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Over/Under on new rules SNAFU's on tour this weekend?


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#1 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 11:29 AM

....and how many fights over the flagstick in/out.

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#2 JackStraw2

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 11:33 AM

Possibly the first time someone hits it in a hazard and does all the new “penalty area” stuff incorrectly.
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#3 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:05 PM

None.  Players already call for an official every time they have to blow their nose, so I can’t imagine anyone will be making many rules decisions without an official walking them through it.
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#4 Obee

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:27 PM

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 31 December 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

None.  Players already call for an official every time they have to blow their nose, so I can’t imagine anyone will be making many rules decisions without an official walking them through it.

LOL

And soooo true.

God I hated to watch players call an official over for a drop and discuss for two minutes. Here's the way it should be for any professional taking a hazard drop the vast majority of the time (yes, there are "special" cases, but they are rare):

PLAYER: <Looks at fellow competitor and his caddie> "Hey guys, where do you think I entered? I'm thinking right about here <points to spot>?"

<Fellow competitor and caddie nod their agreement>

<Player assesses his options. Should he drop within 2 clublengths? Or should he go back on the line from the pin and where the ball entered?>

<Decides that the 2 clublength option is best.>

<Measures his two driver lengths.>

<Official walks over as he's measuring>

OFFICIAL: "Hello Mr. Tour Pro. What do we have going on here? Need any help?"

PLAYER: "Nope. I got it sir. Thanks though."

<Takes drop>

<Mutters to self>

<Shakes head at caddie for handing him the PW instead of the 9-iron on the previous shot that put him in this damn spot in the first place>

<Sticks LW to 4-feet>

<Slams LW in bag as he walks to the green>

<Caddie picks up bag, puts head down and doesn't say a word>
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#5 Hawkeye77

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:31 PM

Will be more accusations inappropriately lodged on the forum in January than there will be actual tournament rules issues.


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#6 Undonersg

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:32 PM

I'll say 2 hours of talking about it on coverage....

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#7 Shilgy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:36 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 31 December 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

Will be more accusations inappropriately lodged on the forum in the last week in January than there will be actual tournament rules issues.
"did you see that drop Tiger took? No F'n way that ball last crossed there he is such a cheater"

PS fixed a small typo you had.  :)
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#8 Hawkeye77

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:58 PM

View PostShilgy, on 31 December 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

View PostHawkeye77, on 31 December 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

Will be more accusations inappropriately lodged on the forum in the last week in January than there will be actual tournament rules issues.
"did you see that drop Tiger took? No F'n way that ball last crossed there he is such a cheater"

PS fixed a small typo you had.  :)

LOL.

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#9 MtlJeff

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:59 PM

Somewhere, Joel Dahmen is putting on his glasses like Horatio Caine while listening to "we won't get fooled again".

It's his time to shine baby.


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#10 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 05:17 PM

Is the flagstick change an optional local rule like the OB change, or is it just in place across the board?

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#11 Santiago Golf

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 06:17 PM

View Postdeadsolid...shank, on 31 December 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

Is the flagstick change an optional local rule like the OB change, or is it just in place across the board?

Its a rules change across the board, not a competition clause like the 2 shot OB rule
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#12 larrybud

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 06:18 PM

View PostObee, on 31 December 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 31 December 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

None.  Players already call for an official every time they have to blow their nose, so I can’t imagine anyone will be making many rules decisions without an official walking them through it.

LOL

And soooo true.

God I hated to watch players call an official over for a drop and discuss for two minutes. Here's the way it should be for any professional taking a hazard drop the vast majority of the time (yes, there are "special" cases, but they are rare):

PLAYER: <Looks at fellow competitor and his caddie> "Hey guys, where do you think I entered? I'm thinking right about here <points to spot>?"

<Fellow competitor and caddie nod their agreement>

<Player assesses his options. Should he drop within 2 clublengths? Or should he go back on the line from the pin and where the ball entered?>

<Decides that the 2 clublength option is best.>

<Measures his two driver lengths.>

<Official walks over as he's measuring>

OFFICIAL: "Hello Mr. Tour Pro. What do we have going on here? Need any help?"

PLAYER: "Nope. I got it sir. Thanks though."

<Takes drop>

<Mutters to self>

<Shakes head at caddie for handing him the PW instead of the 9-iron on the previous shot that put him in this damn spot in the first place>

<Sticks LW to 4-feet>

<Slams LW in bag as he walks to the green>

<Caddie picks up bag, puts head down and doesn't say a word>

Then TV camera from 3 fairways over picks up that he dropped 2.5 clublengths away, and hilarity ensues.

I would call an official even though I'm confident on drop rules.

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#13 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 06:20 PM

View PostSantiago Golf, on 31 December 2018 - 06:17 PM, said:

View Postdeadsolid...shank, on 31 December 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

Is the flagstick change an optional local rule like the OB change, or is it just in place across the board?

Its a rules change across the board, not a competition clause like the 2 shot OB rule

Thank you. Couldn’t remember(that happens a lot lately).
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#14 Obee

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 07:07 PM

View Postlarrybud, on 31 December 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 31 December 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 31 December 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

None.  Players already call for an official every time they have to blow their nose, so I can’t imagine anyone will be making many rules decisions without an official walking them through it.

LOL

And soooo true.

God I hated to watch players call an official over for a drop and discuss for two minutes. Here's the way it should be for any professional taking a hazard drop the vast majority of the time (yes, there are "special" cases, but they are rare):

PLAYER: <Looks at fellow competitor and his caddie> "Hey guys, where do you think I entered? I'm thinking right about here <points to spot>?"

<Fellow competitor and caddie nod their agreement>

<Player assesses his options. Should he drop within 2 clublengths? Or should he go back on the line from the pin and where the ball entered?>

<Decides that the 2 clublength option is best.>

<Measures his two driver lengths.>

<Official walks over as he's measuring>

OFFICIAL: "Hello Mr. Tour Pro. What do we have going on here? Need any help?"

PLAYER: "Nope. I got it sir. Thanks though."

<Takes drop>

<Mutters to self>

<Shakes head at caddie for handing him the PW instead of the 9-iron on the previous shot that put him in this damn spot in the first place>

<Sticks LW to 4-feet>

<Slams LW in bag as he walks to the green>

<Caddie picks up bag, puts head down and doesn't say a word>

Then TV camera from 3 fairways over picks up that he dropped 2.5 clublengths away, and hilarity ensues.

I would call an official even though I'm confident on drop rules.

In reality, I totally get it. :-)
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#15 cardoustie

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 07:40 PM

The boys at Augusta will abhor sticks being left in for slick downhillers

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#16 bladehunter

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 08:07 PM

View Postcardoustie, on 31 December 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

The boys at Augusta will abhor sticks being left in for slick downhillers

Yep. Going to be a real shame to watch some of the banged in putts we will see. People hate “ backstopping “. But this. .... this is okie dokie.
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#17 Hawkeye77

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 08:10 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 31 December 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

View Postcardoustie, on 31 December 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

The boys at Augusta will abhor sticks being left in for slick downhillers

Yep. Going to be a real shame to watch some of the banged in putts we will see. People hate “ backstopping “. But this. .... this is okie dokie.

X100

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#18 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 09:41 PM

I doubt anyone will be banging putts in off the stick at Augusta unless they really want a 10ft comebacker...
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#19 bladehunter

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 08:37 AM

We will see.  Can’t argue with the logic I mentioned though.  People literally were up in arms over backstopping , yet this is met with open arms.  I simply don’t get it. It’s the exact same thing.
And banging is relative term.  I don’t actually literally mean making every putt straight. I just mean they no longer need to die them in the Hole.  Just line it up on whichever edge and hit it flush.  The pin will catch it.

Edited by bladehunter, 01 January 2019 - 08:39 AM.

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#20 Swisstrader98

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:45 AM

And I’m here still scratching my head about why the need to change rule on leaving the flag in...but no divot rule.

Quick question: do USGA rules officials even play the game?


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#21 bladehunter

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:50 AM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 01 January 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

And I’m here still scratching my head about why the need to change rule on leaving the flag in...but no divot rule.

Quick question: do USGA rules officials even play the game?

Yea. Seems like either or to me. As in relief from both having to gauge putts correctly and bad breaks in divots , or play it as you find it and hit putts with correct holing  speed.  

I had a putt Sunday that was a 20 footer uphill that I banged off the back of the cup.  Speed just  right to go 4 ft past.  So a touch hard. It hit the cup and popped out to a ft.   No doubt it drops with pin in.  But to me that feels like cheating.  Cheating the spirit of the game mind you. Not the “ new rules”.  For this I also feel the same about divots. I prefer to play from where I find it.  I detest lift clean and place.  It only helps the weak minded.  Or at least helps them more.  But I do agree with your logic. If you are going to give putts like mine to people.  May as well further kill the spirit and allow relief from divots and trees. Maybe even carry a mat to lay down and hit from sand traps too ?  Lol

Edited by bladehunter, 01 January 2019 - 09:51 AM.

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#22 Shilgy

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:55 AM

Guys, the rule has been changed before with the flagstick and may be changed again. It has been allowed at Augusta before.

The rule against striking the flagstick only allowed it from '56 to '68. Before '56 it was a penalty as well.

Interesting reading here:

https://www.usga.org...to-present.html
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#23 Smpear

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:07 AM

I am wondering about the new drop from knee height rule. I could not find what happens if player forgets and drops from shoulder height. Certainly hope that is not a penalty but then again it violates the rules. Someone is going to forget.

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#24 Swisstrader98

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:30 AM

View PostSmpear, on 01 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

I am wondering about the new drop from knee height rule. I could not find what happens if player forgets and drops from shoulder height. Certainly hope that is not a penalty but then again it violates the rules. Someone is going to forget.

Interesting question. I had just assumed the rules meant “at LEAST knee height”.

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#25 OutBackHack

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:34 AM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 01 January 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

View PostSmpear, on 01 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

I am wondering about the new drop from knee height rule. I could not find what happens if player forgets and drops from shoulder height. Certainly hope that is not a penalty but then again it violates the rules. Someone is going to forget.

Interesting question. I had just assumed the rules meant “at LEAST knee height”.

I don't think there are provisions for "forgetting" to follow the rules.. It would be a penalty I would think.
And it's from knee height, not above or below, knee height if you were standing in a normal position.
You can however stand on your head and drop the ball if you want... as long as it's dropped from what would be your normal knee height.


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#26 Swisstrader98

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:36 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 01 January 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 01 January 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

And I’m here still scratching my head about why the need to change rule on leaving the flag in...but no divot rule.

Quick question: do USGA rules officials even play the game?

Yea. Seems like either or to me. As in relief from both having to gauge putts correctly and bad breaks in divots , or play it as you find it and hit putts with correct holing  speed.  

I had a putt Sunday that was a 20 footer uphill that I banged off the back of the cup.  Speed just  right to go 4 ft past.  So a touch hard. It hit the cup and popped out to a ft.   No doubt it drops with pin in.  But to me that feels like cheating.  Cheating the spirit of the game mind you. Not the “ new rules”.  For this I also feel the same about divots. I prefer to play from where I find it.  I detest lift clean and place.  It only helps the weak minded.  Or at least helps them more.  But I do agree with your logic. If you are going to give putts like mine to people.  May as well further kill the spirit and allow relief from divots and trees. Maybe even carry a mat to lay down and hit from sand traps too ?  Lol

Precisely right.

I can see pin in vs pin out helping more than hurting most golfers. We’ve all had that putt that we hit a bit too hard and even though it’s dead center in the cup, pops out becuz it hits the back of the cup. I guess you could argue that Same shot could hit the flagstick and ricochet off the stick but much more likely that it drops in the hole.

Also gotta love the geniuses at the USGA who thought this would speed play. My buddies and I started to implement the new rules at end of last season and it was a case of Golfer A wants flag out, Golfer B says now put it back in, Golfer C says pull it and on and on with every hole. For me it was about an extra 2 mins or so on each hole so do the math, and actually slowing play quite a bit. Silly rule.

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#27 nichho

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 12:22 PM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 01 January 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

View PostSmpear, on 01 January 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

I am wondering about the new drop from knee height rule. I could not find what happens if player forgets and drops from shoulder height. Certainly hope that is not a penalty but then again it violates the rules. Someone is going to forget.

Interesting question. I had just assumed the rules meant "at LEAST knee height".

No penalty if you re-drop from the correct height.

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#28 halliedog

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 07:07 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 01 January 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

We will see.  Can't argue with the logic I mentioned though.  People literally were up in arms over backstopping , yet this is met with open arms.  I simply don't get it. It's the exact same thing.
And banging is relative term.  I don't actually literally mean making every putt straight. I just mean they no longer need to die them in the Hole.  Just line it up on whichever edge and hit it flush.  The pin will catch it.

Blade, I'm generally in 100% agreement with you, but think you're going off the deep end a little bit with this one.  Backstopping, as I understand it, is/was against the rules, just as was leaving the flagstick in while you are on the green.  Nobody left the flagstick in because it was obvious if you breached that rule, but "backstopping" was always a grey area because it comes down to "intent"?  In this case, the rule around the flagstick is black and white - you couldn't do it after '69, now you can.
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#29 Shilgy

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 07:24 PM

View Posthalliedog, on 01 January 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 01 January 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

We will see.  Can't argue with the logic I mentioned though.  People literally were up in arms over backstopping , yet this is met with open arms.  I simply don't get it. It's the exact same thing.
And banging is relative term.  I don't actually literally mean making every putt straight. I just mean they no longer need to die them in the Hole.  Just line it up on whichever edge and hit it flush.  The pin will catch it.

Blade, I'm generally in 100% agreement with you, but think you're going off the deep end a little bit with this one.  Backstopping, as I understand it, is/was against the rules, just as was leaving the flagstick in while you are on the green.  Nobody left the flagstick in because it was obvious if you breached that rule, but "backstopping" was always a grey area because it comes down to "intent"?  In this case, the rule around the flagstick is black and white - you couldn't do it after '69, now you can.
I would agree with you and add that the backstopping issue smacked of teamwork by the players in an individual game.
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#30 halliedog

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:04 PM

View PostShilgy, on 01 January 2019 - 07:24 PM, said:

View Posthalliedog, on 01 January 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 01 January 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

We will see.  Can't argue with the logic I mentioned though.  People literally were up in arms over backstopping , yet this is met with open arms.  I simply don't get it. It's the exact same thing.
And banging is relative term.  I don't actually literally mean making every putt straight. I just mean they no longer need to die them in the Hole.  Just line it up on whichever edge and hit it flush.  The pin will catch it.

Blade, I'm generally in 100% agreement with you, but think you're going off the deep end a little bit with this one.  Backstopping, as I understand it, is/was against the rules, just as was leaving the flagstick in while you are on the green.  Nobody left the flagstick in because it was obvious if you breached that rule, but "backstopping" was always a grey area because it comes down to "intent"?  In this case, the rule around the flagstick is black and white - you couldn't do it after '69, now you can.
I would agree with you and add that the backstopping issue smacked of teamwork by the players in an individual game.

Perhaps by guys/gals who share the same agent?  Or have the same equipment sponsor paying them big money to represent a brand as being superior?

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