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Are some irons setups harder to hit than others ? Shaft head combos?


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#1 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:51 PM

I’m talking about some bad head shaft combinations that just don’t sync with your swing .

Like I have some AP3s with regular PX 6.0 shafts and struggling with them , very inconsistent contact. Originally hitting AP2s S300 fine .

I was talking to one of the guys at Roger Dunns and he was saying that was a odd head shaft combo.

Edited by SoCalTitleist, 06 December 2018 - 06:54 PM.


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#2 ChipNRun

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:47 PM

The shaft is half the golf club. Finding the right H+S combo is what fitting is all about.

The PX 6.0 shaft has an Frequency Coefficient Matching rating of 6.5. and weighs 120 grams. // Dynamic Gold (?) S300 has an FCM of 5.8 and weighs about 127 grams. So, PX is slightly lighter but is about 3/4 a flex stiffer than the S300.

PX is a harsher shaft than the S300.

Did you get fitted for the PX + AP3?

Edited by ChipNRun, 06 December 2018 - 10:47 PM.

What's In The Bag *...

Driver:  Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
  or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
Hybrid:  Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 95 gr. (As of 21 Nov 2018)
Wedge:  Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +  
MD.PM 60°/10 / KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |   
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Bag:   Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
Ball:    Calla SuperSoft
   * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
   ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.

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#3 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:15 PM

No not fitted .

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#4 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:15 AM

Anybody else have weird experience with irons like this?

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#5 gdb99

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:41 AM

AP3 and Project X is a great combination, if it fits the golfer.

I’m 56 now, so heavier shafts don’t fit me anymore. I used to play Dynamic Gold S300’s. Now I have a set of Dynamic Gold 105’s coming to try.

I don’t think there are inherent “bad combos”, just bad fits.

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Titleist 917F 16.5, Aldila Rogue Black 70 stiff
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#6 Stuart G.

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:45 AM

  • The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
  • The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
  • Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
  • Or any combination of those three.
But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it.   So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.

Edited by Stuart G., 07 December 2018 - 09:48 AM.


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#7 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:59 AM

going to give it a go a few more times and see if it improves.

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#8 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:01 AM

View PostStuart G., on 07 December 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

  • The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
  • The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
  • Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
  • Or any combination of those three.
But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it.   So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.

My first thought was this, I couldn't load the 6.0 properly.

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#9 HiSpeed48

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:05 AM

Swingweight and total weight are factors to consider as well.
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#10 Stuart G.

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:11 AM

View PostSoCalTitleist, on 07 December 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

My first thought was this, I couldn't load the 6.0 properly.

A lot of times the first instincts are pretty good.   Now there isn't really any 'proper' amount of loading BUT when the actual amount doesn't match with ones expectations of how much there should be, that certainly can cause problems and can be very important during the fitting process.


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#11 bjmdo

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:17 AM

I am well past the days of trying to self fit for this exact reason.  With the technology we have now, it is so important to be fit properly.  Each head launches different, has different spin, etc.  What worked well in one club does not always work in another.  Hope it works out for you.
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#12 RogerinNewZealand

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:04 PM

Over the years i have read about lots of sets of Forged Irons that are loved by many on WRX  Hogan Cobra Mizuno Bridgestone Tm200 2009 X Forged etc
The J33cb  Hogan Apex Plus and MP37 are my clear winners so i note this is a very subjective topic.All of the irons felt better after the standard basic rebuild after purchase...cheers Roger
2018  9th Nov

Ping i15  11 degrees
Ping i 25 5 wood 18 degrees or
Cally X2Hot 4 wood 17 degrees

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#13 evansmar004

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:26 PM

I agree with some that it is just the fit. One of the most important thing is testing shafts and getting fit.

Also, I am a pretty consistent iron player but there are definitely stretches of inconsistency especially in strike. Give it some time before you decide.

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#14 Chuck905

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:49 PM

I agree from experience.

I went thru a complete fitting and its remarkable all the variables such as launch angle, spin, strike , lie, loft, shaft weight, profile, flex, length, swing weight  and feel that can by custom dialed in.

View Postbjmdo, on 07 December 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

I am well past the days of trying to self fit for this exact reason.  With the technology we have now, it is so important to be fit properly.  Each head launches different, has different spin, etc.  What worked well in one club does not always work in another.  Hope it works out for you.

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#15 LaymanM

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:57 PM

View PostStuart G., on 07 December 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

  • The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
  • The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
  • Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
  • Or any combination of those three.
But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it.   So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.

I only disagree that some heads just dont work as good as others with some shafts.  Example I hate PX LZ 6.0 in most clubs.  I loved them in apex mb.  Its about finding head you like looks of and then fitting correct shaft.

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#16 GSDriver

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:07 PM

When I experimented with PX, when they were the new 'hot' shaft, I found them harsh and lacking feel.  I dropped down a flex to 5.5, still didn't get along with them.  Now my KBS Tours and Tour Vs, I like.
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#17 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:14 PM

View PostGSDriver, on 07 December 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

When I experimented with PX, when they were the new 'hot' shaft, I found them harsh and lacking feel.  I dropped down a flex to 5.5, still didn't get along with them.  Now my KBS Tours and Tour Vs, I like.

KBS Tour is a nice shaft.

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#18 Tcann32

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:59 PM

A heavy head + heavy Shaft, or the other way around, or a mix of the two could all contribute to a poor combination in relation to swing weight, as well as static weight.

Weight metrics aside, the shaft being a poor fit would probably be more of a contributing factor than head in this particular scenario if you’re hitting them really poorly. The head itself might not be a perfect fit, but overall it’s an easy head to hit, so I’d look to potential Shaft changes, if you’re confident in the head
What's actually in the bag...
Callaway Epic SZ-9.0-Aldila X-Torsion Green Mamba-70TX
Callaway Epic SZ 15* - PX Handcrafted Yellow 75 6.5
Callaway Apex UT 21* - C- taper S+
Miura LH LTD Black Blades: 3-p w/ DG TI X7's.
Cleveland RTX 3: 50-54 w. C-Taper S+
Scratch 1018: 58 w/ C-Taper S+
Piretti Potenza / Odyssey MX #7

Others gamed on occasion:
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Scratch Golf 51,55,58,59
Wilson Staff Kirk Currie Milled

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#19 Tcann32

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:02 PM

View PostGSDriver, on 07 December 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

When I experimented with PX, when they were the new 'hot' shaft, I found them harsh and lacking feel.  I dropped down a flex to 5.5, still didn't get along with them.  Now my KBS Tours and Tour Vs, I like.

PX are super harsh. I like the results, a lot actually, but even compared to X7’s, the seemingly rare occurrence I hit a shot that warrants a rewarding feel, I didn’t get it from PX’s.
What's actually in the bag...
Callaway Epic SZ-9.0-Aldila X-Torsion Green Mamba-70TX
Callaway Epic SZ 15* - PX Handcrafted Yellow 75 6.5
Callaway Apex UT 21* - C- taper S+
Miura LH LTD Black Blades: 3-p w/ DG TI X7's.
Cleveland RTX 3: 50-54 w. C-Taper S+
Scratch 1018: 58 w/ C-Taper S+
Piretti Potenza / Odyssey MX #7

Others gamed on occasion:
Callaway BBA (2014)
Callaway 13 X Forged w/ AMT X100's (hard stepped once)
Scratch Golf 51,55,58,59
Wilson Staff Kirk Currie Milled

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#20 ThreeBoxers

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:04 PM

This topic is exactly what made me believe in getting fitted.  About a year ago I tested my stock Mizuno MX-23's against other stock offerings seeing if there was a better head/shaft combo out there that I could easily find on ebay.

Apex CF16 with stock XP95 stiff was a dispersion nightmare.  Sprayed balls all over the place with no real distance gain over my irons.

Apex CF16 with Project X LZ 105 6.0 was unreal.  7 iron carried a good 10 yards farther than my stock 7 iron, higher trajectory (good for me), and you could cover my dispersion with a blanket.

Decided right there I should stop surfing eBay until I'm committed to getting fitted.  Some combos jive with your swing, others don't.


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#21 dunn

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:02 PM

Tons of em depending on who's swinging....for someone the one that you "hate" is his dream set so it's all relative

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#22 dunn

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:07 PM

View PostSoCalTitleist, on 07 December 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 07 December 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

  • The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
  • The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
  • Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
  • Or any combination of those three.
But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it.   So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.

My first thought was this, I couldn't load the 6.0 properly.
prolly the case I would guess.....dynamic gold is heavy but not hard to load (only cuz of weight) otherwise it's pretty smooth......PX is a beast.....its almost a full flex stiffer and prolly more robust in every part of profile.....

I have always dropped down in PX and never had issue....they are actually a very good feeling shaft if play right flex....

I am DGS300 player (tho heavy) and I play PX 5.0 with no issues.......and 115g suits me

I play same shafts regardless of head, shaft fits golfers personal taste or feel......YMMV

Edited by dunn, 07 December 2018 - 11:11 PM.


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#23 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:52 AM

Had a range session yesterday. Hit the AP3 much better this time, swing was still crap but that's on me.  I would say the biggest difference is the feel of the two different heads and two different shafst.  AP3s with a cast hollow head and harsh PX shaft I would say is not the greatest combo.

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#24 gdb99

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:29 PM

View PostSoCalTitleist, on 08 December 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

Had a range session yesterday. Hit the AP3 much better this time, swing was still crap but that's on me.  I would say the biggest difference is the feel of the two different heads and two different shafst.  AP3s with a cast hollow head and harsh PX shaft I would say is not the greatest combo.

Again, not the greatest combo, for you.
Project X are a funny shaft, in that they play a lot stiffer than some people want to realize.
5.0 is regular, 5.5 is stiff, 6.0 is x stif, etc.
But you see companies advertise that Project X 6.0 is stiff and 5.5 is regular flex. Not at all!
Cobra King LTD, Mitsubishi Chemical Tensei CK Pro Blue 70 stiff
Titleist 917F 16.5, Aldila Rogue Black 70 stiff
Cleveland DST 3 hybrid, Diamana Redboard regular
Titleist 712 AP1s
Vokey SM7 56M
Vokey SM7 60D
Odyssey #2

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#25 dunn

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:57 PM

And maybe even a hair stiffer than that

I play stiff in most shafts yet a 5.0 is perfect....7 iron is 160-165 for me in normal loft

My PX 5.0 is equal to my modus 120 stiff....

PX is great feeling shaft imo if you play right flex

Edited by dunn, 09 December 2018 - 09:58 PM.


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#26 nsxguy

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:36 PM

View Postgdb99, on 09 December 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

View PostSoCalTitleist, on 08 December 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

Had a range session yesterday. Hit the AP3 much better this time, swing was still crap but that's on me.  I would say the biggest difference is the feel of the two different heads and two different shafst.  AP3s with a cast hollow head and harsh PX shaft I would say is not the greatest combo.

Again, not the greatest combo, for you.
Project X are a funny shaft, in that they play a lot stiffer than some people want to realize.
5.0 is regular, 5.5 is stiff, 6.0 is x stif, etc.
But you see companies advertise that Project X 6.0 is stiff and 5.5 is regular flex. Not at all!

I've seen charts in the past that had PX as about a half a stiffness stiffer than the associated shaft of other companies.

i.e. 5.5 was a half step stiffer than other company's regular. 6.0 half step stiffer than others stiff and 6.5 half step stiffer than others "X".

Having said that I'm in the corner of stiffness not counting for all that much and weight being more important.

Also, think out of the box sometimes. You may be surprised. My puny driver speed is ~93. I hit DGS300 in my irons. Lost about 2 yards in distance per club (from most other lightweight shafts) but dispersion was noticeably better.
Callaway Fusion 9* Project X Handcrafted Hzrdus Black "60" 6.0
Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, 20*, 23*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
Ping G20 5-P, DG S300

Titleist 816 AP-1 5-P+W2, DGS300
TaylorMade Hi-Toe 58* SW & 64* LW

Scotty Select Newport 2 (today)

Titleist AVX

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