Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

* * * - - 2 votes

So will Tiger call a penalty on himself at his OWN TOURNAMENT?


356 replies to this topic

#271 I_HATE_SNOW

I_HATE_SNOW

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,053 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 47459
  • Joined: 01/29/2008
  • Location:Colorado
GolfWRX Likes : 437

Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:12 PM

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

 BrockPSU, on 06 December 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

So if a dude robs a bank and you can only see it from one camera angle then the person should be innocent because the other 3 show that nothing happened? Did Tiger ever comment on the shot on what happened?  I don't think Tiger should have taken a penalty if he knows that it didn't happen, however who are we to say that he did or didn't.
Mo-this shot is the exact reason the HD rule was put in place. In slo mp it appears to be scraped/pushed. In full speed it does not. You can see video of a full driver shot and slowed down a ton can see the ball compressed and stays on the face. Is that scraped?
Are you saying he compressed the ball with that little shove?


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#272 Finbarr Saunders

Finbarr Saunders

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,019 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 138955
  • Joined: 09/11/2011
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Handicap:5.6
GolfWRX Likes : 340

Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:33 PM

Is tiger the Pete Rose of golf

2

#273 Vindog

Vindog

    Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,177 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 131959
  • Joined: 06/29/2011
  • Location:Maine, the final frontier
GolfWRX Likes : 7271

Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:25 PM

 Finbarr Saunders, on 06 December 2018 - 05:33 PM, said:

Is tiger the Pete Rose of golf

Here's my Pete Rose story:

Last year we ran into Peter Rose in Las Vegas and he let my friend get a pic for his 50th birthday.  After the picture Pete said "50th huh?  Congratulations.  Now you're almost dead."  We were all "Whattha hell?"

I could tooooooootally see Tiger saying that so maybe you are right!  Also depends on which "hustle" they mean by "Charlie Hustle"












Was that good enough?

Edited by Vindog, 06 December 2018 - 06:25 PM.

run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

3

#274 bscinstnct

bscinstnct

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,052 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 77664
  • Joined: 03/17/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 19648

Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:33 PM

 Vindog, on 06 December 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

 Finbarr Saunders, on 06 December 2018 - 05:33 PM, said:

Is tiger the Pete Rose of golf

Here's my Pete Rose story:

Last year we ran into Peter Rose in Las Vegas and he let my friend get a pic for his 50th birthday.  After the picture Pete said "50th huh?  Congratulations.  Now you're almost dead."  We were all "Whattha hell?"

I could tooooooootally see Tiger saying that so maybe you are right!  Also depends on which "hustle" they mean by "Charlie Hustle"












Was that good enough?

PR bellyflop be like,



Id pay to see TW do that!

Edited by bscinstnct, 06 December 2018 - 06:33 PM.


4

#275 lowheel

lowheel

    LOWHEEL

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,952 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 193008
  • Joined: 07/18/2012
GolfWRX Likes : 5469

Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:47 PM

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

 BrockPSU, on 06 December 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

So if a dude robs a bank and you can only see it from one camera angle then the person should be innocent because the other 3 show that nothing happened? Did Tiger ever comment on the shot on what happened?  I don't think Tiger should have taken a penalty if he knows that it didn't happen, however who are we to say that he did or didn't.
Mo-this shot is the exact reason the HD rule was put in place. In slo mp it appears to be scraped/pushed. In full speed it does not. You can see video of a full driver shot and slowed down a ton can see the ball compressed and stays on the face. Is that scraped?

Dont pull a muscle with that reach...


5

#276 leftyDH04

leftyDH04

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 477 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 514716
  • Joined: 10/19/2018
GolfWRX Likes : 302

Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:42 PM

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

Patently untrue.

I was watching the tournament live when he attempted this shot.  I was talking to a friend and we both agreed that we were shocked he was even trying it, knowing in all likelihood it was going to result in a double hit.  In real time, after he practiced his tiny back swing, it seemed entirely relevant that he would not in fact execute a "legal stroke."

I honestly think this was not that much unlike Phil running down the hill and hitting his moving ball.  These guys know the rules and push the edge of what is legal.  100% he was over the line and this was an illegal stroke.  Too bad the GOAT blinders were on at his tournament.  Considering it happened in 2018, he double hit the ball, the player should have been penalized.  But, if he claims it wasn't a double hit it's pretty much irrefutable.

6

#277 bscinstnct

bscinstnct

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,052 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 77664
  • Joined: 03/17/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 19648

Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:49 PM

 leftyDH04, on 06 December 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

Patently untrue.

I was watching the tournament live when he attempted this shot.  I was talking to a friend and we both agreed that we were shocked he was even trying it, knowing in all likelihood it was going to result in a double hit.  In real time, after he practiced his tiny back swing, it seemed entirely relevant that he would not in fact execute a "legal stroke."

I honestly think this was not that much unlike Phil running down the hill and hitting his moving ball.  These guys know the rules and push the edge of what is legal.  100% he was over the line and this was an illegal stroke.  Too bad the GOAT blinders were on at his tournament.  Considering it happened in 2018, he double hit the ball, the player should have been penalized.  But, if he claims it wasn't a double hit it's pretty much irrefutable.

I agree 100%

That TW is GOAT

; )

7

#278 Shilgy

Shilgy

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,521 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 235237
  • Joined: 03/07/2013
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Handicap:3.1
GolfWRX Likes : 7121

Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:43 PM

 lowheel, on 06 December 2018 - 06:47 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

 BrockPSU, on 06 December 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

So if a dude robs a bank and you can only see it from one camera angle then the person should be innocent because the other 3 show that nothing happened? Did Tiger ever comment on the shot on what happened?  I don't think Tiger should have taken a penalty if he knows that it didn't happen, however who are we to say that he did or didn't.
Mo-this shot is the exact reason the HD rule was put in place. In slo mp it appears to be scraped/pushed. In full speed it does not. You can see video of a full driver shot and slowed down a ton can see the ball compressed and stays on the face. Is that scraped?

Dont pull a muscle with that reach...
Do tell. Why do you think they instituted the HD rule if not to prevent instances where slomo video showed what could not be seen with the naked eye?
Sure, my last was a stretch but it is a version of the same.

Edited by Shilgy, 06 December 2018 - 10:44 PM.

TM M3 440 10* Graphite Design AD IZ 6x
TM M1 3w 14*  Graphite Design BB7s
TM M2  5w 18* Fujikura Atmos TS Blue 8S or Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-AW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Titleist Vokey 54*F  58*S
Toulon Garage Rochester flow neck H5/ Toulon Rochester stock

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

8

#279 Swisstrader98

Swisstrader98

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,852 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 170802
  • Joined: 03/23/2012
GolfWRX Likes : 1173

Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:43 AM

I read through a bunch of posts here and to be honest, still unsure of things. Is the issue a matter of double hit or not or is this a question of scooping or not.

I personally don’t see a double hit but I definitely see some scooping going on here.

9

#280 Vindog

Vindog

    Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,177 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 131959
  • Joined: 06/29/2011
  • Location:Maine, the final frontier
GolfWRX Likes : 7271

Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:19 AM

 Swisstrader98, on 07 December 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

I read through a bunch of posts here and to be honest, still unsure of things. Is the issue a matter of double hit or not or is this a question of scooping or not.

I personally don't see a double hit but I definitely see some scooping going on here.

Honestly, I'm with you.  Not sure why the double hit is focused on, when there should/could be a penalty via Dec 14-1a4.

run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#281 baudi

baudi

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 586 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 27886
  • Joined: 04/15/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 190

Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:20 AM

 Swisstrader98, on 07 December 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

I read through a bunch of posts here and to be honest, still unsure of things. Is the issue a matter of double hit or not or is this a question of scooping or not.

I personally don't see a double hit but I definitely see some scooping going on here.

indeed. Many did. Even without hi speed cams from an opposite angle.
But Mr Russell cs. did not see a scoop nor a push.
To me it feels like he virtually accepted a new legal type of shot for 2019 since the new rules will allow an accidental/incidental hit.
With only 0.75 inch of back swing and a flick of the wrists you are safe.

Not me though. I tried it 50 times from 2 inches and every single time I had a double hit every single time.
With my gained knowledge about my own game (read: high probability in lack of skill) this shot performed by me should be judged as a breach of the new rule.

Edited by baudi, 07 December 2018 - 08:22 AM.


11

#282 Ignatius Reilly

Ignatius Reilly

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 454100
  • Joined: 02/04/2017
  • Location:Toronto
  • Handicap:14
GolfWRX Likes : 250

Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:18 AM

One problem I have with it is that the ball is still in the sand for the duration of the stroke.  

If it had been under a bush and there was a harder surface, a little pop stroke could have made the ball jump clear of the clubhead.  When I look at the video, the ball is dragging in the sand, resulting in a scoop or a scrape.

I thought when there was uncertainty like this, it should be resolved against the player.

Like some others, I also think TW missed a big opportunity to do the "right" thing.  Just because you don't have to call it once you see it in slo mo doesn't mean you can't call it on yourself.  Ended up saving him a stroke, which meant he would come in 17th in an 18-man field.  Big deal, that.

I sure don't see this as adding to his legacy either through the action taken, or the tournament result.

If he'd called himself on it, he would have joined the short list of golfers who had done it, starting with Bobby Jones, and carrying on through Brian Davis, Justin Rose, James Hahn....

Had the review happened AFTER he'd signed his card, I'd be fine with it.  IMO that was the intent of the new slo-mo/HD rule, you shouldn't get DQ'd for signing a wrong card.  Tiger had the opportunity to review his shot before signing, and said he saw the double hit.

Edited by Ignatius Reilly, 07 December 2018 - 08:30 AM.


12

#283 bscinstnct

bscinstnct

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,052 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 77664
  • Joined: 03/17/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 19648

Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:46 AM

So TW worked the rules to his advantage a little?

Big deal. Everybody does.

Is like when you go to Chipotle and take 30 napkins ; )

Posted Image

Edited by bscinstnct, 07 December 2018 - 09:49 AM.


13

#284 leftyDH04

leftyDH04

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 477 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 514716
  • Joined: 10/19/2018
GolfWRX Likes : 302

Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:24 PM

 Vindog, on 07 December 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

 Swisstrader98, on 07 December 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

I read through a bunch of posts here and to be honest, still unsure of things. Is the issue a matter of double hit or not or is this a question of scooping or not.

I personally don't see a double hit but I definitely see some scooping going on here.

Honestly, I'm with you.  Not sure why the double hit is focused on, when there should/could be a penalty via Dec 14-1a4.

It's just the way the Rules officials approached it at the tournament.  It's all so weird.  They checked the footage, saw the double hit, but then cannot punish him because he reports that he did not feel the double hit.

Seems they could have checked the footage, decided it was a scoop, due to the short back swing and ensuing double hit, dinged him with the penalty and justice would have been served.  They didn't need any HD video to determine it was a scoop.  What if they determine it using SD video?  :)

14

#285 sui generis

sui generis

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,516 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132389
  • Joined: 07/05/2011
  • Location:Asheville
GolfWRX Likes : 2378

Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:32 PM

Can we get our terms in order? "Scoop" is not part of the 2018 Rules; "spoon" is, but nobody outside the UK knows what that means in reference to golf. :)

Here's what we are faced with in 2019:

I10.1a/1 – Examples of Pushing, Scraping or Scooping

These terms have overlapping meanings but can be defined through these three examples of using the club in a manner not allowed by the Rule:

A player holes a short putt by striking the ball with the bottom of the clubhead, using a motion similar to that used in making a shot in billiards or shuffleboard. Moving the ball like this is a push.

A player moves the club along the surface of the ground pulling it towards him or her. Moving the ball like this is a scrape.

A player slides a club beneath and very close to the ball. The player then lifts and moves the ball by use of a forward and upward motion. Moving the ball like this is a scoop.

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

15

#286 bscinstnct

bscinstnct

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,052 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 77664
  • Joined: 03/17/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 19648

Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:39 PM

 leftyDH04, on 07 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

 Vindog, on 07 December 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

 Swisstrader98, on 07 December 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

I read through a bunch of posts here and to be honest, still unsure of things. Is the issue a matter of double hit or not or is this a question of scooping or not.

I personally don't see a double hit but I definitely see some scooping going on here.

Honestly, I'm with you.  Not sure why the double hit is focused on, when there should/could be a penalty via Dec 14-1a4.

It's just the way the Rules officials approached it at the tournament.  It's all so weird.  They checked the footage, saw the double hit, but then cannot punish him because he reports that he did not feel the double hit.

Seems they could have checked the footage, decided it was a scoop, due to the short back swing and ensuing double hit, dinged him with the penalty and justice would have been served.  They didn't need any HD video to determine it was a scoop.  What if they determine it using SD video?  :)

"Looking at it in regular speed on a high-definition television, you couldn't tell that at all. But when you slow it down, you could see where the ball did stay on the clubface quite a bit of time and it looked like he might have hit it twice. But there's no way he could tell that."

http://www.espn.com/...-avoids-penalty

16

#287 straightshot7

straightshot7

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,741 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 66294
  • Joined: 09/23/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 2660

Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:56 PM

 leftyDH04, on 06 December 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

Patently untrue.

I was watching the tournament live when he attempted this shot.  I was talking to a friend and we both agreed that we were shocked he was even trying it, knowing in all likelihood it was going to result in a double hit.  In real time, after he practiced his tiny back swing, it seemed entirely relevant that he would not in fact execute a "legal stroke."

I honestly think this was not that much unlike Phil running down the hill and hitting his moving ball.  These guys know the rules and push the edge of what is legal.  100% he was over the line and this was an illegal stroke.  Too bad the GOAT blinders were on at his tournament.  Considering it happened in 2018, he double hit the ball, the player should have been penalized.  But, if he claims it wasn't a double hit it's pretty much irrefutable.

How could you make that determination watching on television and not actually examining the lie, etc. in person?

Should guys not play shots from hazards because there's a possibility they will accidentally ground their club?

Sorry but you're in no position to tell a PGA Tour player what shot they should or should not attempt, based on the possibility of breaking a rule. From your couch.

Could you see a double hit with the naked eye in real time?

If you think Tiger is lying when he says he felt that he played a legal shot (at the time he hit it), then take it up with him or show us some evidence that he's lying. The rules officials were a lot closer to the situation than you and they deemed it no penalty.

17

#288 leftyDH04

leftyDH04

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 477 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 514716
  • Joined: 10/19/2018
GolfWRX Likes : 302

Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:08 PM

 straightshot7, on 07 December 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

 leftyDH04, on 06 December 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

Patently untrue.

I was watching the tournament live when he attempted this shot.  I was talking to a friend and we both agreed that we were shocked he was even trying it, knowing in all likelihood it was going to result in a double hit.  In real time, after he practiced his tiny back swing, it seemed entirely relevant that he would not in fact execute a "legal stroke."

I honestly think this was not that much unlike Phil running down the hill and hitting his moving ball.  These guys know the rules and push the edge of what is legal.  100% he was over the line and this was an illegal stroke.  Too bad the GOAT blinders were on at his tournament.  Considering it happened in 2018, he double hit the ball, the player should have been penalized.  But, if he claims it wasn't a double hit it's pretty much irrefutable.

How could you make that determination watching on television and not actually examining the lie, etc. in person?

Should guys not play shots from hazards because there's a possibility they will accidentally ground their club?

Sorry but you're in no position to tell a PGA Tour player what shot they should or should not attempt, based on the possibility of breaking a rule. From your couch.

Could you see a double hit with the naked eye in real time?

If you think Tiger is lying when he says he felt that he played a legal shot (at the time he hit it), then take it up with him or show us some evidence that he's lying. The rules officials were a lot closer to the situation than you and they deemed it no penalty.

Even Tiger Woods can't take a club back 2 inches in a particularly special way.  Go out and try it.  There was no way the sandy lie was going to help.

In real time, it looked like a scoop.  Absolutely.  Read the rule again...

If you make anything other than clean normal contact it's not a legal stroke.  Directly from the Royal and Ancient 14-1a/4

If a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the clubhead and the ball or whatever intervenes between the clubhead and the ball.

https://www.randa.or...al#alldecisions

Sorry not sorry.  I've been a fan of Tiger since I saw him win his second Masters in Augusta.  But, I don't let being a fan boy get in my way of knowing what I saw.  The argument that the rules officials were so "close" to the situation that they couldn't have got it wrong is laughable.

18

#289 bscinstnct

bscinstnct

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,052 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 77664
  • Joined: 03/17/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 19648

Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:27 PM

 leftyDH04, on 07 December 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

 straightshot7, on 07 December 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

 leftyDH04, on 06 December 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

Patently untrue.

I was watching the tournament live when he attempted this shot.  I was talking to a friend and we both agreed that we were shocked he was even trying it, knowing in all likelihood it was going to result in a double hit.  In real time, after he practiced his tiny back swing, it seemed entirely relevant that he would not in fact execute a "legal stroke."

I honestly think this was not that much unlike Phil running down the hill and hitting his moving ball.  These guys know the rules and push the edge of what is legal.  100% he was over the line and this was an illegal stroke.  Too bad the GOAT blinders were on at his tournament.  Considering it happened in 2018, he double hit the ball, the player should have been penalized.  But, if he claims it wasn't a double hit it's pretty much irrefutable.

How could you make that determination watching on television and not actually examining the lie, etc. in person?

Should guys not play shots from hazards because there's a possibility they will accidentally ground their club?

Sorry but you're in no position to tell a PGA Tour player what shot they should or should not attempt, based on the possibility of breaking a rule. From your couch.

Could you see a double hit with the naked eye in real time?

If you think Tiger is lying when he says he felt that he played a legal shot (at the time he hit it), then take it up with him or show us some evidence that he's lying. The rules officials were a lot closer to the situation than you and they deemed it no penalty.

Even Tiger Woods can't take a club back 2 inches in a particularly special way.  Go out and try it.  There was no way the sandy lie was going to help.

In real time, it looked like a scoop.  Absolutely.  Read the rule again...

If you make anything other than clean normal contact it's not a legal stroke.  Directly from the Royal and Ancient 14-1a/4

If a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the clubhead and the ball or whatever intervenes between the clubhead and the ball.

https://www.randa.or...al#alldecisions

Sorry not sorry.  I've been a fan of Tiger since I saw him win his second Masters in Augusta.  But, I don't let being a fan boy get in my way of knowing what I saw.  The argument that the rules officials were so "close" to the situation that they couldn't have got it wrong is laughable.

So, when the official says,

"Looking at it in regular speed on a high-definition television, you couldn't tell that at all. But when you slow it down, you could see where the ball did stay on the clubface quite a bit of time and it looked like he might have hit it twice. But there's no way he could tell that."

http://www.espn.com/...-avoids-penalty


you think they are lying for Tiger and would have given someone else a penalty?

He is very clear on what he thinks so I'm wondering if you think he is either incompetent or a liar? Or something else.

Just curious ; )

19

#290 straightshot7

straightshot7

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,741 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 66294
  • Joined: 09/23/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 2660

Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:38 PM

 leftyDH04, on 07 December 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

 straightshot7, on 07 December 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

 leftyDH04, on 06 December 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

Patently untrue.

I was watching the tournament live when he attempted this shot.  I was talking to a friend and we both agreed that we were shocked he was even trying it, knowing in all likelihood it was going to result in a double hit.  In real time, after he practiced his tiny back swing, it seemed entirely relevant that he would not in fact execute a "legal stroke."

I honestly think this was not that much unlike Phil running down the hill and hitting his moving ball.  These guys know the rules and push the edge of what is legal.  100% he was over the line and this was an illegal stroke.  Too bad the GOAT blinders were on at his tournament.  Considering it happened in 2018, he double hit the ball, the player should have been penalized.  But, if he claims it wasn't a double hit it's pretty much irrefutable.

How could you make that determination watching on television and not actually examining the lie, etc. in person?

Should guys not play shots from hazards because there's a possibility they will accidentally ground their club?

Sorry but you're in no position to tell a PGA Tour player what shot they should or should not attempt, based on the possibility of breaking a rule. From your couch.

Could you see a double hit with the naked eye in real time?

If you think Tiger is lying when he says he felt that he played a legal shot (at the time he hit it), then take it up with him or show us some evidence that he's lying. The rules officials were a lot closer to the situation than you and they deemed it no penalty.

Even Tiger Woods can't take a club back 2 inches in a particularly special way.  Go out and try it.  There was no way the sandy lie was going to help.

In real time, it looked like a scoop.  Absolutely.  Read the rule again...

If you make anything other than clean normal contact it's not a legal stroke.  Directly from the Royal and Ancient 14-1a/4

If a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the clubhead and the ball or whatever intervenes between the clubhead and the ball.

https://www.randa.or...al#alldecisions

Sorry not sorry.  I've been a fan of Tiger since I saw him win his second Masters in Augusta.  But, I don't let being a fan boy get in my way of knowing what I saw.  The argument that the rules officials were so "close" to the situation that they couldn't have got it wrong is laughable.

I never said they "couldn't have got it wrong".

But the idea that you got it right from watching on TV and they didn't (when it's what they do for a living and were the only ones who had a discussion with Tiger about it), is what's laughable.

You're just making stuff up. Where did you derive a 2 inch backswing? Have any photos to show this?

Feherty called it a 6 inch backswing but I'm not sure it was ever visible on TV.

Do you really not think you can strike a ball legally with a short backswing? What do you call a putt?

I can legally strike a ball with a 1 millimeter backswing. The ball might only go an inch but it's a legal stroke.

What you think you saw doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. We've got 1,000 other people saying they didn't see a "scoop" in real time. So where does that leave us?

At the end of the day we're supposed to trust the player to be honest and the rules officials to do their job. And all of the evidence suggests that's what happened.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#291 Pleasedwith3putts

Pleasedwith3putts

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14749
  • Joined: 05/13/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 350

Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:57 PM

 straightshot7, on 07 December 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I can legally strike a ball with a 1 millimeter backswing. The ball might only go an inch but it's a legal stroke.

How long a backswing do you think you need to hit it 15ft legally out of a bush?

21

#292 straightshot7

straightshot7

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,741 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 66294
  • Joined: 09/23/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 2660

Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:15 PM

 Pleasedwith3putts, on 07 December 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

 straightshot7, on 07 December 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I can legally strike a ball with a 1 millimeter backswing. The ball might only go an inch but it's a legal stroke.

How long a backswing do you think you need to hit it 15ft legally out of a bush?

Are you referring specifically to the lie that Tiger had?



If you watch this video it seems like Tiger has room to waggle his clubhead and move it freely behind the ball in a 6+ inch area. I don't think it's unreasonable if he thought, "When I make the actual stroke I should be able to force the club back at least a foot or so and hit the ball out".

I think I would personally need about 1.5 foot backswing to advance it around 15 feet. But I'm obviously just guesstimating. I can't make a judgment about this exact shot unless I was there and had a first person view from Tiger's angle. None of us can see from the video exactly how much room he had behind the ball to swing the club back.

But that ball is lying cleanly and there is at least some room to make a small backswing. I wouldn't want to take an unplayable with the ball lying cleanly like that.

In hindsight, I think he should have moved the crowd, and just addressed the ball normally with like 6 iron and just taken a huge full swing lash at it.

Edited by straightshot7, 07 December 2018 - 03:16 PM.


22

#293 Pleasedwith3putts

Pleasedwith3putts

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14749
  • Joined: 05/13/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 350

Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM

This is the lie he had so not clean and the second image was where he started his backswing from so anything between 4 and 6" max.

That's the issue for me, the chances of pulling off a legitimate clean stroke moving the ball that far from that lie with such a short swing are just negligible. I get that a ruling was made in his favour and that's that, for me he got away with one as the shot didn't look on and it looked bad in real time from the front angle I was watching. It is what it is now, I just respond here when guys suggest it wasn't a foul strike, even he accepts it was but it gets overturned by the officials opinion of real time vs slo-mo so it's a no penalty foul strike.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Tiger7.png
  • Tiger 8.png


23

#294 dropkicked

dropkicked

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 515544
  • Joined: 11/01/2018
  • Location:6ix
  • Handicap:High
GolfWRX Likes : 86

Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:32 PM

 leftyDH04, on 07 December 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:


Even Tiger Woods can't take a club back 2 inches in a particularly special way.  Go out and try it.

Hey Pro, Tiger has 80 tour wins with 14 major titles. What's your tour total?

24

#295 straightshot7

straightshot7

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,741 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 66294
  • Joined: 09/23/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 2660

Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:32 PM

 Pleasedwith3putts, on 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is the lie he had so not clean and the second image was where he started his backswing from so anything between 4 and 6" max.

That's the issue for me, the chances of pulling off a legitimate clean stroke moving the ball that far from that lie with such a short swing are just negligible. I get that a ruling was made in his favour and that's that, for me he got away with one as the shot didn't look on and it looked bad in real time from the front angle I was watching. It is what it is now, I just respond here when guys suggest it wasn't a foul strike, even he accepts it was but it gets overturned by the officials opinion of real time vs slo-mo so it's a no penalty foul strike.

Yeah it just seems to me that no one can exactly determine what the odds were of "pulling off a legitimate clean stroke".

You say negligible. Okay. What % would you say? What if Tiger felt there was a 40% chance he would make a clean strike? Should he not attempt it?

What if he didn't even consider the possibility and just felt 100% confident he could strike it cleanly? How can we possibly know?

What we know for sure is that Tiger said "First of all, I didn't feel like I violated any rules. I felt like I was trying to play a shot. But the rules committee pulled me aside and said 'Hey, there may be a violation there' so we took a look at it," Woods told Golf Channel's Steve Sands. "I didn't feel like I hit it twice, it happened so fast and it was such a short motion, but under high def and super slow-mo, you can see it. I made contact twice, but there was no, they'll explain it to you. There is no violation, I guess, so I shot what I shot today."

So I don't see why people keep re-hashing it.

I've said it before, if you think Tiger lied then okay. Just say that. And do you have any evidence that he lied? Besides that, I don't see what argument people can make. Everything else people are saying is just noise and nothing to do with the actual rules.  

Honestly I guarantee if we looked at all of our rounds in slow-mo we would find rules violations. And we'd be genuinely shocked and say we didn't realize it at the time. When you're caught up in a round and playing shots, that's a totally different perspective than watching it later in slow-mo.

It's not fair to project our perspective onto Tiger and draw an apples to apples comparison. His vantage point, in the moment, is very different than the one we have.


25

#296 lowheel

lowheel

    LOWHEEL

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,952 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 193008
  • Joined: 07/18/2012
GolfWRX Likes : 5469

Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:36 PM

 bscinstnct, on 07 December 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

So TW worked the rules to his advantage a little?

Big deal. Everybody does.

Is like when you go to Chipotle and take 30 napkins ; )

Posted Image

Posted Image

 dropkicked, on 07 December 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

 leftyDH04, on 07 December 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Even Tiger Woods can't take a club back 2 inches in a particularly special way.  Go out and try it.

Hey Pro, Tiger has 80 tour wins with 14 major titles. What's your tour total?

you sure showed him...

Edited by lowheel, 07 December 2018 - 04:36 PM.


26

#297 nbg352

nbg352

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,295 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 144021
  • Joined: 10/25/2011
  • Location:Ontario Golden Horseshoe
  • Handicap:8.6
GolfWRX Likes : 4010

Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:47 PM

 Dpavs, on 06 December 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

 nbg352, on 06 December 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

Tiger didn't "scoop" or "push" or "drag". Officials said he made a proper though abbreviated stroke. So, why are we even discussing anything other than the legal stroke that was initially made?

Because the decision was questionable at best? Of course their decision stands but we can second guess that decision all we want right?
The day you are as qualified as those officials, sure......second guess all you want.

Edited by nbg352, 07 December 2018 - 04:48 PM.

R11S 8* square; Stock stiff
Maltby  KE4  14* 3w , Axe Excaliber  R flex tipped 1"
RBZ 25* hb; RBZstage 2 19* hb
   Mizuno MP30  5 - PW, AXE Excaliber stiff, Hogan Apex PC E Wedge (50*) TT DG s300
GM Never Compromise GM2 putter
54*, 58* TM TP wedges 3* flat

27

#298 nbg352

nbg352

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,295 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 144021
  • Joined: 10/25/2011
  • Location:Ontario Golden Horseshoe
  • Handicap:8.6
GolfWRX Likes : 4010

Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:54 PM

 leftyDH04, on 07 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

 Vindog, on 07 December 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

 Swisstrader98, on 07 December 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

I read through a bunch of posts here and to be honest, still unsure of things. Is the issue a matter of double hit or not or is this a question of scooping or not.

I personally don't see a double hit but I definitely see some scooping going on here.

Honestly, I'm with you.  Not sure why the double hit is focused on, when there should/could be a penalty via Dec 14-1a4.

It's just the way the Rules officials approached it at the tournament.  It's all so weird.  They checked the footage, saw the double hit, but then cannot punish him because he reports that he did not feel the double hit.

Seems they could have checked the footage, decided it was a scoop, due to the short back swing and ensuing double hit, dinged him with the penalty and justice would have been served.  They didn't need any HD video to determine it was a scoop.  What if they determine it using SD video?  :)
They DID check the footage. It's how they came to the decision that they did.
R11S 8* square; Stock stiff
Maltby  KE4  14* 3w , Axe Excaliber  R flex tipped 1"
RBZ 25* hb; RBZstage 2 19* hb
   Mizuno MP30  5 - PW, AXE Excaliber stiff, Hogan Apex PC E Wedge (50*) TT DG s300
GM Never Compromise GM2 putter
54*, 58* TM TP wedges 3* flat

28

#299 nbg352

nbg352

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,295 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 144021
  • Joined: 10/25/2011
  • Location:Ontario Golden Horseshoe
  • Handicap:8.6
GolfWRX Likes : 4010

Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:00 PM

 I_HATE_SNOW, on 06 December 2018 - 05:12 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

 BrockPSU, on 06 December 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 06 December 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 baudi, on 06 December 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

All water under bridge. but I tried Tigers shot about 50 times with ±2 inches backswing. Granted I am not as good as Tiger :-)  but there is no chance you can hit the ball and create immediate contact and release with out touching the ball twice. Ball moves too slow.Only a pop stroke or a stab works but then the ball does not go far.

Now there is a ruling which states a strike with .5 inch backstroke is considered to be a push. If the 0,5 inch is a hard condition the rule authorities should reconsider the complete case.
Btw i do not think the Tiger cheated or anything like that but imho he should have taken the penalty stroke. Only to prove his moral authority. If Tiger wants to win in capitals, this was his opportunity.
Just to be clear....there was no crime committed but he should plead guilty anyways? Just to be a moral authority?

The odd thing in this case is that if they would not have shown the slomo front angle at all there would be absolutely no  outrage on this shot at all.  Full speed from the other angles there have been no complaints about the shot.

So if a dude robs a bank and you can only see it from one camera angle then the person should be innocent because the other 3 show that nothing happened? Did Tiger ever comment on the shot on what happened?  I don't think Tiger should have taken a penalty if he knows that it didn't happen, however who are we to say that he did or didn't.
Mo-this shot is the exact reason the HD rule was put in place. In slo mp it appears to be scraped/pushed. In full speed it does not. You can see video of a full driver shot and slowed down a ton can see the ball compressed and stays on the face. Is that scraped?
Are you saying he compressed the ball with that little shove?
Do you really think that is what he's saying? I don't.
R11S 8* square; Stock stiff
Maltby  KE4  14* 3w , Axe Excaliber  R flex tipped 1"
RBZ 25* hb; RBZstage 2 19* hb
   Mizuno MP30  5 - PW, AXE Excaliber stiff, Hogan Apex PC E Wedge (50*) TT DG s300
GM Never Compromise GM2 putter
54*, 58* TM TP wedges 3* flat

29

#300 Pleasedwith3putts

Pleasedwith3putts

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14749
  • Joined: 05/13/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 350

Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:02 PM

 straightshot7, on 07 December 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

 Pleasedwith3putts, on 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is the lie he had so not clean and the second image was where he started his backswing from so anything between 4 and 6" max.

That's the issue for me, the chances of pulling off a legitimate clean stroke moving the ball that far from that lie with such a short swing are just negligible. I get that a ruling was made in his favour and that's that, for me he got away with one as the shot didn't look on and it looked bad in real time from the front angle I was watching. It is what it is now, I just respond here when guys suggest it wasn't a foul strike, even he accepts it was but it gets overturned by the officials opinion of real time vs slo-mo so it's a no penalty foul strike.

Yeah it just seems to me that no one can exactly determine what the odds were of "pulling off a legitimate clean stroke".

You say negligible. Okay. What % would you say? What if Tiger felt there was a 40% chance he would make a clean strike? Should he not attempt it?

What if he didn't even consider the possibility and just felt 100% confident he could strike it cleanly? How can we possibly know?

What we know for sure is that Tiger said "First of all, I didn't feel like I violated any rules. I felt like I was trying to play a shot. But the rules committee pulled me aside and said 'Hey, there may be a violation there' so we took a look at it," Woods told Golf Channel's Steve Sands. "I didn't feel like I hit it twice, it happened so fast and it was such a short motion, but under high def and super slow-mo, you can see it. I made contact twice, but there was no, they'll explain it to you. There is no violation, I guess, so I shot what I shot today."

So I don't see why people keep re-hashing it.

I've said it before, if you think Tiger lied then okay. Just say that. And do you have any evidence that he lied? Besides that, I don't see what argument people can make. Everything else people are saying is just noise and nothing to do with the actual rules.  

Honestly I guarantee if we looked at all of our rounds in slow-mo we would find rules violations. And we'd be genuinely shocked and say we didn't realize it at the time. When you're caught up in a round and playing shots, that's a totally different perspective than watching it later in slow-mo.

It's not fair to project our perspective onto Tiger and draw an apples to apples comparison. His vantage point, in the moment, is very different than the one we have.

My view (again) FWIW

I rate his (or anyone elses) chances at less than 5% to move the ball as far as he did with a genuinely clean strike with that length backswing and all other factors the same.
If I was rating the chances of moving it no more than say 6ft then I'd be at maybe 35- 50% using a stabbbing stroke but the fact that he chose to play it rather than take a two club length drop (my 6ft) means he had to have been trying to move it materially more than 6ft otherwise why not just take the drop risk free?
I believe him when he says he didn't feel a double strike as I don't think it was a double strike but a scoop so would not have felt two strikes
Did it feel like a scoop then? - only he knows for sure but it may well have felt a strange contact given how long the ball stayed on the club, or the frond may have masked the whole contact
I have no idea why he took that shot on, a drop or a play forwards looked more obvious
Equally who knows why golfers take shots on at times. I've nothing to suggest he didn't think he could pull it off in the heat of the moment and deliberately hit a foul ball but lets just say if I was LaCava and he was looking at that shot in a major I would have done my best to call him off.

We can all debate this and without TW going back with a bag of balls we'll never know what the correct % is. But DO have try just for curiosities sake at moving a ball 15ft out of the edge of semi-rough (or anywhere that restricts clean impact and has some resistance ahead of the ball) off your knees and see how you get on with a 4" backswing. I don't care if you are GOAT or club hacker, it's crazy difficult to do so cleanly.

Edited by Pleasedwith3putts, 07 December 2018 - 05:04 PM.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

30



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors