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Over/Under on new rules SNAFU's on tour this weekend?


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#61 rawdog

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:50 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Rawdog-

Lol. Yes. I do speak in absolutes but it's rarely on purpose. Just prone to hyperbole I guess.

It's odd how our brains think.  I agree it  an be retrained. I just question the benefit of that time wasted. It's going to be fun watching this.  If it really makes it easier more will do it.  But if it doesn't Bryson will be alone.  

I agree with you on  JT on the surface. But I'd counter With saying that Bryson is a nerd on purpose.  As in he isn't a born nerd.  He's trying very hard to be one. What we see from JT and Bryson are opposite ends of the attention spectrum.  One wanting to be cool and one being born cool and trying to play it down and " be different ". I get Brysons thinking.  I do.  I don't like to fit the mold either.  But there's a line of cutting off your nose  to spite your face as they say.  I've crossed that line myself .  Not meaning any of that as a knock on either guy.  Just an observation.

Having met the guy and walked a few holes with one of his crew during a practice round, I think the answer is somewhere between he is born that way and he is choosing to act that way. I mean, he was what 17, when he started building his own SL clubs with his coach? He copied a 180 page physics book in high school to save his parents $200. Wore a Hogan cap at age 13. That type of behavior isn't fake to me.

Does he ham it up a bit for the media? Yeah, probably. Is some of it trolling? Maybe. I mean, you saw my ugly a** putter I built. Do you know how fun it is to use that ugly rig to drop birdies? Super fun. And it's even more fun because I did it myself. I am "that guy." And yeah, sometimes I play it up because it's fun (aka ugly putter).

I totally get the cut off your nose bit... and maybe Bryson does too. How did sidesaddle work for him?

Anywho, yes, it's going to be fun. I have already informed my regular playing partner that I'd like to putt with it in and see how it goes. Going to be 50 here this weekend, so maybe I will give it a go. I take little to no time lining up putts once I get a read, so I'm not worried about asking someone to put the flagstick back in for me.


i dont mean it to be "fake"...just that its a choice... he was born a big, strong good looking dude , who is very athletic and smart..  He didnt choose the "jock " role and play power golf , super model dating , alpha male lifestyle.. he chose to be the science based guy , wear different things and down play his natural ability ...  he prefers to give credit to calculation , and i truly think hes uber talented with a golf club in his hands... and i have a suspicion that he could be greater if he let the math go and played 100% by ear... But theres nothing wrong with his results so far ... nothing but its a choice...

  What im saying is hes choosing to play down his raw talent ...  A guy like say Brian Harmon cant do that....Thats my point ..  He has god given tools of the physical variety .. he chooses to give those very little credit , and seems to truly belive his success comes from calculation..  I dont think thats true...  he maybe enhancing what he was born with ..but he isnt winning because he "maths well"... Hes winning because hes a born stud...  Hes maybe the 1st guy in sports i know of who doesnt celebrate that fact

Interesting perspective. Makes sense... thanks for elaborating. Yeah, it's kind of hard to teach the athleticism he has! And yeah, he may not have chosen a verifiable model, but he did pick a girlfriend with huge fake t****. lol.

Not my cup of tea, but hey... I've never been in his position haha.

Edited by rawdog, 02 January 2019 - 01:50 PM.

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#62 nsxguy

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:17 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two.  To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

True.  I know the basics like anybody who competes. But nobody is ever going to not call officials over.  It's plausible  deniability.... too many grey areas lurking to ever be bold enough to make any real decision yourself. If you're wrong it's either more strokes or DQ.  Too much risk and zero real reward for acting like you know.

I disagree with the idea that they are all pretty simple. There's a multi page argument between actual experts still raging over yellow and red penalty areas right now. They can't decide so how the heck am I to ever know ?

I certainly agree with you about the PROS. If I was playing for that kind of scratch no matter how much I already had in the bank I'd be calling them over all the time as well.

But c'mon with the hyperbole already.

That multi-page "argument" on the YELLOW area is about ONE specific situation that the Rules actually DO already cover but that is so different from the old Rule that some can simply not believe the difference and/or if it IS intended exactly as written why there wasn't a big deal, or an "alert" issued about it.

The RED discussion thread is ALSO about ONE specific situation that was the same with the old rules as with the new ones.
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#63 fairways4life

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:20 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

Fairways4life-

sure i can .. thats not the point...  The point is that players still call officials to Certify any penalty situation ... why ?  better safe than sorry

Your point was that the basic rules I mentioned were "not that simple." So if you can memorize them in 20 minutes, then yes, they are quite simple. It was in fact the point.

I actually agree with you on the part about pros calling in rules officials. They know the rules. But I think they have just been spooked in recent years by HD cameras zooming in and capturing every little movement. Or people watching at home and calling something in. They have millions of sets of eyes watching them take a drop, so I can understand why they want a rules official there with them. It's annoying, and I'm not saying I LIKE it. But I GET it. And none of them want to be labeled as a cheater if they were to unintentionally screw something up. They use the rules officials more for protection than for actual answers. So yes, I agree with you on the "better safe than sorry" angle.

What I can't understand is people who are serious enough about the game to compete in tournaments (and serious enough to get down to single digit handicaps) that don't take the time to learn the basic rules. I've seen guys in state mid-am qualifiers not know how to take relief from a cart path. I mean, c'mon.

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#64 nsxguy

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:26 PM

As for the flagstick in or out, recently I posted an opinion (on another thread) that the flagstick, under certain situations, might hurt as much as it might help and one guy pretty much said I was nutz.

Well, he's right of course, just not necessarily about my point about the flagstick. :taunt:

I was putting yesterday for a bit, practising 3 footers with a slight hook to them and noticed (AGAIN) that the flagstick helped keep the putt to the high side IN but (appeared to repel the ball OUT to the low side. This is, of course, on firmer putts. Those that just drop in the front lip wouldn't be affected.

Anywho, this is exactly the scenario that I first "reported" on the other thread;made even clearer by fairly routine 3-footers.

I fully expect to leave the pin in on anything outside 15-20 feet. Inside of that ? Not so sure yet. :blink:
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#65 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:53 PM

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Rawdog-

Lol. Yes. I do speak in absolutes but it's rarely on purpose. Just prone to hyperbole I guess.

It's odd how our brains think.  I agree it  an be retrained. I just question the benefit of that time wasted. It's going to be fun watching this.  If it really makes it easier more will do it.  But if it doesn't Bryson will be alone.  

I agree with you on  JT on the surface. But I'd counter With saying that Bryson is a nerd on purpose.  As in he isn't a born nerd.  He's trying very hard to be one.    What we see from JT and Bryson are opposite ends of the attention spectrum.  One wanting to be cool and one being born cool and trying to play it down and " be different ".    I get Brysons thinking.  I do.  I don't like to fit the mold either.  But there's a line of cutting off your nose  to spite your face as they say.  I've crossed that line myself .  Not meaning any of that as a knock on either guy.  Just an observation.

Having met the guy and walked a few holes with one of his crew during a practice round, I think the answer is somewhere between he is born that way and he is choosing to act that way. I mean, he was what 17, when he started building his own SL clubs with his coach? He copied a 180 page physics book in high school to save his parents $200. Wore a Hogan cap at age 13. That type of behavior isn't fake to me.

Does he ham it up a bit for the media? Yeah, probably. Is some of it trolling? Maybe. I mean, you saw my ugly a** putter I built. Do you know how fun it is to use that ugly rig to drop birdies? Super fun. And it's even more fun because I did it myself. I am "that guy." And yeah, sometimes I play it up because it's fun (aka ugly putter).

I totally get the cut off your nose bit... and maybe Bryson does too. How did sidesaddle work for him?

Anywho, yes, it's going to be fun. I have already informed my regular playing partner that I'd like to putt with it in and see how it goes. Going to be 50 here this weekend, so maybe I will give it a go. I take little to no time lining up putts once I get a read, so I'm not worried about asking someone to put the flagstick back in for me.


i dont mean it to be "fake"...just that its a choice... he was born a big, strong good looking dude , who is very athletic and smart..  He didnt choose the "jock " role and play power golf , super model dating , alpha male lifestyle.. he chose to be the science based guy , wear different things and down play his natural ability ...  he prefers to give credit to calculation , and i truly think hes uber talented with a golf club in his hands... and i have a suspicion that he could be greater if he let the math go and played 100% by ear... But theres nothing wrong with his results so far ... nothing but its a choice...

  What im saying is hes choosing to play down his raw talent ...  A guy like say Brian Harmon cant do that....Thats my point ..  He has god given tools of the physical variety .. he chooses to give those very little credit , and seems to truly belive his success comes from calculation..  I dont think thats true...  he maybe enhancing what he was born with ..but he isnt winning because he "maths well"... Hes winning because hes a born stud...  Hes maybe the 1st guy in sports i know of who doesnt celebrate that fact

Interesting perspective. Makes sense... thanks for elaborating. Yeah, it's kind of hard to teach the athleticism he has! And yeah, he may not have chosen a verifiable model, but he did pick a girlfriend with huge fake t****. lol.

Not my cup of tea, but hey... I've never been in his position haha.

Ya got me on the floatation devices mate !!  Lol

Just my thoughts. Take them for what they are.  Crap leftover from crap. Lol. For some reason I think in ď methodsĒ.  Like it canít be both or all or none. But I think itcan.  Just havenít convinced myself of it yet.  Lol

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#66 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:57 PM

View Postfairways4life, on 02 January 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

Fairways4life-

sure i can .. thats not the point...  The point is that players still call officials to Certify any penalty situation ... why ?  better safe than sorry

Your point was that the basic rules I mentioned were "not that simple." So if you can memorize them in 20 minutes, then yes, they are quite simple. It was in fact the point.

I actually agree with you on the part about pros calling in rules officials. They know the rules. But I think they have just been spooked in recent years by HD cameras zooming in and capturing every little movement. Or people watching at home and calling something in. They have millions of sets of eyes watching them take a drop, so I can understand why they want a rules official there with them. It's annoying, and I'm not saying I LIKE it. But I GET it. And none of them want to be labeled as a cheater if they were to unintentionally screw something up. They use the rules officials more for protection than for actual answers. So yes, I agree with you on the "better safe than sorry" angle.

What I can't understand is people who are serious enough about the game to compete in tournaments (and serious enough to get down to single digit handicaps) that don't take the time to learn the basic rules. I've seen guys in state mid-am qualifiers not know how to take relief from a cart path. I mean, c'mon.

The reason is lack of real benefit.  I mean sure. Youíre going to tell me a way you may use it to your advantage. And yes. Those instances pop up.  But are rare.  The truth is all you need is an official. Their word is god anyway.  So doesnít even matter if they are wrong or right unless you can hardline call them out at that moment.  Very rare.  

The guy you mentioned not knowing how to take relief. He knows.  He just wants to be told how that official wants to see it.   I Know. Iím that guy.  I donít want to leave it to someone elseís interpretation.  Just tell me where YOU want me to drop and we will all have less drama.that opinion comes from my experience when asking questions.  You can generally get 2-3 answers before they ď decide ď what the course of action is.  I had it happen twice 3 years ago on the same hole of our county am.  First with a fence that wasnít marked.  Was eventually determined OB after I was told free drop .  Lol. And then next day I hit a ball over the green and onto path then on to back steps of the clubhouse.  Was first told relief. Then told ď itís in play ď.  So I played it.  ( made par lol).  Distrust of the rules and officials is the reason.


Edit-  donít take that as arguing right and wrong. Iím not. Iím explaining the mindset.

Edited by bladehunter, 02 January 2019 - 03:09 PM.

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#67 rawdog

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:23 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Rawdog-

Lol. Yes. I do speak in absolutes but it's rarely on purpose. Just prone to hyperbole I guess.

It's odd how our brains think.  I agree it  an be retrained. I just question the benefit of that time wasted. It's going to be fun watching this.  If it really makes it easier more will do it.  But if it doesn't Bryson will be alone.  

I agree with you on  JT on the surface. But I'd counter With saying that Bryson is a nerd on purpose.  As in he isn't a born nerd.  He's trying very hard to be one. What we see from JT and Bryson are opposite ends of the attention spectrum.  One wanting to be cool and one being born cool and trying to play it down and " be different ". I get Brysons thinking.  I do.  I don't like to fit the mold either.  But there's a line of cutting off your nose  to spite your face as they say.  I've crossed that line myself .  Not meaning any of that as a knock on either guy.  Just an observation.

Having met the guy and walked a few holes with one of his crew during a practice round, I think the answer is somewhere between he is born that way and he is choosing to act that way. I mean, he was what 17, when he started building his own SL clubs with his coach? He copied a 180 page physics book in high school to save his parents $200. Wore a Hogan cap at age 13. That type of behavior isn't fake to me.

Does he ham it up a bit for the media? Yeah, probably. Is some of it trolling? Maybe. I mean, you saw my ugly a** putter I built. Do you know how fun it is to use that ugly rig to drop birdies? Super fun. And it's even more fun because I did it myself. I am "that guy." And yeah, sometimes I play it up because it's fun (aka ugly putter).

I totally get the cut off your nose bit... and maybe Bryson does too. How did sidesaddle work for him?

Anywho, yes, it's going to be fun. I have already informed my regular playing partner that I'd like to putt with it in and see how it goes. Going to be 50 here this weekend, so maybe I will give it a go. I take little to no time lining up putts once I get a read, so I'm not worried about asking someone to put the flagstick back in for me.


i dont mean it to be "fake"...just that its a choice... he was born a big, strong good looking dude , who is very athletic and smart..  He didnt choose the "jock " role and play power golf , super model dating , alpha male lifestyle.. he chose to be the science based guy , wear different things and down play his natural ability ...  he prefers to give credit to calculation , and i truly think hes uber talented with a golf club in his hands... and i have a suspicion that he could be greater if he let the math go and played 100% by ear... But theres nothing wrong with his results so far ... nothing but its a choice...

  What im saying is hes choosing to play down his raw talent ...  A guy like say Brian Harmon cant do that....Thats my point ..  He has god given tools of the physical variety .. he chooses to give those very little credit , and seems to truly belive his success comes from calculation..  I dont think thats true...  he maybe enhancing what he was born with ..but he isnt winning because he "maths well"... Hes winning because hes a born stud...  Hes maybe the 1st guy in sports i know of who doesnt celebrate that fact

Interesting perspective. Makes sense... thanks for elaborating. Yeah, it's kind of hard to teach the athleticism he has! And yeah, he may not have chosen a verifiable model, but he did pick a girlfriend with huge fake t****. lol.

Not my cup of tea, but hey... I've never been in his position haha.

Ya got me on the floatation devices mate !!  Lol

Just my thoughts. Take them for what they are.  Crap leftover from crap. Lol. For some reason I think in " methods".  Like it can't be both or all or none. But I think itcan.  Just haven't convinced myself of it yet.  Lol

Side note, if all goes well (and I probably just jinxed it), I will have some purdy looking putters coming my way - designed by me. Blades. Stay tuned.
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#68 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:35 PM

Oh wow.  Now I am looking forward to seeing that !
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#69 nsxguy

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:52 PM

View PostBenSeattle, on 06 February 2019 - 01:31 AM, said:

From Golf Digest:

https://www.golfdige...professor-shows

This contradicts what Dave Pelz claims as well as the "test" that another golf equipment website recently conducted.  And I'm with them.  Haven't we all seen plenty of nicely-struck chip shots just graze the pin and stop a foot away?  Chips that would have dropped in had there been no flag?

Sure, having the flag left in could certainly help a chip or putt that was slammed hard enough to go well beyond the cup, but that means you're expecting to hit a crappy shot, right?

Firstly, to answer your question, no, not for a certainty. And I doubt you know it either.

Anywho, the article,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

"Partnering with California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo professor Tom Mase, a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and a member of the Golf Digest Hot List Technical Advisory Panel, we sought to find out if it is in fact true that putting with the flagstick in is always better than not."

I don't recall anybody, anywhere, saying that it was ALWAYS better than not. Every time I've read about this at all the conclusion was the odds were slightly in your favor leaving the pin in.

"The results showed that with a breaking putt entering the hole from the low side, keeping the flagstick in prevents some putts from being holed. With the flagstick out, those putts are holed every time."

Bazinga. (See below)

View Postnsxguy, on 02 January 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

As for the flagstick in or out, recently I posted an opinion (on another thread) that the flagstick, under certain situations, might hurt as much as it might help and one guy pretty much said I was nutz.

Well, he's right of course, just not necessarily about my point about the flagstick. :taunt:

I was putting yesterday for a bit, practising 3 footers with a slight hook to them and noticed (AGAIN) that the flagstick helped keep the putt to the high side IN but (appeared to repel the ball OUT to the low side. This is, of course, on firmer putts. Those that just drop in the front lip wouldn't be affected.

Anywho, this is exactly the scenario that I first "reported" on the other thread;made even clearer by fairly routine 3-footers.

I fully expect to leave the pin in on anything outside 15-20 feet. Inside of that ? Not so sure yet. :blink:

“The results are intriguing and perplexing. At first, I bought into the pin helping always. ”

And once again, NOBODY said that. ;)

And BTW, when he showed the first 3 balls being repelled by the pin on the low side and then rolled those 3 again without the pin the first 2 of those 3 were going much slower that the previous 3 that missed (although the 3rd one was going the same speed as those missed).

Fortunately everybody can make their own choice. :)
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#70 Darth Putter

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:55 PM

Dustin Johnson is playing, so all guesses should be doubled.

swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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