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Rick Shiels - Wilson Staff Cortex Review


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#151 radiman

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:35 PM

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

Lol.  Did you start drinking early today?

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#152 dommer

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:40 PM

 GoGoErky, on 05 December 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Wonder if he has something with Wilson where he does it at/after pga show to help build buzz again about the driver once everyone else’s releases are out

Makes sense
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#153 uscgolfguy

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:41 PM

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

"WAS"...

Wilson has a LOOOOONNNNGGG way to go and have acknowledge the fact that they had all but abandoned the mid-high end golf market segment.  They certainly are "trying" but they do not have the horsepower to take the golf "only" focused companies on head-to-head.  They are "trying", but how and why would anyone want to give their product a chance, when their perception in the market place is one of low "Wal-Mart-esque" quality?  This is not an opinion, but has been documented in many news articles over the years going all the way back to the early 90's and even 80's.

Their BIGGEST challenge is trying to figure out how to change their "brand perception".  They need brand ambassadors that can support their products with today's stas (i.e Trackman data, etc.), but more importantly WINS.  Everybody loves a WINNER, nobody likes a loser; until they can prove that they are a winner and can "beat" the "elite guys" (depends what you consider this to be...could be Callaway Driver - product or it could be Tiger Woods - person) at their own game...they will always be looked at as below standard.

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#154 GoGoErky

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:37 PM

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

Not even close. I can get a just as good product or better at cheaper price. I donít care what company has a driver, it will go in my bag if itís better than what I have. Tried d200 and f5 both sucked

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#155 getitdaily

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:41 PM

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

Who knew Tim Clarke posted on WRX...


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#156 boggyman

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:06 PM

 GoGoErky, on 05 December 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

Not even close. I can get a just as good product or better at cheaper price. I donít care what company has a driver, it will go in my bag if itís better than what I have. Tried d200 and f5 both sucked
Iíll agree that for me, the d200 stunk. Itís the only driver since the d100 that WILSON STAFF has had out I havenít played. The F5 was far from junk!!

Edited by boggyman, 05 December 2018 - 09:17 PM.


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#157 boggyman

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:16 PM

 uscgolfguy, on 05 December 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

"WAS"...

Wilson has a LOOOOONNNNGGG way to go and have acknowledge the fact that they had all but abandoned the mid-high end golf market segment.  They certainly are "trying" but they do not have the horsepower to take the golf "only" focused companies on head-to-head.  They are "trying", but how and why would anyone want to give their product a chance, when their perception in the market place is one of low "Wal-Mart-esque" quality?  This is not an opinion, but has been documented in many news articles over the years going all the way back to the early 90's and even 80's.

Their BIGGEST challenge is trying to figure out how to change their "brand perception".  They need brand ambassadors that can support their products with today's stas (i.e Trackman data, etc.), but more importantly WINS.  Everybody loves a WINNER, nobody likes a loser; until they can prove that they are a winner and can "beat" the "elite guys" (depends what you consider this to be...could be Callaway Driver - product or it could be Tiger Woods - person) at their own game...they will always be looked at as below standard.
Good post and some great points. The more I follow this thread the more Iím getting a sour taste fir Callaway. Sorry to jack tgectheead. But IF, and it is and will be hard to get the Walmart esque label off their shoulder. What I like most about W/S is they make great products that are not pushed with the idea of a blind consumer gaining 17 more yards, blah blah blah, you get my drift, false claims. After all, theyíve been around now 100 plus years. Who else can lay claim to that. Again, youíve made some great points in your post.

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#158 boggyman

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:18 PM

 getitdaily, on 05 December 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

Who knew Tim Clarke posted on WRX...
RAT is not Tim, that I do know.

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#159 rainkingjr

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:46 PM

So when is this Cortex review by Shiels going to happen? The only reason why I am looking forward to it is in hopes that he uses the Rogue SIlver shaft that he usually plays so we can get a true idea of his numbers with the Cortex vs other drivers. Not that the Atmos is bad, but I've never really cared for Fujikura shafts that much.

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#160 uscgolfguy

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:53 PM

 boggyman, on 05 December 2018 - 09:16 PM, said:

 uscgolfguy, on 05 December 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

 RAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

"WAS"...

Wilson has a LOOOOONNNNGGG way to go and have acknowledge the fact that they had all but abandoned the mid-high end golf market segment.  They certainly are "trying" but they do not have the horsepower to take the golf "only" focused companies on head-to-head.  They are "trying", but how and why would anyone want to give their product a chance, when their perception in the market place is one of low "Wal-Mart-esque" quality?  This is not an opinion, but has been documented in many news articles over the years going all the way back to the early 90's and even 80's.

Their BIGGEST challenge is trying to figure out how to change their "brand perception".  They need brand ambassadors that can support their products with today's stas (i.e Trackman data, etc.), but more importantly WINS.  Everybody loves a WINNER, nobody likes a loser; until they can prove that they are a winner and can "beat" the "elite guys" (depends what you consider this to be...could be Callaway Driver - product or it could be Tiger Woods - person) at their own game...they will always be looked at as below standard.
Good post and some great points. The more I follow this thread the more I'm getting a sour taste fir Callaway. Sorry to jack tgectheead. But IF, and it is and will be hard to get the Walmart esque label off their shoulder. What I like most about W/S is they make great products that are not pushed with the idea of a blind consumer gaining 17 more yards, blah blah blah, you get my drift, false claims. After all, they've been around now 100 plus years. Who else can lay claim to that. Again, you've made some great points in your post.

I'm beginning to think that Wilson would almost be better served if they spun-off the Wilson Staff brand in an effort to separate it as a stand alone model???

They have Roger Federer and Serena Williams for Tennis and a ton of MLB guys all over the place...golf, not so much...can't even find any of their pro's on their pages, unlike all the other brands.


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#161 GolfChannel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:57 AM

View Postuscgolfguy, on 05 December 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

View PostRAT, on 05 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

I can say that some of you are just flat scared to try the Cortex! You are brain washed to fact that if it ain't TM ,Cally or Titly it's not any good.. Remember Nike (Junk) yet all the reviews said WOW ,where are they now ? Oh back to selling clothes ...
The Wilson will match all those listed today.. The real thing is Wilson was the" King of the Hill" and starting with the Cortex will be again..

"WAS"...

Wilson has a LOOOOONNNNGGG way to go and have acknowledge the fact that they had all but abandoned the mid-high end golf market segment.  They certainly are "trying" but they do not have the horsepower to take the golf "only" focused companies on head-to-head.  They are "trying", but how and why would anyone want to give their product a chance, when their perception in the market place is one of low "Wal-Mart-esque" quality?  This is not an opinion, but has been documented in many news articles over the years going all the way back to the early 90's and even 80's.

Their BIGGEST challenge is trying to figure out how to change their "brand perception".  They need brand ambassadors that can support their products with today's stas (i.e Trackman data, etc.), but more importantly WINS.  Everybody loves a WINNER, nobody likes a loser; until they can prove that they are a winner and can "beat" the "elite guys" (depends what you consider this to be...could be Callaway Driver - product or it could be Tiger Woods - person) at their own game...they will always be looked at as below standard.

I basically agree with this, did they ever see a bump from Paddy's run a few years back?
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#162 kmay__

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:22 AM

Haha to the OP, Triton I actually got on alright with, bought it clearance mostly cause the knew the 125 msi was a killer shaft... just picked up a 17' M2 to try though as I was never a huge fan of the Tritons look at address and the aluminum baseball bat sound. If I end up liking this M2 head ill likely swap the rouge shaft over and put the Triton head on the shelf in my golf room!
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#163 Fletch510k

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:28 AM

Oh That Felt Good

I tell you what
Fletch.
Taylormade R1, Callaway Razrx 3 wood, Exotics XCG Rescue 15°,
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#164 getitdaily

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.

Now, there is nothing wrong with copying. Copying gets us product variety and supposedly, better price options.

COR limits have basically eliminated innovation in ballspeeds (callaway saw marginal improvement with jailbreak). Innovation right now, in drivers, is about maximizing forgiveness while maintaining maximum COR.

So then think about pricing. Innovators generally get to reap the rewards of innovation through premium pricing. The product is different, and people want that.

Wilson's pricing strategy is to compete with the big boys on price. Why? To give the appearance of premium branding? Is the cortex all about brand placement at a loss? If so then they HAVE to make a big splash next year or their driver business is done...DONE.

Now let's examine innovation. Innovation in drivers is technical/physics based. The guys and gals who engineer these products aren't cheap labor. So, with Wilson being a struggling brand, how many, but more importantly, of what quality are their engineers? Are Wilson's engineers as intelligent as Taylormade's, Callaway's, Ping's, Mizuno's, Srixon's? Why are they relying on design innovation via crowd sourcing? Not a bad strategy for brand awareness because they get to make a mini series out of it and they build a bit of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't sustain unless you're the salvation army.

So the cortex HAD BETTER show good ball speeds. That's basically design requirement #1. Foe those who say "it's a good performing driver"...well it HAD BETTER BE. So let's not act surprised that a golf equipment company can make a good driver that does what everyone else does. Poor performance on the basics would be a disaster.

This points us all back to price. Their price point seems to be about brand positioning. If so then they've positioned themselves for success or failure next year. They better innovate or their brand positioning strategy will be a bust. They can't go back to being a loss leader in their next driver release (loss leaders try to gain market share via price) or they supplant themselves as second rate.

I think Wilson still thinks they're a big boy in the industry and are trying to skip product maturity cycles. That could be a death spell...

So Wilson, the cortex buzz basically got buzz sawed by a flash from callaway and new plumbing from taylormade. Let's see what your follow up is...

Edited by getitdaily, 06 December 2018 - 07:37 AM.


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#165 Double Gee

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:27 AM

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.



Nothing? My understanding is that the FULL titanium cage is the first time that's been seen in a driver from any company. Apparently creating an incredibly stable, distortion free head at impact.

You certainly are correct about companies copying though. They all do it.


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#166 getitdaily

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:31 AM

View PostDouble Gee, on 06 December 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.



Nothing? My understanding is that the FULL titanium cage is the first time that's been seen in a driver from any company. Apparently creating an incredibly stable, distortion free head at impact.

You certainly are correct about companies copying though. They all do it.

Joe consumer has no idea what a titanium chassis means. Stable and distortion free...

Stability (ie high MOI) is being done incredibly well by taylormade and ping.

Distortion free - not even sure what that means. What will it produce? Better ball speeds? Better feel? Better sound? Better WHAT?

16

#167 Double Gee

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:39 AM

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

View PostDouble Gee, on 06 December 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.



Nothing? My understanding is that the FULL titanium cage is the first time that's been seen in a driver from any company. Apparently creating an incredibly stable, distortion free head at impact.

You certainly are correct about companies copying though. They all do it.

Joe consumer has no idea what a titanium chassis means. Stable and distortion free...

Stability (ie high MOI) is being done incredibly well by taylormade and ping.

Distortion free - not even sure what that means. What will it produce? Better ball speeds? Better feel? Better sound? Better WHAT?

Can't say I know, but the point being is that the driver does have new technology after you stated it didn't.
Whether it makes I difference... Who knows.
But as most the claimed tech from most companies are pure nonsense, then Wilson are no different to others



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#168 getitdaily

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:46 AM

View PostDouble Gee, on 06 December 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

View PostDouble Gee, on 06 December 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.



Nothing? My understanding is that the FULL titanium cage is the first time that's been seen in a driver from any company. Apparently creating an incredibly stable, distortion free head at impact.

You certainly are correct about companies copying though. They all do it.

Joe consumer has no idea what a titanium chassis means. Stable and distortion free...

Stability (ie high MOI) is being done incredibly well by taylormade and ping.

Distortion free - not even sure what that means. What will it produce? Better ball speeds? Better feel? Better sound? Better WHAT?

Can't say I know, but the point being is that the driver does have new technology after you stated it didn't.
Whether it makes I difference... Who knows.
But as most the claimed tech from most companies are pure nonsense, then Wilson are no different to others

Which takes us right back to brand and price...

18

#169 boggyman

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:42 AM

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.

Now, there is nothing wrong with copying. Copying gets us product variety and supposedly, better price options.

COR limits have basically eliminated innovation in ballspeeds (callaway saw marginal improvement with jailbreak). Innovation right now, in drivers, is about maximizing forgiveness while maintaining maximum COR.

So then think about pricing. Innovators generally get to reap the rewards of innovation through premium pricing. The product is different, and people want that.

Wilson's pricing strategy is to compete with the big boys on price. Why? To give the appearance of premium branding? Is the cortex all about brand placement at a loss? If so then they HAVE to make a big splash next year or their driver business is done...DONE.

Now let's examine innovation. Innovation in drivers is technical/physics based. The guys and gals who engineer these products aren't cheap labor. So, with Wilson being a struggling brand, how many, but more importantly, of what quality are their engineers? Are Wilson's engineers as intelligent as Taylormade's, Callaway's, Ping's, Mizuno's, Srixon's? Why are they relying on design innovation via crowd sourcing? Not a bad strategy for brand awareness because they get to make a mini series out of it and they build a bit of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't sustain unless you're the salvation army.

So the cortex HAD BETTER show good ball speeds. That's basically design requirement #1. Foe those who say "it's a good performing driver"...well it HAD BETTER BE. So let's not act surprised that a golf equipment company can make a good driver that does what everyone else does. Poor performance on the basics would be a disaster.

This points us all back to price. Their price point seems to be about brand positioning. If so then they've positioned themselves for success or failure next year. They better innovate or their brand positioning strategy will be a bust. They can't go back to being a loss leader in their next driver release (loss leaders try to gain market share via price) or they supplant themselves as second rate.

I think Wilson still thinks they're a big boy in the industry and are trying to skip product maturity cycles. That could be a death spell...

So Wilson, the cortex buzz basically got buzz sawed by a flash from callaway and new plumbing from taylormade. Let's see what your follow up is...
Callaway seems to be in a reissue, recycling of their drivers other than Jail  Break. Face it, as you said, drivers are maxed and have been for several years. Thank you Cobra. As far as price goes, yes Cortez is overpriced as is all golf equipment these days. Ever stroll through an EW or the like and gander at prices. Ridiculous!! . Itís hard to trick the average Joe into believing itís new. Yes, Iím gaming the Cortez for a couple reasons,1. It totally beat my Rogue, which had my fave all time shaft. Itís longer, better ball flight, and just as straight. Streelmam has some wins, as does B.S. Yes, itíd be nice to see them sign a young gun or 2 but when deeper pocket pull out cash, we all know it talks. People automatically see a brand name on a bag and automatically think, look shat heís playing. Not always the case. In the world today it takes a lot to move the needle. Oh well, sorry for rambling.

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#170 radiman

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:46 AM

View Postboggyman, on 06 December 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.

Now, there is nothing wrong with copying. Copying gets us product variety and supposedly, better price options.

COR limits have basically eliminated innovation in ballspeeds (callaway saw marginal improvement with jailbreak). Innovation right now, in drivers, is about maximizing forgiveness while maintaining maximum COR.

So then think about pricing. Innovators generally get to reap the rewards of innovation through premium pricing. The product is different, and people want that.

Wilson's pricing strategy is to compete with the big boys on price. Why? To give the appearance of premium branding? Is the cortex all about brand placement at a loss? If so then they HAVE to make a big splash next year or their driver business is done...DONE.

Now let's examine innovation. Innovation in drivers is technical/physics based. The guys and gals who engineer these products aren't cheap labor. So, with Wilson being a struggling brand, how many, but more importantly, of what quality are their engineers? Are Wilson's engineers as intelligent as Taylormade's, Callaway's, Ping's, Mizuno's, Srixon's? Why are they relying on design innovation via crowd sourcing? Not a bad strategy for brand awareness because they get to make a mini series out of it and they build a bit of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't sustain unless you're the salvation army.

So the cortex HAD BETTER show good ball speeds. That's basically design requirement #1. Foe those who say "it's a good performing driver"...well it HAD BETTER BE. So let's not act surprised that a golf equipment company can make a good driver that does what everyone else does. Poor performance on the basics would be a disaster.

This points us all back to price. Their price point seems to be about brand positioning. If so then they've positioned themselves for success or failure next year. They better innovate or their brand positioning strategy will be a bust. They can't go back to being a loss leader in their next driver release (loss leaders try to gain market share via price) or they supplant themselves as second rate.

I think Wilson still thinks they're a big boy in the industry and are trying to skip product maturity cycles. That could be a death spell...

So Wilson, the cortex buzz basically got buzz sawed by a flash from callaway and new plumbing from taylormade. Let's see what your follow up is...
Callaway seems to be in a reissue, recycling of their drivers other than Jail  Break. Face it, as you said, drivers are maxed and have been for several years. Thank you Cobra. As far as price goes, yes Cortez is overpriced as is all golf equipment these days. Ever stroll through an EW or the like and gander at prices. Ridiculous!! . It's hard to trick the average Joe into believing it's new. Yes, I'm gaming the Cortez for a couple reasons,1. It totally beat my Rogue, which had my fave all time shaft. It's longer, better ball flight, and just as straight. Streelmam has some wins, as does B.S. Yes, it'd be nice to see them sign a young gun or 2 but when deeper pocket pull out cash, we all know it talks. People automatically see a brand name on a bag and automatically think, look shat he's playing. Not always the case. In the world today it takes a lot to move the needle. Oh well, sorry for rambling.

Wilson is still a big brand outside of their golf division.  They have some deep pockets to invest in their public perception for their golf clubs.  The corporate brand can afford to pay some bigger names and get their products seen on TV.  If they want to compete in price with the OEM's that are already doing so, they are going to have to follow suit.  

Glad to hear you had success with the Cortex.  I was on Wilson's site the other day and noticed that there are a lot more shaft options there than in store.  So, if anyone gets the chance to demo one with any of those shafts, they may find a better fit.

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#171 dalehead

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:15 AM

View Postrkelso184, on 05 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

This whole thing has made me go off Rick a bit hey! He has put up a "coming soon" a couple of times and seems to be playing off it more then he needs. I am a Rick fan, I defended him only about 20 comments ago BUT I don't like the way this whole Cortex/RS thing seems to be playing out.

Take it easy on Rick. People are equating him too much with the Cortex driver. Those who are in the anti Cortex camp are finding fault with him. Why did he throw in with Wilson in the first place? Where is his review? Will it be truly objective?

Rick Shiels was offered a gig by Wilson and he took it. Who here wouldn't. Rick is living a golf dream. Obscure driving range pro to You Tube personality and now consultant to a golf club manufacturer. Might be jealousy on the part of some folks.

I find Rick's videos entertaining. His reviews feature actual launch monitor data and his personal opinion. I have always had the impression that the opinions he offers are genuine, keeping in mind it is his opinion based on his experience. Taking his videos for more than that is foolish.

Personally I think he tested the Cortex and told Wilson "My review and the data I got are going to say the Cortex is an OK driver that performs about the same as other drivers on the market."  Wilson may have then asked him to hold off his review. We will see if his objectivity remains when and if the review comes out. Until then cut him some slack.

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#172 joeylough

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:34 AM

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.

Now, there is nothing wrong with copying. Copying gets us product variety and supposedly, better price options.

COR limits have basically eliminated innovation in ballspeeds (callaway saw marginal improvement with jailbreak). Innovation right now, in drivers, is about maximizing forgiveness while maintaining maximum COR.

So then think about pricing. Innovators generally get to reap the rewards of innovation through premium pricing. The product is different, and people want that.

Wilson's pricing strategy is to compete with the big boys on price. Why? To give the appearance of premium branding? Is the cortex all about brand placement at a loss? If so then they HAVE to make a big splash next year or their driver business is done...DONE.

Now let's examine innovation. Innovation in drivers is technical/physics based. The guys and gals who engineer these products aren't cheap labor. So, with Wilson being a struggling brand, how many, but more importantly, of what quality are their engineers? Are Wilson's engineers as intelligent as Taylormade's, Callaway's, Ping's, Mizuno's, Srixon's? Why are they relying on design innovation via crowd sourcing? Not a bad strategy for brand awareness because they get to make a mini series out of it and they build a bit of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't sustain unless you're the salvation army.

So the cortex HAD BETTER show good ball speeds. That's basically design requirement #1. Foe those who say "it's a good performing driver"...well it HAD BETTER BE. So let's not act surprised that a golf equipment company can make a good driver that does what everyone else does. Poor performance on the basics would be a disaster.

This points us all back to price. Their price point seems to be about brand positioning. If so then they've positioned themselves for success or failure next year. They better innovate or their brand positioning strategy will be a bust. They can't go back to being a loss leader in their next driver release (loss leaders try to gain market share via price) or they supplant themselves as second rate.

I think Wilson still thinks they're a big boy in the industry and are trying to skip product maturity cycles. That could be a death spell...

So Wilson, the cortex buzz basically got buzz sawed by a flash from callaway and new plumbing from taylormade. Let's see what your follow up is...

Surely the process was different? Driver vs Driver aren't they the only ones doing that? Being innovative in the process?

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#173 getitdaily

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:45 AM

View Postjoeylough, on 06 December 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.

Now, there is nothing wrong with copying. Copying gets us product variety and supposedly, better price options.

COR limits have basically eliminated innovation in ballspeeds (callaway saw marginal improvement with jailbreak). Innovation right now, in drivers, is about maximizing forgiveness while maintaining maximum COR.

So then think about pricing. Innovators generally get to reap the rewards of innovation through premium pricing. The product is different, and people want that.

Wilson's pricing strategy is to compete with the big boys on price. Why? To give the appearance of premium branding? Is the cortex all about brand placement at a loss? If so then they HAVE to make a big splash next year or their driver business is done...DONE.

Now let's examine innovation. Innovation in drivers is technical/physics based. The guys and gals who engineer these products aren't cheap labor. So, with Wilson being a struggling brand, how many, but more importantly, of what quality are their engineers? Are Wilson's engineers as intelligent as Taylormade's, Callaway's, Ping's, Mizuno's, Srixon's? Why are they relying on design innovation via crowd sourcing? Not a bad strategy for brand awareness because they get to make a mini series out of it and they build a bit of goodwill. But goodwill doesn't sustain unless you're the salvation army.

So the cortex HAD BETTER show good ball speeds. That's basically design requirement #1. Foe those who say "it's a good performing driver"...well it HAD BETTER BE. So let's not act surprised that a golf equipment company can make a good driver that does what everyone else does. Poor performance on the basics would be a disaster.

This points us all back to price. Their price point seems to be about brand positioning. If so then they've positioned themselves for success or failure next year. They better innovate or their brand positioning strategy will be a bust. They can't go back to being a loss leader in their next driver release (loss leaders try to gain market share via price) or they supplant themselves as second rate.

I think Wilson still thinks they're a big boy in the industry and are trying to skip product maturity cycles. That could be a death spell...

So Wilson, the cortex buzz basically got buzz sawed by a flash from callaway and new plumbing from taylormade. Let's see what your follow up is...

Surely the process was different? Driver vs Driver aren't they the only ones doing that? Being innovative in the process?

Process innovation would either include a noticeable (marketable) function or just reduce the cost to produce.

We don't see noticeable new tech so if there was an innovative manufacturing process then Wilson could be bolstered by cost to price where they did. That would mean the driver is solely about brand positioning at the risk of loss. Otherwise, a manufacturing process innovation would allow Wilson to make good margins on a lower priced driver.


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#174 uscgolfguy

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:54 AM

View Postkmay__, on 06 December 2018 - 07:22 AM, said:

Haha to the OP, Triton I actually got on alright with, bought it clearance mostly cause the knew the 125 msi was a killer shaft... just picked up a 17' M2 to try though as I was never a huge fan of the Tritons look at address and the aluminum baseball bat sound. If I end up liking this M2 head ill likely swap the rouge shaft over and put the Triton head on the shelf in my golf room!

It could make a GREAT trophy for the LOSER of your fantasy football league...

24

#175 jonn443

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:29 PM

Wilson hasn't had much going for it. That said, the F100 blades are stunning, the v6 tour irons are arguably one of the best player's cb on the market, the pmp wedges are as good as anything else, and the c300 Forged are a fantastic choice for a mid-capper.

They are definitely trending towards better quality equipment like the days of old. Cortex could be the nex great product for them however I see that price point being a large deterrent for golfers when comparing them to m4, rogue, and TS 2/3. Just name dropping by peers and brainwashed sales reps will cause others to automatically assume TM and Callaway are in a different league in performance... Which is far from the truth.

Let's see how this plays out.

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#176 mktrout

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:46 PM

Driver Vs Driver would be a cool show if the contestants were all Wilson's club designers already employed there and were competing for the winning design.  Eliminate all the stupid ideas from the first episode and just start right into with good designs from actual club designers and the winner gets a bonus from the company.
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#177 rich s

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:24 PM

I think we can all agree its a step in the right direction. It takes time to get back what they lost. There is a lot of buzz around the cortex, mission accomplished Wilson. I am sure the next offering will get even closer.

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#178 J13

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:52 PM

View Postrich s, on 06 December 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

I think we can all agree its a step in the right direction. It takes time to get back what they lost. There is a lot of buzz around the cortex, mission accomplished Wilson. I am sure the next offering will get even closer.

When they told Arnie they didn't need him they lost golf.  They cut their own throat.

Edited by J13, 06 December 2018 - 02:53 PM.

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#179 uscgolfguy

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:26 PM

View Postmktrout, on 06 December 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

Driver Vs Driver would be a cool show if the contestants were all Wilson's club designers already employed there and were competing for the winning design.  Eliminate all the stupid ideas from the first episode and just start right into with good designs from actual club designers and the winner gets a bonus from the company.

It would probably help if they could show their staff pro’s going through a fitting process and show an improvement from their old equipment with the Cortex in play.  Do we even know if there is 1 guy on tour who has this club in play? They need to show their numbers, if they want to move the needle and make change.  They need to show that there are positive results!!!  They can’t just say, “we are JUST as good”, nobody wants to be JUST as good...everyone is always looking for better.  


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#180 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:44 PM

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

View PostDouble Gee, on 06 December 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 06 December 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

To the folks who are trying to shame those of us who are calling out the Wilson brand and their pricing strategy by calling us haters...keep this in mind...

In business, generally you either innovate or you copy. Whether that innovation be product or process, you do one or the other.

Wilson is copying. There is nothing innovative about cortex...NOTHING.



Nothing? My understanding is that the FULL titanium cage is the first time that's been seen in a driver from any company. Apparently creating an incredibly stable, distortion free head at impact.

You certainly are correct about companies copying though. They all do it.

Joe consumer has no idea what a titanium chassis means. Stable and distortion free...

Stability (ie high MOI) is being done incredibly well by taylormade and ping.

Distortion free - not even sure what that means. What will it produce? Better ball speeds? Better feel? Better sound? Better WHAT?

Maybe it means the head won't crack if you swing over 100 mph?

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