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Over/Under on new rules SNAFU's on tour this weekend?


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#31 Shilgy

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:18 PM

View Posthalliedog, on 01 January 2019 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 01 January 2019 - 07:24 PM, said:

View Posthalliedog, on 01 January 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 01 January 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

We will see.  Can't argue with the logic I mentioned though.  People literally were up in arms over backstopping , yet this is met with open arms.  I simply don't get it. It's the exact same thing.
And banging is relative term.  I don't actually literally mean making every putt straight. I just mean they no longer need to die them in the Hole.  Just line it up on whichever edge and hit it flush.  The pin will catch it.

Blade, I'm generally in 100% agreement with you, but think you're going off the deep end a little bit with this one.  Backstopping, as I understand it, is/was against the rules, just as was leaving the flagstick in while you are on the green.  Nobody left the flagstick in because it was obvious if you breached that rule, but "backstopping" was always a grey area because it comes down to "intent"?  In this case, the rule around the flagstick is black and white - you couldn't do it after '69, now you can.
I would agree with you and add that the backstopping issue smacked of teamwork by the players in an individual game.

Perhaps by guys/gals who share the same agent?  Or have the same equipment sponsor paying them big money to represent a brand as being superior?
As fast as I know there has never been an accusation anywhere near the possible issue you bring up. Just the possibility it could happen is enough for me to want an end to it. I think it would be more likely it would be buddies helping each other out but that is no better.

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#32 lowheel

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:25 PM

View PostObee, on 31 December 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 31 December 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

None.  Players already call for an official every time they have to blow their nose, so I can’t imagine anyone will be making many rules decisions without an official walking them through it.

LOL

And soooo true.

God I hated to watch players call an official over for a drop and discuss for two minutes. Here's the way it should be for any professional taking a hazard drop the vast majority of the time (yes, there are "special" cases, but they are rare):

PLAYER: <Looks at fellow competitor and his caddie> "Hey guys, where do you think I entered? I'm thinking right about here <points to spot>?"

<Fellow competitor and caddie nod their agreement>

<Player assesses his options. Should he drop within 2 clublengths? Or should he go back on the line from the pin and where the ball entered?>

<Decides that the 2 clublength option is best.>

<Measures his two driver lengths.>

<Official walks over as he's measuring>

OFFICIAL: "Hello Mr. Tour Pro. What do we have going on here? Need any help?"

PLAYER: "Nope. I got it sir. Thanks though."

<Takes drop>

<Mutters to self>

<Shakes head at caddie for handing him the PW instead of the 9-iron on the previous shot that put him in this damn spot in the first place>

<Sticks LW to 4-feet>

<Slams LW in bag as he walks to the green>

<Caddie picks up bag, puts head down and doesn't say a word>

LOL well said. Mini tour decorum is the best. players convene if anything is funky and work it out in 99% of cases.rarely do we bring in officials.

its usually "is this good?" "yup, good"

Drops have become paranoia central for some. it slows the game so much...

Happy new year to you and yours Obee. I wish you nothing but birdies and good health this upcoming year!

Edited by lowheel, 01 January 2019 - 10:26 PM.


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#33 Obee

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:56 PM

View Postlowheel, on 01 January 2019 - 10:25 PM, said:


LOL well said. Mini tour decorum is the best. players convene if anything is funky and work it out in 99% of cases.rarely do we bring in officials.

its usually "is this good?" "yup, good"

Drops have become paranoia central for some. it slows the game so much...

Happy new year to you and yours Obee. I wish you nothing but birdies and good health this upcoming year!

Likewise, LH!!! Hope to tee it up with you some day!!
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#34 davep043

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:21 AM

View Posthalliedog, on 01 January 2019 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 01 January 2019 - 07:24 PM, said:

[I would agree with you and add that the backstopping issue smacked of teamwork by the players in an individual game.

Perhaps by guys/gals who share the same agent?  Or have the same equipment sponsor paying them big money to represent a brand as being superior?
As Jimmy Walker said on Twitter this past summer:

Quote

If you like the guy you might leave it to help on a shot,” he said.  
It was a tacit understanding to selectively give a potential advantage to some players, and deny that same advantage to others.  If player's agree not to move a ball, they are both disqualified, under the rules.  Backstopping was nothing like the revised flagstick rule, if its allowed, its allowed, simple as that.

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#35 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:26 AM

View PostShilgy, on 01 January 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Guys, the rule has been changed before with the flagstick and may be changed again. It has been allowed at Augusta before.

The rule against striking the flagstick only allowed it from '56 to '68. Before '56 it was a penalty as well.

Interesting reading here:

https://www.usga.org...to-present.html

Yep. Part of the reason Iím so against it. Theyíve already tried this. And failed.

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#36 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:27 AM

View Posthalliedog, on 01 January 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 01 January 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

We will see.  Can't argue with the logic I mentioned though.  People literally were up in arms over backstopping , yet this is met with open arms.  I simply don't get it. It's the exact same thing.
And banging is relative term.  I don't actually literally mean making every putt straight. I just mean they no longer need to die them in the Hole.  Just line it up on whichever edge and hit it flush.  The pin will catch it.

Blade, I'm generally in 100% agreement with you, but think you're going off the deep end a little bit with this one.  Backstopping, as I understand it, is/was against the rules, just as was leaving the flagstick in while you are on the green.  Nobody left the flagstick in because it was obvious if you breached that rule, but "backstopping" was always a grey area because it comes down to "intent"?  In this case, the rule around the flagstick is black and white - you couldn't do it after '69, now you can.

Iím just saying the spirit is the same. An obstruction to HELP the ball stop.
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#37 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

Justin Thomas just said ď am I going to leave it in on an 8 footer that means something ?..... no. That things coming out ď!

Itís going to be interesting.


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#38 tiderider

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:13 AM

just wait till the usga actually gets to run the tournament ... gonna be like the cuban missile crisis with back-channels and all ...

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#39 fairways4life

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:50 AM

From Golf Digest = https://www.golfdige...-more-than-most

Highlights:
  • "No one who was asked, not even the detail-oriented DeChambeau, could say he was fully informed on all the significant alterations the USGA and R&A have instituted. Only Justin Thomas, son of a PGA professional, said he’d spent meaningful time brushing up, and he wasn’t comfortable with all the nuances, either."
  • “I’ll definitely be looking into it over the next few days,” said Brandt Snedeker, admitting he hadn’t yet done his homework.
  • “I know a few of them. I don’t know many of them,” Rory McIlroy admitted. “But that’s why we have rules officials. That’s why they’re here.”
  • "Xander Schauffele was among many who worried that the incessant summoning of officials could further slow the pace of play. He said he was familiar with most of the key changes, but needed to study up."
  • “I’ve read them, but I think there’s a difference between reading them and fully understanding them,” Casey said.


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#40 rawdog

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:07 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Justin Thomas just said " am I going to leave it in on an 8 footer that means something ?..... no. That things coming out "!

It's going to be interesting.

Maybe Thomas doesn't understand the new advantage he's getting.

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#41 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM

Exactly the approach Iíd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.  To play this game well you have to be thinking fairways , greens and putts.  If youíre trying to be a rules expert you absolutely will not play to your potential.  Not enough time In j the day for both.  Point me to the rules expert ( a guy who can cite them minus a rulebook or internet connection ) who is also a plus handicap or pro..... Iíve not met this guy or gal yet.

Edited by bladehunter, 02 January 2019 - 11:11 AM.

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#42 fairways4life

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:27 AM

If you just know the following 5 things, you'll get through 99% of your rounds perfectly fine:
  • Red penalty area
  • Yellow penalty area
  • Lost ball / OB
  • Cart path relief
  • Unplayable lie
It's pretty rare to encounter a rules situation that falls outside of those. The pros have to deal with drops from bleachers, TV towers and other infrastructure which can be difficult to sort out and usually requires an official. But the rest of us are pretty safe from all that. It's really not difficult to learn those 5 things. I don't expect anyone to be a rules expert (I am not either) but everyone should know these basics. Especially those who play in tournaments (professional or otherwise).

Edited by fairways4life, 02 January 2019 - 11:29 AM.


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#43 davep043

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards areas, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two.  To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

Edited by davep043, 02 January 2019 - 12:11 PM.


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#44 Ignatius Reilly

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:04 PM

View Postfairways4life, on 02 January 2019 - 10:50 AM, said:

From Golf Digest = https://www.golfdige...-more-than-most

Highlights:
  • "No one who was asked, not even the detail-oriented DeChambeau, could say he was fully informed on all the significant alterations the USGA and R&A have instituted. Only Justin Thomas, son of a PGA professional, said he’d spent meaningful time brushing up, and he wasn’t comfortable with all the nuances, either."
  • “I’ll definitely be looking into it over the next few days,” said Brandt Snedeker, admitting he hadn’t yet done his homework.
  • “I know a few of them. I don’t know many of them,” Rory McIlroy admitted. “But that’s why we have rules officials. That’s why they’re here.”
  • "Xander Schauffele was among many who worried that the incessant summoning of officials could further slow the pace of play. He said he was familiar with most of the key changes, but needed to study up."
  • “I’ve read them, but I think there’s a difference between reading them and fully understanding them,” Casey said.

View Postdavep043, on 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two. To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the comments in the post above.

All these pros, already down in Hawaii and they're just starting to look at the new rules?

In most other professions, when you know the rules (usually laws) are going to change on a date, you spend a lot of time preparing for how you and your clients or customers are going to deal with them.

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#45 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:10 PM

View Postdavep043, on 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two.  To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

True.  I know the basics like anybody who competes. But nobody is ever going to not call officials over.  Itís plausible  deniability.... too many grey areas lurking to ever be bold enough to make any real decision yourself. If youíre wrong itís either more strokes or DQ.  Too much risk and zero real reward for acting like you know.

I disagree with the idea that they are all pretty simple. Thereís a multi page argument between actual experts still raging over yellow and red penalty areas right now. They canít decide so how the heck am I to ever know ?

Edited by bladehunter, 02 January 2019 - 12:13 PM.

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#46 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:20 PM

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Justin Thomas just said " am I going to leave it in on an 8 footer that means something ?..... no. That things coming out "!

It's going to be interesting.

Maybe Thomas doesn't understand the new advantage he's getting.

Lol. Or.... heís tried it and knows that his Brain is far too wired for a target to spend a couple years rewiring it.

We will see how long Bryson does it.

Edited by bladehunter, 02 January 2019 - 12:20 PM.

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#47 rawdog

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:24 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Justin Thomas just said " am I going to leave it in on an 8 footer that means something ?..... no. That things coming out "!

It's going to be interesting.

Maybe Thomas doesn't understand the new advantage he's getting.

Lol. Or.... he's tried it and knows that his Brain is far too wired for a target to spend a couple years rewiring it.

We will see how long Bryson does it.

Just hassling ya. Happy new year.

I guess I just don't get it. He's looking at the ball when he putts, not the cup. Can't imagine it's that big of a mental obstacle. Is he afraid the ball won't fit?

If I'm playing for millions of dollars each week, and it's an advantage to leave the stick in (which it is, as I've blathered on about), I'm damn sure going to make myself mentally comfortable doing it.


EDIT: Side note, very excited to see Bryson do it.

EDIT 2: NOW I see why Thomas wants to leave it in. He's afraid he's going to look like a weirdo.

I mean no offense, but I can't really take myself seriously if I kept the pin in,” said Justin Thomas. “I just feel like it would be very, very weird.”

https://www.golfdige...-more-than-most

Edited by rawdog, 02 January 2019 - 12:27 PM.

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#48 DavePelz4

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:24 PM

I'm just bummed that the PGA Tour is no longer going to listen to me when I'm calling in to point out potential rules infractions.

Oh...posting for a friend.

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#49 fairways4life

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:27 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two.  To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

True.  I know the basics like anybody who competes. But nobody is ever going to not call officials over.  It's plausible  deniability.... too many grey areas lurking to ever be bold enough to make any real decision yourself. If you're wrong it's either more strokes or DQ.  Too much risk and zero real reward for acting like you know.

I disagree with the idea that they are all pretty simple. There's a multi page argument between actual experts still raging over yellow and red penalty areas right now. They can't decide so how the heck am I to ever know ?

The debate about the yellow penalty area concerns one of the new 2019 rule changes. The new rule isn't entirely clear about one potential loophole. Prior to the new rule being introduced, there was no confusion about that one particular thing.

As far as the basic 5 procedures being pretty simple --- yes, they are simple to understand.

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#50 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:33 PM

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 12:24 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Justin Thomas just said " am I going to leave it in on an 8 footer that means something ?..... no. That things coming out "!

It's going to be interesting.

Maybe Thomas doesn't understand the new advantage he's getting.

Lol. Or.... he's tried it and knows that his Brain is far too wired for a target to spend a couple years rewiring it.

We will see how long Bryson does it.

Just hassling ya. Happy new year.

I guess I just don't get it. He's looking at the ball when he putts, not the cup. Can't imagine it's that big of a mental obstacle. Is he afraid the ball won't fit?

If I'm playing for millions of dollars each week, and it's an advantage to leave the stick in (which it is, as I've blathered on about), I'm damn sure going to make myself mentally comfortable doing it.


EDIT: Side note, very excited to see Bryson do it.

EDIT 2: NOW I see why Thomas wants to leave it in. He's afraid he's going to look like a weirdo.

I mean no offense, but I can't really take myself seriously if I kept the pin in,Ē said Justin Thomas. ďI just feel like it would be very, very weird.Ē

https://www.golfdige...-more-than-most

Actually ... when I putt my best itís looking at the hole for a target , A specific small target section of the hole. Then back to the ball and go.  Youíd be shocked how many times the ball rolls over the spot in the hole.    Iíve tried this on the practice green. Pin in and out. And pin in that picture is disturbed.  Now on the same note. You can look at the pin itself and hit the pin pretty often too. But when that works is for straight putts. Throw in 2 ft break and itís hard to bring that putt in dead center of the hole.  ( the pin ).   What Iím saying is good putters have a small target in their mind. Not the whole hole or general area of the hole.

Edited by bladehunter, 02 January 2019 - 12:34 PM.

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#51 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:41 PM

View Postfairways4life, on 02 January 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two.  To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

True.  I know the basics like anybody who competes. But nobody is ever going to not call officials over.  It's plausible  deniability.... too many grey areas lurking to ever be bold enough to make any real decision yourself. If you're wrong it's either more strokes or DQ.  Too much risk and zero real reward for acting like you know.

I disagree with the idea that they are all pretty simple. There's a multi page argument between actual experts still raging over yellow and red penalty areas right now. They can't decide so how the heck am I to ever know ?

The debate about the yellow penalty area concerns one of the new 2019 rule changes. The new rule isn't entirely clear about one potential loophole. Prior to the new rule being introduced, there was no confusion about that one particular thing.

As far as the basic 5 procedures being pretty simple --- yes, they are simple to understand.

This thread is about 2019.  So I assumed we knew I meant the new issues.  

I  brought up a scenario with an island green at my course. And really only got an answer I already knew.  Itís now marked yellow front and red left side and back left.  My pro thinks it may as well be marked all red now.  That part seems vague to me stilll.  But kind of makes sense since the teeth of yellow seems to be removed.   I understand the basics of the 2018 drop.   And I can read the 2019 rule. But I can also see more questions than answers with it.  If it where  simple why the large discussion ?


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#52 rawdog

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:42 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 12:24 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Justin Thomas just said " am I going to leave it in on an 8 footer that means something ?..... no. That things coming out "!

It's going to be interesting.

Maybe Thomas doesn't understand the new advantage he's getting.

Lol. Or.... he's tried it and knows that his Brain is far too wired for a target to spend a couple years rewiring it.

We will see how long Bryson does it.

Just hassling ya. Happy new year.

I guess I just don't get it. He's looking at the ball when he putts, not the cup. Can't imagine it's that big of a mental obstacle. Is he afraid the ball won't fit?

If I'm playing for millions of dollars each week, and it's an advantage to leave the stick in (which it is, as I've blathered on about), I'm damn sure going to make myself mentally comfortable doing it.


EDIT: Side note, very excited to see Bryson do it.

EDIT 2: NOW I see why Thomas wants to leave it in. He's afraid he's going to look like a weirdo.

I mean no offense, but I can't really take myself seriously if I kept the pin in," said Justin Thomas. "I just feel like it would be very, very weird."

https://www.golfdige...-more-than-most

Actually ... when I putt my best it's looking at the hole for a target , A specific small target section of the hole. Then back to the ball and go.  You'd be shocked how many times the ball rolls over the spot in the hole. I've tried this on the practice green. Pin in and out. And pin in that picture is disturbed.  Now on the same note. You can look at the pin itself and hit the pin pretty often too. But when that works is for straight putts. Throw in 2 ft break and it's hard to bring that putt in dead center of the hole.  ( the pin ).   What I'm saying is some good putters have a small target in their mind. Not the whole hole or general area of the hole.

I added "some" because I know you didn't mean good putters all do this. Because I don't :D

When I putt my best, I'm looking at a spot I want to roll the ball to, not where it's going to end up. I can visualize the ball rolling over the hole, but ultimately, I fixate on a spot (in front of the hole if downhill, beyond the hole if uphill) to roll the ball toward. Then gravity takes over. It's the basis for vector putting, and what a lot of aimpoint guys do.

I get what you are saying, and I believe when you say the "image is disturbed." I just find it hard to believe "pin in" can't become the new visualization over time. Throw in JT's quote about how it looks and it makes me think he really hasn't tried putting with the stick in like you have.

Side note, I tried looking at the hole while sidesaddle putting and holy s*** was that awful on a real course. I gave it a shot for 36 holes (everything was fine on the practice green), but I went back to looking down at the ball. My thought is that I need more practice (like months, not a few weeks) if I actually want to do it.

So I can appreciate what you're saying.

Edited by rawdog, 02 January 2019 - 12:43 PM.

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#53 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:48 PM

Rawdog-

Lol. Yes. I do speak in absolutes but itís rarely on purpose. Just prone to hyperbole I guess.

Itís odd how our brains think.  I agree it  an be retrained. I just question the benefit of that time wasted. Itís going to be fun watching this.  If it really makes it easier more will do it.  But if it doesnít Bryson will be alone.  

I agree with you on  JT on the surface. But Iíd counter With saying that Bryson is a nerd on purpose.  As in he isnít a born nerd.  Heís trying very hard to be one.    What we see from JT and Bryson are opposite ends of the attention spectrum.  One wanting to be cool and one being born cool and trying to play it down and ď be different ď.    I get Brysons thinking.  I do.  I donít like to fit the mold either.  But thereís a line of cutting off your nose  to spite your face as they say.  Iíve crossed that line myself .  Not meaning any of that as a knock on either guy.  Just an observation.
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#54 augustgolf

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:51 PM

View PostDavePelz4, on 02 January 2019 - 12:24 PM, said:

I'm just bummed that the PGA Tour is no longer going to listen to me when I'm calling in to point out potential rules infractions.

Oh...posting for a friend.

It looks like cloning technology has really advanced into the new millennium.

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#55 fairways4life

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:52 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:

View Postfairways4life, on 02 January 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 02 January 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Exactly the approach I'd take too ^^.  No point in worrying your game trying to interpret the new brain storms they have had. Just call someone over.  Most rulings take a couple attorneys and a bribe to figure out anyway.
In 2018, most of the rules anyone needed to understand were pretty simple.  Today, the exact same applies, they're generally pretty simple.  Penalty hazards, unplayable lies, immovable obstructions, lost ball, OB, those cover damn near every situation that occurs.  If a player cares, you can learn the basics in an hour or two.  To me, its ridiculous that someone who makes his living in his chosen profession CHOOSES not to learn the basic rules that govern that profession.  Don't blame the rules, blame the intentionally-ignorant players.

True.  I know the basics like anybody who competes. But nobody is ever going to not call officials over.  It's plausible  deniability.... too many grey areas lurking to ever be bold enough to make any real decision yourself. If you're wrong it's either more strokes or DQ.  Too much risk and zero real reward for acting like you know.

I disagree with the idea that they are all pretty simple. There's a multi page argument between actual experts still raging over yellow and red penalty areas right now. They can't decide so how the heck am I to ever know ?

The debate about the yellow penalty area concerns one of the new 2019 rule changes. The new rule isn't entirely clear about one potential loophole. Prior to the new rule being introduced, there was no confusion about that one particular thing.

As far as the basic 5 procedures being pretty simple --- yes, they are simple to understand.

This thread is about 2019.  So I assumed we knew I meant the new issues.  

I  brought up a scenario with an island green at my course. And really only got an answer I already knew.  It's now marked yellow front and red left side and back left.  My pro thinks it may as well be marked all red now.  That part seems vague to me stilll.  But kind of makes sense since the teeth of yellow seems to be removed.   I understand the basics of the 2018 drop.   And I can read the 2019 rule. But I can also see more questions than answers with it.  If it where  simple why the large discussion ?

The "teeth of yellow" is only removed IF this potential loophole ends up being a legal drop (the jury is still out on that; I expect it will be cleared up sometime soon). And also only when the situation makes it possible (several things have to line up just right to even make it possible). The large discussion is about that one particular situation.

I bet you can have the procedures for the 5 things I listed above memorized in 20 minutes.


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#56 DavePelz4

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:59 PM

View Postaugustgolf, on 02 January 2019 - 12:51 PM, said:

View PostDavePelz4, on 02 January 2019 - 12:24 PM, said:

I'm just bummed that the PGA Tour is no longer going to listen to me when I'm calling in to point out potential rules infractions.

Oh...posting for a friend.

It looks like cloning technology has really advanced into the new millennium.

Too many Fernandos

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#57 davep043

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:04 PM

View Postfairways4life, on 02 January 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:


The "teeth of yellow" is only removed IF this potential loophole ends up being a legal drop (the jury is still out on that; I expect it will be cleared up sometime soon). And also only when the situation makes it possible (several things have to line up just right to even make it possible). The large discussion is about that one particular situation.

I bet you can have the procedures for the 5 things I listed above memorized in 20 minutes.
And no matter what the resolution of that "loophole", you can still use the 2018 drop "back on the line" relief for a yellow penalty area without fear of being wrong.  The new rule just gives you a little leeway on either side of that line.

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#58 rawdog

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:05 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Rawdog-

Lol. Yes. I do speak in absolutes but it's rarely on purpose. Just prone to hyperbole I guess.

It's odd how our brains think.  I agree it  an be retrained. I just question the benefit of that time wasted. It's going to be fun watching this.  If it really makes it easier more will do it.  But if it doesn't Bryson will be alone.  

I agree with you on  JT on the surface. But I'd counter With saying that Bryson is a nerd on purpose.  As in he isn't a born nerd.  He's trying very hard to be one. What we see from JT and Bryson are opposite ends of the attention spectrum.  One wanting to be cool and one being born cool and trying to play it down and " be different ". I get Brysons thinking.  I do.  I don't like to fit the mold either.  But there's a line of cutting off your nose  to spite your face as they say.  I've crossed that line myself .  Not meaning any of that as a knock on either guy.  Just an observation.

Having met the guy and walked a few holes with one of his crew during a practice round, I think the answer is somewhere between he is born that way and he is choosing to act that way. I mean, he was what 17, when he started building his own SL clubs with his coach? He copied a 180 page physics book in high school to save his parents $200. Wore a Hogan cap at age 13. That type of behavior isn't fake to me.

Does he ham it up a bit for the media? Yeah, probably. Is some of it trolling? Maybe. I mean, you saw my ugly a** putter I built. Do you know how fun it is to use that ugly rig to drop birdies? Super fun. And it's even more fun because I did it myself. I am "that guy." And yeah, sometimes I play it up because it's fun (aka ugly putter).

I totally get the cut off your nose bit... and maybe Bryson does too. How did sidesaddle work for him?

Anywho, yes, it's going to be fun. I have already informed my regular playing partner that I'd like to putt with it in and see how it goes. Going to be 50 here this weekend, so maybe I will give it a go. I take little to no time lining up putts once I get a read, so I'm not worried about asking someone to put the flagstick back in for me.
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#59 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:25 PM

Fairways4life-

sure i can .. thats not the point...  The point is that players still call officials to Certify any penalty situation ... why ?  better safe than sorry
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#60 bladehunter

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:33 PM

View Postrawdog, on 02 January 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 02 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Rawdog-

Lol. Yes. I do speak in absolutes but it's rarely on purpose. Just prone to hyperbole I guess.

It's odd how our brains think.  I agree it  an be retrained. I just question the benefit of that time wasted. It's going to be fun watching this.  If it really makes it easier more will do it.  But if it doesn't Bryson will be alone.  

I agree with you on  JT on the surface. But I'd counter With saying that Bryson is a nerd on purpose.  As in he isn't a born nerd.  He's trying very hard to be one. What we see from JT and Bryson are opposite ends of the attention spectrum.  One wanting to be cool and one being born cool and trying to play it down and " be different ". I get Brysons thinking.  I do.  I don't like to fit the mold either.  But there's a line of cutting off your nose  to spite your face as they say.  I've crossed that line myself .  Not meaning any of that as a knock on either guy.  Just an observation.

Having met the guy and walked a few holes with one of his crew during a practice round, I think the answer is somewhere between he is born that way and he is choosing to act that way. I mean, he was what 17, when he started building his own SL clubs with his coach? He copied a 180 page physics book in high school to save his parents $200. Wore a Hogan cap at age 13. That type of behavior isn't fake to me.

Does he ham it up a bit for the media? Yeah, probably. Is some of it trolling? Maybe. I mean, you saw my ugly a** putter I built. Do you know how fun it is to use that ugly rig to drop birdies? Super fun. And it's even more fun because I did it myself. I am "that guy." And yeah, sometimes I play it up because it's fun (aka ugly putter).

I totally get the cut off your nose bit... and maybe Bryson does too. How did sidesaddle work for him?

Anywho, yes, it's going to be fun. I have already informed my regular playing partner that I'd like to putt with it in and see how it goes. Going to be 50 here this weekend, so maybe I will give it a go. I take little to no time lining up putts once I get a read, so I'm not worried about asking someone to put the flagstick back in for me.


i dont mean it to be "fake"...just that its a choice... he was born a big, strong good looking dude , who is very athletic and smart..  He didnt choose the "jock " role and play power golf , super model dating , alpha male lifestyle.. he chose to be the science based guy , wear different things and down play his natural ability ...  he prefers to give credit to calculation , and i truly think hes uber talented with a golf club in his hands... and i have a suspicion that he could be greater if he let the math go and played 100% by ear... But theres nothing wrong with his results so far ... nothing but its a choice...

  What im saying is hes choosing to play down his raw talent ...  A guy like say Brian Harmon cant do that....Thats my point ..  He has god given tools of the physical variety .. he chooses to give those very little credit , and seems to truly belive his success comes from calculation..  I dont think thats true...  he maybe enhancing what he was born with ..but he isnt winning because he "maths well"... Hes winning because hes a born stud...  Hes maybe the 1st guy in sports i know of who doesnt celebrate that fact

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