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what is the worst thing a coach has told a kid or taught in a class


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#1 tiger1873

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 01:48 PM

I am wondering what is the worst thing you ever saw get taught by a coach or junior clinic. I am not talking about parents.  I have seen some pretty bad stuff in golf camps and clinics for juniors.

The worst is running an obstacle course  is going to help your golf game.  The other one is making kids do push-ups  if they donít hit a shot  correctly or miss a putt.  Both of these are from the same guy who had lots of wonderful reasons not to go to him.


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#2 mrshinsa

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 02:10 PM

That sounds just like the golf academy my son used to go to.  Are you in Bay Area by chance?

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#3 tiger1873

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 02:13 PM

View Postmrshinsa, on 20 December 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

That sounds just like the golf academy my son used to go to.  Are you in Bay Area by chance?

No that was in Texas.  I am amazed they did the same thing. Was it by any chance a country club that is owned by a large company? Perhaps they do the same thing at all there academyís? I hope not what a disaster.

Edited by tiger1873, 20 December 2018 - 02:16 PM.


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#4 BertGA

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 02:38 PM

Iím actually OK with the obstacle course. Pushups as punishment, not so much.

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#5 leezer99

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 02:53 PM

Y'all are soft... what's wrong with a few pushups for not executing?  In high school if you fumbled during a game you had to carry around a football the entire next day and the rest of the team tried getting it from you throughout the day.  If you didn't personally hand it back to the coach at the start of practice the punishment was far worse than a few pushups.


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#6 mrshinsa

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 02:58 PM

I was told the obstacle course was to train balance.
Yes, pushups were for "penalty/punishments", and even that was ok with me.  My son did TaeKwonDo before golf, so didn't think much of it.  

What I wasn't ok with was how they lined up the kids at the range and one instructor repeatedly yelled out "Ready! (Pause) Swing!", similar to how soldiers with rifles would be doing.   We did that for a year when I finally realized that was not how you practice golf swing.  

It was expensive, but looking back, my son had fun and made lots of friends(which is quite challenging for solo sports like golf).

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#7 tiger1873

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:13 PM

View Postmrshinsa, on 20 December 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

I was told the obstacle course was to train balance.
Yes, pushups were for "penalty/punishments", and even that was ok with me.  My son did TaeKwonDo before golf, so didn't think much of it.  

What I wasn't ok with was how they lined up the kids at the range and one instructor repeatedly yelled out "Ready! (Pause) Swing!", similar to how soldiers with rifles would be doing.   We did that for a year when I finally realized that was not how you practice golf swing.  

It was expensive, but looking back, my son had fun and made lots of friends(which is quite challenging for solo sports like golf).

I had a very similar experience at first I thought this was great but there was no real improvement in the game. I am paying for golf lessons not running obstacles courses. Especially when you pay for a camp that costs quite a bit of money.

The pushups got old fast because they started to run around the range and my daughter and the other girls would come in last because they had to run with the boys and have to pushups as punishment.

Finding this forum was the a big reason I started to see issues with the teaching methods. So much was so wrong for instance they would putt with one shoe off and then still have to place both feet on the ground? Fun game for kids but bad for their putting.

Edited by tiger1873, 20 December 2018 - 03:14 PM.


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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:28 PM

View Postleezer99, on 20 December 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

Y'all are soft... what's wrong with a few pushups for not executing?  In high school if you fumbled during a game you had to carry around a football the entire next day and the rest of the team tried getting it from you throughout the day.  If you didn't personally hand it back to the coach at the start of practice the punishment was far worse than a few pushups.

I agree.  Was thinking that these people are raising some soft a$$ kids in an already soft sport.  I want my sons coaches to be tough on them.  Burpees, push ups, bear craws, mountain climbs, whatever.  Push him and motivate him in any method they see fit.

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#9 darter79

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:42 PM

I make mine do that. I don‚Äôt believe in this snowflake world every one lives in.  You make a mistake at work guess what you could get fired!  The standard is the standard.

Edited by darter79, 20 December 2018 - 03:43 PM.


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#10 BertGA

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:26 PM

I don't believe a missed putt should lead to punishment. If a kid doesn't understand the significance of that little ball not making it in the little hole, then frankly a few pushups isn't going to change anything. Besides, I don't want them associating an exercise, which should be positive, with a negative outcome. They should want to do pushups to gain strength. You make that a punishment, then pushups have a negative association. Not to mention the fact that exhausting the arms, chest and shoulders of a kid is only gonna make it that much harder to sink the next putt. Don't even get me started on how worthless the average pre-teen pushup looks. They have no idea how to perform this exercise.

I'm also not a fan of expecting my children to endure whatever it was that I survived. You want coaches yelling in kids ears with every mistake? Harassing them, calling them names like the good old days? Most of the experts I read agree that young children need positive reinforcement, not negative.

Golf is not a game of perfect. It is a game of managing the misses, making do with the best that you have that day.


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#11 Long Shot

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:52 PM

I coach a High School Team (varsity) and I will check my guys grooves from time to time, and if they are caked up and haven't been cleaned I will have the offender do push-ups (they get one free club but two or more gets push-ups or squat thrusts, their choice, and only 10 for first offense). The kids can call me out on dirty grooves too, and I'll owe push-ups, as well, but they are taught from day one how their equipment works and that dirty grooves and dirty grips cost them strokes in competition. I never punish for poor play, or missing shots.  Golf is tough, tournament golf is tougher.  No need to give them more pressure while over a shot, fear of failure is a performance killer.  Dirty grooves is being lazy and not minding the details. Overall its more fun and gotcha game, not overly serious, but everyone remembers to clean their grooves, including me.

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#12 tiger1873

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 07:54 AM

You can be too tough on kids too.  During the time of the short game I seen a coach and parent yelling at young kid who was around 7 or 8. The coach had a few kids do well in US Kids worlds and taught a few kids staring on the short game.

Yelling at what I would call a little kid and belittling them until they cry and break down and yelling at them like a drill seargent may get results but not something I want for my kids.  They will never enjoy golf if you do that.


I was interested in the coach until I seen that. It also turned me off on US Kids Worlds for younger kids.  The kid I seen did well too but like I said I want my kids to like me and need to see a shrink when they are older.

Edited by tiger1873, 21 December 2018 - 08:01 AM.


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#13 dpb5031

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:19 AM

I have no problem with what's been described. Kids tend to have short attention spans and lots of energy. Seems like the activities described would help kids to blow off some steam, have some fun, and get some physical conditioning to boot. Nothing wrong with any of that depending on context.

The thing that irks me is seeing a junior, whom I know is getting expensive instruction, have a horrific grip and set-up. I lose a lot of respect for the instructor when I see that. How the heck is a kid supposed to develop the dynamic parts of the swing if his coach can't even get the static parts right like getting his hands on the club properly? There's a lot of "cause & effect" with the golf swing, and it all begins with grip and set-up.
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#14 Baitkiller

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:21 AM

The worst thing i hear from the (all) school coaches is "take your time".
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#15 leezer99

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:41 AM

View PostBaitkiller, on 21 December 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

The worst thing i hear from the (all) school coaches is "take your time".

Here's how I see 'Take Your Time' comments usually play out:

Kid has a 4 foot downhill putt for par.  Dad says to kid, 'Take your time' as the kid sets up to the ball.  Kid proceeds to take one look, bang the putt and barely miss the hole.  Dad says something along the lines of, 'You rushed yourself!' as the kid sulks away.

Well dad, when you say 'take your time' that really doesn't mean anything to a kid.  If you want them to slow down or to proceed carefully then tell them that.  Better than both of those is to reassure them and let them do what they do.


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#16 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM

View PostBertGA, on 20 December 2018 - 09:26 PM, said:

I don't believe a missed putt should lead to punishment. If a kid doesn't understand the significance of that little ball not making it in the little hole, then frankly a few pushups isn't going to change anything. Besides, I don't want them associating an exercise, which should be positive, with a negative outcome. They should want to do pushups to gain strength. You make that a punishment, then pushups have a negative association. Not to mention the fact that exhausting the arms, chest and shoulders of a kid is only gonna make it that much harder to sink the next putt. Don't even get me started on how worthless the average pre-teen pushup looks. They have no idea how to perform this exercise.

I'm also not a fan of expecting my children to endure whatever it was that I survived. You want coaches yelling in kids ears with every mistake? Harassing them, calling them names like the good old days? Most of the experts I read agree that young children need positive reinforcement, not negative.

Golf is not a game of perfect. It is a game of managing the misses, making do with the best that you have that day.

View PostBertGA, on 20 December 2018 - 09:26 PM, said:

I don't believe a missed putt should lead to punishment. If a kid doesn't understand the significance of that little ball not making it in the little hole, then frankly a few pushups isn't going to change anything. Besides, I don't want them associating an exercise, which should be positive, with a negative outcome. They should want to do pushups to gain strength. You make that a punishment, then pushups have a negative association. Not to mention the fact that exhausting the arms, chest and shoulders of a kid is only gonna make it that much harder to sink the next putt. Don't even get me started on how worthless the average pre-teen pushup looks. They have no idea how to perform this exercise.

I'm also not a fan of expecting my children to endure whatever it was that I survived. You want coaches yelling in kids ears with every mistake? Harassing them, calling them names like the good old days? Most of the experts I read agree that young children need positive reinforcement, not negative.

Golf is not a game of perfect. It is a game of managing the misses, making do with the best that you have that day.

Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

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#17 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:43 AM

Keep Your Head Down.  I know when someone says this they have no idea what they are doing.

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#18 BertGA

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:23 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:


Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

Being hard on kids doesn’t always work out, either.

https://www.freep.co...dme/2308094002/

This young man committed suicide earlier this year. Despite being asked not to attend, his high school football coach, who bullied the young man and several team members, attended the funeral service. He was asked to leave, and followed it up with this very unsympathetic post on Facebook...

It’s a complex issue, and I think being tough on kids has its place. But it also leads to something pretty dark stuff in the wrong hands. Bullying, etc. I think it is just as likely to demotivate children instead of bringing out their best.

Bottom line for me, it works in some instances for some kids. It’s hard for me to say from tiger’s post where this instance falls in the spectrum, but if I observed routine punishment in this form I’d be very suspicious of the coach. Same way I would be very suspicious of frankly any behavior I observed that seemed to be an anomaly. As far as I can tell, demanding pushups for missed shots is an anomaly in the realm of golf coaching.

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#19 Baitkiller

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:28 AM

I see "take your time" lead to 9 practice swings on every single swing and put.
The only advise I ever offer the kiddos is Harvys little ditty:  "Take Dead Aim". That is the only swing thought I want them to have.
Turn over damnit!
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#20 Long Shot

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:40 AM

View Postdpb5031, on 21 December 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

I have no problem with what's been described. Kids tend to have short attention spans and lots of energy. Seems like the activities described would help kids to blow off some steam, have some fun, and get some physical conditioning to boot. Nothing wrong with any of that depending on context.

The thing that irks me is seeing a junior, whom I know is getting expensive instruction, have a horrific grip and set-up. I lose a lot of respect for the instructor when I see that. How the heck is a kid supposed to develop the dynamic parts of the swing if his coach can't even get the static parts right like getting his hands on the club properly? There's a lot of "cause & effect" with the golf swing, and it all begins with grip and set-up.
I agree with your post, but from running youth clinics (besides golf I am also the HS Wrestling Coach), there are so many ways you could blow off steam and plan for those short attention spans using sport skill-specific activities.  With younger kids 6-12 (sometimes older), I do a lot with Hula hoops, have kids hit through them (I have a thing that makes them stand up), swing staying inside them (to quite the feet), hit to them (all kinds of mini competitive games hitting to Hula hoops), and then have hula hoop contests (actual hula hoopping) when the attention starts fading before getting into the next activity.  You just have to know your audience and have a plan that spans the time you have as a framework and schedule time slots commiserate with the age of your audience/golfers.  Demonstrate, instruct/students attempt with individual guidance/corrections, then a game using that skill; is the model that I prefer.

Edited by Long Shot, 21 December 2018 - 10:41 AM.


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#21 tiger1873

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:48 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 20 December 2018 - 09:26 PM, said:

I don't believe a missed putt should lead to punishment. If a kid doesn't understand the significance of that little ball not making it in the little hole, then frankly a few pushups isn't going to change anything. Besides, I don't want them associating an exercise, which should be positive, with a negative outcome. They should want to do pushups to gain strength. You make that a punishment, then pushups have a negative association. Not to mention the fact that exhausting the arms, chest and shoulders of a kid is only gonna make it that much harder to sink the next putt. Don't even get me started on how worthless the average pre-teen pushup looks. They have no idea how to perform this exercise.

I'm also not a fan of expecting my children to endure whatever it was that I survived. You want coaches yelling in kids ears with every mistake? Harassing them, calling them names like the good old days? Most of the experts I read agree that young children need positive reinforcement, not negative.

Golf is not a game of perfect. It is a game of managing the misses, making do with the best that you have that day.

Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

I agree kids needs discipline but the golf academy I am talking about did it because it was more of a baby sitting time not golf time. We are also talking about COED classes with Girls. Having girls compete by running laps against boys 2 or 3 years old is stupid and crazy. I guarantee you the girls would be last every time. Guy didn't care when I complained.  Had two hour lessons and the kids might hit a club for 10 minutes the other times it was fun and games and just plain goofing off. He liked to do extra pushups at the end most times to make it look like he as strict.   I know this because her the end I would watch the whole lesson to see what the heck was going on.


Of course this is the same guy who used birdie balls to teach how to chip. I had no clue what I birdie ball was until I looked it up

https://www.birdieba...ASAAEgLfUvD_BwE

He was a younger guy and started out ok but as he grew the program pretty soon everything was fun and games and quality went way down.  I think they tried to emulate Don Law's golf academy but it got lost in the translation.   I think Don Law runs a decent program and the games are good but the focus there is still golf.

I think the lesson I learned is if there is too many games and just overall silliness run as far as you can from that place. It basicallymenas they are baby sitting and not golf instruction

Edited by tiger1873, 21 December 2018 - 10:53 AM.


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#22 No Catchy Nickname

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:51 AM

While the obstacle course sounds fun, drills related to the task being attempted would be better.
Miss a putt and do 20 press-ups? How's that going to help with putting? Miss a short putt, then have to make 20 on the trot before you can leave the putting green? Well, you've helped with the putting.
One more thing. If you want the children to stay in the game, conditioning them to associate misses and bad shots with a negative experience isn't likely to be the best way to do it.
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#23 BertGA

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:52 AM

The more I think about it, Iím not sure where I stand. If you told me my sons tennis coach had him do push-ups for errors or misbehavior, Iím fine with it. Iím just imagining my own coach asking me to hit a push-up every time I miss a putt. I wouldnít be too happy.

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#24 Long Shot

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:56 AM

View PostBertGA, on 21 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

Being hard on kids doesn’t always work out, either.

https://www.freep.co...dme/2308094002/

This young man committed suicide earlier this year. Despite being asked not to attend, his high school football coach, who bullied the young man and several team members, attended the funeral service. He was asked to leave, and followed it up with this very unsympathetic post on Facebook...

It’s a complex issue, and I think being tough on kids has its place. But it also leads to something pretty dark stuff in the wrong hands. Bullying, etc. I think it is just as likely to demotivate children instead of bringing out their best.

Bottom line for me, it works in some instances for some kids. It’s hard for me to say from tiger’s post where this instance falls in the spectrum, but if I observed routine punishment in this form I’d be very suspicious of the coach. Same way I would be very suspicious of frankly any behavior I observed that seemed to be an anomaly. As far as I can tell, demanding pushups for missed shots is an anomaly in the realm of golf coaching.
Very sad to hear.  Having coached at all levels (college, HS and Middle School) in a variety of sports, I have found that the success formula is very similar regardless of the sport (my most successful teams has had this), just the expectations change.  Create a culture that holds everyone accountable to the common goals, build accountability and reliance among teammates (whether an individual sport like golf/wrestling or team sports), model accountability by dealing with athletes case by case, yet with consistency (toughest thing to do).  A good team culture will allow all members of the team to grow individually while working towards common goals. Players of different skills should have individual goals for themselves that align with their contribution to the effort.  Bad coaches marginalize players that are on the outside (usually less skilled or experienced) in favor of the major contributors.  A good culture will bring everyone in.  I like to work with every athlete on their goal setting and help them figure out the best way to improve and where to contribute. Very satisfying when you get it right (and I am not saying I always do, but those are always my goals coming into pre-season and the season). Like life,  it is about relationships with those around you.

In the past 25 years, society has changed.  Kids are more informed, exposed to more, and experience more emotions at an earlier age.  Parenting styles have changed as well, so the "old school" methods are less effective.  Coaches need to listen more and talk less.  The best coaches in history always did this.

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#25 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:57 AM

View PostBertGA, on 21 December 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

The more I think about it, I'm not sure where I stand. If you told me my sons tennis coach had him do push-ups for errors or misbehavior, I'm fine with it. I'm just imagining my own coach asking me to hit a push-up every time I miss a putt. I wouldn't be too happy.

If there is a purpose for doing it every putt I wouldn't mind it one bit.  I think there is somewhere that you have to draw the line.  I think tough love builds character.

When you break them down you also have to build them up.


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#26 Baitkiller

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 11:33 AM

The local middle school coach hands out 10 push ups for 3 putts. He also uses push ups for wagering between himself and the students. IE: Hell take on three of them on a par 4 and use only one club Tee to hole. The club is of their choice and from one of their bags. Guy is a freak, never seen him lose this bet in 4 years of watching.. LOL.  The kids don,t seem to mind the push ups. Girls nor boys. Odd the only time I saw push-back from it was from a pair of home schooled twin boys the county lets play with the team.
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#27 BertGA

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 05:58 PM

View PostLong Shot, on 21 December 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 21 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

Being hard on kids doesn’t always work out, either.

https://www.freep.co...dme/2308094002/

This young man committed suicide earlier this year. Despite being asked not to attend, his high school football coach, who bullied the young man and several team members, attended the funeral service. He was asked to leave, and followed it up with this very unsympathetic post on Facebook...

It’s a complex issue, and I think being tough on kids has its place. But it also leads to something pretty dark stuff in the wrong hands. Bullying, etc. I think it is just as likely to demotivate children instead of bringing out their best.

Bottom line for me, it works in some instances for some kids. It’s hard for me to say from tiger’s post where this instance falls in the spectrum, but if I observed routine punishment in this form I’d be very suspicious of the coach. Same way I would be very suspicious of frankly any behavior I observed that seemed to be an anomaly. As far as I can tell, demanding pushups for missed shots is an anomaly in the realm of golf coaching.
Very sad to hear.  Having coached at all levels (college, HS and Middle School) in a variety of sports, I have found that the success formula is very similar regardless of the sport (my most successful teams has had this), just the expectations change.  Create a culture that holds everyone accountable to the common goals, build accountability and reliance among teammates (whether an individual sport like golf/wrestling or team sports), model accountability by dealing with athletes case by case, yet with consistency (toughest thing to do).  A good team culture will allow all members of the team to grow individually while working towards common goals. Players of different skills should have individual goals for themselves that align with their contribution to the effort.  Bad coaches marginalize players that are on the outside (usually less skilled or experienced) in favor of the major contributors.  A good culture will bring everyone in.  I like to work with every athlete on their goal setting and help them figure out the best way to improve and where to contribute. Very satisfying when you get it right (and I am not saying I always do, but those are always my goals coming into pre-season and the season). Like life,  it is about relationships with those around you.

In the past 25 years, society has changed.  Kids are more informed, exposed to more, and experience more emotions at an earlier age.  Parenting styles have changed as well, so the "old school" methods are less effective.  Coaches need to listen more and talk less.  The best coaches in history always did this.

That's spot-on.

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#28 wildcatden

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 12:10 AM

"Bend those knees. It's all in the hips. You're doin' great."

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#29 TigerMom

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 07:34 AM

View PostBertGA, on 21 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:


Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

Being hard on kids doesn’t always work out, either.

https://www.freep.co...dme/2308094002/

This young man committed suicide earlier this year. Despite being asked not to attend, his high school football coach, who bullied the young man and several team members, attended the funeral service. He was asked to leave, and followed it up with this very unsympathetic post on Facebook...

It’s a complex issue, and I think being tough on kids has its place. But it also leads to something pretty dark stuff in the wrong hands. Bullying, etc. I think it is just as likely to demotivate children instead of bringing out their best.

Bottom line for me, it works in some instances for some kids. It’s hard for me to say from tiger’s post where this instance falls in the spectrum, but if I observed routine punishment in this form I’d be very suspicious of the coach. Same way I would be very suspicious of frankly any behavior I observed that seemed to be an anomaly. As far as I can tell, demanding pushups for missed shots is an anomaly in the realm of golf coaching.

This is a very sad story

But I am not sure you can link the high school coach’s “old school” style to the boy’s suicide (he was a freshman in college)

Kids (especially young ones) need discipline, combined with love and affirmation

And parents need to train them at an early age to obey their parents and respect authority

Almost 0% of young kids will consistently make the right decision in doing what is best for their long term growth and development as a PERSON, not just as an athlete, if left to themselves

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#30 BertGA

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 01:11 PM

View PostTigerMom, on 22 December 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 21 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 December 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes...  I want all of it.  It toughens a kid up.  If they can endure those things on the practice green, range, or short game area it will make playing the game much easier.  Less stress on the course.  You can give kids exercises and yell at them while still making it a positive experience.

Kid starts whining about not performing a drill, I expect the coach to jump his tail.  I am not talking talking about yelling at a kid for missing a 3 foot putt.  Talking about punishments for behavior associated with poor performance.  There is nothing wrong with it.  

Being soft on kids hasn't worked out in society at all has it?  I look at it as drill sergeant in the military.  They develop MEN by instilling discipline through physical fitness and jumping young adults tails.  I see this as a very positive experience.

Being hard on kids doesn’t always work out, either.

https://www.freep.co...dme/2308094002/

This young man committed suicide earlier this year. Despite being asked not to attend, his high school football coach, who bullied the young man and several team members, attended the funeral service. He was asked to leave, and followed it up with this very unsympathetic post on Facebook...

It’s a complex issue, and I think being tough on kids has its place. But it also leads to something pretty dark stuff in the wrong hands. Bullying, etc. I think it is just as likely to demotivate children instead of bringing out their best.

Bottom line for me, it works in some instances for some kids. It’s hard for me to say from tiger’s post where this instance falls in the spectrum, but if I observed routine punishment in this form I’d be very suspicious of the coach. Same way I would be very suspicious of frankly any behavior I observed that seemed to be an anomaly. As far as I can tell, demanding pushups for missed shots is an anomaly in the realm of golf coaching.

This is a very sad story

But I am not sure you can link the high school coach’s “old school” style to the boy’s suicide (he was a freshman in college)

Kids (especially young ones) need discipline, combined with love and affirmation

And parents need to train them at an early age to obey their parents and respect authority

Almost 0% of young kids will consistently make the right decision in doing what is best for their long term growth and development as a PERSON, not just as an athlete, if left to themselves

I agree the story is a reach, but there is no doubt coaches can cross the line when trying to "motivate" players. And people in positions of authority frequently abuse the power when dealing with athletes. Stories like Penn State and Michigan State are probably the tip of the iceberg.

I'm just trying to point out it is good to have a healthy dose of suspicion when trusting the people in charge of your children. They don't always have the child's best interests in mind.


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