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Swing Speed Distance Chart


33 replies to this topic

#1 heavy_hitter

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:16 AM

Posted Image


I have this chart saved on my phone and use it as a resource.  I know it isn't spot on because lofts, spins, etc. are going to be different.  It does give a great referencing point, however.  I think it is interesting that the PGA Tour Average is 113 mph swing speed.


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#2 darter79

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:24 AM

I think some of those are a little inflated. Oddly the irons are pretty close. My kids in the 60-65 range most days.  The irons are only a few yards further than hers but that could be how strong some of the lofts are these days vs us kids more traditional ones.  Where it really gets off is in the woods. Hard to buy a 60 ss getting that kinda of distance. I would love to see 155 total distance but that' not accurate. I know a few kids with very similar swing speeds with similar yardages.

HH how accurate is this for your kids numbers?

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#3 Rosco1216

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:53 AM

It's certainly a little outdated.  Driver and fairways would now be further.  When this chart first came out, for high speed guys, if using more traditional designed irons, the numbers are a little misleading because they don't hit irons "full speed".  Certainly not an average because those numbers would be the max distance you could hit your iron if you went full speed.  Now, with the distance design and stronger lofts of today's irons, these distances are more "stock".
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#4 leezer99

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:53 AM

This is a great jumping off point for most people to reference.

We don't ever measure swing speed unless we go to the local golf shop that has the Foresight launch monitor set up and with that he's not even using his own clubs so who knows.

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#5 Yrrdead

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:05 PM

Pretty close for my daughter at least. As an add on I just saw a blurb about max carry vs loft that I thought was neat for slower swing speeds. It isn't new I just hadn't seen it before.
  • For a 80mph clubhead speed, carry distance is maximized at 16 degrees.
  • For a 60mph clubhead speed, carry distance is maximized at 22 degrees.
I found that interesting , I realize carry isn't everything but still hadn't really thought about it.

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#6 tiger1873

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

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#7 heavy_hitter

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:23 PM

View Postdarter79, on 26 November 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

I think some of those are a little inflated. Oddly the irons are pretty close. My kids in the 60-65 range most days.  The irons are only a few yards further than hers but that could be how strong some of the lofts are these days vs us kids more traditional ones.  Where it really gets off is in the woods. Hard to buy a 60 ss getting that kinda of distance. I would love to see 155 total distance but that' not accurate. I know a few kids with very similar swing speeds with similar yardages.

HH how accurate is this for your kids numbers?

http://www.golfwrx.c...ng-speed-chart/

This explains the chart.

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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:26 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Swing speed is pretty consistent with handicaps.  The higher the swing speed, the better the handicap.

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#9 augustgolf

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:29 PM

BITD - each MPH of swing speed was figured to obtain approx. 2.48 yards....all things being equal, like centerness of strike, etc.

I don't believe that this relative relationship has changed that much. According to the above chart, the 113 MPH average swing speed of the PGA tour would equatae to approx. 280 yards of carry.

Is that really so far off????

With all the changes of the ball, shafts, adjustable weighting in the heads of drivers to optimize launce/trajectory, etc....I would imagine that there needs to be some absolute relating to ball speed and how it equates to distance.

I'll stick to my 2.48 yards/MPH - it seems pretty accurate, and has stood the test of time pretty well.
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#10 heavy_hitter

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:41 PM

View Postaugustgolf, on 26 November 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:



I'll stick to my 2.48 yards/MPH - it seems pretty accurate, and has stood the test of time pretty well.

This explains why this doesn't work.  It does sometimes, but not all the time because that number changes as swing speed changes.

http://www.swingmang...ad-speed-worth/


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#11 iteachgolf

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

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#12 tiger1873

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably be in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour and have huge expenses to stay on tour.    If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

Edited by tiger1873, 27 November 2018 - 09:50 AM.


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#13 iteachgolf

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:56 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour.    If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

They have no trouble reaching greens in regulation.  Youíre not even close to accurate.  Iíve taught on tour for 10 years.  You act like like hitting it 280 all of a sudden makes it impossible to reach greens.  Some of the top players in SG on Approach shots so far are below average in clubhead speed.  There is a player top 12 in SG of the TEE while being well below average in clubhead speed.  Heís also top 16 SG on approach shots and top 10 SG tee to green

Edited by iteachgolf, 27 November 2018 - 10:00 AM.


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#14 darter79

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:23 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably be in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour and have huge expenses to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Where do you get this stuff from? how long did you try to play on tour from? I can list a lot of tour pros who are not long at all but have won majors. Think Zac Johnson who club head speed is only around 105. But the dude can play, has a nice looking green jacket in his closet.

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#15 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:31 AM

View Postdarter79, on 27 November 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably be in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour and have huge expenses to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Where do you get this stuff from? how long did you try to play on tour from? I can list a lot of tour pros who are not long at all but have won majors. Think Zac Johnson who club head speed is only around 105. But the dude can play, has a nice looking green jacket in his closet.

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#16 tiger1873

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM

You

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

They have no trouble reaching greens in regulation.  You're not even close to accurate.  I've taught on tour for 10 years.  You act like like hitting it 280 all of a sudden makes it impossible to reach greens.  Some of the top players in SG on Approach shots so far are below average in clubhead speed.  There is a player top 12 in SG of the TEE while being well below average in clubhead speed.  He's also top 16 SG on approach shots and top 10 SG tee to green

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

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#17 ebrasmus21

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:55 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

You

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

They have no trouble reaching greens in regulation.  You're not even close to accurate.  I've taught on tour for 10 years.  You act like like hitting it 280 all of a sudden makes it impossible to reach greens.  Some of the top players in SG on Approach shots so far are below average in clubhead speed.  There is a player top 12 in SG of the TEE while being well below average in clubhead speed.  He's also top 16 SG on approach shots and top 10 SG tee to green

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

Tell me, how did McDowell do in the US Open?  Did he do okay?
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#18 SoCalTitleist

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:58 AM

My iron distance doesn't match up with my driver swing speed.  my iron distance says off that chart my driver swing speed is 110 when I'm actually in the 105 range.

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#19 iteachgolf

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:05 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

You

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour.    If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

They have no trouble reaching greens in regulation.  You're not even close to accurate.  I've taught on tour for 10 years.  You act like like hitting it 280 all of a sudden makes it impossible to reach greens.  Some of the top players in SG on Approach shots so far are below average in clubhead speed.  There is a player top 12 in SG of the TEE while being well below average in clubhead speed.  He's also top 16 SG on approach shots and top 10 SG tee to green

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

Iím not talking about guys who won 20 years ago. Those stats are from THIS year.  The 7th ranked player in SG and top 10 Tee to Green is 149th in clubhead speed.  Webb Simpson is 167th in CHS and outside the top 150 in distance.   Thereís several more in the top 30 who are below average speed and distance wise.

Iíve taught players whoíve won on every major tour including multiple PGA Tour winners. One of my players climbed from outside 1200 in OWGR to top 60 in the world last year.  He has had 2 wins, 3 second place finishes, a 3rd and 5 other top 10s the last 2 years.


Notable guys who swing below average speed wise:
Jim Furyk
Chad Campbell
Wesley Bryan
Brian Gay
Chez Reavie
David Lingmerth
Matt Kuchar
Billy Hurley
Vaughn Taylor
Johnathan Byrd
Brian Harman
Brandt Snedeker
Russel Knox
Ryan Blaum
John Huh
Ryan Moore
Webb Simpson
Adam Hadwin
Kevin Kisner
JJ Spaun
Jonas Blixt
Russell Henley
Btw Jordan Spieth is averaging 112mph currently.  

I could add more, those are relevant guys whoíve won and contended recently.

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#20 darter79

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:08 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

You

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

They have no trouble reaching greens in regulation.  You're not even close to accurate.  I've taught on tour for 10 years.  You act like like hitting it 280 all of a sudden makes it impossible to reach greens.  Some of the top players in SG on Approach shots so far are below average in clubhead speed.  There is a player top 12 in SG of the TEE while being well below average in clubhead speed.  He's also top 16 SG on approach shots and top 10 SG tee to green

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

:stop:

:taunt:


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#21 marker10

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:11 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

You

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

They have no trouble reaching greens in regulation.  You're not even close to accurate.  I've taught on tour for 10 years.  You act like like hitting it 280 all of a sudden makes it impossible to reach greens.  Some of the top players in SG on Approach shots so far are below average in clubhead speed.  There is a player top 12 in SG of the TEE while being well below average in clubhead speed.  He's also top 16 SG on approach shots and top 10 SG tee to green

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

I believe Kevin Na and Andrew Landry won last year and they aren't the longest hitters.  I think Kevin Na won over $3 million last year.  Not bad!

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#22 BertGA

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 12:53 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:


Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

I’d be interested in seeing the credentials that support your expertise on what it takes to succeed in the PGA.

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#23 tiger1873

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 01:51 PM

View PostBertGA, on 27 November 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:


Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

I’d be interested in seeing the credentials that support your expertise on what it takes to succeed in the PGA.

It's an observation on what I see and if you look almost always the top players who win are long hitters. A lot people don't want to admit it but if you can't hit the ball long it's a major problem.  

Let's look at the best golfers in the world. All of them hit much longer then the average player.  

https://www.pgatour....s/stat.186.html
1 2 Brooks Koepka 44 10.12 445.06 -220.70 368.32 USA 2 1 Justin Rose 48 9.91 475.49 -246.44 369.23 ENG 3 3 Dustin Johnson 44 9.00 395.94 -410.68 338.21 USA 4 4 Justin Thomas 47 8.79 413.07 -336.15 314.47 USA 5 5 Bryson DeChambeau 52 7.24 376.57 -87.30 387.15 USA

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#24 ebrasmus21

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 02:40 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 27 November 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

I’d be interested in seeing the credentials that support your expertise on what it takes to succeed in the PGA.

It's an observation on what I see and if you look almost always the top players who win are long hitters. A lot people don't want to admit it but if you can't hit the ball long it's a major problem.  

Let's look at the best golfers in the world. All of them hit much longer then the average player.  

https://www.pgatour....s/stat.186.html
1 2 Brooks Koepka 44 10.12 445.06 -220.70 368.32 USA 2 1 Justin Rose 48 9.91 475.49 -246.44 369.23 ENG 3 3 Dustin Johnson 44 9.00 395.94 -410.68 338.21 USA 4 4 Justin Thomas 47 8.79 413.07 -336.15 314.47 USA 5 5 Bryson DeChambeau 52 7.24 376.57 -87.30 387.15 USA

No one here has argued that distance is not an advantage.

Edited by ebrasmus21, 27 November 2018 - 02:40 PM.

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#25 Shilgy

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:11 PM

View Postdarter79, on 27 November 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 27 November 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 26 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The guide is good as a baseline but I think it may be off on both the slower end and higher end for sure. The biggest issue is some are better ball strikers then others and I don't like the Average LPGA and PGA stats.

Most people think average LPGA, PGA or Senior tour player is a lot better than they are.  In reality the average tour player has a hard time making ends meets after costs and probably misses more cuts than they make.

Last week we were at the LPGA CME championship and there is a vast difference between the top 25% and lower 75% in driving distance and most people consider the top 25% average.  The better players are all much faster then the rest of the player and drive the ball much farther.  You need to be far above the average to actually be a contender.  I believe the PGA is the same way.

Plenty of PGA Tour winners and future Hall of Famers below average clubhead speed wise.  And the average PGA Tour player makes comfortably over a million dollars a year and has no trouble making ends meet.  LPGA is a different story

There are not that many Hall of Famers who didn't hit it father then average at one time on tour on the tour today. Sure they still compete when they are older but most of them would have lost their tour card if not for the wins early on.

If a player can't hit the ball long and accurate they are going to have a very tough time winning on any Major Pro tour.  A pro with less then average clubbed speed is going to struggle getting the ball on regulation and probably be in the bottom 50% and just simply trying to stay on tour and have huge expenses to stay on tour. If your not accurate and long  then being on tour is a bit of stretch.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Where do you get this stuff from? how long did you try to play on tour from? I can list a lot of tour pros who are not long at all but have won majors. Think Zach Johnson who club head speed is only around 105. But the dude can play, has a nice looking green jacket in his closet.
110 in 2018 at age 42.  Which doesn't sound like a huge difference but is about 12 extra yards of carry.

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#26 Shilgy

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:33 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 27 November 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:


Tell me, how did McDowell do in the US Open?  Did he do okay?
This whole conversation is why the idea of "120th on tour"  really means anything is folly.  McDowell averaged 293.2 last year. Simpson 293.7, Zach 289.8.  None of them are short hitters that cannot reach a green easily in regulation and most par 5's in two. Reed averaged just 5 yards longer that Webb and Grahame. Is he short as well?    Rank on tour does not mean you are really lacking proficiency at a segment of the game as some categories are so close as to be negligible.

  Score is all that matters-how is not that big a deal imho.
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#27 ebrasmus21

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 03:56 PM

View PostShilgy, on 27 November 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 27 November 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Tell me, how did McDowell do in the US Open?  Did he do okay?
This whole conversation is why the idea of "120th on tour"  really means anything is folly.  McDowell averaged 293.2 last year. Simpson 293.7, Zach 289.8.  None of them are short hitters that cannot reach a green easily in regulation and most par 5's in two. Reed averaged just 5 yards longer that Webb and Grahame. Is he short as well? Rank on tour does not mean you are really lacking proficiency at a segment of the game as some categories are so close as to be negligible.

  Score is all that matters-how is not that big a deal imho.

Agreed.  There are lots of "short knockers" on tour that seem to make a fine living.  

It's kind of funny to call someone like Zach a "short knocker" as well.  I mean, sure, relative to some of the other guys on tour he might not be long but if you think about it Zach Johnson is longer than probably 99.9% of humans on this planet hitting a driver.
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#28 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:05 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 27 November 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

I’d be interested in seeing the credentials that support your expertise on what it takes to succeed in the PGA.

It's an observation on what I see and if you look almost always the top players who win are long hitters. A lot people don't want to admit it but if you can't hit the ball long it's a major problem.  

Let's look at the best golfers in the world. All of them hit much longer then the average player.  

https://www.pgatour....s/stat.186.html
1 2 Brooks Koepka 44 10.12 445.06 -220.70 368.32 USA 2 1 Justin Rose 48 9.91 475.49 -246.44 369.23 ENG 3 3 Dustin Johnson 44 9.00 395.94 -410.68 338.21 USA 4 4 Justin Thomas 47 8.79 413.07 -336.15 314.47 USA 5 5 Bryson DeChambeau 52 7.24 376.57 -87.30 387.15 USA

Have you been drinking today?

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#29 darter79

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 07:23 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 27 November 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostBertGA, on 27 November 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 27 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

Name a CURRENT TOP 20 player that can't dive the ball longer than Average. This is joke to say someone who hits the ball 275 yards can compete with a Cameron Champ. Sometimes I wonder who you actually teach? Have you ever actually taught someone who has won on the PGA tour? I mean come on if a guy can't drive more then 300 yards he's a long shot to have any success on the PGA tour especially winning a Major.

Talking about guys who won 10-20 years ago is irrelevant the courses are getting longer as they get replaced so distance is bigger deal now then even 10 years ago.

I’d be interested in seeing the credentials that support your expertise on what it takes to succeed in the PGA.

It's an observation on what I see and if you look almost always the top players who win are long hitters. A lot people don't want to admit it but if you can't hit the ball long it's a major problem.  

Let's look at the best golfers in the world. All of them hit much longer then the average player.  

https://www.pgatour....s/stat.186.html
1 2 Brooks Koepka 44 10.12 445.06 -220.70 368.32 USA 2 1 Justin Rose 48 9.91 475.49 -246.44 369.23 ENG 3 3 Dustin Johnson 44 9.00 395.94 -410.68 338.21 USA 4 4 Justin Thomas 47 8.79 413.07 -336.15 314.47 USA 5 5 Bryson DeChambeau 52 7.24 376.57 -87.30 387.15 USA

Have you been drinking today?

just today?

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#30 Shades234

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:10 PM

Not a junior anymore, but the numbers in this graphic are actually pretty spot on for me. +/- 2 yards for each iron. Woods and Driver are a touch lower (5 yards maybe) like someone mentioned, but still an interesting chart to peek.

And some nice drama to follow as well. A+ thread guys.


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