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Greg Norman talks about One Length Irons, Bryson on to something


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#31 Dave D

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 09:42 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 10 December 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

So much hate for Norman :lol:

People must be Chris Evert fans.

I read his book a while back and did find it funny how all his collapses were someone else's fault and never his own.

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#32 QuigleyDU

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:26 AM

i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.
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#33 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:36 AM

View PostQuigleyDU, on 10 December 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

Forged OL's? What, they demo's or are the shafts senior flex? At 50% it's  a great buy.. Send info

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#34 GSDriver

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:41 AM

The few I know who tried SL, traded them in shortly thereafter.  I'm thinking would need to devote some serious range time to get adapted to.
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#35 Darth Putter

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:43 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 10 December 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

So much hate for Norman :lol:

People must be Chris Evert fans.

guilty as charged :D

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just say NO.... to practice swings

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#36 GoGoErky

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 12:18 PM

View PostQuigleyDU, on 10 December 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

The one set my fitter sold last year was at a similar discount and was the omg customer that asked about SL since release

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#37 cardoustie

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 12:36 PM

Well I am not a SL length guy but close I guess.

As a "taller" guy I have my short irons longer and 1/4" apart starting at 9i... and 6-8 are only 3/8" apart.  Thanks to Tom Wishon !!!!!!!!!!!
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#38 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:11 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 09 December 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

View PostHonman, on 09 December 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

View PostMan_O_War, on 09 December 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 09 December 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Norman won 86 times internationally, including 20 Tour events, along with the 1986 British Open

The 1993 win never counted?

so really he has 20 wins..just like Tiger only has 80 wins...only PGA tour wins count

So what about those pesky Europeans winning the Ryder Cup so many times over the years?

This is such a short sighted comment. Is the PGA Tour the best, yes it is, but the standard of golf in Europe and around the world is much higher than people give it credit for.


Winning the RC ? Means what exactly?

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#39 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:14 PM

View PostBMC, on 09 December 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

A better Cobra player....

Should of had a closeup of the uni-brow chic too though.

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#40 QuigleyDU

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:43 PM

View PostMr. Grumpy, on 10 December 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

View PostQuigleyDU, on 10 December 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

Forged OL's? What, they demo's or are the shafts senior flex? At 50% it's  a great buy.. Send info

s flex, full set of shelf demos, most the heads still have the plastic.

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#41 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 03:08 PM

View PostGSDriver, on 10 December 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

The few I know who tried SL, traded them in shortly thereafter.  I'm thinking would need to devote some serious range time to get adapted to.

They do take time and just as much dedication as any new set, I mean you gotta put the work in with VL or SL. For me it was a double whammy, SL and 15 gram or so lighter shafts. After a year my scores have dropped a little, but 4 through wedges are much more consistent and I feel more confident.... Many of my average killing rounds are due to being out of position via hybrid through Driver, I am struggling in this area..

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#42 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 03:11 PM

View PostQuigleyDU, on 10 December 2018 - 02:43 PM, said:

View PostMr. Grumpy, on 10 December 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

View PostQuigleyDU, on 10 December 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

Forged OL's? What, they demo's or are the shafts senior flex? At 50% it's  a great buy.. Send info

s flex, full set of shelf demos, most the heads still have the plastic.

Wow,, surprised they won't sell,, but I know we SL converts are few. I'd pick them up but I plan to sell,, er. trade in my F7's for the new F9's

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#43 SirFuego

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 09:43 AM

Let's face it.  If Tiger Woods announced tomorrow that he was going to start playing SL irons, retailers probably couldn't keep SL irons in stock.  If Titleist, TM, or Callaway started making them, they would probably gain in popularity as well.  Although I don't see any of those three companies building SL irons unless they sign a PGA Tour pro that insists on playing them.

Regardless of what you think of him, Bryson (as of today at least) does not have the personality to sway the egos of the typical amateur golfer to try something "different" that might actually help their game.  There are a ton of golfers out there that readily accept that they aren't good enough to play the same irons as the pros, so they rely on technology (SGI or GI) irons to improve their game.  Yet those same golfers cannot wrap their head around the fact that technology can enable a 7I length 4I to go just as far as a regular length 4I and a 7I length PW can have similar flight to a regular length PW -- likely because "none of the pros" play single length irons (or at least their favorite pros don't).  The logic against SL just doesn't make sense.

Now SL irons aren't for everyone, if you tried them, and found "traditional" irons to work better, then go for it.  But the fact that people immediately dismiss them, despite wanting to get the "best irons for them", is truly baffling.

Edited by SirFuego, 11 December 2018 - 09:49 AM.


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#44 gvogel

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 12:24 PM

View PostBrianMcG, on 09 December 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

View Postronbo, on 09 December 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

It was not common with hickory.  Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey.  His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased.  And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club.  Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's.  And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club.  Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.
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#45 Santiago Golf

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 11:16 AM

View Postgvogel, on 12 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 09 December 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

View Postronbo, on 09 December 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

It was not common with hickory.  Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey.  His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased.  And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club.  Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's.  And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club.  Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

Jones set was this.

2,3 same
4,5 same
6,7 same
8,9 same
Pw,sw same

Though they 1/4 increments. So they nearly all the same length. Roughly 1 inch in difference in length between longest and shortest iron. Versus the normal 4.5 inches

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#46 Golfjack

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:40 PM

It just seems to be that they are making things harder by making the short irons longer.  Short irons are great, easier to hit due to their shorter length.  People should have the length of their clubs limited to the longest clubs they can hit comfortably.  Progression up to say a 7 iron and then everything above (6-3 iron) is 7 iron length.
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#47 Holy Moses

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 09:35 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 09 December 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

They just replayed it a few minutes ago.

When asked about how he felt about one length irons he giggled and said ďwell, I developed themĒ.  Then he mentioned seeing Bobby Jones irons at Augusta and noticing they were all similar length and he intimated that seeing them gave him the inspiration to ďdevelopď one length irons.  Barf...

He undeniably  is a ďtrailblazerĒ of sorts for actually being the first to use them successfully on tour. Heís certainly earning his Cobra money.

If I was still teaching professionally I would not be dissuading brand new golfers from trying them. Itís a nice idea for those with no preconceived ideas about clubs who havenít  already gotten used to traditional irons.  I do think itís extremely ackward for long time golfers to try and change to them.  

They canít work for me. Iíve tried them.  I will always try to overswing a super ďshortĒ 4 iron and I will always find a super long gap wedge bizarre because Iíve hit millions of golf balls with traditional irons for 35 years.

The one MASSIVE problem with getting new golfers started on single length irons is that if they donít become more popular and other companies donít start making them, a consumer will never have any CHOICE in irons except to buy new Cobras every few years.....and thatís Only if Cobra continues making them for many years.  What if they stop in 4 or 5 years?  Then what?  All OL golfers need to convert if they want to buy new clubs?  Yikes.

I actually hope they become popular enough that more choices emerge, but only time will tell.

Cobra has sold 40,000 sets worldwide. More than I thought. https://www.golf.com...ron-revolution/
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#48 bobcat

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 10:10 AM

People seem to forget that Bryson's Metal Woods DO vary in length, and yet he somehow manages to hit those clubs OK, despite their different lengths.

Frankly, I think Bryson 'COULD' play just about as well with a conventional set of clubs if his 'obsession with physics' didn't get in the way of doing that.  He has 'the talent', but he also has 'that obsession'.

If you 'believe in something strongly enough', you'll find a way to make it work for you, and that's the case with Bryson!  He believes in limiting the number of 'swing planes' by using a single-length iron set, but I think many of his fellow Pros think he is 'overstating the difficulty of varying swing planes'.

There are so many excellent ball strikers on the PGA Tour and I seriously doubt very many of them even bother to give 'multiple swing planes' a second thought... :aikido:

AND BY THE WAY, ISN'T GREG NORMAN STILL A SPOKESMAN FOR COBRA GOLF, THE LARGEST PRODUCER OF SINGLE LENGTH IRONS?... :swoon:


:golfer:

Edited by bobcat, 15 December 2018 - 10:25 AM.

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#49 norge5

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:02 PM

Never gave it much thought until I read this thread but it does kind of make sense.  In Jack Nicklaus' book, he advocates the same swing and ball position with all his clubs with the only thing changing is the width of his stance.  I guess if he had tried the single length clubs, that would fit his philosophy pretty well.

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#50 sthompson42

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:27 PM

Interesting thread. Debate about Norman and SL irons all mixed in.  I have been trying SL irons and seem to like them. They havenít helped my handicap but I feel more confident and consistent. Time will tell.

I wonder if when metal drivers came out if the same debates emerged. Or utility and hybrids? They were seen as a fad that would not take hold and an insult to golf pursuits. GPS and lasers? I have heard complaints they take away from the feel of the game. Carts too.

Now, SL irons might well end up being a very niche market. But Iím always surprised at the hate for them. People seem personally offended.


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#51 Atrayn

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 08:31 AM

I have my short irons longer and 1/4" apart starting at 9i... and 6-8 are only 3/8" apart.  Thanks to Tom Wishon !!!!!!!!!!!

Based on Tom's thread regarding gapping I actually built my latest iron set exactly this way. I also shortened my driver as well as my woods and center contact consistency across the board has improved. I am going to get a Cobra SL set this year and mess around with it. It's definitely my engineering and quality background that convinced me that it makes sense. Especially after I did my research on the history of the graduated set.

I am actually quite surprised that Homer Kelley didn't consider this variable when he wroteThe Golfing Machine...
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#52 CasualLie

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:12 PM

I was under the impression BDC went to SL irons to better match his swing he was trying to achieve.  I get it the closer gapping in irons should result in more consistent center contact, but I'm wondering if you need to approach the swing similar to BDC's move to get full benefit of SL irons.

Obviously it works for him and with his strength he can probably make a more traditional swing work.  Still, I wonder just how much these two concepts go together vs. not.

I've been tempted to try SL irons but Cobra is designing some of the ugliest irons I've ever seen.  The forged blacks look acceptable, but the rest of the F8 series is blechhhh!!!

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#53 Rohlio

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:16 PM

View PostCasualLie, on 28 December 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

I was under the impression BDC went to SL irons to better match his swing he was trying to achieve.  I get it the closer gapping in irons should result in more consistent center contact, but I'm wondering if you need to approach the swing similar to BDC's move to get full benefit of SL irons.

Obviously it works for him and with his strength he can probably make a more traditional swing work.  Still, I wonder just how much these two concepts go together vs. not.

I've been tempted to try SL irons but Cobra is designing some of the ugliest irons I've ever seen.  The forged blacks look acceptable, but the rest of the F8 series is blechhhh!!!

I have improved my iron game significantly by moving to SL irons.... No need to change any swing mechanics... Just swing them all like a 7 iron.

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#54 iBanesto

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:52 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 10 December 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

View PostiBanesto, on 10 December 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

So much hate for Norman :lol:

People must be Chris Evert fans.

guilty as charged :D

How can you not? Pretty and successful. Rare combination.

Posted Image

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#55 Terry Gold

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 01:45 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 28 December 2018 - 09:52 PM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 10 December 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

View PostiBanesto, on 10 December 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

So much hate for Norman :lol:

People must be Chris Evert fans.

guilty as charged :D

How can you not? Pretty and successful. Rare combination.

Posted Image

Just a suggestion...edit out that last sentence.  The one that starts with 'Rare combination'.


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#56 dlygrisse

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:58 AM

View PostSantiago Golf, on 13 December 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

View Postgvogel, on 12 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 09 December 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

View Postronbo, on 09 December 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

It was not common with hickory.  Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey.  His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased.  And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club.  Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's.  And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club.  Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

Jones set was this.

2,3 same
4,5 same
6,7 same
8,9 same
Pw,sw same

Though they 1/4 increments. So they nearly all the same length. Roughly 1 inch in difference in length between longest and shortest iron. Versus the normal 4.5 inches

Of course these were hickories probablyaquired one at a time...but Jones was an engineer.  

There is a thread started by FairwayFred, former owner of Scratch golf, where he discusses how he had Don White custom grind a set for him in this manner.

If you are going to do this you need the headweights right plus the gapping tweaked.

To me it sounds like a much better idea than single length.
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#57 Rohlio

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 10:25 AM

View Postdlygrisse, on 30 December 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

View PostSantiago Golf, on 13 December 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

View Postgvogel, on 12 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 09 December 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

View Postronbo, on 09 December 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

It was not common with hickory.  Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey.  His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased.  And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club.  Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's.  And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club.  Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

Jones set was this.

2,3 same
4,5 same
6,7 same
8,9 same
Pw,sw same

Though they 1/4 increments. So they nearly all the same length. Roughly 1 inch in difference in length between longest and shortest iron. Versus the normal 4.5 inches

Of course these were hickories probablyaquired one at a time...but Jones was an engineer.  

There is a thread started by FairwayFred, former owner of Scratch golf, where he discusses how he had Don White custom grind a set for him in this manner.

If you are going to do this you need the headweights right plus the gapping tweaked.

To me it sounds like a much better idea than single length.

Bobby Jones was a lawyer and a golf course architect later. I never remember hearing he was an engineer. Do you have a reference for that statement?

27

#58 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:10 AM

He graduated from Georgia Tech with a degree in mechanical engineering. Went to law school afterward.

....Wikipedia is your friend.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 30 December 2018 - 11:11 AM.

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#59 Rohlio

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:19 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 30 December 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

He graduated from Georgia Tech with a degree in mechanical engineering. Went to law school afterward.

....Wikipedia is your friend.

Thank you.

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#60 dlygrisse

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:40 PM

View PostRohlio, on 30 December 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 30 December 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

He graduated from Georgia Tech with a degree in mechanical engineering. Went to law school afterward.

....Wikipedia is your friend.

Thank you.

Right. He may never have actually been an engineer but he did have the degree.  Reading one of his books he describes designing a driver while at Harvard, had it made for him, but it didn’t work so well.

After he “retired” he helped Spalding design the first matched set of irons. Which bore his name.

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Ball, KSig or a bunch of ProV's I won in a charity scramble.  
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

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