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Toulon calls out Scotty for copying


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#31 wkuo3

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 03:09 PM

View PostRodrigoNicely, on 01 December 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 01 December 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Debatable !

Not a Registered Trade Mark, not on the Pattern Right .......... It's a design which other used / copied.

Of course the original owner would not be pleased especially when someone else has more success with it.

Does he have more success with it!?! His Headcover market has tanked and his putters aren't holding their value like they used to.

I believe S.C. had marketed the putter like no one else before him and many failed to copy after.  With that, his branded putter head cover and golf bags and accessory......also have a narrow market segment by the market makers.
They have a line of quality putters, but does the line demand that kind of price point ?  I have no idea, especially those so called "collector's" edition of anything.
But, what do I know ?  If one knows how they could even sell Index Number on the Stock Exchange.


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#32 leftyDH04

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 03:19 PM

Scotty is a little "emporer without clothes" it seems.  No one in his organization brought attention to the Toulon cover?  Honestly I could see Scotty not realizing it, but someone should of.  Too easy to use STP red white and blue, etc. instead of Gulf.  Or even just different stripe patterns.  It's too similar but it's just one head cover, Sean seems whiny and irrelevant.  Not to mention he tee'd up the fact that they each make 3 or 4 PING knock off designs.  And Scotty was the first to go to a milled version which created the market for Toulon.  Roll in the mud and everyone just gets dirty.  It's a headcover.

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#33 Maximilian

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 03:33 PM

View PostFairwayFred, on 01 December 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

View Postdeep18, on 01 December 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Not defending Scotty (or anyone else) but especially in putters, everyone copies everyone else.  Yes there are a few examples of a groundbreaking design (like when the 2 ball came out) but for the most part, everyone is just tweaking everyone else’s ideas and around and around we go.

Even the 2 ball was "inspired" by Dave Pelz 3 ball putter.

But the difference is, Callaway bought the rights to the design from Pelz.

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#34 Shilgy

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 03:46 PM

View Post03trdblack, on 01 December 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think people are getting confused about what he's claiming as copied.  He's not referring to the putters but the headcover design and the special edition nature of the release using the exact same ideas and color scheme.

Scotty could have done something with the Shelby Cobra blue\white stripes or Jaguar British Racing Green but he chose the identical shell racing colors and identical headcover design down to the way it is laid out and everything. I'm not saying there's a copyright or anything but it's just lazy on Scotty's part and unoriginal.
Cameron could have chosen the same colors and not been accused of copying. Those headcovers look like they bought Toulon covers and just removed a logo and changed the number.
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#35 nova6868

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 03:59 PM

I like seeing Sean Toulon throw some heat Cameron's way. Toulon has come on strong in the high-end putter market with both classic designs and original designs. I hope they continue to take market share from Cameron.


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#36 Golfer4Life

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 04:01 PM

View Postshot-savior, on 01 December 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 30 November 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

View Postnoodle3872, on 30 November 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

Scotty's Circa 62 in yellow came out in 2006.

Toulon became a stand alone company in 2015 and started race car inspired cover shortly there after.

Bottom line; they all are great putter makers and share a love for race cars and racing.

I remember when he started using the circa 62 moniker like he was making putters since 1962, hilarious.
He was born in 1962; that's the reason for circa 62.

Right, right, lol...That was not his messaging,  it was deceptive.
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#37 DFinch

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 04:07 PM

The replies to the original tweet are the best part of the whole saga.
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#38 Scotty1140

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 04:31 PM

Wouldn’t expect anything less from Scotty Xerox.

Although it’s not like Toulon’s design is anything original.

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#39 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 05:50 PM

View PostGolfer4Life, on 01 December 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

View Postshot-savior, on 01 December 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 30 November 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

View Postnoodle3872, on 30 November 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

Scotty's Circa 62 in yellow came out in 2006.

Toulon became a stand alone company in 2015 and started race car inspired cover shortly there after.

Bottom line; they all are great putter makers and share a love for race cars and racing.

I remember when he started using the circa 62 moniker like he was making putters since 1962, hilarious.
He was born in 1962; that's the reason for circa 62.

Right, right, lol...That was not his messaging,  it was deceptive.

Not sure why anyone would be deceived into thinking that a guy who is middle aged now was making putters in 1962.
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#40 Scotty1140

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 01 December 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 01 December 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

View Postshot-savior, on 01 December 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 30 November 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

View Postnoodle3872, on 30 November 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

Scotty's Circa 62 in yellow came out in 2006.

Toulon became a stand alone company in 2015 and started race car inspired cover shortly there after.

Bottom line; they all are great putter makers and share a love for race cars and racing.

I remember when he started using the circa 62 moniker like he was making putters since 1962, hilarious.
He was born in 1962; that's the reason for circa 62.

Right, right, lol...That was not his messaging,  it was deceptive.

Not sure why anyone would be deceived into thinking that a guy who is middle aged now was making putters in 1962.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I remember reading 1962 is when TP Mills first started making putters that’s what the 62 is referencing. That line is a very Mills style line.

Edited by Scotty1140, 01 December 2018 - 06:51 PM.


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#41 Golfer4Life

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 06:55 PM

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 01 December 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 01 December 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

View Postshot-savior, on 01 December 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 30 November 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

View Postnoodle3872, on 30 November 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

Scotty's Circa 62 in yellow came out in 2006.

Toulon became a stand alone company in 2015 and started race car inspired cover shortly there after.

Bottom line; they all are great putter makers and share a love for race cars and racing.

I remember when he started using the circa 62 moniker like he was making putters since 1962, hilarious.
He was born in 1962; that's the reason for circa 62.

Right, right, lol...That was not his messaging,  it was deceptive.

Not sure why anyone would be deceived into thinking that a guy who is middle aged now was making putters in 1962.

That's the Don!  Plus, why use Circa then, unless he was been deceptive. He wasn't building anything in 1962.  

Check the meaning of circa my friend.

Edited by Golfer4Life, 01 December 2018 - 06:56 PM.

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#42 noodle3872

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:23 PM

Circa 62 explained;

“Performance infused with Old World style. Craftsmanship expressed in modern design. Beauty in measured simplicity. The Circa 62 line is all of these—and more. Mixing the finest traditional putter aesthetics with innovative new design, Scotty Cameron brings you his creations with character reminiscent of the Handmade, Classic, and Scottsman families.”
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#43 cxx

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:57 AM

None of these high end putter makers has any right to claim that someone copied their design.  Their putters are copies of someone else's designs. As far as the color scheme of the headcovers, give me a break.  If they think they have something to protect, get a trademark or copyright and sue in court.

There have been very few original designs that worked since the ping designs.  Most successful new designs gained popularity through performance in the hands of PGA tour pros.  The #7 with the horns on the back and that taylormade spider come to mind. Not even sure who gets the credit for those.

Edited by cxx, 02 December 2018 - 08:58 AM.


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#44 RSinSG

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:06 AM

Titleist suing Kirkland and PXG suing Taylormade are the most recent battles. This is standard MO for the industry.
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#45 GoGoErky

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:10 AM

Callaway/Odyssey copies the red putters from TM.


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#46 cxx

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:11 AM

View PostRSinSG, on 02 December 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

Titleist suing Kirkland and PXG suing Taylormade are the most recent battles. This is standard MO for the industry.

I think the Titleist/Kirkland thing is over.

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#47 Scotty1140

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:29 AM

View Postcxx, on 02 December 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

View PostRSinSG, on 02 December 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

Titleist suing Kirkland and PXG suing Taylormade are the most recent battles. This is standard MO for the industry.

I think the Titleist/Kirkland thing is over.

Is this why the K Sig is now a 3 piece instead of the original 4 piece?

Edited by Scotty1140, 02 December 2018 - 09:29 AM.


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#48 wkuo3

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:50 AM

In any case, propaganda for both sides, as more entry into this specialized putter market, even the front runner needs a little attention sometimes.
I would not be surprised is somebody ( not necessarily the principals ) from both sides had a little discussion before it happened.

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#49 SPY ZINGER

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 11:01 AM

Sean is the kind of guy that will give a nobody the time of day and treat them like they’re the most important person in the room.  One of the best in this game.

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#50 ckay

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 11:01 AM

Huge case of “pot meet kettle”

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#51 reider69

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 12:36 PM

Marketing works.  99% of golfers I encounter do not have knowledge of the guys on this board in regards to equipment.  I have had many many playing partners point out their Scotty to me and explain it is the best putter and they have never putted better.  The general perception by Joe Average golfer is Scotty makes the best putters.  Marketing has put this in their head and they believe it to be true.  If SC steals ideas and designs almost no one notices or cares among the vast majority of golfers. They are just hoping they can afford to buy a SC one day.  SC knows how to sell putters and I am sure his bank account makes him feel better when the haters hate!
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#52 GoGoErky

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 02:07 PM

Quote

Sean Toulon is one of the most well known and well respected people in the golf equipment industry.

And one of the nicest most fun guys !

a genuine guy that is passionate about what he does.  He is what is right about the golf industry.....


He's a typical marketing guy. My conversation with him in 2016 followed by his Callaway live appearance turned me off of him and anything toulon related and I was a fan of the San Diego and what they were doing.

My personal experience tells me all I need to know about the guy, pure class.

Not discrediting your personal experience. Everyone has the right to feel or think how they choose based on their experiences, interactions with who or whatever. Mine are different from you on him and that doesn’t make either of us right or wrong. This isn’t a thread about Sean or his family so I’m big going to take it down that road. Just offered a different take on a person mentioned here

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#53 DRRicks

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 03:29 PM

All of these guys should be quiet, as they all plagiarize. True putter innovation ended with Karsten Solheim a long time ago!
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#54 BrianMcG

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 04:26 PM

 FairwayFred, on 01 December 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

 deep18, on 01 December 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Not defending Scotty (or anyone else) but especially in putters, everyone copies everyone else.  Yes there are a few examples of a groundbreaking design (like when the 2 ball came out) but for the most part, everyone is just tweaking everyone else’s ideas and around and around we go.

Even the 2 ball was "inspired" by Dave Pelz 3 ball putter.

Well, since Pelz was with Odyssey at the time, not really the same.
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#55 pgagreg1

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 06:19 AM

They say all publicity is good. Good for Sean and good for Scotty.
People have been hating on Scotty for a long time and he just keeps rolling along.
I guess he doesn't need any internet trolls approval to do what he does.


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#56 Fade

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 07:20 AM

Jeez, it is only a putter cover, albeit a fancy one. Who invented fancy putter covers?

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#57 doublehans

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 07:32 AM

 huddledtoast, on 01 December 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

The Gulf racing livery (that specific orange and blue) has been used in hundreds (if not thousands) of applications in the decades since it was first seen in the 1960s. If Scotty is guilty of "copying" anything, then so is Toulon.

What a joke.

That's the funny part.  That Gulf design has been around for a long time, so Toulon is supposed to be original just because he incorporated it into a putter/cover before Scotty did?  I'd agree with whoever said this was probably a lazy idea for Scotty, but if you want to call Scotty out for copying, geez, don't pick out something that wasn't very original to begin with.

Edited by doublehans, 03 December 2018 - 07:35 AM.


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#58 GoGoErky

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 08:01 AM

 doublehans, on 03 December 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

 huddledtoast, on 01 December 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

The Gulf racing livery (that specific orange and blue) has been used in hundreds (if not thousands) of applications in the decades since it was first seen in the 1960s. If Scotty is guilty of "copying" anything, then so is Toulon.

What a joke.

That's the funny part.  That Gulf design has been around for a long time, so Toulon is supposed to be original just because he incorporated it into a putter/cover before Scotty did?  I'd agree with whoever said this was probably a lazy idea for Scotty, but if you want to call Scotty out for copying, geez, don't pick out something that wasn't very original to begin with.

For me it’s another notch in the belt of the arrogance that Callaway/Odysey and now toulon demonstrates on social media that pushes me further away from the brand. Titleist gets/has a rep for being elitist and numerous other synonyms but the group at Callaway exemplifies it constantly on social

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#59 PALS-SSA

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:22 AM

Wait a minute.  Scotty copied somebody?

Gee, I'm SHOCKED!

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#60 Golfer4Life

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:38 AM

 pgagreg1, on 03 December 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

They say all publicity is good. Good for Sean and good for Scotty.
People have been hating on Scotty for a long time and he just keeps rolling along.
I guess he doesn't need any internet trolls approval to do what he does.

Oh yes, the good ol' internet troll argument.  Nice try and very classy commentary.

Cameron gets the comments he gets because of his own doing.

Edited by Golfer4Life, 03 December 2018 - 11:39 AM.

PXG Derangement Syndrome, it is real.......

Equipment:

A bag full of PXG’s
Non Titleist Welded Neck 35/330g SC 009

“Check your Ego at the Club House and Play the Correct Tees”

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