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Taylormade Tour Issue 2016-2018 M Series Drivers....Trackman Comparison Data

Tour issue M2 M1 M3 M4 Taylormade Tour Tour only Trackman

164 replies to this topic

#31 ZA206

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:09 PM

Can’t wait to see the results with the 115 mph club head speeds!

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#32 Gtyler14

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:23 AM

View PostTollBros, on 05 December 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 05 December 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hmmm, very interesting.

Toll - do you have dispersion numbers for this tester? Not just the "distance from center" dispersion number but farthest left and right numbers?

Very interesting that 8.5 m4 is on par with 8.5 16 m2. That makes me happy since it helps validate that going from 9.5 16 m2 to 8.5 m4 will be solid.

Dispersion numbers get better with each progression of the line. M4 with twist face is pretty clearly the most accurate of the entire bunch. M2 2016 does have the slight edge on ball speed in ONLY the 8.5 loft, which was Tour issue only and the reason the PGA Tour went back to both air cannon testing as well as CT. Lower swing speeds tested different lofts so stay tuned for that. The results are not the same for every speed.

Agreed Toll. I have a tour issue m4 8.5(9.1) actual and it is the best driver I have ever had. Its the best Iíve had as far as dispersion.
Tour issue M4 8.5 w/ Kuro Kage dual core 70TX tipped 1Ē 44Ē
Tour issue M1 T3 14.3 Kuro Kage dual core 80TX tipped 1 42.5Ē or Diamana bf 80TX tipped 1
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#33 PatsNation

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:58 PM

Any of the testers in the 105-110 range like us normal folks

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#34 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:23 PM

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

Any of the testers in the 105-110 range like us normal folks

"TollBros Posted Yesterday, 12:48 PM
125mph Head results. We will eventually post 115, 110, and 105 as well."

View PostGtyler14, on 06 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 05 December 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 05 December 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hmmm, very interesting.

Toll - do you have dispersion numbers for this tester? Not just the "distance from center" dispersion number but farthest left and right numbers?

Very interesting that 8.5 m4 is on par with 8.5 16 m2. That makes me happy since it helps validate that going from 9.5 16 m2 to 8.5 m4 will be solid.

Dispersion numbers get better with each progression of the line. M4 with twist face is pretty clearly the most accurate of the entire bunch. M2 2016 does have the slight edge on ball speed in ONLY the 8.5 loft, which was Tour issue only and the reason the PGA Tour went back to both air cannon testing as well as CT. Lower swing speeds tested different lofts so stay tuned for that. The results are not the same for every speed.

Agreed Toll. I have a tour issue m4 8.5(9.1) actual and it is the best driver I have ever had. Its the best I've had as far as dispersion.

M3 and M4 are undeniably more accurate than the previous models. M4 particularly.
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#35 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:25 PM

View PostZA206, on 05 December 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

Can’t wait to see the results with the 115 mph club head speeds!

On the way right now.

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#36 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.

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#37 PatsNation

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

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#38 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:39 PM

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

The whole M line is fantastic in my opinion. Of the currently 42 guys we have employed to test in some capacity, about 35 play Taylormade drivers. They are as good as anything made, AND you can choose the exact loft and face angle you want without being stuck with one of those single loft heads that require you to lay the driver wide open faced to decrease "loft" or shut the face to increase "loft".

As for M4, the twist face makes it the most accurate of the bunch, and the ball speed is maybe not quite at 2016 M2 8.5 level, but it's close enough, and noticeably more accurate. I think, overall for most people, it's the best of the M line yet, and a decent step forward from the 2017 line, which other than the 440 head, was a step back from 2016.

I should add that M1 drivers are tested with the back weight in the center position, so if you need really low spin, you can still knock off maybe 200 rpm more in the M1 and M3 heads by moving the weight all the way forward.
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#39 PatsNation

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:44 PM

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

The whole M line is fantastic in my opinion. Of the currently 42 guys we have employed to test in some capacity, about 35 play Taylormade drivers. They are as good as anything made, AND you can choose the exact loft and face angle you want without being stuck with one of those single loft heads that require you to lay the driver wide open faced to decrease "loft" or shut the face to increase "loft".

As for M4, the twist face makes it the most accurate of the bunch, and the ball speed is maybe not quite at 2016 M2 8.5 level, but it's close enough, and noticeably more accurate. I think, overall for most people, it's the best of the M line yet, and a decent step forward from the 2017 line, which other than the 440 head, was a step back from 2016.

I should add that M1 drivers are tested with the back weight in the center position, so if you need really low spin, you can still knock off maybe 200 rpm more in the M1 and M3 heads by moving the weight all the way forward.
Any thoughts on M3 440?

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#40 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

The whole M line is fantastic in my opinion. Of the currently 42 guys we have employed to test in some capacity, about 35 play Taylormade drivers. They are as good as anything made, AND you can choose the exact loft and face angle you want without being stuck with one of those single loft heads that require you to lay the driver wide open faced to decrease "loft" or shut the face to increase "loft".

As for M4, the twist face makes it the most accurate of the bunch, and the ball speed is maybe not quite at 2016 M2 8.5 level, but it's close enough, and noticeably more accurate. I think, overall for most people, it's the best of the M line yet, and a decent step forward from the 2017 line, which other than the 440 head, was a step back from 2016.

I should add that M1 drivers are tested with the back weight in the center position, so if you need really low spin, you can still knock off maybe 200 rpm more in the M1 and M3 heads by moving the weight all the way forward.
Any thoughts on M3 440?

We have all that data, but it tends to be misleading because they do require pretty solid strikes and vary wildly in spin rates based on AOA and speed through the ball. If you are interested, I certainly can fit you into whatever head would be most suitable, however we won't be posting data on those heads.

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#41 manima1

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:19 PM

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

Agree, I've been impressed.  Surprising with it's supposedly much higher CG location than the rest of the heads in this test.
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#42 Valtiel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:25 PM

View Postmanima1, on 06 December 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

Agree, I've been impressed.  Surprising with it's supposedly much higher CG location than the rest of the heads in this test.

I think in this case it is being buoyed by the high MOI which helps mitigate the negative effects of high CG and is only proving what the G400 MAX has taught us; high MOI is the rising tide that floats all boats.
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#43 Rosco1216

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:28 PM

I see ya JT almost cracking a 190 ballspeed average.
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#44 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:32 PM

View Postmanima1, on 06 December 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

View PostPatsNation, on 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

115 Data up. We will be switching lofts for the lower speeds as the 8.5's just weren't spinning enough to get any useful data.
M4 been doing pretty well...

Agree, I've been impressed.  Surprising with it's supposedly much higher CG location than the rest of the heads in this test.

I think it's always been Taylormade's intention to keep these drivers fairly similar in launch and spin from one generation to the next, while slowly implementing more and more tech into each progressive line. The 2016 line was special, 2017 missed the mark a bit, however I did think the 440 M1 head was excellent and a step forward. Then comes tweaks to the line, along with twist face and some counteractive CG/MOI set up and they have moved forward again. I'd say the 2018 line incorporates all the things everyone loved about the 2016 line with some progressive tech to improve the drivers across the board. It's almost like the 2017 line was sort of a lateral bridge to get to the good stuff in 2018. I personally hit the M4 just as well as my 2016 8.5 degree M2, but I trust the M2 and have had the driver for 3 years and know just where to hit it, what it does, how to move it, etc. If I was starting over, or had a different loft, I'd make the shift, but being totally transparent, I'm going to keep playing my 2016 M2 8.5 head because I know that loft fails the air cannon test on Tour and I don't really need the benefits that the M4 offers, however, 99% of all golfers do.
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#45 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:34 PM

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

I see ya JT almost cracking a 190 ballspeed average.

In all honesty, the 2016 8.5 M2 head is my actual on course gamer driver. haha. I simply set up all the rest of the heads the same way, so my comfort zone is as high as it gets and I can really rip into it. Normally I'm a few mph slower testing stuff I don't hit every day.

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#46 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:48 PM

I've posted this a few times, but it always gets lost in the shuffle. I figured I would share how we set up the M2 and M4 Taylormade drivers to get the best performance out of the heads.

First off we suggest you drop .75-1 degree of ACTUAL loft on the face. Easy to do with hand picked Tour heads. With retail this is pointless because of production tolerances which leave with no real idea what the exact loft on the face is, or what the next driver will be. Then instead of loading the head up with hot melt or some guys use lead tape, we like to put the heaviest back weight possible to get swing weight where the player wants it. This will increase launch and spin, but dropping the degree of loft will neutralize those, and give you the launch and spin you are used to, with higher ball speeds and higher MOI for more forgiveness.
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#47 Rosco1216

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:40 PM

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

I see ya JT almost cracking a 190 ballspeed average.

In all honesty, the 2016 8.5 M2 head is my actual on course gamer driver. haha. I simply set up all the rest of the heads the same way, so my comfort zone is as high as it gets and I can really rip into it. Normally I'm a few mph slower testing stuff I don't hit every day.
Youíre smoking me now! Iím so far out of mid season form itís pathetic. The only trackman within a 3 hour drive is currently out of commission and I canít seem to get within 8 mph ballspeed of what I use get on the old gc2 at golf galaxy. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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#48 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:16 PM

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

I see ya JT almost cracking a 190 ballspeed average.

In all honesty, the 2016 8.5 M2 head is my actual on course gamer driver. haha. I simply set up all the rest of the heads the same way, so my comfort zone is as high as it gets and I can really rip into it. Normally I'm a few mph slower testing stuff I don't hit every day.
Youíre smoking me now! Iím so far out of mid season form itís pathetic. The only trackman within a 3 hour drive is currently out of commission and I canít seem to get within 8 mph ballspeed of what I use get on the old gc2 at golf galaxy. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Now you're trying to dupe me. Haha. I wouldn't step up against you in a ball speed contest for anything. That's a sucker's bet and I'm not taking it! Haha
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#49 Rosco1216

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:28 PM

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

I see ya JT almost cracking a 190 ballspeed average.

In all honesty, the 2016 8.5 M2 head is my actual on course gamer driver. haha. I simply set up all the rest of the heads the same way, so my comfort zone is as high as it gets and I can really rip into it. Normally I'm a few mph slower testing stuff I don't hit every day.
Youíre smoking me now! Iím so far out of mid season form itís pathetic. The only trackman within a 3 hour drive is currently out of commission and I canít seem to get within 8 mph ballspeed of what I use get on the old gc2 at golf galaxy. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Now you're trying to dupe me. Haha. I wouldn't step up against you in a ball speed contest for anything. That's a sucker's bet and I'm not taking it! Haha

Iím 100% serious!

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#50 03trdblack

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:24 PM

View Post03trdblack, on 03 December 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Can you translate what all the different measurements on the stickers are and what they indicate for each head?

Guess not.


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#51 CKalma

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:24 PM

Damn. The 2017 M2 has nearly a 10 yard difference from the 2016 versions of themselves and both the m3/m4. I feel like I've had pretty good success with my 17 M2 in comparison with my 16 M2 before it broke. I will say I had noticed some shots that looked like they had way more spin on them and after seeing this it makes sense. Looks like I have a decision to make over the winter...
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#52 getitdaily

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:59 PM

Toll -

Thanks for the time on these tests and for posting. I know you guys are in the equipment business so my apologies for what will follow (not buying from you)....

Your data on the m4 with just the first 2 testers is what I saw in both launch monitor and on course testing (actually, on course was better than inside).

Now I'm not apples to apples. I've been playing the 16 m2 in a 9.5 head for a while. That head was giving me 12ish launch and 2200-2400 spin. M4 8.5 was showing 13.5-15 launch and the same spin numbers. Took the club on the course,one I play often, and was driving the ball into spots I don't usually with the 16. BUT it was so much straighter, even on mishits. Par 5 8th, hit a toe side shot that got nearly as much as the 16 would have gotten.

Had decided to get an m4 after that (2 weeks ago). Picked it up today. Hit it on the monitors before I left and was getting same launch but a bit less spin...1900-2300. Ballspeeds at 158-162. "Dry ball" carries near 280..that's big for me (108-110 clubhead). 16 m2 was always 156-158 but carry rarely got over 275.

Best of all, painting the center line. I'm ready for Saturday's round...told my buddy to prepare to hit all his approaches first.

So thanks for the reinforcement to make the move to m4, even though I didn't buy from you (I'm not a tour head guy)..plus my local retailer helped me a bunch the last few weeks..kind of owned them the sell.

Edited by getitdaily, 06 December 2018 - 10:01 PM.


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#53 TollBros

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:56 PM

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

Toll -

Thanks for the time on these tests and for posting. I know you guys are in the equipment business so my apologies for what will follow (not buying from you)....

Your data on the m4 with just the first 2 testers is what I saw in both launch monitor and on course testing (actually, on course was better than inside).

Now I'm not apples to apples. I've been playing the 16 m2 in a 9.5 head for a while. That head was giving me 12ish launch and 2200-2400 spin. M4 8.5 was showing 13.5-15 launch and the same spin numbers. Took the club on the course,one I play often, and was driving the ball into spots I don't usually with the 16. BUT it was so much straighter, even on mishits. Par 5 8th, hit a toe side shot that got nearly as much as the 16 would have gotten.

Had decided to get an m4 after that (2 weeks ago). Picked it up today. Hit it on the monitors before I left and was getting same launch but a bit less spin...1900-2300. Ballspeeds at 158-162. "Dry ball" carries near 280..that's big for me (108-110 clubhead). 16 m2 was always 156-158 but carry rarely got over 275.

Best of all, painting the center line. I'm ready for Saturday's round...told my buddy to prepare to hit all his approaches first.

So thanks for the reinforcement to make the move to m4, even though I didn't buy from you (I'm not a tour head guy)..plus my local retailer helped me a bunch the last few weeks..kind of owned them the sell.

No worries, although sales do help give us the time to keep doing these types of threads. ;) Just saying. Haha.

Seriously though, I'm glad your on course experience is mirroring what we see in testing. The more we can help people enjoy the game, the better, no matter where they buy from. And if these types of threads make you consider us in the future, then it's a win for everyone in the end. :)
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#54 golfing_penguin

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:07 AM

View Postlonscicles, on 05 December 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

Epic

No no, Taylormade!









:pimp:

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#55 TollBros

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:51 AM

View Postgolfing_penguin, on 07 December 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

View Postlonscicles, on 05 December 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

Epic

No no, Taylormade!









:pimp:

I took it as epic thread, and a compliment. hahah

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#56 Hookasaurus Rex

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:31 PM

View PostCKalma, on 06 December 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

Damn. The 2017 M2 has nearly a 10 yard difference from the 2016 versions of themselves and both the m3/m4. I feel like I've had pretty good success with my 17 M2 in comparison with my 16 M2 before it broke. I will say I had noticed some shots that looked like they had way more spin on them and after seeing this it makes sense. Looks like I have a decision to make over the winter...

Same for me.  I have tour issue 16 and 17 M2 heads and I see virtually the same performance.  I don't know why.  Maybe my pedestrian 103-108 swingspeed doesn't elicit much difference between the heads.  The 16 may be slightly longer overall, but the 17 is definitely more forgiving. All I know is I like both of them.

Edited by Hookasaurus Rex, 07 December 2018 - 11:34 PM.

Tour Issue 2017 M2 9.5 Fujikura 661 Evolution ii
TEE Exotics E8 beta 15* Aldila Rogue Silver 70s
Titleist 913h 19*  Aldila Tour Green 85hs
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#57 NRJyzr

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:10 AM

View PostHookasaurus Rex, on 07 December 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

View PostCKalma, on 06 December 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

Damn. The 2017 M2 has nearly a 10 yard difference from the 2016 versions of themselves and both the m3/m4. I feel like I've had pretty good success with my 17 M2 in comparison with my 16 M2 before it broke. I will say I had noticed some shots that looked like they had way more spin on them and after seeing this it makes sense. Looks like I have a decision to make over the winter...

Same for me.  I have tour issue 16 and 17 M2 heads and I see virtually the same performance.  I don't know why.  Maybe my pedestrian 103-108 swingspeed doesn't elicit much difference between the heads.  The 16 may be slightly longer overall, but the 17 is definitely more forgiving. All I know is I like both of them.

Could even be manufacturing tolerances.  One head a little hotter, one head a little less so...  <shrug>


This thread is pure awesome.  A tip of the hat and polite golf applause to JT.

Edited by NRJyzr, 08 December 2018 - 09:14 AM.

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Driver:  Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
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#58 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 12:19 PM

I played the OG M2 and now play the Ď17 M2, and my results are similar. Ď17 M2 launches a touch higher and spins more, both of which I needed.
Taylormade M2 ('17) 10.5*
Cobra F7 15.5*
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#59 Rosco1216

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 04:32 PM

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

I've posted this a few times, but it always gets lost in the shuffle. I figured I would share how we set up the M2 and M4 Taylormade drivers to get the best performance out of the heads.

First off we suggest you drop .75-1 degree of ACTUAL loft on the face. Easy to do with hand picked Tour heads. With retail this is pointless because of production tolerances which leave with no real idea what the exact loft on the face is, or what the next driver will be. Then instead of loading the head up with hot melt or some guys use lead tape, we like to put the heaviest back weight possible to get swing weight where the player wants it. This will increase launch and spin, but dropping the degree of loft will neutralize those, and give you the launch and spin you are used to, with higher ball speeds and higher MOI for more forgiveness.
This has me intrigued about an m4.
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#60 TollBros

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:55 AM

View PostRosco1216, on 08 December 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

View PostTollBros, on 06 December 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

I've posted this a few times, but it always gets lost in the shuffle. I figured I would share how we set up the M2 and M4 Taylormade drivers to get the best performance out of the heads.

First off we suggest you drop .75-1 degree of ACTUAL loft on the face. Easy to do with hand picked Tour heads. With retail this is pointless because of production tolerances which leave with no real idea what the exact loft on the face is, or what the next driver will be. Then instead of loading the head up with hot melt or some guys use lead tape, we like to put the heaviest back weight possible to get swing weight where the player wants it. This will increase launch and spin, but dropping the degree of loft will neutralize those, and give you the launch and spin you are used to, with higher ball speeds and higher MOI for more forgiveness.
This has me intrigued about an m4.

It's the exact way I play my M2. 44.5 inches, D1.5, 3 grams of melt for sound and the rest in a 12 gram back weight, at just under 7 degrees of true loft, slightly open, but not much. The set up is awesome. It's the same way I set up my M4 in the test for direct comparison.

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Also tagged with Tour issue, M2, M1, M3, M4, Taylormade, Tour, Tour only, Trackman

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