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What's your take on napa putters?


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#1 ghoonk

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 05:05 AM

Just picked one up in Borealis Black from a local seller 3 weeks back. Headcover was drier than a mummy, and it's taken me a while to get used to it. My gamer is a Miura MGP-03, but I'm growing oddly fond of this napa-style putter - 20 for 20 on an artificial 6' putting strip isn't bad for my level of play.

What seems to work for me is the relatively heavier head weight (the SS6 is 358g, while most other napa-style heads are in the 320-335g range)

As it stands, I've never seen anyone else game a napa putter in over 10 years of playing golf, and now I'm wondering how many of you guys do, and what you used to game before switching

Also, aside from the SS6, are there any other napa putters out there that don't break the bank? I've looked at the SC Napa (all below 350g, and $$$ with risk of eBay fakes) and the Wilson 8802 (nice and relatively cheap, would make a nice beater napa if it wasn't only 320g).


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#2 bazinoz

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:00 AM

View Postghoonk, on 27 November 2018 - 05:05 AM, said:

As it stands, I've never seen anyone else game a napa putter in over 10 years of playing golf,

Come over to Oz and have a round with me mate :)

I love 8802/Napa styles. And you can pick them up in many weights from old and very light to newer and heavy.

Btw - it's an 8802. Napa came a lot, lot later :)

Posted Image

And if you are after 8802's that don't break the bank. Wilson like you mentioned (and there are many of them). Some of the newer Wilson Staff 8802's I believe are 350g+.

Rife Bimini is nice and Odyssey #8 (I have a Black Series Tour Designs in the photo above, it's beautiful). And all the boutique makers will do an 8802 style. Unfortunately they are often a lot more $$ than their standard Anser or mallet styles. I think they see us classic blade lovers coming :)


Edit - here's an older photo of some of mine. Details on the soles if you see a putter you like so you can look for one.

Posted Image

And you can add Scotty Napa, Rife Bimini, Yes! Sophia and Odyssey #8 since that photo was taken.

Edited by bazinoz, 27 November 2018 - 06:08 AM.


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#3 ghoonk

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:51 PM

Holy smokes - that a sweet collection right there!

Oz is a good 14 hours away from where I am right now (Dubai), but I'm from Singapore, so I might take you up on that offer when I'm back in Singapore middle of next year!

So the 8802 came way before the 'napa' label was slapped onto it (by SC, I suspect). I really enjoy a more compact head, something like Miura's KM-008, but that's crazy expensive and hard to find these days, which is why I'm looking out for a Wilson 8802 or maybe one of the Designed by Cleveland Classic putters, but definitely something without a sightlight or alignment dot. I've spotted a few Designed by Cleveland Classic putters on eBay and am considering pulling the trigger on one to see what it's like

How do you find the 8802 compared to the 'expensive' stuff (e.g. SC)? I've heard good things about the 8802, and if it's anywhere as good as the Studio Stock 6, I might just spring for it

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#4 dpark

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 12:28 AM

Even before Wilson slapped the "8802" name on a putter, Macgregor had the Ironmaster line and those go back to the 30s.

I game 8802-style putter too. I prefer the lighter heads (320g) as they have more feel for my putting style. Also strongly prefer the "gun blue" finishes vs any of the chromed finishes just because they "feel" softer (you really can't feel the difference but they "sound" softer and that is a whole different topic)

I have a DBAP (Designed by Arnold Palmer) which is the same putter headshape, but Wilson renamed it the 8802 when Arnie split from Wilson in 1963. This putter is just too light for my tastes with a C9 swingweight. The heavier, modern 8802 style putters also don't work because they feel so heavy that I can't get the putterhead moving back smoothly.
Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
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1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

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Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
Adams A2P 18* hybrid
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
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Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa

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#5 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 01:40 AM

View Postdpark, on 28 November 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

Even before Wilson slapped the "8802" name on a putter, Macgregor had the Ironmaster line and those go back to the 30s.

I game 8802-style putter too. I prefer the lighter heads (320g) as they have more feel for my putting style. Also strongly prefer the "gun blue" finishes vs any of the chromed finishes just because they "feel" softer (you really can't feel the difference but they "sound" softer and that is a whole different topic)

I have a DBAP (Designed by Arnold Palmer) which is the same putter headshape, but Wilson renamed it the 8802 when Arnie split from Wilson in 1963. This putter is just too light for my tastes with a C9 swingweight. The heavier, modern 8802 style putters also don't work because they feel so heavy that I can't get the putterhead moving back smoothly.

Interesting - the SS6 was the first 8802-style i tried which worked for me. I can't say for sure if it's the swingweight or the stability that I like, but I've historically not done well with 340g putters in other head styles. There's a nice Made by Cleveland Classic new old stock on ebay now which I might just purchase just to see how it plays out


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#6 Rob McHugh

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 04:31 AM

My Aussie mate Baz has a lovely collection of blades. You can't go wrong with a 8802 style head - I promise it will improve anyone's stroke. The SS6 is a nice stick with the beautiful fly milling but a tad heavy for me. That Cleveland Ben Crenshaw is a good solid putter.

Good luck there are many great blades out there and Nicklaus, Palmer, Locke et al sank lots of putts with them! :-)

Rob

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#7 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 04:54 AM

This 8802 bug is really starting to bite. Been reading up and there's all kinds of stuff out there, from the BeCu versions to the BeNi versions, and then there are copper variants. My dad gave me his old Ping BeCu anser style putter some time back (it's back in Singapore) and I recall how soft it felt at impact. Only thing I didn't like about it was the weight (too light), but there must be napa variants out there!

Some people chase Pokemon. I'm now hunting down 8802/napa putters - I must capture them all!

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#8 joker21

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 05:39 AM

there is the heavy putter by boccieri that makes one called the m4-l. It's 375 grams

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#9 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 06:12 AM

View Postjoker21, on 28 November 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

there is the heavy putter by boccieri that makes one called the m4-l. It's 375 grams

This one? https://www.ebay.com...a9g0l:rk:3:pf:0

Looks pretty nice, but my head fails to get around sight lines on these napas. Admittedly, I do like the empty circle that SC puts on their napas ;)

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#10 bazinoz

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 06:12 AM

View Postghoonk, on 27 November 2018 - 11:51 PM, said:

Holy smokes - that a sweet collection right there!

Oz is a good 14 hours away from where I am right now (Dubai), but I'm from Singapore, so I might take you up on that offer when I'm back in Singapore middle of next year!

So the 8802 came way before the 'napa' label was slapped onto it (by SC, I suspect). I really enjoy a more compact head, something like Miura's KM-008, but that's crazy expensive and hard to find these days, which is why I'm looking out for a Wilson 8802 or maybe one of the Designed by Cleveland Classic putters, but definitely something without a sightlight or alignment dot. I've spotted a few Designed by Cleveland Classic putters on eBay and am considering pulling the trigger on one to see what it's like

How do you find the 8802 compared to the 'expensive' stuff (e.g. SC)? I've heard good things about the 8802, and if it's anywhere as good as the Studio Stock 6, I might just spring for it

ghook, whenever you are near Brissy mate, give me a call :)

dpark is correct about the lineage. But somehow they never got referred to as ironmasters, just 8802's over the past decades.

And you are correct in your post above about there being 1000's of variants. Just about every putter maker does an 8802/Napa variant.
Do a search on 8802 on GolfWrx putter forums. There's been a few threads listing all the models people can think of. It gets very, very long.

I have 4 or 5 Wilson versions. The 8802 is my favorite over the 8813 and 8882. The original is also my preferred over the newer "Staff" version. But that's probably because like dpark I also seem to putt better with a lighter putter. And to this chopper/hacker they are every bit as good putting-wise as a scotty or betti or whatever. I'm not too sure whether the amount of $$ paid for a putter corresponds much with how well it plays. But having said that, I have 4 scotty's, a Lajosi, a Betti, a Yamada and other boutiques. That's just the Ho in me.

Of all my putters, I have an ancient Old Master W802 that is as good or better than all my others. I still "game" it more than my Napa, although it is very light.
I actually have 2 of them. One left with it's original dings, scrapes and beautiful patina. The other one I've highly polished and is a gorgeous golden colour.
You can see them 2nd & 3rd left bottom row in the 2nd pic next to another old fave - a Titleist Acushnet heel-shafted flange putter (with the sound slot).

Those Cleveland DB's are very well regarded. I'm on the lookout for one myself.

Another favorite as I said above is the Odyssey Black #8. Lot heavier being more recent. And nowhere near the price of the boutique makes.
And don't forget the Ping Tess. I have shop-tried one of the newer Sigma Tess putters and it went straight to the top of my Xmas wish list. Not sure I have enough browny-points with the missus.

Lajosi (over here in Oz) makes gorgeous putters. His LP808 is his take on the Napa. Usually around the 350g mark I think. You can probably ask him for heavier if you wish. And with the exchange rate of the Aussie $ at the moment I think they are very competitive price-wise. It's another one on my hit list.

And the Betti's are also top notch. I think they have 2 or 3 different 8802/Napa styles (SS6 and BB2 are both this style. Think there is another one as well).


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#11 bazinoz

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 06:21 AM

View PostRob McHugh, on 28 November 2018 - 04:31 AM, said:

My Aussie mate Baz has a lovely collection of blades. You can't go wrong with a 8802 style head - I promise it will improve anyone's stroke. The SS6 is a nice stick with the beautiful fly milling but a tad heavy for me. That Cleveland Ben Crenshaw is a good solid putter.

Good luck there are many great blades out there and Nicklaus, Palmer, Locke et al sank lots of putts with them! :-)

Rob


Thanks Rob. High praise indeed.

And not forgetting Lefty-Phil gamed a Yonex Super ADX Forged. Not many better putters than him in his prime. I have a RH Yonex in my collection.
Just find it waaaay too shiny and bright in our Queensland sun. It's for use on cloudy days :)

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#12 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 06:52 AM

@bazinoz

I completely forgot that Bettinardi had the BB2- I'll have to take a look at it!

I just pulled the trigger on this: : https://www.ebay.com...872.m2749.l2649 so i'll share my 2 cents when/if it finally arrives

Personal experience with the 'big boys' like Taylormade have recenlty been disappointing. Build quality couldn't be worse - I've had paint chip off my TM Spider Tour center shafted a couple of rounds after purchasing, and a weird white ring is starting to form around the face insert. Compared to the boutique brands and less techy putters (like an 8802 style - what tech?! :lol:), these new putters really fall short on quality, hence I'm staying away from anything produced these days with a face insert.

So, thanks to you guys, i'm currently eyeing

A Bettinardi BB2
An Odyssey Black #8

and checking out Lajosi

p.s. how do you guys hide your putters from your significant other?

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#13 bazinoz

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 07:56 AM

View Postghoonk, on 28 November 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

p.s. how do you guys hide your putters from your significant other?

I'll gladly share any and all information I know about golf and a whole range of other things.

But I'd want paying big bucks to divulge that nugget ;)

Edited by bazinoz, 28 November 2018 - 07:59 AM.


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#14 DrJACOB

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:08 AM

I have a collection of Left handed 8802/DBAP putters that is just less than 20 or so.  I have gamed them all however my best results are with a Bettinardi BB2 with Copper insert (345/350g).  This will be the best quality insert putter with a modern weight.  The Yonex ADX like Mickelson played way back  is on the light side (Graphite shaft) however it works well for me on supper fast greens for some reason.  As mentioned above the finish is shinny on sunny days can be a draw back.

One last one that I would throw out there is the Odyssey PT-82.  It has an insert and line for alignment but I think it is the most forgiving of this style.  Guess I like Mickelson because he has won with all these on tour. LOL
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BB2 or at least one of my 8802 style putters

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#15 cardoustie

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:16 AM

I have a used SC Napa limited I'd let go.  I gamed it for a year so many would want to refinish if they are not bagging it

I think my fitter may have a miura blade putter in his cabinet.

I'm in Canada

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#16 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:18 AM

I used to have a YES putter in the Napa shape .. fantastic putter w great roll and feel
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#17 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:00 AM

View Postbazinoz, on 28 November 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

View Postghoonk, on 28 November 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

p.s. how do you guys hide your putters from your significant other?

I'll gladly share any and all information I know about golf and a whole range of other things.

But I'd want paying big bucks to divulge that nugget ;)

Lol I can imagine! Thatís a special skill that takes years to acquire!

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#18 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:01 AM

View Postcardoustie, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

I have a used SC Napa limited I'd let go.  I gamed it for a year so many would want to refinish if they are not bagging it

I think my fitter may have a miura blade putter in his cabinet.

I'm in Canada

Ooooh, what would you happen to be asking for it?

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#19 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:19 AM

View Postcardoustie, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

I have a used SC Napa limited I'd let go.  I gamed it for a year so many would want to refinish if they are not bagging it

I think my fitter may have a miura blade putter in his cabinet.

I'm in Canada


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#20 bazinoz

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 04:20 PM

View Postcardoustie, on 28 November 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

I used to have a YES putter in the Napa shape .. fantastic putter w great roll and feel

Think that is the Yes! Sophia.

It's the 8802 variant for them. I have one too. Bottom right 2nd pic.

View Postcardoustie, on 28 November 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

I have a used SC Napa limited I'd let go.  I gamed it for a year so many would want to refinish if they are not bagging it

I think my fitter may have a miura blade putter in his cabinet.

I'm in Canada

We want pictures please Sir. :)

Edited by bazinoz, 28 November 2018 - 04:27 PM.


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#21 craz-e

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 08:09 PM

love the 8802 head shape, although I have also been eyeing up the Miura KM-008 putter as well. Never seem to see many Bettinardi SS6 putters pop up for sale as that's another one I am considering
Driver = Titleist TS3, Even Flow White 6.0 (44.5")
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Putter = Wilson Staff 8882
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#22 Misc1600

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:34 PM

What’s difference in a TP Mills 1 vs a 8802

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#23 ghoonk

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:09 PM

View Postcraz-e, on 28 November 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

love the 8802 head shape, although I have also been eyeing up the Miura KM-008 putter as well. Never seem to see many Bettinardi SS6 putters pop up for sale as that's another one I am considering

I have thing for the 008 at the moment as well, but that thing retailed at 450 and prices are now almost double that. It's crazy. I'll be checking them out at Torque Golf when I'm back in Singapore in early Feb :)

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#24 dpark

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:14 AM

Here is my "family pic" of my 8802-style putters... Yeah, they can be a little addicting...

family2011-07a.jpg
Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E
1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

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Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
Adams A2P 18* hybrid
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
Titleist SM6 wedges 52, 56, 60
Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa

24

#25 ghoonk

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:57 AM

you guys are unreal. :swoon:


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#26 NotZoro

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 02:11 AM

Another 8802/napa style blade you can find on the cheap are the Walter Hagens...either his namesake model or the Gentle Ben by Crenshaw. You can find them in various condition on auction sites, so you might get lucky and find a mint one, or possibly one that can be refinished. Either way, they're worth it, especially if they come with the original stepped & fluted shaft. They're definitely on the lighter side, compared to more modern models, but once you get used to it, you might find, as I do, that distance control for anything over 15' is better.
I'm a recovering putter-ho that's tried a lot of styles, from Spalding T.P. Mills #4, Ping B-60 Isopur, Ping Anser Milled #5, Cameron Newport 2, TaylorMade Spider Counter balanced, SeeMore OneCS, Odyssey Black Series #6, Odyssey 2-Ball White Hot & DX, Odyssey WhiteHot #9...ok, you get the point. But of all these excellent models, none have performed as well, felt as good or looked as pleasingly simple as my three 8802/napa style blades; the Hagen Gentle Ben, a Designed by Cleveland and an Odyssey Black Series #8. These are the last three putters I've acquired (all 2nd hand) and I only wish I'd tried them before spending so much time & $ on all the rest. I was foolishly under the impression that they're way too unforgiving & require far too much precision, considering they lacked the high MOI, heel-toe weighting, alignment aids, face insert technology etc etc. - but low and behold, I simply putt much better with this older and far simpler blade design. Only reason I decided to give them a try was after I stumbled upon some YouTube videos of Ben Crenshaw casually, smoothly sweeping putts as if he was just rolling balls out of his hand. First time I gave a blade a try, I kept that image of his syrupy stroke in my mind & it just felt free, mindless & natural. Not surprisingly, I thought less & less about my stroke or setup & started sinking more putts & when they didn't drop, most were left at tap in range. Here's wishing you'll find the same if not more success. cheers

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#27 ghoonk

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 03:24 AM

funny you mention that - i've noticed that as well. You can't strangle an 8802 and expect it to putt well. Light touch, take it back slowly, and let the shoulders do the work with a firm follow-through. After putting 30 balls with my SS6, I can putt with my Acushnet bullseye, SC AC3 flanged bullseye, Anser, Miura MGP-M3, MGP-NM1 (wife's), Betti BB1F, and even the TM Spider Tour center shafted

The nice thing about your recommendation is that they are probably priced like the Acushnet Bullseyes that I picked up years ago for $25 to $50 a pop, depending on condition. Nothing too much to get fussed about the condition, but yeah, the fluted shafts are hard to beat. My super vintage bullseye putter is far softer to putt with compared to the Scotty American Classic III flanged which, in comparison to the bullseye and SS6, looks like quasimodo!

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#28 bazinoz

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:10 PM

View Postdpark, on 29 November 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Here is my "family pic" of my 8802-style putters... Yeah, they can be a little addicting...

Attachment family2011-07a.jpg

Lovely family portrait.

And all smiling nicely too :)

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#29 dpark

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 06:34 PM

View Postbazinoz, on 29 November 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

View Postdpark, on 29 November 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Here is my "family pic" of my 8802-style putters... Yeah, they can be a little addicting...

Attachment family2011-07a.jpg

Lovely family portrait.

And all smiling nicely too :)

Thank you.

They're good kids overall. Some misbehave a bit at times, but with a "timeout" in a dark closet for a few months and their disposition improves :)
Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E
1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

New stuff
Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
Adams A2P 18* hybrid
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
Titleist SM6 wedges 52, 56, 60
Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa

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#30 ManBearPig98

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 09:42 PM

IMG_1543545744.286260.jpg


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