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Wedge help


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#1 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 06:37 PM

Hi guys looking for some feedback on my wedge play.

My wedge play is by far and away the weakest part of my game. I知 a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards, never mind close. I知 trying to work hard at it this winter and have come up with the following idea.

Essentially I am trying to perfect a shot that will go 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 yards. I致e been working on this the last few weeks know (luckily I have access to a gc quad) and I知 seeing some really good results that have translated quite well to the course. I struggle a bit of the 40 and 50 yard shots but with a bit of practice I知 confident I値l get there.

My thinking behind the 10 yard gapping is once I have that nailed down I should hopefully be able to grip down the club to knock a few yards off a shot.

Does this sound like a sensible idea to people? Does anyone have any suggestions? How do people here work on their wedge gapping?

If anyone is interested my shots are as follows:

40 - half 58
50 - half 54
60 - half 50, 3/4 58
70 - 3/4 54
80 - 3/4 50, full 58
90 - full 54
100 - full 50


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#2 Moshjean

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 07:06 PM

I never got on with the clock method or specific swing length for 10 yard increments, but different strokes for different folks.

I will say that wedge play is by far the strength of my game, and I can contribute that to two factors.

1. A good technique that works for you.

The aforementioned techniques required to much thinking during my shots, and I play much better when I can stand confidently over the ball and just swing. I play all wedge shots under a 100 yards like a ball toss. My feel is that my right hand is tossing the clubhead towards the target and the ball just gets in the way.. Utilizing the bounce is big too.

2. Purposeful practice.

I spend 50-60% of my range time hitting wedges. One of my favorite ranges has faux greens and large buckets scattered all over from 10 yards to 120 yards. I’ll spend a solid 30 minutes rotating between them every shot. It keeps the wedge game sharp and replicates the different shots you’ll have on the course.

Good luck! You’re obviously a very good golfer and I’m sure you’ll sort this out.
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#3 FourTops

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "I’m a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.

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#4 marcwhu

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 01:45 AM

View PostFourTops, on 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "I知 a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.
This is pretty possible actually. I play to a. +0.9 and my proximity on shots 120-40 yds are pretty bad. However, I drive it pretty long, putt pretty well and chip it good from inside of 20yds. That tends to equal a lot of birdies on Par 5s. So definitely feasible to maintain a plus cap with a this particular weakness (although not recommended)

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#5 dg_1983

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:45 AM

That structure is very similar to mine. If you are confident in your technique it boils down to practice and get closer to the point that you KNOW this one is gonna go 60ish or this one is going to go 90ish. You will find the structure fades a little as "feel" takes over. What I mean by this is, it doesn't really matter if my half 58 is half, or the 3/4 58 is 3/4. What matters is I have a feel for each yardage and consistent results.

I have a 20min skytrak routine I try to use 3 or 4 times a week. 3 balls at 50,60,70,80,90,100,110,120,130,140. Get a score at the end based on proximity, work on bringing that down. They recently introduced a randomize feature with min and max distance ranges. Setting that at 50 and 140 gives one ball one yardage which is probably the best type of practice once you feel you are reasonable dialed in. I wouldn't start here as the random yardages will have you second guessing if you dont have those 10 yard gaps reasonablely nailed.

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#6 GMR

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 05:23 AM

Instead of trying to find a shot for those arbitrary yardages just take your wedges and make note of how far your comfortable swings (half, quarter, whatever as long as they are repeatable) carry with each club, and the trajectory and spin it comes in with. Work on just making those distances as consistent as possible. Then find some repeatable adjustments you can make--choke up an inch, open/close the face 5 or 10 degrees, etc. Find which adjustments are most consistent and then you'll have all the tools you need. When you are facing that 63yd shot next time you won't have to manufacture a perfect 60yder, you can choose between maybe the quarter gap wedge with an open face that carries 62-5=57 with some release, or the half lw choked up an inch (68-6=62) that tends to take one hop and stop quick. Making up the numbers here but the point is once you know how to make a repeatable swing and what that's likely to do you can be creative with it instead of just trying to hit a specific arbitrary yardage.

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#7 dg_1983

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:43 AM

While I agree with this, I think its a bit strong saying 10 yard increments from 50 -140 are arbitrary yardages. Every golfer faces shots within 5 yards of one of these yardages every single round on almost every single hole of golf.

If you have these gaps nailed you have a very comprehension armory for hitting greens.

Whether you get there by trying to hit a yardage or get there by hitting stock shots and adjusting - same result - being able to hit these numbers within a reasonable proximity.
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#8 Santiago Golf

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:00 AM

Focus the majority of your practice hitting 40, then 50, 60, 70, 80 with your 9i, pw, gw. If you make good contact you will have ample spin. Learn to control your length of swing
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#9 macedan

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:01 AM

I never got on board with 10 yard increments. My wedge game is strong despite my handicap, yet it is all feel. These stock yardages might be good on level playing ground to a level green, but they don't necessarily incorporate the variety of shot locations you will encounter. Depending on the condition I may play my 50 for any of those yardages or my 58 for half of those.

Wedges are an art and, for me anyhow, trying to dial in the length of a shot down to specific lengths in swing really throws me off. Sure, I will make 1/2, 3/4, whatever swings, but I don't think I about it. Analyze the lie and you might find instead of making a stock shot/pitch with a different swing length you may have to adjust ball position and face angle with a more or less lofted wedge.
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#10 GMR

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:43 AM

View Postdg_1983, on 27 November 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

While I agree with this, I think its a bit strong saying 10 yard increments from 50 -140 are arbitrary yardages. Every golfer faces shots within 5 yards of one of these yardages every single round on almost every single hole of golf.

If you have these gaps nailed you have a very comprehension armory for hitting greens.

Whether you get there by trying to hit a yardage or get there by hitting stock shots and adjusting - same result - being able to hit these numbers within a reasonable proximity.
This is true and definitely a step in the right direction, but the problem is that if you have only one shot that is your "60-yard shot" and one shot that is your "70-yard shot," it can be hard to to be creative to get to the funny inbetween yardages, and even harder when you need to take the conditions such as wind, elevation, and slope of the green into account.

For example, let's say you groove your 80-yard shot to be your 3/4 lob wedge, and you're then faced with an 83-yard shot to a back pin sitting on a green that slopes severely back-to-front.  If that's the only shot you know how to hit 80 yards you're pretty much hosed, as it will be hard to control spin on that long of a LW swing, and landing on an upslope your stock shot is going to pitch short of the flag and probably then roll back down into the middle of the green.  Knowing that you're almost certainly going to miss the shot short, you could of course add a little more to it, but that a) increases the spin on the shot and therefore probably doesn't change the result and b) brings missing the green long into play if you happen to get a little too much on top of it.

If you instead have a few stock swings with each club that you know how far they are going to go, and have the ability to adjust those a bit with some consistency you just have so many more options.  In the above example, maybe you scrap the "3/4" LW idea and instead hit the "1/4" GW which also carries around 80 and would normally release out 5-10 yards, but in this case since you're pitching into an upslope you'll instead expect a couple hops and stop and actually have a chance to get it close (note the quotes are just because those are my feels, it doesn't really matter how you classify those shots as long as you can pull them off consistently).


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#11 Nard_S

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:16 PM

I use a 55* from 90 yards in exclusively and  think too many wedges is being too smart by a half. From 90 to 125 open up to several options but rely on face,trajectory and feel to dial in yardages in the red zone of short game. Might be of benefit to you to KISS and just work one club, there's less calculus going on and less clubs to master. You might work the problem faster.

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#12 GMR

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:21 PM

View PostNard_S, on 27 November 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

I use a 55* from 90 yards in exclusively and  think too many wedges is being too smart by a half. From 90 to 125 open up to several options but rely on face,trajectory and feel to dial in yardages in the red zone of short game. Might be of benefit to you to KISS and just work one club, there's less calculus going on and less clubs to master. You might work the problem faster.
If that works for you great. For me that is actually making it a lot more complicated because then you have to learn all different length swings to hit that club many different distances. I have only 3 swings to choose from (shaft parallel or 1/4, arm parallel or 1/2, and soft full or 3/4) and I just make one of those swings and let the club selection take care of the rest. Much less effort to groove and maintain for me, but to each his own.

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#13 Nard_S

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:54 PM

View PostGMR, on 27 November 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 27 November 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

I use a 55* from 90 yards in exclusively and  think too many wedges is being too smart by a half. From 90 to 125 open up to several options but rely on face,trajectory and feel to dial in yardages in the red zone of short game. Might be of benefit to you to KISS and just work one club, there's less calculus going on and less clubs to master. You might work the problem faster.
If that works for you great. For me that is actually making it a lot more complicated because then you have to learn all different length swings to hit that club many different distances. I have only 3 swings to choose from (shaft parallel or 1/4, arm parallel or 1/2, and soft full or 3/4) and I just make one of those swings and let the club selection take care of the rest. Much less effort to groove and maintain for me, but to each his own.

Yeah,TEHO but It's just as easy, I can derive 2 distances (about 20 yards apart) manipulating face angle alone with the same swing. Throw in a 1" choke down you add 2 more tweeners. .Then all you need is 2 swings (3/4 & 1/2) plus 2 ball positions for turf and landing options.Mechanically I'm working only 2 swings with 2 differing ball positions, that's it. I delegate to setup as much as possible and keep "length of swing" variable to a minimum.

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#14 dg_1983

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 02:06 PM

We are on the same page. I didn't mention about only having on club and swing per yardage, there are of course cross over. For example, 80 yards is a stock 58 or a 3/4 54 for me. 90yards could be stock 54 in calm conditions, or a stock 58 downwind or a half PW into a 2 club wind but one thing is for sure, I'm confident I can hit 90ish in most conditions.

I think for most folks outside of the elite keeping it simple is the best approach, and 10yard increments is more than fine enough. Infact if a player can hit 10 yard increments I think they aren't far off elite wedge game.

The OP states his wedge game isn't strong. First port of call, get 1 shot dialled in for 10 yard increments. That lets you hit greens with confidence. You can dial it in from there by chocking down, ball position , opening face etc etc but I've yet to play any amatures that are dialled into 5 yard gaps 50-150
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#15 elthrill

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:08 PM

heres something that i see messes with a lot of people on wedge shots under 90 yards or so.  Their perception of the distance versus the actual distance can absolutely wreck your distance control.  Golf courses are designed to play tricks on your eyes.  ive played so many shots that look like 60 yards and are actually 85 yards and vice versa.  there is a high likelihood that im going to chunk that shot, because my subconscience will decelerate my arms.   What i've learned is you have to make trusting the distance part of your preshot routine.  trust your laser or GPS.  take a deep breath and commit and play the shot.  That always been a big problem for me, because I dont use a clock system. I see the target and match my swing to that target.  I have to make sure my eyes and brain are on the same page.


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#16 Nard_S

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:47 PM

View Postdg_1983, on 27 November 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

We are on the same page. I didn't mention about only having on club and swing per yardage, there are of course cross over. For example, 80 yards is a stock 58 or a 3/4 54 for me. 90yards could be stock 54 in calm conditions, or a stock 58 downwind or a half PW into a 2 club wind but one thing is for sure, I'm confident I can hit 90ish in most conditions.

I think for most folks outside of the elite keeping it simple is the best approach, and 10yard increments is more than fine enough. Infact if a player can hit 10 yard increments I think they aren't far off elite wedge game.

The OP states his wedge game isn't strong. First port of call, get 1 shot dialled in for 10 yard increments. That lets you hit greens with confidence. You can dial it in from there by chocking down, ball position , opening face etc etc but I've yet to play any amatures that are dialled into 5 yard gaps 50-150

Nick Faldo said at the top of game he had 15 feet of distance control. That's sobering. So granted their conditions are tougher, but they're less dialed in than ESPN highlights suggest on distance. Where they excel and clean am's clock is controlling the spin and dictating the leave. They choose the quadrant and hedge with trajectory and spin. Distance control is paramount yet there's diminishing returns to ultra dial in. Target choice trajectory, release characteristics is big part of their success.

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#17 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 05:02 PM

Lots of interesting points here.

I like the fact that I have different shots for different yardages at the moment. For example the 1/2 50 and the 3/4 58 both go 60 yards whilst they both have different trajectories and spin.

I tend to agree with dg_1983 that if I can consistently hit 10 yard gaps with various clubs then I should be in a strong position. At the point when I take it to the course it will just then be a case of analysing the lie, the weather, the pin position and play the most appropriate shot.

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#18 Obee

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 05:57 PM

I'm a short and (semi) crooked driver of the ball, but wedge play is a definite strength.

If you had to choose one or the other, do you tend to hit your wedges:
  • Too High and Spinny
  • Too low and with poor contact
  • You're a complete mess and you have no idea where they're going

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#19 Moshjean

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:26 PM

View Postelthrill, on 27 November 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

heres something that i see messes with a lot of people on wedge shots under 90 yards or so.  Their perception of the distance versus the actual distance can absolutely wreck your distance control.  Golf courses are designed to play tricks on your eyes.  ive played so many shots that look like 60 yards and are actually 85 yards and vice versa.  there is a high likelihood that im going to chunk that shot, because my subconscience will decelerate my arms.   What i've learned is you have to make trusting the distance part of your preshot routine.  trust your laser or GPS.  take a deep breath and commit and play the shot.  That always been a big problem for me, because I dont use a clock system. I see the target and match my swing to that target.  I have to make sure my eyes and brain are on the same page.

Knowing the actual yardage should influence club selection, the shot making should be a marriage of your visualization of the shot/target and length/speed of swing.

Wedge shots to me are a lot like ring games at a carnival or tossing bean bags in corn hole.

Edited by Moshjean, 27 November 2018 - 06:27 PM.

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#20 Dan Drake

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:28 PM

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I'm a short and (semi) crooked driver of the ball, but wedge play is a definite strength.

If you had to choose one or the other, do you tend to hit your wedges:
  • Too High and Spinny
  • Too low and with poor contact
  • You're a complete mess and you have no idea where they're going

Not the OP, but I'm definitely in category #3!  :taunt:

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#21 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:37 PM

Definitely hit my wedges too high

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#22 Ralphyboy84

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?

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#23 finleysg

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 07:06 PM

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?

If anyone has that info, it would be Richie Hunt (RichieHunt is the user name).
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#24 Obee

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:49 PM

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another question. Does anyone know what the tour average is for proximity from 40-100 yards with 10 gap intervals or where I could find such info?

Richie can give you better info, but:

The median proximity for tour pros is approximately 6.5% of the distance from the hole, so from 100 yards, the ~90th ranked tour pro will AVERAGE about 20 - 21 feet from 100 yards.

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Definitely hit my wedges too high

Then I can definitely help you. :-)
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#25 finleysg

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM

View Posthybrid25, on 27 November 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 26 November 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I'm kinda not getting your post.  You stated "I’m a +1 handicap who is happy just to get it on the green from within 100 yards".  You can always edit and say you're a +19 and it was a mistake.  Or, you're mixing miniature golf with regular golf.
lol, I was thinking on similar lines. How can a +1 handicap golfer have a hard time getting the ball on the green? And how can a +1 handicap who can't get it on the green, also struggling with wedge play, be a +1 handicap? I hope your wedge play improves!

I play with a really strong player who has similar issues with wedges. He generates so much effortless speed, but with wedges that hurts him. Hits them way too high with too much spin.

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#26 Mikey5e

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:04 PM

You struggle getting the ball on the green and struggle with wedge play, and are still a +1 handicap?

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#27 Obee

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:09 PM

View PostRalphyboy84, on 27 November 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Definitely hit my wedges too high

If I asked you to hit a full SW as far and as low as you possibly could:

a) What would you do to accomplish that?
b) What would the result (likely) be?

Have you ever tried this?
PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
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Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
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Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
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Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
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#28 b.helts

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:12 PM

I壇 blade it Obee!

Result would be a low, long wedge shot.

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#29 Obee

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:13 PM

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

I’d blade it Obee!

Result would be a low, long wedge shot.

Nobody asked you!!! ;-)
PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
Don Wood Custom Grind 51* GW
Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)

29

#30 b.helts

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostObee, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postb.helts, on 27 November 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

I壇 blade it Obee!

Result would be a low, long wedge shot.

Nobody asked you!!! ;-)

Ha!!  Love it!!

I am interested to see where you go with this though. I think I know, but I知 looking forward to *knowing*.


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