMorris

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:42 AM

View PostHawkeye77, on 03 January 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

Boy do I hope this frees him up to start tweeting at Poulter!

A Twitter war between Poulter and Mike Davis, unlikely but could be amusing.

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#32 Hawkeye77

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:44 AM

View PostOldTomMorris, on 04 January 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

View PostHawkeye77, on 03 January 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

Boy do I hope this frees him up to start tweeting at Poulter!

A Twitter war between Poulter and Mike Davis, unlikely but could be amusing.

And may turn out like it did for that other guy, lol.

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#33 lchang

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:41 AM

View PostLoki, on 03 January 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

Let's do this...since Mike Davis started setting up US Opens, who was prevented from winning? I will say no one, you play the course presented. It's like all the B.S. Zach Johnson gets for winning The Masters when he did, at 1 over (?). Really? He played the course better than anyone else and gets criticized for it? ROFL, how stupid.

Well Davis himself apologized for the Saturday setup at Shinnecock. He admitted that the morning guys had an enormous advantage over the late guys (the numbers were obvious) and it wasn’t because a British Open style storm blew through—it was completely predictable.

So, yeah, a bad setup:  one where luck becomes too dominant a factor or one where unfairness (as in this case) is built in.

Edited by lchang, 04 January 2019 - 08:42 AM.


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#34 smashdn

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:03 AM

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

I agree with this.  Good golf from tee to green.  Putting was the issue there.

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#35 OldTomMorris

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:59 AM

View Postsmashdn, on 04 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

I agree with this.  Good golf from tee to green.  Putting was the issue there.

+1 on that.
I was really looking forward to the US Open there having watched the US Amateur at that venue. A real shame it was marred by the issues with the greens.

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#36 Loki

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:13 PM

View Postlchang, on 04 January 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

View PostLoki, on 03 January 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

Let's do this...since Mike Davis started setting up US Opens, who was prevented from winning? I will say no one, you play the course presented. It's like all the B.S. Zach Johnson gets for winning The Masters when he did, at 1 over (?). Really? He played the course better than anyone else and gets criticized for it? ROFL, how stupid.

Well Davis himself apologized for the Saturday setup at Shinnecock. He admitted that the morning guys had an enormous advantage over the late guys (the numbers were obvious) and it wasn’t because a British Open style storm blew through—it was completely predictable.

So, yeah, a bad setup:  one where luck becomes too dominant a factor or one where unfairness (as in this case) is built in.

Yes, but Brooks was the best golfer out there that week right?

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#37 ChristopherMcDonald

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:44 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 03 January 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

View Posttiderider, on 03 January 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 03 January 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

When was the last open without setup drama?  The greens at Chambers Bay, the hay at Erin Hills, Oakmont and Shinnecock greens nearly lost and so fast they were unstable to mark and replace.  It's a shame that the national open is geared to generate drama not champions.  At least Pebble should be pretty easy, they do host an event every year.

oakmont wasn't an issue, set up wise ... only issue was the idiotic way they handled dj's ball movement ...

far as davis is concerned, i'll assume the usga is still run by a group of people that want to take center stage whenever they can ...

That's because Oakmont doesn't hand over the reins to nobody.  They are the Leonard Washington of golf clubs."   If you want to take over this course , you gonna have to shoot me ".  Something along those lines.

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#38 mosesgolf

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:45 PM

J. Bod will check with MD before doing anything anyways.  No change when you get to handpick your successor.
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#39 Edaw68

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:25 PM

I wonder if his stance on ball roll back will change now that his number one duty/priority isn't dealing with setting a course up for pros.  I think he ignored what actually happens in the amateur game when focused on that.

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#40 Jackhammer993

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:38 PM

Well Brooks Koepka will be upset. I for one am happy to see Mike Davis move on. He had his time but his style ran its course. Time to get back to making the US Open great again.


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#41 Matt J

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:39 PM

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 03 January 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

When was the last open without setup drama?  The greens at Chambers Bay, the hay at Erin Hills, Oakmont and Shinnecock greens nearly lost and so fast they were unstable to mark and replace.  It's a shame that the national open is geared to generate drama not champions.  At least Pebble should be pretty easy, they do host an event every year.

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

That decision was made by the USGA's US Open setup team not Chambers Bay.  It was made with direct opposition from the course's designer and superintendent.  Faced with the impossible decision of grow fescue and add Tiger's bunker or lose the Open, well the rest is history...

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#42 gvogel

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:32 AM

View PostEdaw68, on 04 January 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

I wonder if his stance on ball roll back will change now that his number one duty/priority isn't dealing with setting a course up for pros.  I think he ignored what actually happens in the amateur game when focused on that.

I think that he now goes full tilt boogie on an equipment roll back - for elite golfers.
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#43 MtlJeff

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:54 AM

View PostEdaw68, on 04 January 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

I wonder if his stance on ball roll back will change now that his number one duty/priority isn't dealing with setting a course up for pros.  I think he ignored what actually happens in the amateur game when focused on that.

With what he's said he's too invested in his position. And I don't think he'll ever truly care about amateurs. Optics of the pro game are all that matter to him based on his actions
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#44 Edaw68

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:02 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 05 January 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

View PostEdaw68, on 04 January 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

I wonder if his stance on ball roll back will change now that his number one duty/priority isn't dealing with setting a course up for pros.  I think he ignored what actually happens in the amateur game when focused on that.

With what he's said he's too invested in his position. And I don't think he'll ever truly care about amateurs. Optics of the pro game are all that matter to him based on his actions

Unfortunately you’re probably right.

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#45 BNGL

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:11 PM

View PostMatt J, on 04 January 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 03 January 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

When was the last open without setup drama?  The greens at Chambers Bay, the hay at Erin Hills, Oakmont and Shinnecock greens nearly lost and so fast they were unstable to mark and replace.  It's a shame that the national open is geared to generate drama not champions.  At least Pebble should be pretty easy, they do host an event every year.

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

That decision was made by the USGA's US Open setup team not Chambers Bay.  It was made with direct opposition from the course's designer and superintendent.  Faced with the impossible decision of grow fescue and add Tiger's bunker or lose the Open, well the rest is history...

What decisions specifically?


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#46 CasualLie

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:18 PM

View PostEdaw68, on 05 January 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 05 January 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

View PostEdaw68, on 04 January 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

I wonder if his stance on ball roll back will change now that his number one duty/priority isn't dealing with setting a course up for pros.  I think he ignored what actually happens in the amateur game when focused on that.

With what he's said he's too invested in his position. And I don't think he'll ever truly care about amateurs. Optics of the pro game are all that matter to him based on his actions

Unfortunately you’re probably right.

Yes, very right unfortunately.

I don't blame him for US Open setups.  It's not like he is a one many show.  It's the protecting par attitude that the USGA leadership embraces that started the shenanigans at US Open setups a long time ago.  Back in the day when US Open setups were not newsworthy, par didn't need protecting..then Tiger and a crop of great golfers comes along and all of the sudden "oh no!  they are breaking par!"  Remember when all you had to do to toughen up a course was pinch in the fairways and grow the rough?

USGA is out of touch with reality.  If Davis gets his way, you just may see bifurcation and that would be a sad day in golf.

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#47 Matt J

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 07:02 PM

Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming Mike Davis.  The whole thing probably began at Oakland Hills in '51.  But, some discretion should be used as we move forward.  I don't know what the scores would have been at Chambers Bay if they had simply allowed RTJ II to set up the course.  Considering his dad and brother were both "open doctors" and they are the most prolific family of GCAs ever, I can only imagine he understands the concept of "protecting par."


Chambers has a ton of severe contours, I think Bob Jones would have used pin positions to accomplish the same thing without costing the course millions of dollars.


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#48 Matt J

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 07:11 PM

View PostBNGL, on 05 January 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 04 January 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 03 January 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

When was the last open without setup drama?  The greens at Chambers Bay, the hay at Erin Hills, Oakmont and Shinnecock greens nearly lost and so fast they were unstable to mark and replace.  It's a shame that the national open is geared to generate drama not champions.  At least Pebble should be pretty easy, they do host an event every year.

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

That decision was made by the USGA's US Open setup team not Chambers Bay.  It was made with direct opposition from the course's designer and superintendent.  Faced with the impossible decision of grow fescue and add Tiger's bunker or lose the Open, well the rest is history...

What decisions specifically?

The USGA insisted that CB fight the poa annua infestation which is endemic to the west coast and then mow the greens to "US Open" stimp speeds.  What resulted was bumpy and inconsistent mostly dirt greens.  Basically they held the greens to a Parkland standard rather than simply playing them at tournament speeds for a links course.

They are currently in the process of a quarter million dollar attempt to fix it.

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#49 lowheel

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:37 PM

Posted Image

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#50 lowheel

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:39 PM

View PostMatt J, on 05 January 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 05 January 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 04 January 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 03 January 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

When was the last open without setup drama?  The greens at Chambers Bay, the hay at Erin Hills, Oakmont and Shinnecock greens nearly lost and so fast they were unstable to mark and replace.  It's a shame that the national open is geared to generate drama not champions.  At least Pebble should be pretty easy, they do host an event every year.

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

That decision was made by the USGA's US Open setup team not Chambers Bay.  It was made with direct opposition from the course's designer and superintendent.  Faced with the impossible decision of grow fescue and add Tiger's bunker or lose the Open, well the rest is history...

What decisions specifically?

The USGA insisted that CB fight the poa annua infestation which is endemic to the west coast and then mow the greens to "US Open" stimp speeds.  What resulted was bumpy and inconsistent mostly dirt greens.  Basically they held the greens to a Parkland standard rather than simply playing them at tournament speeds for a links course.

They are currently in the process of a quarter million dollar attempt to fix it.

It happens and has happened going back more than 30-40 years.Remember the pga at riviera in 95?


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#51 BNGL

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:45 PM

View PostMatt J, on 05 January 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 05 January 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 04 January 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 03 January 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

When was the last open without setup drama?  The greens at Chambers Bay, the hay at Erin Hills, Oakmont and Shinnecock greens nearly lost and so fast they were unstable to mark and replace.  It's a shame that the national open is geared to generate drama not champions.  At least Pebble should be pretty easy, they do host an event every year.

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

That decision was made by the USGA's US Open setup team not Chambers Bay.  It was made with direct opposition from the course's designer and superintendent.  Faced with the impossible decision of grow fescue and add Tiger's bunker or lose the Open, well the rest is history...

What decisions specifically?

The USGA insisted that CB fight the poa annua infestation which is endemic to the west coast and then mow the greens to "US Open" stimp speeds.  What resulted was bumpy and inconsistent mostly dirt greens.  Basically they held the greens to a Parkland standard rather than simply playing them at tournament speeds for a links course.

They are currently in the process of a quarter million dollar attempt to fix it.

I misread your original messages...I assumed you meant that the USGA insist on growing fescue grass wall to wall when it was built.

Chambers was an unfortunate amalgam of mistakes that were compounded by weather. As a sup that’s been a part of setups, something’s are out of your control. Mall rat is very smart and fairly well versed (far more than I) in regards to the agronomical disaster that was Chambers Bay.

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#52 Pingfitz

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:50 PM

Good, but the USGA's ego won't change... they want to be the show, not the golf.

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#53 just plain bill

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 10:09 PM

i like to see excellence in sports. the us open is torture to watch due to course setup (and joe buck, lol)  i hope they make some changes. (in the booth as well)
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#54 ThinkingPlus

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:05 PM

Inconceivable!
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#55 2putttom

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:47 PM

View Postcaniac6, on 03 January 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:

Don't screw it up, John!
ya know Davis has Bodenhamer in his back pocket.

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#56 Holy Moses

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:03 AM

View Postsmashdn, on 04 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

View PostKrazyTrain18, on 04 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

Chambers Bay was setup very well, the greens were the result of an unfortunate decision to try to grow fescue greens.

I agree with this.  Good golf from tee to green.  Putting was the issue there.

But putting was a huge issue at the 2015 US Open
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#57 Ghostwedge

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:45 PM

I fly out to Seattle once a year and played Chambers Bay and other area courses. Always have great weather in the early fall and enjoy the views. The USGA owes the NW another Major, preferrably at Chambers Bay.



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#58 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:51 PM

Will he take a pay cut from his $860K salary now that he given up a fair portion of his job? Or perhaps he'll just step up other duties such as our friend MtlJeff said, ruining the game for amateurs.

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 06 January 2019 - 01:28 PM.


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#59 Mr. Hogan

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:36 PM

The USGA cant hold an awards ceremony without screwing it up. Why would we expect anything different for course set up?

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#60 smashdn

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    Let's cut them trees down.

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:03 PM

View PostGhostwedge, on 06 January 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

I fly out to Seattle once a year and played Chambers Bay and other area courses. Always have great weather in the early fall and enjoy the views. The USGA owes the NW another Major, preferrably at Chambers Bay.

I would be on-board with this.  I thought the optics and how it looked on tv were great, aside from the putting issues, which can be and may already be, fixed.

The only other issue I had was that at times the ball is hard to follow on the browned out fairways versus verdant green ones.  That is an issue I occasionally have with Open venues as well.

The golf on the course should be the primary concern, the spectators at the course should be secondary and further down the list the tv viewer.  That is just an opinion.

Erin Hills in August might be a treat.  All that fescue browned out and thinned out.  You wouldn't have hay but hopefully thin and playable rough were you would really have to evaluate and play for the lie.

IMO, pinching the fairways and growing the rough is dumbed down golf that is not enjoyable to watch save for the folks who want to see the pros punished.  They are long enough that iron off the tee is mostly a given.

At least the last few set ups were done where a choice or two off the tee were there to be made.


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