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John Senden at the Australian PGA


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#31 slocagolfer

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:41 PM

View Postb.helts, on 28 November 2018 - 10:32 PM, said:

Not watching but sounds amazing. If anyone sees a video and can post it here I’d love to check it out.

At q school, 1st stage, in 2003 I think, my 3 wood shaft splintered in the middle of my downswing on the 10th hole at Dayton Valley. It went about 210 yards and like 40 yards left, almost out of bounds. Can’t imagine a total whiff. God that sucks.

Complete thread jack, but I see you’re from Los Osos. Going to the Straight Down?


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#32 slocagolfer

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:47 PM

Back t the topic at hand. If you look at Senden’s follow through his arms are all out of position. To me, it’s evidence he wasn’t trying to hit the ball.

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#33 b.helts

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:00 AM

View Postslocagolfer, on 28 November 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 28 November 2018 - 10:32 PM, said:

Not watching but sounds amazing. If anyone sees a video and can post it here Iíd love to check it out.

At q school, 1st stage, in 2003 I think, my 3 wood shaft splintered in the middle of my downswing on the 10th hole at Dayton Valley. It went about 210 yards and like 40 yards left, almost out of bounds. Canít imagine a total whiff. God that sucks.

Complete thread jack, but I see youíre from Los Osos. Going to the Straight Down?

I played in it a few years ago. Not going this year.

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#34 lowheel

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:07 AM

View PostGolfer4Life, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 PM, said:

I don't know who, but someone threw an F bomb in the background when he was told about the tee position.

As he should, its a terrible rule with no real life application. There is no advantage to be gained in this scenario. Senden has alot of lag and is a prolific ball striker. He should be allowed to tee it down.

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#35 b.helts

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:30 AM

View Postlowheel, on 29 November 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 PM, said:

I don't know who, but someone threw an F bomb in the background when he was told about the tee position.

As he should, its a terrible rule with no real life application. There is no advantage to be gained in this scenario. Senden has alot of lag and is a prolific ball striker. He should be allowed to tee it down.

The ball shouldnít have been in play to begin with. BUT, once it was deemed to have been in play, the only option was for him to have to play it as it lied.


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#36 anth

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:43 AM

My understanding was no intent = no stroke.

Secondly, why canít he replace his driver?  It was broken during the course of play.  Is it a time issue?  As in it would take too long to get a new driver to him out on course?
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#37 thevaporz

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:48 AM

He didn't bring a backup driver.

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#38 OutBackHack

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 06:31 AM

View Postanth, on 29 November 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

My understanding was no intent = no stroke.

Secondly, why canít he replace his driver?  It was broken during the course of play.  Is it a time issue?  As in it would take too long to get a new driver to him out on course?

Next year the option to replace a damaged club is gone... You have to suck it up for the rest of the round. You can still use the non conforming club for the remainder of the round though.

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#39 sui generis

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 07:27 AM

View Postb.helts, on 29 November 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

View Postlowheel, on 29 November 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 PM, said:

I don't know who, but someone threw an F bomb in the background when he was told about the tee position.

As he should, its a terrible rule with no real life application. There is no advantage to be gained in this scenario. Senden has alot of lag and is a prolific ball striker. He should be allowed to tee it down.

The ball shouldn't have been in play to begin with. BUT, once it was deemed to have been in play, the only option was for him to have to play it as it lied.

If it was determined that the ball was in play, he could take relief from the moveable obstruction (the tee) it was on and drop.
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#40 Valtiel

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 07:38 AM

John Senden WITB Google searches have likely tripled. :p

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| | Posted Image SQ2 13* Diamana Blueboard 83x
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                                                             WITB Thread

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#41 b.helts

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 08:23 AM

View Postsui generis, on 29 November 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 29 November 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

View Postlowheel, on 29 November 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 PM, said:

I don't know who, but someone threw an F bomb in the background when he was told about the tee position.

As he should, its a terrible rule with no real life application. There is no advantage to be gained in this scenario. Senden has alot of lag and is a prolific ball striker. He should be allowed to tee it down.

The ball shouldn't have been in play to begin with. BUT, once it was deemed to have been in play, the only option was for him to have to play it as it lied.

If it was determined that the ball was in play, he could take relief from the moveable obstruction (the tee) it was on and drop.

Youíre right! I missed that. Is that what happened or did he hit his iron off the driver tee?

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#42 The Mad Bomber

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 09:45 AM

View PostValtiel, on 29 November 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

John Senden WITB Google searches have likely tripled. :p

This is the million dollar question - what was the shaft? Slow-mo is inconclusive, but the baby blue band is almost TPT'ish'...
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WITB link

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#43 OGrads13

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:34 AM

This exact thing just happened to my brother while we were playing over Thanksgiving. First tee, people eating in the dining area watching. Unlike Senden, he was able to find the fairway.
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#44 ebrasmus21

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:35 AM

View PostThe Mad Bomber, on 29 November 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

View PostValtiel, on 29 November 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

John Senden WITB Google searches have likely tripled. :p

This is the million dollar question - what was the shaft? Slow-mo is inconclusive, but the baby blue band is almost TPT'ish'...

I’m pretty sure you’re correct.  I thought he was a pro orange guy but that is looking like a TPT
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#45 cardoustie

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 11:09 AM

For sure he pulls out of the shot, you see him chicken wing it.

Official got it wrong

PS this rule should be added in asap, club breaks during swing.  Free replay (like hitting power lines) optional

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#46 grm24

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:14 PM

View Postb.helts, on 29 November 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postsui generis, on 29 November 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 29 November 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

View Postlowheel, on 29 November 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 PM, said:

I don't know who, but someone threw an F bomb in the background when he was told about the tee position.

As he should, its a terrible rule with no real life application. There is no advantage to be gained in this scenario. Senden has alot of lag and is a prolific ball striker. He should be allowed to tee it down.

The ball shouldn't have been in play to begin with. BUT, once it was deemed to have been in play, the only option was for him to have to play it as it lied.

If it was determined that the ball was in play, he could take relief from the moveable obstruction (the tee) it was on and drop.

You're right! I missed that. Is that what happened or did he hit his iron off the driver tee?
He took a drop.

https://www.golfdige...ga-championship

Senden actually wound up getting to take a drop when his tee was considered an obstruction, but the shot was not rescinded. He played an iron for his second and went on to make bogey, which, all things considered, was a great result.

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#47 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 12:54 PM

View Postslocagolfer, on 28 November 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

Back t the topic at hand. If you look at Senden’s follow through his arms are all out of position. To me, it’s evidence he wasn’t trying to hit the ball.

Just as easy to argue that his arms are way out of position simply because the shaft broke and losing control of the swing is simply the natural result.  Parts aren’t going to stay in the correct position.

Obviously I’m not a professional, but having had a shaft break, the only thought that went through my head was WTF is going on here?  It’s absolutely the last thing you’re expecting, especially off a tee, and I have a hard time believing that he identified the problem and attempted a correction in that split second.  

To me, it’s completely different from the Na situation where he had control of the club and was considering stopping before he even started.  There was a thought process going on before he ever took the club back.
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#48 I_HATE_SNOW

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:00 PM

Should have had a spare shaft in the bag, swap it and hit it.

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#49 OutBackHack

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:19 PM

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Should have had a spare shaft in the bag, swap it and hit it.

Pretty sure that's illegal.


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#50 sui generis

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:31 PM

The conversation with the Committee may have gone something like this:

Chief Referee, John Paramor,  "Mr Senden, when you felt the shaft break did you change your mind about trying to hit the ball?"

John Senden, "Well it all happened so fast. My hand hurt like hell and I just reacted."

JP, "So did you try to miss the ball with your swing?"

JS, "I don't know."

JP, "I'm afraid the stroke must count."

From Golf Australia, Senden said of the incident. “I had no chance of actually stopping the shot, so unfortunately that counts as actually one stroke."

https://www.golfaust...decision-516254

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#51 MattyO1984

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:39 PM

Never seen anything like that happen, pretty remarkable.

I did hear that Chubby Chandler back when he was a Pro used to snap shafts a lot when he younger but I am pretty sure it was Chubby who told that story which means I took it with a pinch of salt.
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#52 seve1972

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 03:45 PM

....just in....John Senden admitted to buying that driver off of Ebay.  If you listen to the caddie on the audio......."dude....this driver is a knock-off"......   true story.

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#53 I_HATE_SNOW

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:26 PM

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Should have had a spare shaft in the bag, swap it and hit it.

Pretty sure that's illegal.
Why?  Replacing a damaged club is still legal.  Spare shaft isn't a club.  Should get around the 14 club rule, just don't try to change an unbroken shaft during the round.

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#54 OutBackHack

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:28 PM

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Should have had a spare shaft in the bag, swap it and hit it.

Pretty sure that's illegal.
Why?  Replacing a damaged club is still legal.  Spare shaft isn't a club.  Should get around the 14 club rule, just don't try to change an unbroken shaft during the round.

I don't think carrying spare parts to do on course repairs is legal.... I'll let the rules aficionados site the rule though.

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#55 I_HATE_SNOW

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:32 PM

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postanth, on 29 November 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

My understanding was no intent = no stroke.

Secondly, why can't he replace his driver?  It was broken during the course of play.  Is it a time issue?  As in it would take too long to get a new driver to him out on course?

Next year the option to replace a damaged club is gone... You have to suck it up for the rest of the round. You can still use the non conforming club for the remainder of the round though.
Did not know that, had to find it.




Golf's New Rules: Major Changes




2019 Rule: Under Rule 4.1:
  • A player will be allowed to keep using and/or to repair any club damaged during the round, no matter what the damage and even if the player damaged it in anger.
  • A player will not be allowed to replace a damaged club, except when it is damaged during the round by an outside influence or natural forces or by someone other than the player or his or her caddie.
Reasons for Change:
This Rule change will greatly simplify the complex Rules on damaged clubs.
In particular, deciding when a club is “unfit for play” may require a technical judgment that few players have the depth of understanding to make, and even referees can find it challenging to make such judgments quickly and consistently on the course.
Allowing a player to keep using or to repair any damaged club, regardless of the nature or cause of the damage, will benefit players in several ways.
  • It will help players avoid the disqualification penalties that can arise today when a player hits a club against something in anger and then continues to use the club, not realizing that the shaft was slightly bent or some other damage had occurred.
  • The player will be able to choose whether to continue using that club in its damaged state or to use another club; whereas today, for example, a player who damages a putter in anger is not allowed to use it for the rest of the round (even if it is still in a usable form) and so ends up having to putt with a wedge or another club.
Although there will be times when a damaged club is unusable and cannot be readily repaired on the course (such as when a driver head comes off), the practical ability to get a replacement club is seldom present other than at some elite levels of golf.
This change will be consistent with the overall philosophy that a player normally should play the entire round with only the clubs that he or she started with or added during the round to get to the 14-club limit.


  Sounds like you could still put a new shaft in an adjustable hosel club.  Even if you broke it in anger.

Edited by I_HATE_SNOW, 29 November 2018 - 04:33 PM.


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#56 I_HATE_SNOW

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:44 PM

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Should have had a spare shaft in the bag, swap it and hit it.

Pretty sure that's illegal.
Why?  Replacing a damaged club is still legal.  Spare shaft isn't a club.  Should get around the 14 club rule, just don't try to change an unbroken shaft during the round.

I don't think carrying spare parts to do on course repairs is legal.... I'll let the rules aficionados site the rule though.

You are right, rule 4-3 a iii
must not be made by borrowing any club selected for play by any other person playing on the course or by assembling components carried by or for the player during the stipulated round.

Wonder if it will be legal next year as you are allowed to repair a club.

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#57 OutBackHack

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 05:03 PM

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostOutBackHack, on 29 November 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostI_HATE_SNOW, on 29 November 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Should have had a spare shaft in the bag, swap it and hit it.

Pretty sure that's illegal.
Why?  Replacing a damaged club is still legal.  Spare shaft isn't a club.  Should get around the 14 club rule, just don't try to change an unbroken shaft during the round.

I don't think carrying spare parts to do on course repairs is legal.... I'll let the rules aficionados site the rule though.

You are right, rule 4-3 a iii
must not be made by borrowing any club selected for play by any other person playing on the course or by assembling components carried by or for the player during the stipulated round.

Wonder if it will be legal next year as you are allowed to repair a club.


Where I may have taken an educated guess at the rules around Sendo's club, I actually do know the rules and how it will work next year.

If you break a club, no matter how, you cannot replace it until the end of the round. Period. (EDIT: unless its damaged by outside influence.)(which never happens really)
If it is then a non-conforming club, you can still continue to use it for the remainder of THAT round only.
At no point can you sub in a new club during that round.

You can also carry non conforming clubs in your bag next year, as long as you don't use them. For example, you can have 14 clubs plus a practice putter that doesn't conform as long as you don't use that putter.

Edited by OutBackHack, 29 November 2018 - 05:05 PM.


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#58 imakaveli

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 05:06 PM

Rule may be weird in this situation but it makes sense, did he buy drinks as well? 😏

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#59 aussieb

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 05:38 PM

View PostThe Mad Bomber, on 29 November 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

View PostValtiel, on 29 November 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

John Senden WITB Google searches have likely tripled. :p

This is the million dollar question - what was the shaft? Slow-mo is inconclusive, but the baby blue band is almost TPT'ish'...

To answer the shaft question, it was a TPT shaft though I didn't catch the exact spec on it.  And yes he can replace it during the round according to the rules due to it not being damaged in a deliberate manner contrary to an attempted golf swing (i.e. practice swings included)
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#60 caniac6

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 06:15 PM

I had the same thing happen with a steel shafted driver many years ago.


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