The celebration is why I don't like Tiger. Of all people, act like you've been there before......
That said, his golf skills are simply mind boggling.
Really?
Are you serious?
He just made a 15 footer to tie. What kind of reaction do you expect him to have, just raise one hand and say thanks?
You are entitled to your opinion but really.
Just a question but can you think of any other golfer that would have a reaction like that? I can't. My own mother in law was sitting here watching and said, "wow, that seems a little over the top". I mean, he hasn't won...... yet.
A putt to tie is more important than a putt to win. If he misses, he doesn't have a chance tomorrow. If he was tied going into that putt and missed, at least he has another chance. You don't get another chance when you have a putt to tie.
Is the 18 hole playoff a U.S open thing? I always thought in the playoffs they play whatever predetermined series of holes right after the round was completed? Anyone have more insight on this?
The celebration is why I don't like Tiger. Of all people, act like you've been there before......
That said, his golf skills are simply mind boggling.
Really?
Are you serious?
He just made a 15 footer to tie. What kind of reaction do you expect him to have, just raise one hand and say thanks?
You are entitled to your opinion but really.
Just a question but can you think of any other golfer that would have a reaction like that? I can't. My own mother in law was sitting here watching and said, "wow, that seems a little over the top". I mean, he hasn't won...... yet.
What did you expect him to do?
I guarantee you if Phil would have made a putt to tie, he would have had a similar reaction.
Phil made a putt on the 18th hole to win the Masters (his first major) and he didn't celebrate like that. He "jumped" up in the air and raised his arms but didn't scream at the top of his lungs, pump his fists and yell "F_ck yea"..........
Is the 18 hole playoff a U.S open thing? I always thought in the playoffs they play whatever predetermined series of holes right after the round was completed? Anyone have more insight on this?
The celebration is why I don't like Tiger. Of all people, act like you've been there before......
That said, his golf skills are simply mind boggling.
Really?
Are you serious?
He just made a 15 footer to tie. What kind of reaction do you expect him to have, just raise one hand and say thanks?
You are entitled to your opinion but really.
Just a question but can you think of any other golfer that would have a reaction like that? I can't. My own mother in law was sitting here watching and said, "wow, that seems a little over the top". I mean, he hasn't won...... yet.
What did you expect him to do?
I guarantee you if Phil would have made a putt to tie, he would have had a similar reaction.
Phil made a putt on the 18th hole to win the Masters (his first major) and he didn't celebrate like that. He "jumped" up in the air and raised his arms but didn't scream at the top of his lungs, pump his fists and yell "F_ck yea"..........
Yes, Phil did yell at the top of his lungs. I was there in person 2nd row right behind the green.
he's incredible.
i love rocco too, but i mean c'mon.
magnificent.
up until this week, i was one of those "wait, jack's still the best ever" guys
my mind has been changed
# 2nd place finishes - 19
# Top 3 finishes - 46
# Top 5 finishes - 57
# Top 10 finishes - 73
Once Tiger surpasses those numbers he'll be number 1 in my book.
YES!!!! Finally a Tiger hater surfaces. Where have you been guy? All your little stats show you is that there was absolutely no depth back then. Guess who is in the playoff with Tiger. A guy that wasnt even in the top 100 world ranking wise and had to qualify to play. AKA anyone can win in this day in age. All technology has done is given Rocco the ability to still have a chance.
I don't think even tiger wants to be in your book.
How am I a Tiger Hater, just because I say Jack was and is better than Tiger? You sound like a Tiger lover to me, and are you crazy no depth? LOL I guess Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and countless others are no depth when the closest to Tiger these days in terms of Majors is Phil, Ernie and Vijay.
It's just one of those unwritten rules where you let the other player/caddie look at your bag to see what he hits. The caddies actually used to signal to each other as to what club was hit. They can no longer do that.
That's why Phil is number 2 MILES behind Tiger. He isn't as passionate (for lack of a better word).
Tiger puts EVERYTHING into every shot. Maybe the rest of the golf world should put some emotion into it and they would do half of what Tiger does. Because there isn't anyone currently that is doing half of what he does. DOES ANYONE REMEMBER ANOTHER GREAT PLAYER (JACK) THROWING HIS PUTTER ABOUT 40 FT INTO THE AIR AFTER WINNING THE BRITISH OPEN??? HOW WAS THAT FOR A CELEBRATION???? OVER THE TOP??
BY YOUR STANDARDS HE SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF HIS TITLE AND KICKED OF THE COURSE HA-HA
Essentially they are keeping it the same, but will change a few holes... they said they are keeping the distance similar (7200ish) which will keep Rocco in it....
They said they will move #3 back and a couple of other specific changes I wasn't paying attention to .... didn't have TIVO on or I would have gone back...
The celebration is why I don't like Tiger. Of all people, act like you've been there before......
That said, his golf skills are simply mind boggling.
Really?
Are you serious?
He just made a 15 footer to tie. What kind of reaction do you expect him to have, just raise one hand and say thanks?
You are entitled to your opinion but really.
Just a question but can you think of any other golfer that would have a reaction like that? I can't. My own mother in law was sitting here watching and said, "wow, that seems a little over the top". I mean, he hasn't won...... yet.
What did you expect him to do?
I guarantee you if Phil would have made a putt to tie, he would have had a similar reaction.
Phil made a putt on the 18th hole to win the Masters (his first major) and he didn't celebrate like that. He "jumped" up in the air and raised his arms but didn't scream at the top of his lungs, pump his fists and yell "F_ck yea"..........
Yes, Phil did yell at the top of his lungs. I was there in person 2nd row right behind the green.
Actually, I was there too, I guess I just couldn't hear....
I don't know..... look, I don't want to start a huge debate. I'm not a tiger hater. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and what he has done, I just don't like the way he celebrates, I never have. For some reason it just seems different to me and almost disrespectful to the other players.
Anyway, let's move on to other topics, didn't mean to get everyone all worked up......
...up until this week, i was one of those "wait, jack's still the best ever" guys
my mind has been changed
'Better late than never!'
No disrespect to Jack [esp because IMO he was/is even a better husband and father than a golfer!] but:
Tiger has already re-written golf`s record books [and Jack humbly acknowledges that!] and if his knee heals, then I believe that it`s just a matter of time `till he passes Jack`s 'Majors' victories.
Jack was the best in his era and Tiger is the best in his!
he's incredible.
i love rocco too, but i mean c'mon.
magnificent.
up until this week, i was one of those "wait, jack's still the best ever" guys
my mind has been changed
# 2nd place finishes - 19
# Top 3 finishes - 46
# Top 5 finishes - 57
# Top 10 finishes - 73
Once Tiger surpasses those numbers he'll be number 1 in my book.
YES!!!! Finally a Tiger hater surfaces. Where have you been guy? All your little stats show you is that there was absolutely no depth back then. Guess who is in the playoff with Tiger. A guy that wasnt even in the top 100 world ranking wise and had to qualify to play. AKA anyone can win in this day in age. All technology has done is given Rocco the ability to still have a chance.
I don't think even tiger wants to be in your book.
How am I a Tiger Hater, just because I say Jack was and is better than Tiger? You sound like a Tiger lover to me, and are you crazy no depth? LOL I guess Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and countless others are no depth when the closest to Tiger these days in terms of Majors is Phil, Ernie and Vijay.
If your into golf I really dont know how you cannot be a Tiger lover so I guess I am. I would say your a hater because you come on a golf forum the second after he does something amazing a make a comment like you made. Do you know what depth is? Let me explain it to you.
Depth is when there are over a 100 people on the nationwide tour that could have won on the PGA tour no problem in the 60s and 70s
Depth is when an amateur (Rickie Fowler) at 19 years old is under par at a major championship after the first day
Depth is when a golfer outside of the top 100 makes a playoff with the number 1 player in the world
Depth is when technology allows a 45 year old man to stay afloat amongst players that out drive him by 30 yards
Depth is when anyone (and Rocco definetely solidifies this) can win when they step onto the first tee
Great, you namned some of golfs best. However outside of that group there were very few that could win at a major tournament. Here is a line out of your boy Jack's own mouth "Tiger woods has more competition than I ever had, the fields are deeper." Get it, depth? Deep...aka more. He also said something very interesting that the only thing he had on Tiger was driving accuracy. Everything else was about equal except Tiger has a better short game. Do you not think that someone would take Tigers short game every single freaking time over a more accurate driving game? Hell yes they would. Give it time he will have more majors and when he does we will finally not have to listen to all this BS.
That's why Phil is number 2 MILES behind Tiger. He isn't as passionate (for lack of a better word).
Tiger puts EVERYTHING into every shot. Maybe the rest of the golf world should put some emotion into it and they would do half of what Tiger does. Because there isn't anyone currently that is doing half of what he does. DOES ANYONE REMEMBER ANOTHER GREAT PLAYER (JACK) THROWING HIS PUTTER ABOUT 40 FT INTO THE AIR AFTER WINNING THE BRITISH OPEN??? HOW WAS THAT FOR A CELEBRATION???? OVER THE TOP??
BY YOUR STANDARDS HE SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF HIS TITLE AND KICKED OF THE COURSE HA-HA
stop hating!
Did Jack ever throw his iron after he hit a bad shot like you know who did today? I did not see Rocco throwing any clubs after hitting a bad shot.
I like Tiger but some of his fans are Yankees/Red Sox Nation/Patriots fans.
Franc.........I'll repeat myself because it's the same to answer your comment. That is what makes him the best. He is overflowing with emotion at all times and putting everything into the golf game.
Do you see the "other guys" winning over 50% of the time. Maybe they should throw a club every now and again.
And I'm sure Jack threw a club at some point in his career. And none of us can show proof so who knows with that one, but again we were talking about CELEBRATION not anger.
Completely different thing Franc!
Ya know what all you people that are whining about Tiger Celebrating and what not. Just turn off your tv the next time he is playing because he is probably going to win and I wouldn't want to put you through the torture of watching him celebrate every time he does something amazing.
That sounds like a solution to something that is bothering you so much. Just don't watch.
he's incredible.
i love rocco too, but i mean c'mon.
magnificent.
up until this week, i was one of those "wait, jack's still the best ever" guys
my mind has been changed
# 2nd place finishes - 19
# Top 3 finishes - 46
# Top 5 finishes - 57
# Top 10 finishes - 73
Once Tiger surpasses those numbers he'll be number 1 in my book.
YES!!!! Finally a Tiger hater surfaces. Where have you been guy? All your little stats show you is that there was absolutely no depth back then. Guess who is in the playoff with Tiger. A guy that wasnt even in the top 100 world ranking wise and had to qualify to play. AKA anyone can win in this day in age. All technology has done is given Rocco the ability to still have a chance.
I don't think even tiger wants to be in your book.
How am I a Tiger Hater, just because I say Jack was and is better than Tiger? You sound like a Tiger lover to me, and are you crazy no depth? LOL I guess Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and countless others are no depth when the closest to Tiger these days in terms of Majors is Phil, Ernie and Vijay.
If your into golf I really dont know how you cannot be a Tiger lover so I guess I am. I would say your a hater because you come on a golf forum the second after he does something amazing a make a comment like you made. Do you know what depth is? Let me explain it to you.
Depth is when there are over a 100 people on the nationwide tour that could have won on the PGA tour no problem in the 60s and 70s
Depth is when an amateur (Rickie Fowler) at 19 years old is under par at a major championship after the first day
Depth is when a golfer outside of the top 100 makes a playoff with the number 1 player in the world
Depth is when technology allows a 45 year old man to stay afloat amongst players that out drive him by 30 yards
Depth is when anyone (and Rocco definetely solidifies this) can win when they step onto the first tee
Great, you namned some of golfs best. However outside of that group there were very few that could win at a major tournament. Here is a line out of your boy Jack's own mouth "Tiger woods has more competition than I ever had, the fields are deeper." Get it, depth? Deep...aka more. He also said something very interesting that the only thing he had on Tiger was driving accuracy. Everything else was about equal except Tiger has a better short game. Do you not think that someone would take Tigers short game every single freaking time over a more accurate driving game? Hell yes they would. Give it time he will have more majors and when he does we will finally not have to listen to all this BS.
Jack had to beat all manner of men who were hellbent on winning. Some of them, really, were a little crazy. These golfers won at least two majors in the Nicklaus years: Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Billy Casper, Fuzzy Zoeller, Hubert Green, Raymond Floyd, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, Andy North, Tom Watson, Dave Stockton, Lee Trevino, David Graham, Julius Boros, Seve Ballesteros, Tony Jacklin. As a group, they beat Nicklaus more often than he beat them, and he still got to 18.
Here's the fivesome of golfers who have won multiple majors since Tiger won his first major in April 1997: Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Phil Mickelson, Retief Goosen and Mark O'Meara. (Jose Maria Olazabal, Lee Janzen and Payne Stewart, all multiple major winners, each won one after April 1997.) The Els fivesome would have won in any era, including Jack's, but even combined they don't match Woods.
Nicklaus's wins in majors have the advantage of being much more memorable, and that plays into greatness. Think of Nicklaus going against Palmer, against Trevino, against Watson, against Father Time. What are the equivalents for Tiger? Beating Bob May at a PGA and Chris DiMarco at Augusta?
Jacks Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
Billy Casper 3 51 10
Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
Johnny Miller 2 25 7
Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
Gary Player 9 24 103
Lee Trevino 6 29 11
Tom Watson 8 39 4
Totals 40 252 151
Tigers Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
David Duval 1 13 1
Ernie Els 3 15 41
Jim Furyk 1 12 3
Retief Goosen 2 6 23
Phil Mickelson 3 30 0
Jose Maria Olazabal 2 6 23
Vijay Singh 3 31 21
Totals 15 113 112
he's incredible.
i love rocco too, but i mean c'mon.
magnificent.
up until this week, i was one of those "wait, jack's still the best ever" guys
my mind has been changed
# 2nd place finishes - 19
# Top 3 finishes - 46
# Top 5 finishes - 57
# Top 10 finishes - 73
Once Tiger surpasses those numbers he'll be number 1 in my book.
YES!!!! Finally a Tiger hater surfaces. Where have you been guy? All your little stats show you is that there was absolutely no depth back then. Guess who is in the playoff with Tiger. A guy that wasnt even in the top 100 world ranking wise and had to qualify to play. AKA anyone can win in this day in age. All technology has done is given Rocco the ability to still have a chance.
I don't think even tiger wants to be in your book.
How am I a Tiger Hater, just because I say Jack was and is better than Tiger? You sound like a Tiger lover to me, and are you crazy no depth? LOL I guess Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and countless others are no depth when the closest to Tiger these days in terms of Majors is Phil, Ernie and Vijay.
If your into golf I really dont know how you cannot be a Tiger lover so I guess I am. I would say your a hater because you come on a golf forum the second after he does something amazing a make a comment like you made. Do you know what depth is? Let me explain it to you.
Depth is when there are over a 100 people on the nationwide tour that could have won on the PGA tour no problem in the 60s and 70s
Depth is when an amateur (Rickie Fowler) at 19 years old is under par at a major championship after the first day
Depth is when a golfer outside of the top 100 makes a playoff with the number 1 player in the world
Depth is when technology allows a 45 year old man to stay afloat amongst players that out drive him by 30 yards
Depth is when anyone (and Rocco definetely solidifies this) can win when they step onto the first tee
Great, you namned some of golfs best. However outside of that group there were very few that could win at a major tournament. Here is a line out of your boy Jack's own mouth "Tiger woods has more competition than I ever had, the fields are deeper." Get it, depth? Deep...aka more. He also said something very interesting that the only thing he had on Tiger was driving accuracy. Everything else was about equal except Tiger has a better short game. Do you not think that someone would take Tigers short game every single freaking time over a more accurate driving game? Hell yes they would. Give it time he will have more majors and when he does we will finally not have to listen to all this BS.
Jack had to beat all manner of men who were hellbent on winning. Some of them, really, were a little crazy. These golfers won at least two majors in the Nicklaus years: Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Billy Casper, Fuzzy Zoeller, Hubert Green, Raymond Floyd, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, Andy North, Tom Watson, Dave Stockton, Lee Trevino, David Graham, Julius Boros, Seve Ballesteros, Tony Jacklin. As a group, they beat Nicklaus more often than he beat them, and he still got to 18.
Here's the fivesome of golfers who have won multiple majors since Tiger won his first major in April 1997: Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Phil Mickelson, Retief Goosen and Mark O'Meara. (Jose Maria Olazabal, Lee Janzen and Payne Stewart, all multiple major winners, each won one after April 1997.) The Els fivesome would have won in any era, including Jack's, but even combined they don't match Woods.
Nicklaus's wins in majors have the advantage of being much more memorable, and that plays into greatness. Think of Nicklaus going against Palmer, against Trevino, against Watson, against Father Time. What are the equivalents for Tiger? Beating Bob May at a PGA and Chris DiMarco at Augusta?
Jacks Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
Billy Casper 3 51 10
Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
Johnny Miller 2 25 7
Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
Gary Player 9 24 103
Lee Trevino 6 29 11
Tom Watson 8 39 4
Totals 40 252 151
Tigers Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
David Duval 1 13 1
Ernie Els 3 15 41
Jim Furyk 1 12 3
Retief Goosen 2 6 23
Phil Mickelson 3 30 0
Jose Maria Olazabal 2 6 23
Vijay Singh 3 31 21
Totals 15 113 112
If Jack said Tiger's the greatest he's seen, would people still debate this?
You know I never remember Jack showing much temper on the course , a big for him was oh Jack. But Arnie could get pretty firy and so could a lot of other good players.
It occurs to me you do not have to worship at Tigers feet to respect him, I certainly respect him I do not love him.
We have a lot of people on both sides of that issue on this forum those that love him too passionatly and those that hate him with as much passion.
Tomorrow I will be rooting hard for Rocco Mediate for too many reasons to list , but honestly does he have a chance?
I hope so and I still think if he breaks par he can beat Tiger . The hard part is breaking par. I just hope Rocco ignores Tiger and plays the course like he said fairways and greens.
I just hope Tiger has some more of those mystery pills he took today they seemed to help.
he's incredible.
i love rocco too, but i mean c'mon.
magnificent.
up until this week, i was one of those "wait, jack's still the best ever" guys
my mind has been changed
# 2nd place finishes - 19
# Top 3 finishes - 46
# Top 5 finishes - 57
# Top 10 finishes - 73
Once Tiger surpasses those numbers he'll be number 1 in my book.
YES!!!! Finally a Tiger hater surfaces. Where have you been guy? All your little stats show you is that there was absolutely no depth back then. Guess who is in the playoff with Tiger. A guy that wasnt even in the top 100 world ranking wise and had to qualify to play. AKA anyone can win in this day in age. All technology has done is given Rocco the ability to still have a chance.
I don't think even tiger wants to be in your book.
How am I a Tiger Hater, just because I say Jack was and is better than Tiger? You sound like a Tiger lover to me, and are you crazy no depth? LOL I guess Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and countless others are no depth when the closest to Tiger these days in terms of Majors is Phil, Ernie and Vijay.
If your into golf I really dont know how you cannot be a Tiger lover so I guess I am. I would say your a hater because you come on a golf forum the second after he does something amazing a make a comment like you made. Do you know what depth is? Let me explain it to you.
Depth is when there are over a 100 people on the nationwide tour that could have won on the PGA tour no problem in the 60s and 70s
Depth is when an amateur (Rickie Fowler) at 19 years old is under par at a major championship after the first day
Depth is when a golfer outside of the top 100 makes a playoff with the number 1 player in the world
Depth is when technology allows a 45 year old man to stay afloat amongst players that out drive him by 30 yards
Depth is when anyone (and Rocco definetely solidifies this) can win when they step onto the first tee
Great, you namned some of golfs best. However outside of that group there were very few that could win at a major tournament. Here is a line out of your boy Jack's own mouth "Tiger woods has more competition than I ever had, the fields are deeper." Get it, depth? Deep...aka more. He also said something very interesting that the only thing he had on Tiger was driving accuracy. Everything else was about equal except Tiger has a better short game. Do you not think that someone would take Tigers short game every single freaking time over a more accurate driving game? Hell yes they would. Give it time he will have more majors and when he does we will finally not have to listen to all this BS.
Jack had to beat all manner of men who were hellbent on winning. Some of them, really, were a little crazy. These golfers won at least two majors in the Nicklaus years: Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Billy Casper, Fuzzy Zoeller, Hubert Green, Raymond Floyd, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, Andy North, Tom Watson, Dave Stockton, Lee Trevino, David Graham, Julius Boros, Seve Ballesteros, Tony Jacklin. As a group, they beat Nicklaus more often than he beat them, and he still got to 18.
Here's the fivesome of golfers who have won multiple majors since Tiger won his first major in April 1997: Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Phil Mickelson, Retief Goosen and Mark O'Meara. (Jose Maria Olazabal, Lee Janzen and Payne Stewart, all multiple major winners, each won one after April 1997.) The Els fivesome would have won in any era, including Jack's, but even combined they don't match Woods.
Nicklaus's wins in majors have the advantage of being much more memorable, and that plays into greatness. Think of Nicklaus going against Palmer, against Trevino, against Watson, against Father Time. What are the equivalents for Tiger? Beating Bob May at a PGA and Chris DiMarco at Augusta?
Jacks Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
Billy Casper 3 51 10
Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
Johnny Miller 2 25 7
Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
Gary Player 9 24 103
Lee Trevino 6 29 11
Tom Watson 8 39 4
Totals 40 252 151
Tigers Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
David Duval 1 13 1
Ernie Els 3 15 41
Jim Furyk 1 12 3
Retief Goosen 2 6 23
Phil Mickelson 3 30 0
Jose Maria Olazabal 2 6 23
Vijay Singh 3 31 21
Totals 15 113 112
If Jack said Tiger's the greatest he's seen, would people still debate this?
Unfortuantely. I am not going to go back and forth about this anymore. I think his current body of work stands on its own.
Is the 18 hole playoff a U.S open thing? I always thought in the playoffs they play whatever predetermined series of holes right after the round was completed? Anyone have more insight on this?
Yes sir, it's a USGA thing.
Thanks. I just read the rule book explained it all.
I do not know if anyone else noticed this or not. On 16 before Westwood teed off they flipped to a shot of Tiger and I swear I saw him looking in Westwoods bag. Now what he was looking at I do not know. It looked to me as if he was checking it to see what club was not in his bag. Did anyone else notice or possibly Tivo. If someone did I would like to know hat they see
Funny how a US Open thread becomes a Jack -vs- Tiger thread....
When Tiger passes Jack up (if he does) THEN he will be the greatest ever... until then... it is still Jack. The way Tiger is limping around you never know. Quit arguing about it.
What I found amazing was not only did Jack Nicklaus come in second in majors 19 times, but he also finished in the top 10 an astounding 72 times. Tiger may pass Jack's record for total majors (although it seems not quite the sure thing anymore with the knee problems), but he will never get close to those other numbers. I think he has 5 second place finishes in majors and 28 top tens. They said he would have to finish in the top 10 in every major until 2019 to tie Nicklaus's number. He will be very fortunate to still be playing top tier golf by 2019 unless they figure how to grow cartilige.
Billy Casper 3 51 10
Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
Johnny Miller 2 25 7
Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
Gary Player 9 24 103
Lee Trevino 6 29 11
Tom Watson 8 39 4
Totals 40 252 151
Tigers Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
David Duval 1 13 1
Ernie Els 3 15 41
Jim Furyk 1 12 3
Retief Goosen 2 6 23
Phil Mickelson 3 30 0
Jose Maria Olazabal 2 6 23
Vijay Singh 3 31 21
Totals 15 113 112
You're not comparing like with like though. You should only really be including people's figures at the point when Jack was 32 years old (just after the US Open in 1972 I think). So Trevino has three. Player five. Floyd one. Miller none. Palmer 7, although he only won two after Jack won his first. Watson none. And Casper three, so your total is actually only 19 versus the 15 for Tiger. Not quite sure why you've excluded Stewart, so let's put him back in for Duval and it's 19-17. Pretty close if you ask me. And Tiger's won 13 versus Jack's 11, so given that, I make it a tie. If Tiger wins tomorrow, he'll go ahead.
And that's without considering the depth of the field argument.
What I found amazing was not only did Jack Nicklaus come in second in majors 19 times, but he also finished in the top 10 an astounding 72 times. Tiger may pass Jack's record for total majors (although it seems not quite the sure thing anymore with the knee problems), but he will never get close to those other numbers. I think he has 5 second place finishes in majors and 28 top tens. They said he would have to finish in the top 10 in every major until 2019 to tie Nicklaus's number.
Not to mention the top players of Jacks era won a hell of a lot more majors than the top players of Tigers era they actually had a segment on that on the Golf Channel. It was pretty much agreed that although there are more people capable of winning now Jack had tougher immediate competition. Where were the top five six players in the world in this Open in Jacks era it seemed they were always there pushing him.
Jack Nicklaus even stated if Tiger does not break his record it would be because no one pushed him.
But how is that not cheating? He looked in the bag of his playing partner to see what club he was hitting. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Tiger but that is just like asking him what did you hit there.
Billy Casper 3 51 10
Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
Johnny Miller 2 25 7
Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
Gary Player 9 24 103
Lee Trevino 6 29 11
Tom Watson 8 39 4
Totals 40 252 151
Tigers Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
David Duval 1 13 1
Ernie Els 3 15 41
Jim Furyk 1 12 3
Retief Goosen 2 6 23
Phil Mickelson 3 30 0
Jose Maria Olazabal 2 6 23
Vijay Singh 3 31 21
Totals 15 113 112
You're not comparing like with like though. You should only really be including people's figures at the point when Jack was 32 years old (just after the US Open in 1972 I think). So Trevino has three. Player five. Floyd one. Miller none. Palmer 7, although he only won two after Jack won his first. Watson none. And Casper three, so your total is actually only 19 versus the 15 for Tiger. Not quite sure why you've excluded Stewart, so let's put him back in for Duval and it's 19-17. Pretty close if you ask me. And Tiger's won 13 versus Jack's 11, so given that, I make it a tie. If Tiger wins tomorrow, he'll go ahead.
And that's without considering the depth of the field argument.
You may want to check the years of Ernies and Jose wins. I don't think Tiger was playing then. 94 for one of Ernie's opens. 94 for one of Jose's Masters. The old statement continues to ring true "figures lie and liars figure"... Never truer than in this discussion.
What I found amazing was not only did Jack Nicklaus come in second in majors 19 times, but he also finished in the top 10 an astounding 72 times. Tiger may pass Jack's record for total majors (although it seems not quite the sure thing anymore with the knee problems), but he will never get close to those other numbers. I think he has 5 second place finishes in majors and 28 top tens. They said he would have to finish in the top 10 in every major until 2019 to tie Nicklaus's number.
Not to mention the top players of Jacks era won a hell of a lot more majors than the top players of Tigers era they actually had a segment on that on the Golf Channel. It was pretty much agreed that although there are more people capable of winning now Jack had tougher immediate competition. Where were the top five six players in the world in this Open in Jacks era it seemed they were always there pushing him.
Jack Nicklaus even stated if Tiger does not break his record it would be because no one pushed him.
Nice post Sandy
I love the bizzaro world figuring on how to compare competition. Take one from column A and add two to Column B. Easy to do when you already know the answer and don't want to be swayed by facts. I sure hope he isn't a CPA....
Billy Casper 3 51 10
Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
Johnny Miller 2 25 7
Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
Gary Player 9 24 103
Lee Trevino 6 29 11
Tom Watson 8 39 4
Totals 40 252 151
Tigers Competition
Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l win
David Duval 1 13 1
Ernie Els 3 15 41
Jim Furyk 1 12 3
Retief Goosen 2 6 23
Phil Mickelson 3 30 0
Jose Maria Olazabal 2 6 23
Vijay Singh 3 31 21
Totals 15 113 112
You're not comparing like with like though. You should only really be including people's figures at the point when Jack was 32 years old (just after the US Open in 1972 I think). So Trevino has three. Player five. Floyd one. Miller none. Palmer 7, although he only won two after Jack won his first. Watson none. And Casper three, so your total is actually only 19 versus the 15 for Tiger. Not quite sure why you've excluded Stewart, so let's put him back in for Duval and it's 19-17. Pretty close if you ask me. And Tiger's won 13 versus Jack's 11, so given that, I make it a tie. If Tiger wins tomorrow, he'll go ahead.
And that's without considering the depth of the field argument.
You may want to check the years of Ernies and Jose wins. I don't think Tiger was playing then. 94 and 97 for Ernies opens. 94 for one of Jose's Masters. The old statement continues to ring true "figures lie and liars figure"... Never truer than in this discussion.
Yeah, I know, but I'm giving Arnie 7 and Casper 3. I'd gladly knock down Jose by 1 and Ernie by 1 (his 97 US Open came after Tiger's 97 Masters) if we're gonna also knock down Casper by 2 and Arnie by 5. Or not. Whatever. There's no way to answer this. Either more people can win and there are more guys who do win or there's a shorter list of people who win and they win more. There's only four of these things a year and there's no way to determine which way of counting is more realistic. Personally, I choose to remember that when Faldo was winning his six majors, people talked about that as being a spectacular career because the game had changed and it just wasn't possible to win so many majors because the fields were so much deeper. Then Tiger came along and those voices changed from "Jack's total will never be beaten because the fields are too deep and too many people can win" to "there's no competition these days, no wonder Tiger wins so many".
Jack was great Tiger is great. Is one better than the other? It can't really be quantified, so who cares? Does it really matter? Why waste time arguing about it??? Just appreaciate the golf you see.
For what it is worth, I am not a big fan of tiger because of the excessive fanaticism that revolves around him.
Come on guys!! His intensity is awesome. I know everyone doesn't like it, but the majority certainly does and it gives golf the intensity and emotion it has always needed like other sports. Could he have held off with the f..k yeah comment? Certainly, that was overdoing it too I think. But if I were pulling off stuff like that all the time I would be going nuts too!!
Tiger's celebrations are the best part of watching him in majors. The guy has a billion dollars and is one of the most famous people in the world. He could disappear from the public eye tomorrow and become a thing of legend. He has all that and he still gets amped up like you saw after making that putt. Nobody wants it more than him. The day he stops celebrating like that will be the sign he will retire.
Oh gawd ... I'm not a mod, but do we really need to get nasty here?
This was a beautiful tournament. Wicked exciting. Coming down to the last putt (for two golfers) on the last hole. This is as exciting as it gets. It is fantastic for the game of golf. Spectacular for fans.
Tiger and Rocco (and a half dozen others) battled to the end, on a course so tough the even with the best in the world, the two players i the playoff wound up being the only ones that finished under par. This is as good as it gets (and I've been watching golf for four decades).
The GolfWRX community should (IMHO) be celebrating this ... not engaged in pissing matches.
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dachtor, on Jun 15 2008, 10:04 PM, said:
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