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Shell's Wonderful World of Golf (MERGED)


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#31 Chris122

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 07:50 AM

Not so keen on the later shows,I much prefer the early ones with Hogan,Snead,Nelson,Littler,de Vicenzo,Lima etc.
Production values may not be what we are now accustomed to but it was fairly ground-breaking stuff at the time as explained by Gene Sarazen in his book on SWWOG.
There's a lot of good footage on YouTube,other favourites of mine are Frank Stranahan vs Arnie and some of the skins games with Trevino and Nicklaus,always entertaining.


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#32 Rangeballz

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 08:42 AM

I love SWWOG, Challenge Golf, Big Three Golf, and All Star Golf. TGC used to run Big Three around 6 AM back in it's better years and it was part of my morning ritual. Small headed persimmon woods, balata balls, and tiny forged blades, now that was shotmaking. In those days a 440 yard par four was brutal.
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#33 Jordan Speeth

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 10:25 AM

View PostMountainGoat, on 26 December 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

View PostArtMBgolf, on 26 December 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

I liked the Nelson/Littler match at Pine Valley.  
The greens must have been stimping at about 5-6 and the fairways about 1.

I saw Jack + Arnie the day before on PH #2.

I saw both of those and enjoyed the heck out of them, as well.  Sure was a different game back then.  During the PH2 episode, they showed a quick shot of Kelly Mitchum, who was a hot amateur at the time and is the short game instructor at the resort now.  Pine Valley came across as unplayably tough.

I don't agree that it was quite "unplayable" but both players sure had a few unplayable lies by today's standards.  How about the sandy waste areas riddled with big moon-crater footprints?.  Uh, you don't want to go into any of those.  Depending on the lie, maybe tee it up again?....keeping in mind that a three wood was MUCH harder to hit solidly in those days and wasn't always a great option.  Different time, different game.  +1 on the runout of the greens AND fairways.  Some of the lies dead center in the fairway would be first cut now.  It's no wonder they couldn't stop their approach shots.
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#34 sui generis

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 11:31 AM

It was appalling. I'm aghast at these "legends". Didn't you see that they shook hands at the end of the round without removing their hats!

On a lighter note, putting with the flagstick in didn't cause the sky to fall. And, what about the costumes of the galleries in the older episodes . . . what a hoot. Pine Valley with weeds in the bunkers. Didn't bother the players, Gene Sarazen or anyone. :)
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#35 davep043

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 11:40 AM

View Postsui generis, on 26 December 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

It was appalling. I'm aghast at these "legends". Didn't you see that they shook hands at the end of the round without removing their hats!

On a lighter note, putting with the flagstick in didn't cause the sky to fall. And, what about the costumes of the galleries in the older episodes . . . what a hoot. Pine Valley with weeds in the bunkers. Didn't bother the players, Gene Sarazen or anyone. :)
Some of the Pine Valley waste areas reminded me of Whistling Straits, with random patches of sand and high fescue.  I liked watching Sarazen and Cotton at the Old Course, before that monstrosity of a hotel was built next to 17.


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#36 gvogel

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 01:15 PM

I really enjoyed watching Gene Sarazen play against Henry Cotton at The Old Course in 1962.  Sarazen was born in 1902, so he was 60.  Cotton was 5 years younger.

Playing into the wind, they had trouble hitting the ball 230.  Down wind it was 260.  Most interesting.

It was fun to see the town the way it was in 1962.  I thing there was more heather back then, as well.  I was particularly interested in what the shed looked like off the 17th tee.

The other interesting match was Sam Snead and Roberto DiVencenzo at Congressional.  Snead was putting croquet style, not side saddle, so he hadn't been called out by Bobby Jones at the Masters yet, or at least the USGA hadn't changed the rule.
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#37 davep043

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 01:27 PM

View Postgvogel, on 26 December 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

I really enjoyed watching Gene Sarazen play against Henry Cotton at The Old Course in 1962.  Sarazen was born in 1902, so he was 60.  Cotton was 5 years younger.

Playing into the wind, they had trouble hitting the ball 230.  Down wind it was 260.  Most interesting.

It was fun to see the town the way it was in 1962.  I thing there was more heather back then, as well.  I was particularly interested in what the shed looked like off the 17th tee.

The other interesting match was Sam Snead and Roberto DiVencenzo at Congressional.  Snead was putting croquet style, not side saddle, so he hadn't been called out by Bobby Jones at the Masters yet, or at least the USGA hadn't changed the rule.
I noticed in one of the matches, I think it was Littler/Nelson at Pine Valley, that they could leave the flagstick in on putts.  I think it was Littler that hit the stick, and the commentator said that he was lucky to have the stick stop the ball so close.  Nowadays, people would be saying he was unlucky that the stick kept it out, no matter what speed it was going.

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#38 wjdpar1

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 03:01 PM

I really enjoyed watching Peter Thompson's golf swing.  I thought his tempo was just perfect.

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#39 MountainGoat

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 04:12 PM

View PostJordan Speeth, on 26 December 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

View PostMountainGoat, on 26 December 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

View PostArtMBgolf, on 26 December 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

I liked the Nelson/Littler match at Pine Valley.  
The greens must have been stimping at about 5-6 and the fairways about 1.

I saw Jack + Arnie the day before on PH #2.

I saw both of those and enjoyed the heck out of them, as well.  Sure was a different game back then.  During the PH2 episode, they showed a quick shot of Kelly Mitchum, who was a hot amateur at the time and is the short game instructor at the resort now.  Pine Valley came across as unplayably tough.

I don't agree that it was quite "unplayable" but both players sure had a few unplayable lies by today's standards.  

I meant unplayable by me.

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#40 URStillAway

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 07:30 PM

Love watching Snead’s swing.  But that croquet style putting was painful to watch.   He wasn’t even sinking putts with it.   A shame he lost his putting stroke as he got older but could still hit the ball great with every other club.

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#41 carrera

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 10:32 PM

View Postgvogel, on 26 December 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

I really enjoyed watching Gene Sarazen play against Henry Cotton at The Old Course in 1962.  Sarazen was born in 1902, so he was 60.  Cotton was 5 years younger.

Cotton (a 3-time Open Champion) was 54 during that match, but honestly sometimes he looked 74 the way he swung and carried himself.  Amazing how player fitness has changed over the years.  They said Sarazen was "tired" on the Road Hole....I guess the presumption back then was that a 60 year old was on death's door.

There is no question to me that today's players are better, even equalizing for equipment, given fitness and technique improvement.  

Cool seeing TOC with such open surroundings.

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#42 JShaw

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 09:09 AM

I'd watch more golf channel if they showed more of these Shell's matches.  I don't care for the constant analysis of players and watching the instructional programs have only helped me become more neurotic.

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#43 LeoLeo99

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:05 AM

Despite my wife's protests, we watched a lot of Shell.

I had a lot of the same observations mentioned already.  Flagstick in on longer putts, less formality than today, shocked to see Snead's putting stroke, Thomson's modern looking swing, the much quicker pace of play, the pop strokes on the greens, the ladies in dresses, so many people smoking, the topped shots and misfits, the people my age (55) looking so old. They dressed like old geezers.  The tremendous iron play.

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#44 Ferguson

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:23 AM

Loved all the matches; great one-on-one competition from cool venues.

"Things have changed" - you got that right.



Wouldn't work today – the action and coverage is way too slow for the non-committin', instagramin’, facebookin’, tweetin’, mackensie bag carryin', seamus site postin' can't sit still for a half hourin' people with caffeinated attitudes.

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#45 baloo

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 03:50 PM

Wish they still made these, I've watched a bunch of the matches YouTube.

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#46 MadGolfer76

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 04:14 PM

As stupid as the Phil and Tiger matches are, I think it would almost be credible to roll that into refreshing this series.
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#47 cxx

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 04:24 PM

A friend was in the audience at some of the big 3 golf events at Firestone.  Said it took forever.  They had to re-position the audience and cameras before each shot.  It's not like they had steady-cams back then.  I don't think the modern pros could sit still for that long.

Made a great show.

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#48 Shallowface

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 04:37 PM

View PostJShaw, on 27 December 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

I'd watch more golf channel if they showed more of these Shell's matches.  I don't care for the constant analysis of players and watching the instructional programs have only helped me become more neurotic.

The reason they don't is because they want to squeeze them into one hour and those old shows had something like 52 minutes of content per hour, with 8 minutes of commercials.  Nowadays it's 42 minutes of content per hour, so somehow or another they have to edit out ten minutes.  The handful of Shell's they show over and over again have been through that process.

It's the same reason Golf Channel never runs any of their old instructional content.  While the amount edited wouldn't have to be ten minutes, it's still some number of minutes depending on when it was made.

The alternative is to alter the start/end times of the programming, as they sometimes do on TV Land.  It allows an uneditied episode to be aired in its entirety, but it causes some odd start times such as ten minutes past the top of the hour.  Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but those who run Golf Channel seem to have a problem with that.

Where they don't have a problem with it is they won't edit a few minutes out of a same day tournament replay.  You'd better make sure to set your DVR to run long if you try to record one of those, or you'll miss the end of it every time.  Does anyone really believe one can't easily find ten minutes of uselessness to cut from a golf tournament broadcast replay?

I've always believed that the people running Golf Channel were the laziest in all of television.

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#49 Finbarr Saunders

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 04:49 PM

View PostJordan Speeth, on 25 December 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Watching SWWG on Christmas and enjoying the heck out of it.  I wish they'd play them anytime rather than the terrible golf movie reruns.  It brought up the debate in my mind whether the greats of past generations would dominate today's game the way they did in the forties, fifties, and sixties, which I believe some of them would (in particular, Hogan, Snead, Palmer, and Nicklaus among others).  I particularly enjoyed the Byron Nelson vs. Gene Littler at Pine Valley episode where they had a cumulative score of close to +10.  The course looked amazing, though it still didn't have the kind of teeth it has today.  Both players hit several cold, yank-tops during their round which I've always said was more of a regular occurrence in those days.  I've seen most of the HoFer's from when I was growing up (Palmer, Nicklaus, and Trevino namely) hit random shots like this on more than one occasion, something you'd never see from any professional golfer today, unless it was from an abysmal lie of some sort.  These older episodes really illustrate the evolution of the game in full color.  Man, have things changed....

what are you basing this on

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#50 LeoLeo99

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 06:09 PM

View PostFinbarr Saunders, on 27 December 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

View PostJordan Speeth, on 25 December 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Watching SWWG on Christmas and enjoying the heck out of it.  I wish they'd play them anytime rather than the terrible golf movie reruns.  It brought up the debate in my mind whether the greats of past generations would dominate today's game the way they did in the forties, fifties, and sixties, which I believe some of them would (in particular, Hogan, Snead, Palmer, and Nicklaus among others).  I particularly enjoyed the Byron Nelson vs. Gene Littler at Pine Valley episode where they had a cumulative score of close to +10.  The course looked amazing, though it still didn't have the kind of teeth it has today.  Both players hit several cold, yank-tops during their round which I've always said was more of a regular occurrence in those days.  I've seen most of the HoFer's from when I was growing up (Palmer, Nicklaus, and Trevino namely) hit random shots like this on more than one occasion, something you'd never see from any professional golfer today, unless it was from an abysmal lie of some sort.  These older episodes really illustrate the evolution of the game in full color.  Man, have things changed....

what are you basing this on

I had the same observation as Jordan.  I was surprised to see a few topped or mishit shots and the announcers were not shocked.  Other than the occasional shankaroonie, it's extremely rare to see a modern pro on TV top a ball.


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#51 Finbarr Saunders

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 06:21 PM

View PostLeoLeo99, on 27 December 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

View PostFinbarr Saunders, on 27 December 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

View PostJordan Speeth, on 25 December 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Watching SWWG on Christmas and enjoying the heck out of it.  I wish they'd play them anytime rather than the terrible golf movie reruns.  It brought up the debate in my mind whether the greats of past generations would dominate today's game the way they did in the forties, fifties, and sixties, which I believe some of them would (in particular, Hogan, Snead, Palmer, and Nicklaus among others).  I particularly enjoyed the Byron Nelson vs. Gene Littler at Pine Valley episode where they had a cumulative score of close to +10.  The course looked amazing, though it still didn't have the kind of teeth it has today.  Both players hit several cold, yank-tops during their round which I've always said was more of a regular occurrence in those days.  I've seen most of the HoFer's from when I was growing up (Palmer, Nicklaus, and Trevino namely) hit random shots like this on more than one occasion, something you'd never see from any professional golfer today, unless it was from an abysmal lie of some sort.  These older episodes really illustrate the evolution of the game in full color.  Man, have things changed....

what are you basing this on

I had the same observation as Jordan.  I was surprised to see a few topped or mishit shots and the announcers were not shocked.  Other than the occasional shankaroonie, it's extremely rare to see a modern pro on TV top a ball.

If you search YouTube you will see how inaccurate his statement is

21

#52 Rangeballz

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 08:25 AM

View PostShallowface, on 27 December 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

View PostJShaw, on 27 December 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

I'd watch more golf channel if they showed more of these Shell's matches.  I don't care for the constant analysis of players and watching the instructional programs have only helped me become more neurotic.

The reason they don't is because they want to squeeze them into one hour and those old shows had something like 52 minutes of content per hour, with 8 minutes of commercials.  Nowadays it's 42 minutes of content per hour, so somehow or another they have to edit out ten minutes.  The handful of Shell's they show over and over again have been through that process.

It's the same reason Golf Channel never runs any of their old instructional content.  While the amount edited wouldn't have to be ten minutes, it's still some number of minutes depending on when it was made.

The alternative is to alter the start/end times of the programming, as they sometimes do on TV Land.  It allows an uneditied episode to be aired in its entirety, but it causes some odd start times such as ten minutes past the top of the hour.  Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but those who run Golf Channel seem to have a problem with that.

Where they don't have a problem with it is they won't edit a few minutes out of a same day tournament replay.  You'd better make sure to set your DVR to run long if you try to record one of those, or you'll miss the end of it every time.  Does anyone really believe one can't easily find ten minutes of uselessness to cut from a golf tournament broadcast replay?

I've always believed that the people running Golf Channel were the laziest in all of television.

I remember when TBS started all their shows at 5 minutes after the hour or half hour. It was a real maverick move. I think they dumped this when they got bought out.

I see no problem with running an uncut episode of SWWOG and include a required amount of commercials. Who cares if it ends at 20 minutes after the hour, especially during the holidays?

22

#53 cxx

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 08:52 AM

View PostRangeballz, on 28 December 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

View PostShallowface, on 27 December 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

View PostJShaw, on 27 December 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

I'd watch more golf channel if they showed more of these Shell's matches.  I don't care for the constant analysis of players and watching the instructional programs have only helped me become more neurotic.

The reason they don't is because they want to squeeze them into one hour and those old shows had something like 52 minutes of content per hour, with 8 minutes of commercials.  Nowadays it's 42 minutes of content per hour, so somehow or another they have to edit out ten minutes.  The handful of Shell's they show over and over again have been through that process.

It's the same reason Golf Channel never runs any of their old instructional content.  While the amount edited wouldn't have to be ten minutes, it's still some number of minutes depending on when it was made.

The alternative is to alter the start/end times of the programming, as they sometimes do on TV Land.  It allows an uneditied episode to be aired in its entirety, but it causes some odd start times such as ten minutes past the top of the hour.  Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but those who run Golf Channel seem to have a problem with that.

Where they don't have a problem with it is they won't edit a few minutes out of a same day tournament replay.  You'd better make sure to set your DVR to run long if you try to record one of those, or you'll miss the end of it every time.  Does anyone really believe one can't easily find ten minutes of uselessness to cut from a golf tournament broadcast replay?

I've always believed that the people running Golf Channel were the laziest in all of television.

I remember when TBS started all their shows at 5 minutes after the hour or half hour. It was a real maverick move. I think they dumped this when they got bought out.

I see no problem with running an uncut episode of SWWOG and include a required amount of commercials. Who cares if it ends at 20 minutes after the hour, especially during the holidays?

TBS's 5 after came about the same time as the remote.  That way you had something to switch to when the commercial came on, TBS.

Can't imagine that shortening these shows is that difficult.  There are a lot of channels running content from the 60's 70's and 80's on very limited budgets.  They seem to manage to fit the on the hour schedule.

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#54 mocokid

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:21 AM

plenty of modern day shanks by pga tour pros, do a search for webb Simpson shank, any others. These days nothing escapes the video replay.

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#55 cxx

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:30 AM

View Postmocokid, on 28 December 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

plenty of modern day shanks by pga tour pros, do a search for webb Simpson shank, any others. These days nothing escapes the video replay.

Yes, on the replay of last year's winners tournament in Hawaii they showed DJ hit a 3 wood worm burner.  Never got above his ankles. Plenty of bad shots.  A lot of those are by players not close to the lead.

You do see more of them in limited field events.

Edited by cxx, 28 December 2018 - 09:31 AM.


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#56 Jordan Speeth

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 11:19 AM

View PostFinbarr Saunders, on 27 December 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

View PostLeoLeo99, on 27 December 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

View PostFinbarr Saunders, on 27 December 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

View PostJordan Speeth, on 25 December 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Watching SWWG on Christmas and enjoying the heck out of it.  I wish they'd play them anytime rather than the terrible golf movie reruns.  It brought up the debate in my mind whether the greats of past generations would dominate today's game the way they did in the forties, fifties, and sixties, which I believe some of them would (in particular, Hogan, Snead, Palmer, and Nicklaus among others).  I particularly enjoyed the Byron Nelson vs. Gene Littler at Pine Valley episode where they had a cumulative score of close to +10.  The course looked amazing, though it still didn't have the kind of teeth it has today.  Both players hit several cold, yank-tops during their round which I've always said was more of a regular occurrence in those days.  I've seen most of the HoFer's from when I was growing up (Palmer, Nicklaus, and Trevino namely) hit random shots like this on more than one occasion, something you'd never see from any professional golfer today, unless it was from an abysmal lie of some sort.  These older episodes really illustrate the evolution of the game in full color.  Man, have things changed....

what are you basing this on

I had the same observation as Jordan.  I was surprised to see a few topped or mishit shots and the announcers were not shocked.  Other than the occasional shankaroonie, it's extremely rare to see a modern pro on TV top a ball.

If you search YouTube you will see how inaccurate his statement is

Sure, there are exceptions, but today, that's what they are...exceptions.  If they weren't, they wouldn't bother to put them on YouTube, because you just don't see it on TV.  Also, if it wasn't a regular occurrence, I'm sure they'd have edited those huge misses out of the program.  Those are compilations of entire seasons, and more.  I was a Tour caddie in the early 70's and I'm here to tell you that it was a regular occurrence in most groups, every day.  I saw it happen quite often, including from the top ten.  Just at random times when I happened to be watching, I've seen one of the greatest ball strikers of all time, Lee Trevino, hit several "worm burners".... and I only worked the California swing.

Edited by Jordan Speeth, 28 December 2018 - 11:21 AM.

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#57 Choclab

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 11:39 AM

View PostJordan Speeth, on 25 December 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

I particularly enjoyed the Byron Nelson vs. Gene Littler at Pine Valley episode where they had a cumulative score of close to +10.  The course looked amazing, though it still didn't have the kind of teeth it has today. .
I watched a bit of that match that day also, and I thought the opposite -- I was surprised at how poor the course condition was.  Now later on it seemed to get better, but early in that match drives would bounce over or almost get stopped by tall tufts of grass in the fairway, and one hole Littler went 10 feet or so over the green and was in a rut that I couldn't believe would exist on a course like that. I was wondering if it was very early in the season there...

Also, I agree with some of the others that even the pros today hit some terrible shots, but they just aren't on camera because the guys on camera are the ones on top of their games that week.  I still remember the first pro tournament I went to, seeing Corey Pavin shank/toe/something a fairway wood sideways into a lake from a good lie in the fairway.  And that was only a few years from his US Open win.
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#58 cxx

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 01:32 PM

I don't think the venues that are on SWWOG were in tournament form.  You do see most everything they do when there are only a couple of golfers playing.  I wouldn't expect the course to shave to within an inch of its life for a couple guys playing an exhibition.

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#59 Body_Visions

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 03:20 PM

Why are we now watching replays of tournaments from this season??  Why not show, say the 1985 Bay Hill instead of last years?  Certainly that would garner some interest.

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#60 Shallowface

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 05:01 PM

View Postcxx, on 28 December 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View PostRangeballz, on 28 December 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

View PostShallowface, on 27 December 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

View PostJShaw, on 27 December 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

I'd watch more golf channel if they showed more of these Shell's matches.  I don't care for the constant analysis of players and watching the instructional programs have only helped me become more neurotic.

The reason they don't is because they want to squeeze them into one hour and those old shows had something like 52 minutes of content per hour, with 8 minutes of commercials.  Nowadays it's 42 minutes of content per hour, so somehow or another they have to edit out ten minutes.  The handful of Shell's they show over and over again have been through that process.

It's the same reason Golf Channel never runs any of their old instructional content.  While the amount edited wouldn't have to be ten minutes, it's still some number of minutes depending on when it was made.

The alternative is to alter the start/end times of the programming, as they sometimes do on TV Land.  It allows an uneditied episode to be aired in its entirety, but it causes some odd start times such as ten minutes past the top of the hour.  Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but those who run Golf Channel seem to have a problem with that.

Where they don't have a problem with it is they won't edit a few minutes out of a same day tournament replay.  You'd better make sure to set your DVR to run long if you try to record one of those, or you'll miss the end of it every time.  Does anyone really believe one can't easily find ten minutes of uselessness to cut from a golf tournament broadcast replay?

I've always believed that the people running Golf Channel were the laziest in all of television.

I remember when TBS started all their shows at 5 minutes after the hour or half hour. It was a real maverick move. I think they dumped this when they got bought out.

I see no problem with running an uncut episode of SWWOG and include a required amount of commercials. Who cares if it ends at 20 minutes after the hour, especially during the holidays?

TBS's 5 after came about the same time as the remote.  That way you had something to switch to when the commercial came on, TBS.

Can't imagine that shortening these shows is that difficult.  There are a lot of channels running content from the 60's 70's and 80's on very limited budgets.  They seem to manage to fit the on the hour schedule.

Record some of that old programming and compare it to the DVD release and you'll see what I mean.  Content has been removed in order to squeeze in more commercials.  Whether or not that content is relevant to the story is entirely in the hands of the editor, who probably considers most if not all of it irrelevant, particularly if it was made before he/she was born.

It may or may not be "that difficult," but Golf Channel (at least those currently in charge) doesn't want to make the effort.

Another trick they use is to slightly speed up some (not the entire show) of the content instead of removing it entirely.  I've recently been enjoying reruns of the 70s detective series "Cannon" which is running overnight on METV.  William Conrad always had the great pipes, but it is amazing how fast he can speak today compared to when those shows first aired.

Edited by Shallowface, 28 December 2018 - 05:02 PM.


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