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Wedge help


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#61 FourTops

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.


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#62 Obee

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 12:48 PM

 FourTops, on 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.

I agree that using a pitching wedge for shots of all sorts will make you a better player in the long run. However that strategy is severely limited when you play a tough, tournament set up golf course with tucked pins and firm, fast greens.

There will be pins you simply cannot go at with PW from 90 yards, especially to elevated greens if they are firm.
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#63 FourTops

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 12:58 PM

 Obee, on 01 December 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.

I agree that using a pitching wedge for shots of all sorts will make you a better player in the long run. However that strategy is severely limited when you play a tough, tournament set up golf course with tucked pins and firm, fast greens.

There will be pins you simply cannot go at with PW from 90 yards, especially to elevated greens if they are firm.

Maybe to some extent, but my course requires a bunch of forced carry approach shots and the greens are lightning fast.  Some pins just aren't meant to be attacked unless one is uber-precise, but even then a slight miss can result in a double.  I play the odds which may be why I'm comfortable with the PW..

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#64 Hawkeye77

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 10:23 AM

 Obee, on 01 December 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.

I agree that using a pitching wedge for shots of all sorts will make you a better player in the long run. However that strategy is severely limited when you play a tough, tournament set up golf course with tucked pins and firm, fast greens.

There will be pins you simply cannot go at with PW from 90 yards, especially to elevated greens if they are firm.

And to echo Obee in a slightly different way, many of us who can't manufacture all the shots we need with one club and don't play tournament setups find it a lot easier to find the wedge shots we need in a combination of different lofts and bounces.

I don't think because someone uses a 60 degree for everything inside 80 yards and finds success means an argument against what works for others.

Way too much chance of too much spin, other errors for me trying to hit a 60 degree 80 yards and I tossed mine out in favor of a 58 degree a couple of years ago and haven't missed it at all, but it's rare I'm taking a "full cut" (not meaning "full" swing) with a 58 degree wedge.  75-80 yards is a perfect, controlled 54 for me, why would I swing harder and spin more and come in higher or lefter or shorter with a 60?  That's what the 60 introduces into that equation for me.

So many variables, and for me a combination of wedges helps me sort through them easier, if that means I'm lacking talent, lol, so be it, but sometimes I get my ball around pretty good.

Edited by Hawkeye77, 02 December 2018 - 10:25 AM.

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#65 FourTops

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 11:04 AM

 Hawkeye77, on 02 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

 Obee, on 01 December 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.

I agree that using a pitching wedge for shots of all sorts will make you a better player in the long run. However that strategy is severely limited when you play a tough, tournament set up golf course with tucked pins and firm, fast greens.

There will be pins you simply cannot go at with PW from 90 yards, especially to elevated greens if they are firm.

And to echo Obee in a slightly different way, many of us who can't manufacture all the shots we need with one club and don't play tournament setups find it a lot easier to find the wedge shots we need in a combination of different lofts and bounces.

I don't think because someone uses a 60 degree for everything inside 80 yards and finds success means an argument against what works for others.

Way too much chance of too much spin, other errors for me trying to hit a 60 degree 80 yards and I tossed mine out in favor of a 58 degree a couple of years ago and haven't missed it at all, but it's rare I'm taking a "full cut" (not meaning "full" swing) with a 58 degree wedge.  75-80 yards is a perfect, controlled 54 for me, why would I swing harder and spin more and come in higher or lefter or shorter with a 60?  That's what the 60 introduces into that equation for me.

So many variables, and for me a combination of wedges helps me sort through them easier, if that means I'm lacking talent, lol, so be it, but sometimes I get my ball around pretty good.

Yeah, I'm not saying to not play multiple wedges, I'm just pointing out some options that maybe others would like to try.  I tend to agree on the 60* though, I'm thinking of moving to a 58.  And yes, there's no doubt a 90 yard PW requires more thought than say a 56*, but for me, the 56 requires a longer swing that can introduce less control.  I don't know, I go back and forth on this but lately the PW seems more effective due to consistent use for all kinds of shots.


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#66 cb24

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 12:46 PM

I didnít get a chance to read all the comments above me but, I think the key to great wedge success is to find your 100 or even 80 yard club and use the for most wedge shots inside of 100 or 80 (talking about from outside of around the green).  I practiced all kids of shots with my wedge and it 1. Helped me learn how different shots can be played.  2. Gave me a ton of confidence.  When I have a shot that is 60 yards, I can confidently go right at the pin, and trust that the ball will go where I planned because of the practice.

I struggle with hitting the ball too low at times (due to swaying ) but since you hit your wedges really high itís highly unlikely swaying is your problem.   My handicap is only a 3.9 right now, but I was down to +2.5 and wedges were my strength (still are good but breaking a wrist and tearing ligaments the other have set me back).   The other thing i think is worth trying (May not be for everyone) donít be afraid to try a little forward press in your wedge shots.  Good luck with your game and that wedge play

Edited by cb24, 02 December 2018 - 01:05 PM.


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#67 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 03:18 PM

Really interesting seeing all the different opinions here. Last week I was able to get on the gc2 and did a gapping test. For those interested here are the results. I plan to do this once a week from now until the season starts and chart my progress.

https://i.imgur.com/3o7JvvO.png
https://i.imgur.com/VbQ3SlE.png
https://i.imgur.com/6Srk1Bs.png
https://i.imgur.com/sIn2K7c.png
https://i.imgur.com/bQcU4Lx.png
https://i.imgur.com/aF1HDq0.png
https://i.imgur.com/S0qVwPM.png
https://i.imgur.com/0Lh4YBa.png
https://i.imgur.com/O6mlMqA.png

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#68 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 03:34 PM

Hereís a vid as well:

https://youtu.be/SuHePXM-UnE

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#69 Hawkeye77

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 04:20 PM

No expert but looks pretty in sync to me!
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#70 bladehunter

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:06 PM

 FourTops, on 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "Iím a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.

lol.  Very possible.  Iíve never been higher than a 5.  Ever and am usually 0-1 and I had putting issues so bad I lagged 8 footers with no intent to make.  You can be really bad at one thing. Especially if you compartmentalize your game into sections like I do. Driver  ,irons ,full wedges ,putting ,3 wood and shortgame are all sections for me.

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#71 bladehunter

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:13 PM

 Obee, on 01 December 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.

I agree that using a pitching wedge for shots of all sorts will make you a better player in the long run. However that strategy is severely limited when you play a tough, tournament set up golf course with tucked pins and firm, fast greens.

There will be pins you simply cannot go at with PW from 90 yards, especially to elevated greens if they are firm.

Agree. The true answer is to be in tune with all your wedges.  As the in tune description of the pw ..... you can get there with all of them.  Some people like 3 some 4.  I go back and forth. But the one thing for sure is that I donít hit only full shots with either.  In fact it has to be the right scnerio for me to hit a full wedge.  I have no issue applying spin.  So a feel knockdown fade that spins right is my go to with any wedge.  If I go up top I have a fade or a draw and I know that fade is 4 yards less and itís coming back.  The draw will fly and stop.  Those 3 trajs and shapes are more than enough to get at any pin .

Edited by bladehunter, 02 December 2018 - 06:14 PM.

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#72 FourTops

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:47 PM

 bladehunter, on 02 December 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

 Obee, on 01 December 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 01 December 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

 jslane57, on 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

 sleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...

Interesting how we all approach the short game.  I went from a bunch of wedges to using the PW all the way to 80 yards, then 60* thereafter.  What I found was I "got to know" my PW very well for feel shots vs. thinking should I hit a 52, 56, etc.  I kinda follow Hogan's logic of using one club which is why the Hogan PW had an "E" instead of "PW".  The "Equalizer".  Laser?  I guess why not, but I find I get too jiggy trying to hit 43.7 yards vs. an area.

I agree that using a pitching wedge for shots of all sorts will make you a better player in the long run. However that strategy is severely limited when you play a tough, tournament set up golf course with tucked pins and firm, fast greens.

There will be pins you simply cannot go at with PW from 90 yards, especially to elevated greens if they are firm.

Agree. The true answer is to be in tune with all your wedges.  As the in tune description of the pw ..... you can get there with all of them.  Some people like 3 some 4.  I go back and forth. But the one thing for sure is that I don't hit only full shots with either.  In fact it has to be the right scnerio for me to hit a full wedge.  I have no issue applying spin.  So a feel knockdown fade that spins right is my go to with any wedge.  If I go up top I have a fade or a draw and I know that fade is 4 yards less and it's coming back.  The draw will fly and stop.  Those 3 trajs and shapes are more than enough to get at any pin .

Probably a "rotational" thing with wedges for folks.  60*...no 58*...then maybe 56*...then not...then maybe 52* and 60*.  Like you, I rarely hit a full wedge...just doesn't feel right to me.  For my 90-135 yard shots I'll use the PW.  But to be honest, I do look at the 52 in my bag and consider changing, but I just don't have a good gauge of how far it will go on precision shots.  I know it will be up to around 110-115, but from 100 i probably haven't relied upon it enough to feel comfortable. You guys might be right that using the PW is probably making it harder for me, not easier.

12

#73 cb24

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:18 PM

 Ralphyboy84, on 02 December 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

Hereís a vid as well:

https://youtu.be/SuHePXM-UnE

This is just based on that one video but it looks like your tempo motion and everything is hitting a 4 iron not a wedge.  I have always struggled with hitting too hard at the ball with all my club and probably still do with my wedges, but there is definitely more finesse in my wedge shots.  Itís not just trying to compress the ball, itís executing a smooth shot.  Maybe try to bring some finesse into your wedge shots, if you go at it full bore on everyone you will probably have a difficult time not hitting a full wedge shot, even if you use the clock system.

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#74 glk

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 04:01 PM

Here's Seickmann's technique (Tyler teaches this too, and others probably do to).   A chip is just a shorter version - and a longer pitch may have a bit wider stance and just a longer arm swing (or use a different wedge) - the idea is the same though, the upper body/chest supplies the power, sternum is setup pointing in front of the ball, can have bit more weight on lead foot.      



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#75 cb24

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 06:02 PM

 glk, on 03 December 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

Here's Seickmann's technique (Tyler teaches this too, and others probably do to).   A chip is just a shorter version - and a longer pitch may have a bit wider stance and just a longer arm swing (or use a different wedge) - the idea is the same though, the upper body/chest supplies the power, sternum is setup pointing in front of the ball, can have bit more weight on lead foot.      



That video brings up another good point making sure to be target focused not ball focused


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#76 FourTops

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 09:58 PM

 cb24, on 03 December 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

 glk, on 03 December 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

Here's Seickmann's technique (Tyler teaches this too, and others probably do to).   A chip is just a shorter version - and a longer pitch may have a bit wider stance and just a longer arm swing (or use a different wedge) - the idea is the same though, the upper body/chest supplies the power, sternum is setup pointing in front of the ball, can have bit more weight on lead foot.   



That video brings up another good point making sure to be target focused not ball focused

Good video....too steep is a great point, and will work for some...but it skips the fact that many folks aren't too steep.  Many folks engage their right hand early and don't keep their weight moving to the left side....they STOP and the right hand digs a new sprinkler line.

Edited by FourTops, 03 December 2018 - 10:02 PM.


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#77 Obee

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 12:01 AM

Watch Sieckmann teach. He is an absolute master.

The sternum is a huge key to better wedge play for guys who hit the ball too high with their wedges. Most guys who hit their wedges too high set up horribly from the get go....
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#78 A.Princey

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 01:10 AM

For me, wedge play is all about feel and playing enough golf to retain that feel. I also implement several different swing types to generate the right gapping and distance control. I vary my stance and wrist hinge to get a similar "feel/effort" per swing, but the results are actually different distances. I would say, develop a 1/3 to 1/2 swing with very little wrist hinge(I hold a good amount of shaft lean from address and change very little during swing), it'll probably feel like a punch shot at times, and find your yardages with all your wedges. This should alleviate some pain and guessing right away, then add varying degrees of lower body involvement to fine tune the high and low end distances for each. I tend to narrow my stance when I want a little bit less out of the shot, it keeps my backswing shorter. Ymmv

Edited by A.Princey, 05 December 2018 - 02:44 AM.

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#79 llewol007

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:52 PM

I take the Graham McDowell approach and always have two ways to approach a green from 100 yards and in. First is the clock approach like you said and the other is opening the face of the sandwedge based on distance.
The clock approach for me is when I want to knock down a shot to a Pin that is middle to middle back were I can get away with a little release after the ball lands. Now the error that most have with the clock approach is actually going by the position of the head of the club. That is the mistake you might be feeling. Actually when doing knock down shots, and this will take a good session on the golf course, is to go by the position of your hands. For me when I play yardages of 90 yards and in, I play head height, shoulder height and hip height. The release or follow through is always the same. But knowing where your hand is in reference to a position is actually easier than figuring out where the head is. Best for knock down shots.
The second type shot is the high soft landing shot. This is where I incorporate the same full swing again but utilize the face depending on the shot. The way I approached various yardages is to start at the max yardage for the wedge at standard setup. For me, using my 58 degree wedge, I started at 95 yard. From there I open my face just by a little turn of the grip. Take my full swing and now I have my 85 yard shot. I walk in another 10 yards to 75 and turn my wedge open even more and take the same full swing. I do that till I'm right at about 50 yards. Takes a little bit of practice but once you have that established, now you have two ways to approach the green from 100 yards in. Best to practice on the course when the course has died down and you can drop a couple of balls down at various yardages. Hope that helps.

Edited by llewol007, 05 December 2018 - 07:54 PM.

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