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Wedge help


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#31 GolfTurkey

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:18 PM

View PostMikey5e, on 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

You struggle getting the ball on the green and struggle with wedge play, and are still a +1 handicap?

Not that rare. There is a +1 at my club whose putting stinks. Shortish hitter, almost never misses a fairway, great wedge player and his putting sucks so he mostly pars his way around.


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#32 jslane57

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:19 PM

View PostMikey5e, on 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

You struggle getting the ball on the green and struggle with wedge play, and are still a +1 handicap?
If you hit a lot of fairways and greens, you simply don't hit many wedges.

I like where Obee is going on this thread. Being able to truly control the trajectory of your wedges is where good wedge play begins. Some pretty darn good golfers have spent like zero time on this practice...

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#33 FourTops

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:19 PM

View PostMikey5e, on 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

You struggle getting the ball on the green and struggle with wedge play, and are still a +1 handicap?

My point exactly.  To be a 1 and have trouble with shorter wedge shots means he's hitting the green with longer irons about every time.  That flies in the face of common sense.  Just sounds like an "I'm bored...I'll post a thread" comment from a high capper to get some feedback.   Sorry OP, just not buying it.

But I will leave you with this:  If true...your solution is to hit shorter drives to avoid 100-ish shots.

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#34 FourTops

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM

View Postfinleysg, on 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 27 November 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "I’m a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.
lol, I was thinking on similar lines. How can a +1 handicap golfer have a hard time getting the ball on the green? And how can a +1 handicap who can't get it on the green, also struggling with wedge play, be a +1 handicap? I hope your wedge play improves!

I play with a really strong player who has similar issues with wedges. He generates so much effortless speed, but with wedges that hurts him. Hits them way too high with too much spin.

I've never...ever seen a scratch golfer who struggles with wedges.  In fact, it's the opposite, they can land about any wedge shot within makeable putting distance on a consistent basis.  No 1+ has a lousy wedge game.  The only factor I can possibly think of is the OP plays very easy courses.

Edited by FourTops, 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM.


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#35 Obee

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

I’d blade it Obee!

Result would be a low, long wedge shot.

Nobody asked you!!! ;-)

Ha!!  Love it!!

I am interested to see where you go with this though. I think I know, but I’m looking forward to *knowing*.

How 'bout "meta-know"???

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#36 b.helts

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:45 PM

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

Iíd blade it Obee!

Result would be a low, long wedge shot.

Nobody asked you!!! ;-)

Ha!!  Love it!!

I am interested to see where you go with this though. I think I know, but Iím looking forward to *knowing*.

How 'bout "meta-know"???

Iím already meta-aware, somewhere. Just need to become self-aware.

Then Iíll know know. If you know what I mean.

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#37 FourTops

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:53 PM

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:45 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

I'd blade it Obee!

Result would be a low, long wedge shot.

Nobody asked you!!! ;-)

Ha!!  Love it!!

I am interested to see where you go with this though. I think I know, but I'm looking forward to *knowing*.

How 'bout "meta-know"???

I'm already meta-aware, somewhere. Just need to become self-aware.

Then I'll know know. If you know what I mean.

b.helts...you need to seriously consider that you're becoming metacentric.  If you take some time, study metallurgy combined with metacarpal movement and you'll find that your driver will become more metastable.

BWAHHAHHAHAH

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#38 Obee

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:38 PM

So my goal, obviously, is not, "to have you hit your wedges as far as possible."

I will say, though, that the overwhelming majority of scratchish (or below) players I know who struggle with wedge play, do so because they hit the ball TOO HIGH.

There is an axiom that I find to be almost universally true: Tour pros hit their drivers much higher than people would expect, and their wedges much lower than people would expect.

If you hit your wedges high, learn to flight your ball lower and you will, almost unequivocally, become a better wedge player.

In the beginning, it will feel like you are hitting them 10 feet off the ground, and that is OK. You won't believe how quickly they stop even though the ball seemingly barely gets above your shoe laces...


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#39 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 03:24 AM

Some of the comments here are utterly hilarious. Iíd post my CONGU handicap certificate which would detail what my home club was. Some of the comments here couldnít be any further from the truth 🤣🤣🤣

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#40 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 03:25 AM

Obee, a friend of mine has commented for years that I donít have the ability to hit a low spinny 70 yard wedge shot. It really does hurt me, especially playing a Links course. Any tips you could give to help me flight my wedges better would be greatly appreciated


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#41 dg_1983

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 05:42 AM

What course do you play buddy? Ignore the +1 blah blah blah posts - nothing wrong with analysing a weakness and improving.
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#42 Nard_S

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 08:08 AM

View PostRalphyboy84, on 28 November 2018 - 03:25 AM, said:

Obee, a friend of mine has commented for years that I don't have the ability to hit a low spinny 70 yard wedge shot. It really does hurt me, especially playing a Links course. Any tips you could give to help me flight my wedges better would be greatly appreciated

You want to practice the "stinger" knockdown, one where it launches low but has plenty of spin. Tiger's technique with his 2 iron adapted. The two hardest clubs to get width and shallow are the Wedge and Driver. Practice the stinger with an 8 iron, and move it down to wedge. Losing width is deemed acceptable because of the inherent steepness of setup, so it takes more effort to swing with more \___/ pattern than a V pattern. A flattened hand/club path with the late lag hand release gets desired results.

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#43 Hawkeye77

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 08:08 AM

View PostFourTops, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

View Postfinleysg, on 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 27 November 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "I’m a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.
lol, I was thinking on similar lines. How can a +1 handicap golfer have a hard time getting the ball on the green? And how can a +1 handicap who can't get it on the green, also struggling with wedge play, be a +1 handicap? I hope your wedge play improves!

I play with a really strong player who has similar issues with wedges. He generates so much effortless speed, but with wedges that hurts him. Hits them way too high with too much spin.

I've never...ever seen a scratch golfer who struggles with wedges.  In fact, it's the opposite, they can land about any wedge shot within makeable putting distance on a consistent basis.  No 1+ has a lousy wedge game.  The only factor I can possibly think of is the OP plays very easy courses.

Given he's established a handicap in Scotland, I think the circumstances/rules under which he posts and plays would suggest his handicap is pretty reliable and other parts of his game pretty darn strong.  And not saying this is true, but maybe wedges are a real struggle for the OP but maybe it's not quite as awful as he thinks because he's a . . .  . . golfer, and therefore pretty hard on himself.

Didn't Dustin Johnson after years of being a top professional take his game to another level by dedicating himself to getting better with his wedge play?
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#44 Mikey5e

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 08:58 AM

I guess the OP 1 putts every green. He's got to, to be a +1.

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#45 Nard_S

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 09:28 AM

I'll say one more thing and then take a seat. :)

By far my wedge is most solid club, I work on it a lot, I enjoy it.  The big thing I noticed and something not often mentioned is that Pro's utilize shoulder rotation much more on little shots than the Joe's do. They get their trail shoulder to the target with more authority in the same way they do on full swing. .See Tiger and Spieth as prime examples of this. When we start this game, we are advised to chip like we're putting. We seek clock positions to gauge distance. This stuff is too hand/arm centric and devolves, retards upper body rotation to detriment. When you replicate what the best do, you'll see a better quality of contact and control. Much better The hard part is bringing it to the fore & getting it all automatic.Cheers.


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#46 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 07:29 PM

For many years, I avoided leaving a ball inside 100 yds because I wasn't comfortable with judging partial shots. I finally decided last year that I was going to get control of my game. I chose the "clock" method, but apply it to my left arm instead of the shaft. My left arm position on a full shot is 10 o'clock. I documented distances with all clubs from there down to 6:30. Knowing I needed to be able to control spin (amount of release), I started out making the same abreviated swing with every club from LW to 7i. I hit about 15 balls with each and documented the average distance and rollout. I then did this all over again choking down 1",  placing the ball 2" forward and choking down while placing the ball 2" forward. Once I had all that info, I wrote it all down in a book that I keep in my pocket when playing. I don't have to remember anything, I only look at the shot I have and refer to my book and go. Of course, I have to make slight adjustments for turf firmness and green speed, but that's about it. This has given me tons of confidence in my game.

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#47 FourTops

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 08:50 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 28 November 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

View Postfinleysg, on 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 27 November 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "I’m a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.
lol, I was thinking on similar lines. How can a +1 handicap golfer have a hard time getting the ball on the green? And how can a +1 handicap who can't get it on the green, also struggling with wedge play, be a +1 handicap? I hope your wedge play improves!

I play with a really strong player who has similar issues with wedges. He generates so much effortless speed, but with wedges that hurts him. Hits them way too high with too much spin.

I've never...ever seen a scratch golfer who struggles with wedges.  In fact, it's the opposite, they can land about any wedge shot within makeable putting distance on a consistent basis.  No 1+ has a lousy wedge game.  The only factor I can possibly think of is the OP plays very easy courses.

Given he's established a handicap in Scotland, I think the circumstances/rules under which he posts and plays would suggest his handicap is pretty reliable and other parts of his game pretty darn strong.  And not saying this is true, but maybe wedges are a real struggle for the OP but maybe it's not quite as awful as he thinks because he's a . . .  . . golfer, and therefore pretty hard on himself.

Didn't Dustin Johnson after years of being a top professional take his game to another level by dedicating himself to getting better with his wedge play?

I don't know....it just sounds weird.  I can see 20-30-40 yard shots over traps from tough lies...but I picture a fairway wedge from 60+ and can't  understand why a full swing 60* or PW is harder.

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#48 OakLawnGolfPro

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:54 PM

Pick your area you want to get good at.  Using that quad, start dialing in your AOA, because even if you’re on a clock system, if your AOA differs you’ll have issues with control and direction.

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#49 dg_1983

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 02:50 AM

Can't believe folks are judging someone who wants to improve his wedge game. We all know this game is relative.

Some would kill for my crappy short 280yard driving or my crappy 20foot  average from 100 yards.

Maybe he is just happy to hit the green? But maybe he does alot, but just not close enough?

When a plus 1 guy says they are struggling, I doubt very much it's skulls thru the green or 5 yard chunks.

I'd be interested in the handicaps of the "how can a +1 struggle with wedges" commenters. Anyone with sense can understand we all have our struggles at all levels
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#50 FourTops

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:30 PM

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 11:38 PM, said:

So my goal, obviously, is not, "to have you hit your wedges as far as possible."

I will say, though, that the overwhelming majority of scratchish (or below) players I know who struggle with wedge play, do so because they hit the ball TOO HIGH.

There is an axiom that I find to be almost universally true: Tour pros hit their drivers much higher than people would expect, and their wedges much lower than people would expect.

If you hit your wedges high, learn to flight your ball lower and you will, almost unequivocally, become a better wedge player.

In the beginning, it will feel like you are hitting them 10 feet off the ground, and that is OK. You won't believe how quickly they stop even though the ball seemingly barely gets above your shoe laces...

Aww come on now.  Nicklaus hit giant high fades to greens!...but I hear you.  I play with a guy who drives the ball well over 300...but his 140 and in shots...and especially wedge play....SUCKS!  I'm more accurate from 180 with my grandpa hybrid.  But after watching him for many years...here's what I think is going on...and maybe this will help someone.

His right hand snaps HARD at the ball on the driver (I believe gives him great distance).  But on his iron shots that same right hand is a nemesis...meaning it STILL flips HARD and iron shots can go about anywhere...even from 100 yard shots.  I have seen shots so high we laugh....and that also happens with his 2* hybrid...rainballs!   And if he tries to hit a lower PWs....he looks awkward because his right hand doesn't have a clue about what to do and there's zero control.  His whole swing is built around killing the driver which actually is a huge minus for the rest of his game.

My favorite club from 130 on down to 80 is my PW.  I espouse to Hogan's philosophy of using "one club", the Equalizer, for most all shots.  I'm not quite there because I'll use a 60* from 80 and in...but you get my point.


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#51 glk

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    send it in jerome

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 07:57 AM

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?
Probably not the exact answer to your question but the PGA tour stats page has accuracy/gir from different distances both on approach and around the green.
Here's the link   https://www.pgatour....s.RARG_INQ.html

Do you swing your wedges like your full shots?    Wedge technique is different than full shots - not after power, shaft lean, looking to hit it low with more spin versus high with less spin.    The sequence is more like  an intentional cast than one to deliver power.

Edited by glk, 30 November 2018 - 08:01 AM.


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#52 finleysg

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:15 AM

View Postglk, on 30 November 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?
Probably not the exact answer to your question but the PGA tour stats page has accuracy/gir from different distances both on approach and around the green.
Here's the link   https://www.pgatour....s.RARG_INQ.html

Do you swing your wedges like your full shots? Wedge technique is different than full shots - not after power, shaft lean, looking to hit it low with more spin versus high with less spin. The sequence is more like  an intentional cast than one to deliver power.

Do you do that even for longer wedges? The cutoff for me is around 25 yds. Outside of that, it's still a pretty normal shot, just a lot shorter.
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#53 glk

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    send it in jerome

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:35 AM

View Postfinleysg, on 30 November 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

View Postglk, on 30 November 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?
Probably not the exact answer to your question but the PGA tour stats page has accuracy/gir from different distances both on approach and around the green.
Here's the link   https://www.pgatour....s.RARG_INQ.html

Do you swing your wedges like your full shots? Wedge technique is different than full shots - not after power, shaft lean, looking to hit it low with more spin versus high with less spin. The sequence is more like  an intentional cast than one to deliver power.

Do you do that even for longer wedges? The cutoff for me is around 25 yds. Outside of that, it's still a pretty normal shot, just a lot shorter.
Yes. I typically hit my PW 130 on full shots but when I'm pitching it's my 100 yard club.
I should note that cast to me means I'm straightening the trail arm early and sequencing the body and arms closer together versus the lower leading - not the cast where one is throwing the club head from the top.    Can see this is Andrew's video's below.    Leads to a shallow AOA.     I also like to feel like my trail shoulder stays higher than when I'm taking a full swing.  

Andrew Rice has some good videos on wedge play.   As well as other teachers.   

Here's one on his technque basics as well as one working with student.



Edited by glk, 30 November 2018 - 08:53 AM.


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#54 andrue

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:42 AM

I still struggle with partial swings. My solution was to buy a 64* wedge because even with a full swing that only goes 60 yards :)

I have a goal in the new year to finally get to grips with the click method. That and sorting out my chipping should reduce my scores nicely.

Edited by andrue, 30 November 2018 - 08:45 AM.

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#55 wkuo3

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:19 AM

View PostRalphyboy84, on 26 November 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Hi guys looking for some feedback on my wedge play.

My wedge play is by far and away the weakest part of my game. I'm a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards, never mind close. I'm trying to work hard at it this winter and have come up with the following idea.

Essentially I am trying to perfect a shot that will go 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 yards. I've been working on this the last few weeks know (luckily I have access to a gc quad) and I'm seeing some really good results that have translated quite well to the course. I struggle a bit of the 40 and 50 yard shots but with a bit of practice I'm confident I'll get there.

My thinking behind the 10 yard gapping is once I have that nailed down I should hopefully be able to grip down the club to knock a few yards off a shot.

Does this sound like a sensible idea to people? Does anyone have any suggestions? How do people here work on their wedge gapping?

If anyone is interested my shots are as follows:

40 - half 58
50 - half 54
60 - half 50, 3/4 58
70 - 3/4 54
80 - 3/4 50, full 58
90 - full 54
100 - full 50


You're thinking like a rocket scientist plotting the details of landing on Mars.

Take a shag bag and go to one of the practice area, mark off the distance you wish to pitch from, practice the different shots.  May that be a high lob, running .....direction control.... different lie condition....... until you feel comfortable of performing under all situations.  Of course you'll still have a few weaker sides but that's normal.
If you're really into the game , do all of that again with a single wedge, pitch to different distance and with different trajectory... that's the ultimate of wedge play.

A boxed solution works well with the formula, but you're not a robot, practice like a robot will not stand up to the tournament pressure, because ?   You're not faultless !


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#56 finleysg

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:59 AM

View Postglk, on 30 November 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

View Postfinleysg, on 30 November 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

View Postglk, on 30 November 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?
Probably not the exact answer to your question but the PGA tour stats page has accuracy/gir from different distances both on approach and around the green.
Here's the link   https://www.pgatour....s.RARG_INQ.html

Do you swing your wedges like your full shots? Wedge technique is different than full shots - not after power, shaft lean, looking to hit it low with more spin versus high with less spin. The sequence is more like  an intentional cast than one to deliver power.

Do you do that even for longer wedges? The cutoff for me is around 25 yds. Outside of that, it's still a pretty normal shot, just a lot shorter.
Yes. I typically hit my PW 130 on full shots but when I'm pitching it's my 100 yard club.
I should note that cast to me means I'm straightening the trail arm early and sequencing the body and arms closer together versus the lower leading - not the cast where one is throwing the club head from the top. Can see this is Andrew's video's below. Leads to a shallow AOA. I also like to feel like my trail shoulder stays higher than when I'm taking a full swing.  

Andrew Rice has some good videos on wedge play.   As well as other teachers.   

Here's one on his technque basics as well as one working with student.




These are really good. I guess I was nit-picking a bit about the casting/sequence part of your response. I'm not sure I see that in anything Andrew talked about.

I'm very much on board with taking a less lofted club. You a little longer than I am with a full swing pitching wedge, but from 100 yards, I love to hit that club. I'll do the same with a 9 iron, too, at about 115.
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#57 GMR

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 10:12 AM

That Andrew Rice video is really interesting.  I've never heard anyone advocate trying to hit a draw on a 50-yard shot.  It makes sense as a feel for this student since he's pretty severely out-in and Andrew's goal is obviously to shallow the strike, but I'm wondering if having a negative spin axis for these types of shots is actually something he advocates across the board?

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#58 glk

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 01:32 PM

View Postglk, on 30 November 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

View Postfinleysg, on 30 November 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

View Postglk, on 30 November 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Probably not the exact answer to your question but the PGA tour stats page has accuracy/gir from different distances both on approach and around the green.
Here's the link   https://www.pgatour....s.RARG_INQ.html

Do you swing your wedges like your full shots? Wedge technique is different than full shots - not after power, shaft lean, looking to hit it low with more spin versus high with less spin. The sequence is more like  an intentional cast than one to deliver power.

Do you do that even for longer wedges? The cutoff for me is around 25 yds. Outside of that, it's still a pretty normal shot, just a lot shorter.
Yes. I typically hit my PW 130 on full shots but when I'm pitching it's my 100 yard club.
I should note that cast to me means I'm straightening the trail arm early and sequencing the body and arms closer together versus the lower leading - not the cast where one is throwing the club head from the top. Can see this is Andrew's video's below. Leads to a shallow AOA. I also like to feel like my trail shoulder stays higher than when I'm taking a full swing.  

Andrew Rice has some good videos on wedge play.   As well as other teachers.   

Here's one on his technque basics as well as one working with student.



These are really good. I guess I was nit-picking a bit about the casting/sequence part of your response. I'm not sure I see that in anything Andrew talked about.

I'm very much on board with taking a less lofted club. You a little longer than I am with a full swing pitching wedge, but from 100 yards, I love to hit that club. I'll do the same with a 9 iron, too, at about 115.
In this video, Tyler's talks about the cast pattern.   Finesse wedge is 30 yards and in - distance is 30-100.  Much more on it from his pay site.



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#59 sleezyt

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.

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#60 jslane57

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 05:34 PM

View Postsleezyt, on 30 November 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

My capp is a 0.6 and im terrible from 95 and in. Anything inside a full lob wedge im very bad in relation to my capp. Doesnt mean i dont ever stiff wedges but im very inconsistent. I can hit a 50 yard shot to 3 ft or 30 would like to tighten that up. I prefer the feel approach or trying to judge shots like i was throwing a ball. Instinctive.
I've always preferred to be instinctive at the close yardages. I do have a friend who would consistently miss long or short, to the point that after hitting the 3/4 wedge he sometimes wouldn't know if it was 30 feet long or 10 feet short till it landed. So he got a ton better by using a rangefinder for inside 100 yards. Knowing the exact yardage to the pin (68 yards instead of a guess of 75 yards) makes a bid difference, especially these days of 4 or 5 wedges. I've been a PW/56 only guy for a long time, but if I decide to dive into 4 wedges I will certainly start breaking out the range finder at much closer yardages as LW distance control is just not instinctual to me...


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