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Progressive Swing Weight


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#1 krisbrook9

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:58 PM

Going to work with my club fitter/builder to make some new irons that are progressively weighted.  Based on my research on this forum I think I have it figured out for the most part but do have a few questions.

Here is the setup I am looking at having built:

Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 shafts

Iron  SW      Length
2i     D1.5    38 6/8
3i     D2       38 3/8
4i     D2.5    38  
5i     D3       37 5/8
6i     D3.5    37 2/8
7i     D4       36 7/8
8i     D4.5    36 4/8
9i     D5       36 1/8
PW  D5.5    35 6/8
GW  D5.5   35 6/8
SW  D8       35 6/8
LW   D8      35 6/8   

Here are my questions:

(1)  Would using the Dynamic Gold AMT Tour White X100 shafts make the progressive swing weight process easier for the club builder?

(2)  I like my wedges all the same length so am I correct that if my PW & GW are the same length they should have the same swing weight in order to get the same feel/MOI?

(3)  I very rarely hit my SW & LW with a full swing and that is why I have a heavier swing weight.  However, I do like a softer shaft feel for these non-full swings, so would you recommend I put a S400 shaft or X100 8 iron shaft in for these two wedges?

Any other thoughts or comments would be appreciated.  Thanks

Edited by krisbrook9, 02 January 2019 - 02:12 PM.


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#2 Stuart G.

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:03 PM

1 - no.    AMT's (like most shafts) are designed to give a SW matched set with 'standard' head weights and 'standard' length increments.

2 - Yes (assuming the same shaft and grip).

3 - Possibly.  But unfortunately, that's something you can only figure out whether it will work by giving it a try.

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#3 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:10 PM

1.  No. The lighter long iron shafts in AMT are made tip heavy to allow for “normal” length and normal SW builds without adding extra tip weight.
You can certainly use AMT if you like, but they won’t matter for what you want to do.

2.yes

3. S400 is fine in wedges.  Super popular with pros and good Ams.  There is a reason for that. Just go with it.


Edit.... ah!  LOL!  Stuart beat me to the post.  ; )

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 02 January 2019 - 02:11 PM.

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#4 Cwebb

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:47 PM

Since you're using ascending weight shafts, you might consider dropping the 1/2 swing-weight progression per 3/8".

Ascending weight shafts are primarily designed, so that we don't have to change head weights as much, in order to get close to an MOI match.

Otherwise, you might find that a 4i at D2 "plays" or swings noticeably lighter than a 7i at D4, with those shafts

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#5 krisbrook9

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:36 PM

Got it, so there really is no benefit to the AMT shafts for what I want to do.  I assume the weight discrepancy in the AMT shafts is not enough to make it an MOI match on its own?  If so, probably best just to stick with DG X100 and do the half swingweight by 3/8” progression.

Edited by krisbrook9, 02 January 2019 - 04:02 PM.


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#6 Cwebb

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 04:06 PM

Yeah there is a benefit.  You can get really close to both an MOI match and a swing-weight match with the Ascending weight shafts.

They create a better balance to an MOI matched set, where the longer irons don't feel "head light" as compared to the shorter clubs feeling more "head heavy".  Some would call it the best of both "concepts".

With the AMT shafts, I'd do a swing-weight match with 3/8" increments, which will get you close enough (for most players) to an MOI match.......as long as the test club that you're basing the build on, is a good fit

Edited by Cwebb, 02 January 2019 - 04:09 PM.


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#7 krisbrook9

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:02 PM

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yeah there is a benefit.  You can get really close to both an MOI match and a swing-weight match with the Ascending weight shafts.

They create a better balance to an MOI matched set, where the longer irons don't feel "head light" as compared to the shorter clubs feeling more "head heavy".  Some would call it the best of both "concepts".

With the AMT shafts, I'd do a swing-weight match with 3/8" increments, which will get you close enough (for most players) to an MOI match.......as long as the test club that you're basing the build on, is a good fit

Thanks for all the feedback.  This does sound like the best of both worlds.  So in my specs listed above the lengths are in 3/8" increments and my best fit club is the 7 iron at a D4.  Therefore, if I went with the AMT shafts with the 3/8" increments I could put all the irons at D4 (except for the SW & LW) and they would be close to MOI?

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#8 Cwebb

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:53 PM

View Postkrisbrook9, on 02 January 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yeah there is a benefit.  You can get really close to both an MOI match and a swing-weight match with the Ascending weight shafts.

They create a better balance to an MOI matched set, where the longer irons don't feel "head light" as compared to the shorter clubs feeling more "head heavy".  Some would call it the best of both "concepts".

With the AMT shafts, I'd do a swing-weight match with 3/8" increments, which will get you close enough (for most players) to an MOI match.......as long as the test club that you're basing the build on, is a good fit

Thanks for all the feedback.  This does sound like the best of both worlds.  So in my specs listed above the lengths are in 3/8" increments and my best fit club is the 7 iron at a D4.  Therefore, if I went with the AMT shafts with the 3/8" increments I could put all the irons at D4 (except for the SW & LW) and they would be close to MOI?

Yes.  May not want to jump up 4 swing weights on the wedges, unless you already know that's a great fit.  I'd lean more towards D6 or so.

If you want to split hairs, maybe do the Pw/Gw at D4.5 or D5, if you're using the same "discreet length" shaft as the 9i...like is usually done with Dynamic Golds

Edited by Cwebb, 02 January 2019 - 05:56 PM.


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#9 krisbrook9

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:25 PM

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 02 January 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yeah there is a benefit.  You can get really close to both an MOI match and a swing-weight match with the Ascending weight shafts.

They create a better balance to an MOI matched set, where the longer irons don't feel "head light" as compared to the shorter clubs feeling more "head heavy".  Some would call it the best of both "concepts".

With the AMT shafts, I'd do a swing-weight match with 3/8" increments, which will get you close enough (for most players) to an MOI match.......as long as the test club that you're basing the build on, is a good fit

Thanks for all the feedback.  This does sound like the best of both worlds.  So in my specs listed above the lengths are in 3/8" increments and my best fit club is the 7 iron at a D4.  Therefore, if I went with the AMT shafts with the 3/8" increments I could put all the irons at D4 (except for the SW & LW) and they would be close to MOI?

Yes.  May not want to jump up 4 swing weights on the wedges, unless you already know that's a great fit.  I'd lean more towards D6 or so.

If you want to split hairs, maybe do the Pw/Gw at D4.5 or D5, if you're using the same "discreet length" shaft as the 9i...like is usually done with Dynamic Golds

I would like to have the PW/GW at roughly the same MOI as the rest of the irons as I do tend to hit those with a full swing.  So, if I wanted the PW/GW with roughly the same MOI as the rest of the set then I would need to make the swing weight D4.5 - 5.0 even though the length is 3/8" shorter than the 9 iron?

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#10 Cwebb

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:40 PM

View Postkrisbrook9, on 02 January 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 02 January 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yeah there is a benefit.  You can get really close to both an MOI match and a swing-weight match with the Ascending weight shafts.

They create a better balance to an MOI matched set, where the longer irons don't feel "head light" as compared to the shorter clubs feeling more "head heavy".  Some would call it the best of both "concepts".

With the AMT shafts, I'd do a swing-weight match with 3/8" increments, which will get you close enough (for most players) to an MOI match.......as long as the test club that you're basing the build on, is a good fit

Thanks for all the feedback.  This does sound like the best of both worlds.  So in my specs listed above the lengths are in 3/8" increments and my best fit club is the 7 iron at a D4.  Therefore, if I went with the AMT shafts with the 3/8" increments I could put all the irons at D4 (except for the SW & LW) and they would be close to MOI?

Yes.  May not want to jump up 4 swing weights on the wedges, unless you already know that's a great fit.  I'd lean more towards D6 or so.

If you want to split hairs, maybe do the Pw/Gw at D4.5 or D5, if you're using the same "discreet length" shaft as the 9i...like is usually done with Dynamic Golds

I would like to have the PW/GW at roughly the same MOI as the rest of the irons as I do tend to hit those with a full swing.  So, if I wanted the PW/GW with roughly the same MOI as the rest of the set then I would need to make the swing weight D4.5 - 5.0 even though the length is 3/8" shorter than the 9 iron?

Yeah, because if you're using the same shaft in those as the 9i, (which is normal for DG's unless soft-stepping), the ascending shaft weight will have stopped at the 9i.  So to "make up" for that slight MOI loss, you could go a little heavier in the heads


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#11 krisbrook9

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:21 PM

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 02 January 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 02 January 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 02 January 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yeah there is a benefit.  You can get really close to both an MOI match and a swing-weight match with the Ascending weight shafts.

They create a better balance to an MOI matched set, where the longer irons don't feel "head light" as compared to the shorter clubs feeling more "head heavy".  Some would call it the best of both "concepts".

With the AMT shafts, I'd do a swing-weight match with 3/8" increments, which will get you close enough (for most players) to an MOI match.......as long as the test club that you're basing the build on, is a good fit

Thanks for all the feedback.  This does sound like the best of both worlds.  So in my specs listed above the lengths are in 3/8" increments and my best fit club is the 7 iron at a D4.  Therefore, if I went with the AMT shafts with the 3/8" increments I could put all the irons at D4 (except for the SW & LW) and they would be close to MOI?

Yes.  May not want to jump up 4 swing weights on the wedges, unless you already know that's a great fit.  I'd lean more towards D6 or so.

If you want to split hairs, maybe do the Pw/Gw at D4.5 or D5, if you're using the same "discreet length" shaft as the 9i...like is usually done with Dynamic Golds

I would like to have the PW/GW at roughly the same MOI as the rest of the irons as I do tend to hit those with a full swing.  So, if I wanted the PW/GW with roughly the same MOI as the rest of the set then I would need to make the swing weight D4.5 - 5.0 even though the length is 3/8" shorter than the 9 iron?

Yeah, because if you're using the same shaft in those as the 9i, (which is normal for DG's unless soft-stepping), the ascending shaft weight will have stopped at the 9i.  So to "make up" for that slight MOI loss, you could go a little heavier in the heads

Thanks for all the help, one more follow-up question.  In my research I saw a post about the 3/8" increments with the AMT shafts with one more caveat.  That the heads needs to have a 7 gram weight difference between them in order to get the MOI/MBI to roughly match.  Is that a true statement?

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#12 Cwebb

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:54 PM

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

[
Thanks for all the help, one more follow-up question.  In my research I saw a post about the 3/8" increments with the AMT shafts with one more caveat.  That the heads needs to have a 7 gram weight difference between them in order to get the MOI/MBI to roughly match.  Is that a true statement?

That's roughly true.  In that approach, I'd get the 7i (your test club) to your D4 target,....then forget about the swing-weight scale from there and just use exact gram weights for each head

12

#13 krisbrook9

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:38 PM

View PostCwebb, on 03 January 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

[
Thanks for all the help, one more follow-up question.  In my research I saw a post about the 3/8" increments with the AMT shafts with one more caveat.  That the heads needs to have a 7 gram weight difference between them in order to get the MOI/MBI to roughly match.  Is that a true statement?

That's roughly true.  In that approach, I'd get the 7i (your test club) to your D4 target,....then forget about the swing-weight scale from there and just use exact gram weights for each head

Thanks, which method would you recommend?

13

#14 Cwebb

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:24 PM

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 03 January 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

[
Thanks for all the help, one more follow-up question.  In my research I saw a post about the 3/8" increments with the AMT shafts with one more caveat.  That the heads needs to have a 7 gram weight difference between them in order to get the MOI/MBI to roughly match.  Is that a true statement?

That's roughly true.  In that approach, I'd get the 7i (your test club) to your D4 target,....then forget about the swing-weight scale from there and just use exact gram weights for each head

Thanks, which method would you recommend?

I prefer exact gram weights.  With what I mentioned earlier, you could bump the Pw/Gw up to 8 grams

Edited by Cwebb, 04 January 2019 - 12:59 AM.


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#15 krisbrook9

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:58 AM

View PostCwebb, on 03 January 2019 - 10:24 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 03 January 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

[
Thanks for all the help, one more follow-up question.  In my research I saw a post about the 3/8" increments with the AMT shafts with one more caveat.  That the heads needs to have a 7 gram weight difference between them in order to get the MOI/MBI to roughly match.  Is that a true statement?

That's roughly true.  In that approach, I'd get the 7i (your test club) to your D4 target,....then forget about the swing-weight scale from there and just use exact gram weights for each head

Thanks, which method would you recommend?

I prefer exact gram weights.  With what I mentioned earlier, you could bump the Pw/Gw up to 8 grams

Thank you.  So just to make sure I understand the process:

Get the test club, 7 iron to D4 at the 36 7/8" length
Each shaft will be in 3/8" increments
Each head will have a 7 gram progression, so in essence there is a 10 gram difference between each club (7 from head and 3 from shaft)
Since the PW/GW are the same length their head weight will be the same and will be a 8 gram difference from the 9 iron

Is this correct?  Did I miss anything?

Edited by krisbrook9, 04 January 2019 - 12:42 PM.


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#16 Cwebb

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:39 PM

View Postkrisbrook9, on 04 January 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 03 January 2019 - 10:24 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 03 January 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

View Postkrisbrook9, on 03 January 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

[
Thanks for all the help, one more follow-up question.  In my research I saw a post about the 3/8" increments with the AMT shafts with one more caveat.  That the heads needs to have a 7 gram weight difference between them in order to get the MOI/MBI to roughly match.  Is that a true statement?

That's roughly true.  In that approach, I'd get the 7i (your test club) to your D4 target,....then forget about the swing-weight scale from there and just use exact gram weights for each head

Thanks, which method would you recommend?

I prefer exact gram weights.  With what I mentioned earlier, you could bump the Pw/Gw up to 8 grams

Thank you.  So just to make sure I understand the process:

Get the test club, 7 iron to D4 at the 36 7/8" length
Each shaft will be in 3/8" increments
Each head will have a 7 gram progression, so in essence there is a 10 gram difference between each club (7 from head and 3 from shaft)
Since the PW/GW are the same length their head weight will be the same and will be a 8 gram difference from the 9 iron

Is this correct?  Did I miss anything?

You got it

16

#17 Nessism

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:20 PM

Just get a swingweight scale and a selection of tip weights.  If you want to save money on tips just get the biggest they sell and hack saw them down from there to match the need for each club.
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