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FST Pro 115 v Rifle 4.5


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#1 Thayneil

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 11:28 PM

I can get the FST 115s locally  for $10  a club,is there any advantage to getting the  Rifles from the US?

I work on my own clubs,have done for 30 years


I would like to find out the tipping required to get the flexes matched so i guess one set from the US first

Are the Rifles any better?

thanks


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#2 Howard Jones

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:55 AM

View PostThayneil, on 05 December 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

I can get the FST 115s locally  for $10  a club,is there any advantage to getting the  Rifles from the US?

I work on my own clubs,have done for 30 years


I would like to find out the tipping required to get the flexes matched so i guess one set from the US first

Are the Rifles any better?

thanks

I dont know FST shafts at all, i never worked with them, but i know Rifle, so the reason i reply is only to tell you that you can buy Rifles in Europe or Asia too if thats where you belong, just look up your nearest True Temper Performance Fitting Center.

https://www.truetemp...fc/#search-form

IMO, Rifle FCM is the "best" descending weight shaft ever made, and i dont think the low price brand FST belongs to the same level, so it want be a fair compare, while if it was Rifle FCM vs KBS Tour Parallel, we talk shafts that both can and should be compared as options to each other.

2

#3 Thayneil

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:14 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 06 December 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostThayneil, on 05 December 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

I can get the FST 115s locally  for $10  a club,is there any advantage to getting the  Rifles from the US?

I work on my own clubs,have done for 30 years


I would like to find out the tipping required to get the flexes matched so i guess one set from the US first

Are the Rifles any better?

thanks

I dont know FST shafts at all, i never worked with them, but i know Rifle, so the reason i reply is only to tell you that you can buy Rifles in Europe or Asia too if thats where you belong, just look up your nearest True Temper Performance Fitting Center.

https://www.truetemp...fc/#search-form

IMO, Rifle FCM is the "best" descending weight shaft ever made, and i dont think the low price brand FST belongs to the same level, so it want be a fair compare, while if it was Rifle FCM vs KBS Tour Parallel, we talk shafts that both can and should be compared as options to each other.

thanks Howard

I would have access  to a whole  box of shafts and could match 6 for weight and cpm

But i know what you mean,I can get the old  44 inch blanks from Shaftology in the Us for  $14 each

Its what i played in the 90s  when i was half decent

I know enough and  have learned enough from you to  get them bang on

I will order a dozen or so and see

thanks

3

#4 Howard Jones

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:01 AM

View PostThayneil, on 06 December 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 06 December 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostThayneil, on 05 December 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

I can get the FST 115s locally  for $10  a club,is there any advantage to getting the  Rifles from the US?

I work on my own clubs,have done for 30 years


I would like to find out the tipping required to get the flexes matched so i guess one set from the US first

Are the Rifles any better?

thanks

I dont know FST shafts at all, i never worked with them, but i know Rifle, so the reason i reply is only to tell you that you can buy Rifles in Europe or Asia too if thats where you belong, just look up your nearest True Temper Performance Fitting Center.

https://www.truetemp...fc/#search-form

IMO, Rifle FCM is the "best" descending weight shaft ever made, and i dont think the low price brand FST belongs to the same level, so it want be a fair compare, while if it was Rifle FCM vs KBS Tour Parallel, we talk shafts that both can and should be compared as options to each other.

thanks Howard

I would have access  to a whole  box of shafts and could match 6 for weight and cpm

But i know what you mean,I can get the old  44 inch blanks from Shaftology in the Us for  $14 each

Its what i played in the 90s  when i was half decent

I know enough and  have learned enough from you to  get them bang on

I will order a dozen or so and see

thanks

You dont need a whole box for weight sorting if its Parallels you will use, only if its tapers.
- When we use parallels, we simply sort them uncut to a "micro ascending weight" so we always use the most heavy shaft for the shortest club and the lightest for the longest. CPM is adjusted by tip trim if the blanks vary, but they are always within plus minus 1 CPM, so the blanks is often more precise than our own prepares and the job we add to it all,(hosel dept, insert, tip trim) so dont worry if its Parallels, just get the numbers of shafts you need. (44" tour van blanks is parallels)

...and for 14 USD each....spread the word, thats a no brainer and there is so many hard core RIFLE FCM players out there who dont know that they still can get this shafts, and for some reason the info out there is so bad that many think RIFLE is out of the marked, but it newer was, its still here both as old and new model.

if you go for them (if you dont you will regret), just ask again before you start cutting anything to make sure you dont cut anything wrong when you dont have extra shafts as reserves so remember Club making rule #1 - Measure AT LEAST twice, cut once

is it a classic set with 4/8" between clubs or a more modern 3/8" set up with progressive SW thats your plan?

Edited by Howard Jones, 07 December 2018 - 01:12 AM.


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#5 Howard Jones

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:52 AM

i can see now that its about FCM 4.5 but be aware of that when we use RIFLE FCM Tour van blanks, we very often starts from a SOFTER blank than target, so if target if FCM 4.5, you should also consider 4.0 blanks and go for the ones thats the best fit on weight.

I made this "comparable weight" chart where parallels is converted to be "constant weight" shafts for direct compare of uncut specs.
The wgt you see here for each club in the set, is the weight a constant wgt shaft would have uncut.

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry10138517

Example
- If you use 4.5 blanks, your PW shaft is equal to a 107.7 (or 108) grams constant wgt shaft and the #3 iron shaft would be equal to 117.3 or 117 grams as constant weight. The grey row to the right tells us the descending wgt from longest to shortest becomes 9.5 grams

- if you use 4.0 blanks, your PW shaft is equal to a 105.2 (or 105) grams constant wgt shaft and the #3 iron shaft would be equal to 114.5 as constant weight. The grey row to the right tells us the descending wgt from longest to shortest becomes 9.3 grams

When we weight sort the uncut blanks to a micro ascending slope, we reduce the wgt difference from longest to shortest, and when going 3/8" we improve that even more where descending weight shafts can get close to constant wgt. On RIFLE FCM we cant get there, production quality is way to high so they dont vary enough on wgt to tale advantage of varieties in production, but for some other shafts on the marked we can.

RIFLE FCM 6.0 SEMI ASCENDING WEIGHT FLIGHTED

im about to put all my RIFLE FCM stuff together so anyone can access it for the future, and it contains a few projects i never made, i never got that far but the numbers was done, so i have a set up for advanced use of a mixed base set up with RIFLE FCM that becomes SEMI ASCENDING WGT when built, so with RIFLEs we can do almost anything we like, and thats why i love them, and feel is fantastic too when flex is set right for the player.

In THIS example ive used a mix of Tour van blanks to build a FLIGHTED 3/8" set, SEMI Ascending wgt.
Normally a Flighted set of Rifle FCM would use "soft stepped heavy long irons" and "hard stepped light short irons", but we can make it upside down if we want to, and build a FCM 6.0 set from a mix of 5.0-5.5-6.0 and 6.5 blanks. if we can weight sort the blanks and take advantage of the small differences there is, we can make a set where the long irons becomes about 117 grams, and short irons about 121 grams as comparable uncut weight to tapers so you get the picture of the weight range this set up should be judged as.

To make this possible, ive used altered flex slope on the old model, like the new model is made when we go FLIGHTED, so the flex slope is NOT equal to how the old model as flighted normally is made.

The Original RIFLE FCM both standard and Flighted had a flex slope of 4.3 CPM from club to club in classic 4/8" sets, or 8.6 CPM pr. inch. The NEW RIFLE FCM > 2012 gets Flighted by using a altered flex slope from the #6 iron both ways of, 5.66 CPM between 4/8" clubs or 11.33 CPM pr inch. The Custom slope ive used to compose this FCM 6.0 SEMI ASC. FLGT set is 5.80 or 11.60 CPM pr. inch, so its very close to the NEW FLIGHTED, but with a "better weight system" than Descending weight is.

This set up makes the longer and "lighter" clubs a bit softer who helps on launch just like the lower shaft weight does, while the shorter end becomes higher in weight and a tad stronger than standard to keep flight down. We do NOT get the exact same ball flight as the normal Flighted set up, this will be "less Flighted" but still in that direction vs MID flight. i expect that we get about half way there or better, so we could for the fun of it say this set becomes "Semi Ascending, Semi Flighted"

i will improve the charts before i collect it all in a PDF, this is just "ripped " from my own excel sheets and it was not prepared to show others, but texts like above makes no sense if you cant get to see the actual set up im talking about so here it is.
Launch is expected APEX difference as yards due to THIS flex slope vs standard for FCM 6.0, but not included the influence higher vs lower shaft wgt gives who pushes apex even higher in the long, and lower in the short since we cant set a number for that.

RIFLE SEMI ASCENDING FLGT.PNG

Its the WEIGHT issue we improve BIG time vs the original Flighted or standard Descending weight.
The Original RIFLE FCM FLG set up become even more descending than standard with about 20 grams from 3 to PW, so the set up ive describing here gives some shaft weight differences to the original FLG that should blow your mind. If we compare the original to this custom set up, we get a #3 iron almost 13 grams lighter than it was, and a PW thats about 9 grams UP from what it was, so we turn it all "up side down".

If we make the compare against a standard RIFLE FCM 6.0 Descending wgt set, this Custom set up gives long irons thats 9 grams lighter, mid irons thats equal, and short irons thats PLUS 3.5 grams vs standard 6.0. Converted to uncut constant weight for direct compare as "uncut weight", the shafts Looks like this.

Fooore Semi ASC Rifle WGT compare.PNG

Ann this is how Tip trim and net tip lenght looks like on this set up.
The shafts ends up in "pairs" with equal tip lenght, but different shaft blank, so the progressive higher launch comes from a steeper slope or softer into the long, plus the reduced shaft wgt. vs the Standard FCM 6.0 Descending weight or FCM 6.0 Flighted.

RIFLE FCM SEMI ASC FLGT Tip trim.PNG

PS! we can also make RIFLE FCM to play like a LOW launch shaft from long to short, and those are called "Tour Flighted" who is LOW launch all the way like DG. Tour Flighted is "hard stepped 1.5x" so Tour van blanks is not always for high or mid launch sets, anything can be made with them as basis.

RIFLE FCM Tour van blanks is "the KING of custom shaft", and because the old is 44" and the new is 43", we can do more using the old version than we can with the new, so the old version is the most versatile and the most valuable if you ask me.

Edited by Howard Jones, 09 December 2018 - 03:48 AM.


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#6 Thayneil

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:44 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 07 December 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:

i can see now that its about FCM 4.5 but be aware of that when we use RIFLE FCM Tour van blanks, we very often starts from a SOFTER blank than target, so if target if FCM 4.5, you should also consider 4.0 blanks and go for the ones thats the best fit on weight.

I made this "comparable weight" chart where parallels is converted to be "constant weight" shafts for direct compare of uncut specs.
The wgt you see here for each club in the set, is the weight a constant wgt shaft would have uncut.

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry10138517

Example
- If you use 4.5 blanks, your PW shaft is equal to a 107.7 (or 108) grams constant wgt shaft and the #3 iron shaft would be equal to 117.3 or 117 grams as constant weight. The grey row to the right tells us the descending wgt from longest to shortest becomes 9.5 grams

- if you use 4.0 blanks, your PW shaft is equal to a 105.2 (or 105) grams constant wgt shaft and the #3 iron shaft would be equal to 114.5 as constant weight. The grey row to the right tells us the descending wgt from longest to shortest becomes 9.3 grams

When we weight sort the uncut blanks to a micro ascending slope, we reduce the wgt difference from longest to shortest, and when going 3/8" we improve that even more where descending weight shafts can get close to constant wgt. On RIFLE FCM we cant get there, production quality is way to high so they dont vary enough on wgt to tale advantage of varieties in production, but for some other shafts on the marked we can.

im about to put all my RIFLE FCM stuff together so anyone can access it for the future, and it contains a few projects i never made, i never got that far but the numbers was done, so i have a set up for advanced use of a mixed base set up with RIFLE FCM that becomes SEMI ASCENDING WGT when built, so with RIFLEs we can do almost anything we like, and thats why i love them, and feel is fantastic too when flex is set right for the player.

In THIS example ive used a mix of Tour van blanks to build a FLIGHTED 3/8" set, SEMI Ascending wgt.
Normally a Flighted set of Rifle FCM would use "soft stepped heavy long irons" and "hard stepped light short irons", but we can make it upside down if we want to, and build a FCM 6.0 set from a mix of 5.0-5.5-6.0 and 6.5 blanks. if we can weight sort the blanks and take advantage of the small differences there is, we can make a set where the long irons becomes about 117 grams long irons and 121 grams as comparable uncut weight to tapers so you get the picture of the weight range this set up should be judged as.

To make this possible, ive used altered flex slope on the old model, like the new model is made when we go FLIGHTED, so the flex slope is NOT equal to how the old model as flighted normally is made. This set up makes the longer and "lighter" clubs a bit softer who helps on launch just like the lower shaft weight does, while the shorter end becomes higher in weight and a tad stronger than standard to keep flight down. We do NOT get the exact same ball flight as the normal flighted set up, this will be "less flighted" but still in that direction vs MID flight. i expect that we get about half way there or better, so we could for the fun of it say this set becomes "Semi Ascending, Semi Flighted"

RIFLE FCM Tour van blanks is "the KING of custom shaft", and because the old is 44" and the new is 43", we can do more using the old version than we can with the new, so the old version is the most versatile and the most valuable if you ask me.

i will improve the charts before i collect it all in a PDF, this is just "ripped " from my own excel sheets and is not prepared to show others, but texts like above makes no sense if you cant get to see the actual set up im talking about so here it is.
Launch is expected APEX difference as feets due to THIS flex slope vs standard for FCM 6.0, but not included the influence higher vs lower shaft wgt gives who pushes apex even higher in the long, and lower in the short since we cant set a number for that.

Attachment RIFLE SEMI ASCENDING FLGT.PNG

Its the WEIGHT issue we improve BIG time vs the original Flighted set up where FLG become even more descending than standard, so the set up ive describing here gives some shaft weight differences to the original FLG that should blow your mind. If we compare the original to this custom set up, we get a #3 iron almost 13 grams lighter than it was, and a PW thats about 9 grams UP from what it was, so we turn it all "up side down". Converted to  uncut constant weight shafts it looks like this.

Attachment Fooore Semi ASC Rifle WGT compare.PNG

PS! we can also make RIFLE FCM to play like a LOW launch shaft from long to short, and those are called "Tour Flighted" who is LOW launch all the way like DG. Tour Flighted is "hard stepped 1.5x" so Tour van blanks is not always for high or mid launch sets, anything can be made with them as basis.
tha

thanks Howard

that will take time to get through,but buying the 4.0s  not an option as they start at 4.5s.They are the blanks so there will be plenty of  tip area to play about with.

lets see if they are still available.,shows they are,and get them sent to Thailand

Many thanks will re read  your text and learn!

Edited by Thayneil, 07 December 2018 - 03:48 AM.


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#7 Cwebb

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:11 PM

Yes the FST Pro 115 will allow you to hit a 4.5 frequency....if that's part of what you're asking.

By they way, the FST Pro 125 has a nearly identical bend profile to the Rifle 5.0....and the True Temper TT Lite R/S .370.  So even though FST labels them as an S/X flex, I consider them to really be a R/S

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#8 Thayneil

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:01 AM

View PostCwebb, on 08 December 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Yes the FST Pro 115 will allow you to hit a 4.5 frequency....if that's part of what you're asking.

By they way, the FST Pro 125 has a nearly identical bend profile to the Rifle 5.0....and the True Temper TT Lite R/S .370.  So even though FST labels them as an S/X flex, I consider them to really be a R/S

thanks

my data shows the  A flex at 2.6 and the R at 3.4 ,this is compared to Rifle  Cpms

at 3/16th per cpm   about 33/16th  required over standard tipping  say  2 inches,assuming the shaft i get is close to the test sample!


i will try one and see how it goes,but for long term will get the Rifles so i know exactly what ive got

thanks

Edited by Thayneil, 09 December 2018 - 12:10 AM.


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#9 Thayneil

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:07 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 07 December 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

View PostThayneil, on 06 December 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 06 December 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostThayneil, on 05 December 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

I can get the FST 115s locally  for $10  a club,is there any advantage to getting the  Rifles from the US?

I work on my own clubs,have done for 30 years


I would like to find out the tipping required to get the flexes matched so i guess one set from the US first

Are the Rifles any better?

thanks

I dont know FST shafts at all, i never worked with them, but i know Rifle, so the reason i reply is only to tell you that you can buy Rifles in Europe or Asia too if thats where you belong, just look up your nearest True Temper Performance Fitting Center.

https://www.truetemp...fc/#search-form

IMO, Rifle FCM is the "best" descending weight shaft ever made, and i dont think the low price brand FST belongs to the same level, so it want be a fair compare, while if it was Rifle FCM vs KBS Tour Parallel, we talk shafts that both can and should be compared as options to each other.

thanks Howard

I would have access  to a whole  box of shafts and could match 6 for weight and cpm

But i know what you mean,I can get the old  44 inch blanks from Shaftology in the Us for  $14 each

Its what i played in the 90s  when i was half decent

I know enough and  have learned enough from you to  get them bang on

I will order a dozen or so and see

thanks

You dont need a whole box for weight sorting if its Parallels you will use, only if its tapers.
- When we use parallels, we simply sort them uncut to a "micro ascending weight" so we always use the most heavy shaft for the shortest club and the lightest for the longest. CPM is adjusted by tip trim if the blanks vary, but they are always within plus minus 1 CPM, so the blanks is often more precise than our own prepares and the job we add to it all,(hosel dept, insert, tip trim) so dont worry if its Parallels, just get the numbers of shafts you need. (44" tour van blanks is parallels)

...and for 14 USD each....spread the word, thats a no brainer and there is so many hard core RIFLE FCM players out there who dont know that they still can get this shafts, and for some reason the info out there is so bad that many think RIFLE is out of the marked, but it newer was, its still here both as old and new model.

if you go for them (if you dont you will regret), just ask again before you start cutting anything to make sure you dont cut anything wrong when you dont have extra shafts as reserves so remember Club making rule #1 - Measure AT LEAST twice, cut once

is it a classic set with 4/8" between clubs or a more modern 3/8" set up with progressive SW thats your plan?

missed that one Howard

it will be 6-pw and i will go the 3/8 route

thanks

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