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Meta-Awareness Learning

metagolf meta awareness jim waldron

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#1 FourTops

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 11:07 PM

While I don't always agree with Jim Waldron....I think he's onto something with meta-awareness.  When I first saw the information, my immediate reaction was to disprove his idea.  But after some thought, it kinda made sense.  Now I don't claim to understand every aspect of meta-awareness, and maybe Jim can chime-in, but I've posted before that I see a "movie" in my head regarding how I want to swing.

OK...that may sound crazy...but it's true. When I setup to hit...I picture myself "watching" my swing like another player would do on the course.  And as I've posted...i picture Fred Couple's swing in my mind...and I think "how would that swing look if I watched myself swing like Fred?".  i'm NOT saying my swing is the same as his....just that my brain has an image that provides a sense of "fluidity" and "positions" I should be "in" as I swing.

Anyway, I know this post sounds nuts....and it may not coincide with Jim's concepts...but I thought I'd share my thoughts for comments...knowing I'll get many "are you smoking crack?" comments.


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#2 Golfer4Life

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 11:11 PM

I don't know if it is Meta-Awareness, but I always visualize the way I want my shot to be and try to follow up with execution.
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#3 FourTops

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 11:21 PM

View PostGolfer4Life, on 15 November 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

I don't know if it is Meta-Awareness, but I always visualize the way I want my shot to be and try to follow up with execution.

Now that you said that....I think Nicklaus said the same thing in Golf My Way.

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#4 wmblake2000

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 01:22 AM

Meta-awareness is observing what you are thinking, experiencing (as opposed to the thinking/experiencing itself).  Having the image of Couples is not meta-awareness, in and of itself.  Being conscious of this as you do it (which you may become, now that you've talked about it) - eg, I am seeing myself imagine Fred couples swing. On one hand, we get 'enmeshed' with out thoughts/emotions/experiences and have no ability to witness it as it happens; on the other, we observe our thinking/experience as it happens (and/or upon reflection of it).  The calmer I am, the more able I am to have meta-awareness.
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#5 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.



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#6 jj9000

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:18 AM

Still trying to figure out why the word Meta was inserted to this.

Conceptually, Awareness as a standalone, is broad enough to cover the concept.

But, I suppose pseudo-psyco-physio-meta-awareness sounds a bit more profound.

All this new age jaron is jackin' up my Fung Shui...brah.

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#7 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:28 AM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.
And if you can take a golf shot in that window of time you will understand why it's awesome.  Getting into that place mentally is not difficult or hocus pocus it's been going on for centuries just not tought much in golf (yet).

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#8 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:28 AM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.


That is a good explanation. Essentially your brain (#1) getting in the way of your brain (#2).

View Postjj9000, on 16 November 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

Still trying to figure out why the word Meta was inserted to this.

Conceptually, Awareness as a standalone, is broad enough to cover the concept.

But, I suppose pseudo-psyco-physio-meta-awareness sounds a bit more profound.

All this new age jaron is jackin' up my Fung Shui...brah.

Similar to what I said in the other thread. New “big word” stuff to basically say something old. Verbal rebranding.
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#9 jonsnow

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 09:27 AM

I wish I only had 3 voices in my head. It gets pretty crowded in there right now. If I could get rid of Mr. Shank, Mrs. Foozle & Ms. Twitch I believe I would play better...
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#10 golfstripe

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 12:35 PM

So I had a dream about dreaming about day dreaming about meta-awareness and I woke up with a headache.   No wonder I had drool on my pillow.


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#11 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 01:13 PM

View Postgolfstripe, on 16 November 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

So I had a dream about dreaming about day dreaming about meta-awareness and I woke up with a headache.   No wonder I had drool on my pillow.

So those of us who practice quieting the mind we have no problems sleeping, its probably the best thing about. Racing thoughts are easy to get ride of.


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#12 oikos1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.
And if you can take a golf shot in that window of time you will understand why it's awesome.  Getting into that place mentally is not difficult or hocus pocus it's been going on for centuries just not tought much in golf (yet).
How are you still a 3 cap?  Are you just toying with the game?  You're not a sandbagger are you?

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#13 FourTops

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 07:36 PM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.

jbw...I like how you think.  This sounds like Inner Golf by Gallwey.  I read that book years ago.  And this story will sound like complete BS...I would call BS too...but it's true.

I read Inner Golf the night before a tournament...just a one-round tourney for fun...company A vs. company B. I had zero thoughts because I decided to cancel-out BOTH Self 1 and Self 2....I just "played".  I shot 4 under on the front...my normal score was 4 over.   But what happened is I started THINKING "how did I do that" after the front 9...and shot 5 over on the back.  So to your point, there's a lot of "back and forth chatter" going on that has to be turned off.

Edited by FourTops, 16 November 2018 - 07:37 PM.


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#14 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:18 PM

View Postoikos1, on 16 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.
And if you can take a golf shot in that window of time you will understand why it's awesome.  Getting into that place mentally is not difficult or hocus pocus it's been going on for centuries just not tought much in golf (yet).
How are you still a 3 cap?  Are you just toying with the game?  You're not a sandbagger are you?
Not a sandbagger. Actually I was more of a vanity capper back in the day. Until I was able to quiet down self #1. It's funny how shutting the ego down changes priorities.

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#15 FourTops

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:20 PM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

View Postoikos1, on 16 November 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.
And if you can take a golf shot in that window of time you will understand why it's awesome.  Getting into that place mentally is not difficult or hocus pocus it's been going on for centuries just not tought much in golf (yet).
How are you still a 3 cap?  Are you just toying with the game?  You're not a sandbagger are you?
Not a sandbagger. Actually I was more of a vanity capper back in the day. Until I was able to quiet down self #1. It's funny how shutting the ego down changes priorities.

Self 1 is an Instructional gassbag.


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#16 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:45 PM

View PostFourTops, on 16 November 2018 - 07:36 PM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.

jbw...I like how you think.  This sounds like Inner Golf by Gallwey.  I read that book years ago.  And this story will sound like complete BS...I would call BS too...but it's true.

I read Inner Golf the night before a tournament...just a one-round tourney for fun...company A vs. company B. I had zero thoughts because I decided to cancel-out BOTH Self 1 and Self 2....I just "played".  I shot 4 under on the front...my normal score was 4 over.   But what happened is I started THINKING "how did I do that" after the front 9...and shot 5 over on the back.  So to your point, there's a lot of "back and forth chatter" going on that has to be turned off.
It's definitely the "Inner Game of Golf". I've read it several times. It's also a few other books.
Tim Gallwey doesn't go into detail on how to stay in the present. I read a book called The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle right around the same time I read the Inner Game of Golf and then it started coming together.

I started tinkering with hitting golf shots in the present. Sounds simple but not many do it. They think they do, but they don't. At some point during the PSR or during the swing they think about past failures or worry about poor results in the future.
People who play like this will benefit the most from meta-awareness.

I think where it throws people off is they think it's swinging with no thoughts and they go try to swing with no thoughts and slice it into the woods. That's not it.

It's deliberately swinging in the present. To get there takes thinking a certain way or meta-awareness.

It's not hard to learn, just really hard to explain to someone who's self 1 dominates their life.

In every golfer I play with I can see how much self 1 is running the show. Some much more than others. You can definitely see it in people's written words on golf forums too.


16

#17 FourTops

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:49 PM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:45 PM, said:

View PostFourTops, on 16 November 2018 - 07:36 PM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's being a witness to your thoughts. When I learned it I pictured 3 people in my head: and for you smart people this is going to be explained in layman's terms sorry.

1) The talker.
The one who's always barking orders, murmuring under breath about bad shots, judging, taking all the credit on good shots this guy has an ego and an inferiority complex.

2)The do-er.
This is the subconscious, the one who can safely navigate your car home for miles while the mind is wandering without having any recollection of the stoplights or turns you took. The one who can bolt up and down stairs without thinking, react to a punch. The super computer of your mind. This is what we want to access during a golf swing.

3) The witness.
The third party observer who sits back and watches the other 2.  This part has zero interest in what's good or bad just non-judgmentaly observes.

See #2 the SC has a hell of a time operating if #1 the talker is barking orders at it all the time. Infact it can't operate. A super computer does not need someone telling it what to do.

Now when you start learning this and the eye opener will be this:

***Pay attention to how the voices, orders, judging, random thoughts start to get less and less the more you witness them***
This is Zen 101. Count the seconds you can make #1 go away by sheer observation of the witness. 5 seconds is good 10 is outstanding.
It's in this time frame that the super computer can operate. And it's awesome.

jbw...I like how you think.  This sounds like Inner Golf by Gallwey.  I read that book years ago.  And this story will sound like complete BS...I would call BS too...but it's true.

I read Inner Golf the night before a tournament...just a one-round tourney for fun...company A vs. company B. I had zero thoughts because I decided to cancel-out BOTH Self 1 and Self 2....I just "played".  I shot 4 under on the front...my normal score was 4 over.   But what happened is I started THINKING "how did I do that" after the front 9...and shot 5 over on the back.  So to your point, there's a lot of "back and forth chatter" going on that has to be turned off.
It's definitely the "Inner Game of Golf". I've read it several times. It's also a few other books.
Tim Gallwey doesn't go into detail on how to stay in the present. I read a book called The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle right around the same time I read the Inner Game of Golf and then it started coming together.

I started tinkering with hitting golf shots in the present. Sounds simple but not many do it. They think they do, but they don't. At some point during the PSR or during the swing they think about past failures or worry about poor results in the future.
People who play like this will benefit the most from meta-awareness.

I think where it throws people off is they think it's swinging with no thoughts and they go try to swing with no thoughts and slice it into the woods. That's not it.

It's deliberately swinging in the present. To get there takes thinking a certain way or meta-awareness.

It's not hard to learn, just really hard to explain to someone who's self 1 dominates their life.

In every golfer I play with I can see how much self 1 is running the show. Some much more than others. You can definitely see it in people's written words on golf forums too.

Interesting.  So let me ask you this if I may:  You're on a par 3...water along the right....you've dumped many shots into the water despite lining-up left...and "lefter".  Do you simply get up...ignore the water and aim at the pin....and think..."on the green"?

Edited by FourTops, 16 November 2018 - 08:49 PM.


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#18 gatorMD

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 09:08 PM

View PostFourTops, on 15 November 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

While I don't always agree with Jim Waldron....I think he's onto something with meta-awareness.  When I first saw the information, my immediate reaction was to disprove his idea.  But after some thought, it kinda made sense.  Now I don't claim to understand every aspect of meta-awareness, and maybe Jim can chime-in, but I've posted before that I see a "movie" in my head regarding how I want to swing.

OK...that may sound crazy...but it's true. When I setup to hit...I picture myself "watching" my swing like another player would do on the course.  And as I've posted...i picture Fred Couple's swing in my mind...and I think "how would that swing look if I watched myself swing like Fred?".  i'm NOT saying my swing is the same as his....just that my brain has an image that provides a sense of "fluidity" and "positions" I should be "in" as I swing.

Anyway, I know this post sounds nuts....and it may not coincide with Jim's concepts...but I thought I'd share my thoughts for comments...knowing I'll get many "are you smoking crack?" comments.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Metacognition
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#19 bladehunter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:22 PM

If people only knew how true this is.  

Im still mastering it. But Ive managed to turn self off a couple time on command recently. And its an addicting feeling.    Also hilarious you guys called it self.  I named it that a while back and said self is an a****** and imagined having a conversation with Him where he snaps back at me. Ive closed the front door on him and locked it.  Silenced.  

Other players have described placing their brain on another greats swing for a time.  Nick Faldo for one.  He concentrated on several Guys moves during his career.  

Another tip is.  Try to use it in practice too.  The more you excercise  it. The easier it is.

Edited by bladehunter, 16 November 2018 - 10:23 PM.

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#20 bladehunter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:28 PM

View Postjbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

View Postgolfstripe, on 16 November 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

So I had a dream about dreaming about day dreaming about meta-awareness and I woke up with a headache.   No wonder I had drool on my pillow.

So those of us who practice quieting the mind we have no problems sleeping, its probably the best thing about. Racing thoughts are easy to get ride of.

Yes !  Makes my wife soooo mad.  I can be asleep inside 30 seconds on command.  She however takes a special pillow , a fan , twelve socks , and tv on , no sound.  Lol.

But I have a racing mind in constant loop if unchecked.

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#21 sailfishchris

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:37 PM

You know, Ty Webb taught this to Danny Noonan in like 5 minutes! Be the ball Danny!...be the ball!
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#22 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:37 PM

 bladehunter, on 16 November 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

 jbw749, on 16 November 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

 golfstripe, on 16 November 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

So I had a dream about dreaming about day dreaming about meta-awareness and I woke up with a headache.   No wonder I had drool on my pillow.

So those of us who practice quieting the mind we have no problems sleeping, its probably the best thing about. Racing thoughts are easy to get ride of.

Yes !  Makes my wife soooo mad.  I can be asleep inside 30 seconds on command.  She however takes a special pillow , a fan , twelve socks , and tv on , no sound.  Lol.

But I have a racing mind in constant loop if unchecked.

It's gotten a lot easier as time goes on. If I wake up in the middle of the night, it's getting back to sleep with the racing mind where I really need to focus on it.

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#23 jbw749

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:46 PM

 gatorMD, on 16 November 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 15 November 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

While I don't always agree with Jim Waldron....I think he's onto something with meta-awareness.  When I first saw the information, my immediate reaction was to disprove his idea.  But after some thought, it kinda made sense.  Now I don't claim to understand every aspect of meta-awareness, and maybe Jim can chime-in, but I've posted before that I see a "movie" in my head regarding how I want to swing.

OK...that may sound crazy...but it's true. When I setup to hit...I picture myself "watching" my swing like another player would do on the course.  And as I've posted...i picture Fred Couple's swing in my mind...and I think "how would that swing look if I watched myself swing like Fred?".  i'm NOT saying my swing is the same as his....just that my brain has an image that provides a sense of "fluidity" and "positions" I should be "in" as I swing.

Anyway, I know this post sounds nuts....and it may not coincide with Jim's concepts...but I thought I'd share my thoughts for comments...knowing I'll get many "are you smoking crack?" comments.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Metacognition

Dr Gator,

That was a good read. This part is interesting:

Metamemory, defined as knowing about memory and mnemonic strategies, is an especially important form of metacognition.[3] Academic research on metacognitive processing across cultures is in the early stages, but there are indications that further work may provide better outcomes in cross-cultural learning between teachers and students.


So how this is used in learning is still relatively new? Am I reading that correctly?

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#24 FourTops

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:14 AM

 gatorMD, on 16 November 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

 FourTops, on 15 November 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

While I don't always agree with Jim Waldron....I think he's onto something with meta-awareness.  When I first saw the information, my immediate reaction was to disprove his idea.  But after some thought, it kinda made sense.  Now I don't claim to understand every aspect of meta-awareness, and maybe Jim can chime-in, but I've posted before that I see a "movie" in my head regarding how I want to swing.

OK...that may sound crazy...but it's true. When I setup to hit...I picture myself "watching" my swing like another player would do on the course.  And as I've posted...i picture Fred Couple's swing in my mind...and I think "how would that swing look if I watched myself swing like Fred?".  i'm NOT saying my swing is the same as his....just that my brain has an image that provides a sense of "fluidity" and "positions" I should be "in" as I swing.

Anyway, I know this post sounds nuts....and it may not coincide with Jim's concepts...but I thought I'd share my thoughts for comments...knowing I'll get many "are you smoking crack?" comments.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Metacognition
  • Content knowledge is understanding one's own capabilities. It is notable that not all metacognition is accurate. Studies have shown that students often mistake lack of effort with understanding in evaluating themselves and their overall knowledge of a concept.[8] Also, greater confidence in having performed well is associated with less accurate metacognitive judgment of the performance.
This might explain why golfers (and myself) chase the wrong swing "fixes".  How many times have we thought about a "fix" just before hitting a shot....something like "Ok, this time i'm going to break my wrists early in the back swing"....and then hit a career shot?  In our mind we believe that the one isolated move of breaking the wrists early, out of all the other moves, conditions, lie angle, etc,., is 100% responsible for the great shot.  However, in reality that particular "fix" had nothing to do with the outcome...something else occurred.  Thus we hit 1,000's of range balls to replicate that one shot, but we fail because the cause and effect analysis was flawed. In fact, over time we actually get worse.  This might explain why folks say "I lost my swing'".  We didn't lose anything...we simply focused on a "tree vs the forest".

As for learning....why is it I can get about anyone, even a newbie, to emulate a pro's swing positions in very slow motion, step-by-step.  But as soon as they increase their swing speed just a little, they lose all the positions?  My answer is similar to learning the piano.  In piano, a newbie can play scales very slowly and hit all the notes, but add a metronome at 120 beats per minute and the fingers and brain disconnect in short-order.  Piano teachers teach precision over speed in the learning process....go slow and build speed over time once coordination of brain and fingers builds.  In golf, it's "play the scale at 120 bpm" from the start.  This is why i don't subscribe to SuperSpeed Golf, unless one has already reached an advanced level.  I personally know guys who use SSG and are getting worse, not better, because they are reinforcing bad technique and thus playing very bad "piano scales".

Edited by FourTops, 17 November 2018 - 11:19 AM.


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#25 tdk8180

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:41 AM

I believe my meta-awareness is STRONG when I see my swing on tape and go..."wait...I look like that?  I saw more Freddie Couples, early 90s..in my mind...but thats ok, whatever the tape says."

Edited by tdk8180, 17 November 2018 - 11:42 AM.


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#26 Nard_S

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 12:20 PM

I've come to buy into this stuff a lot more this year. Have not played nor practiced as much but my anti-cap and duration of quality play is much better.Used to take 100 balls at the range to fall into this but I can do it much faster now, just by the awareness. I have a  somewhat different view of it though. I channel the a****** in my head to go into an observatory mode. It tunes in and dispassionately, patiently connects dots of feels and results. So it is actually quite active and yet apart. It's the audience and the body is the artist. It's the caddy helping the player. It never dictates but it is there to consult. I work on my swing incessantly but I no longer go scatter shot with fixes or jump down rabbit holes. So right brain is dominant but left assesses and after digesting patterns tweaks can easily be executed. All in all, I'm a lot more patient, happy, more in the moment and get more out of play and practice.

I'm not satisfied to "just swing my swing" because I did that and hit wall at 6-7 cap for years. I need an avenue where I can trade up my game. So I blend this yin and yang and use meta-awareness to facilitate it. A deeper anchoring of all aspects to this is where I'm heading this off season.I'm twice the golfer technique wise than 3 years ago but mental maturity has always been lacking and lagging. Honing in on the "meta" will hopefully fix that.

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#27 jbw749

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 04:19 PM

 Nard_S, on 17 November 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

I've come to buy into this stuff a lot more this year. Have not played nor practiced as much but my anti-cap and duration of quality play is much better.Used to take 100 balls at the range to fall into this but I can do it much faster now, just by the awareness. I have a  somewhat different view of it though. I channel the a****** in my head to go into an observatory mode. It tunes in and dispassionately, patiently connects dots of feels and results. So it is actually quite active and yet apart. It's the audience and the body is the artist. It's the caddy helping the player. It never dictates but it is there to consult. I work on my swing incessantly but I no longer go scatter shot with fixes or jump down rabbit holes. So right brain is dominant but left assesses and after digesting patterns tweaks can easily be executed. All in all, I'm a lot more patient, happy, more in the moment and get more out of play and practice.

I'm not satisfied to "just swing my swing" because I did that and hit wall at 6-7 cap for years. I need an avenue where I can trade up my game. So I blend this yin and yang and use meta-awareness to facilitate it. A deeper anchoring of all aspects to this is where I'm heading this off season.I'm twice the golfer technique wise than 3 years ago but mental maturity has always been lacking and lagging. Honing in on the "meta" will hopefully fix that.

That makes perfect sense to me. For me it felt like a roll reversal. The a-hole was no longer in charge, instead it now just observes for the subconscious and during the swing it focuses on something external.



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#28 oikos1

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 05:24 PM

 jbw749, on 17 November 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

 Nard_S, on 17 November 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

I've come to buy into this stuff a lot more this year. Have not played nor practiced as much but my anti-cap and duration of quality play is much better.Used to take 100 balls at the range to fall into this but I can do it much faster now, just by the awareness. I have a  somewhat different view of it though. I channel the a****** in my head to go into an observatory mode. It tunes in and dispassionately, patiently connects dots of feels and results. So it is actually quite active and yet apart. It's the audience and the body is the artist. It's the caddy helping the player. It never dictates but it is there to consult. I work on my swing incessantly but I no longer go scatter shot with fixes or jump down rabbit holes. So right brain is dominant but left assesses and after digesting patterns tweaks can easily be executed. All in all, I'm a lot more patient, happy, more in the moment and get more out of play and practice.

I'm not satisfied to "just swing my swing" because I did that and hit wall at 6-7 cap for years. I need an avenue where I can trade up my game. So I blend this yin and yang and use meta-awareness to facilitate it. A deeper anchoring of all aspects to this is where I'm heading this off season.I'm twice the golfer technique wise than 3 years ago but mental maturity has always been lacking and lagging. Honing in on the "meta" will hopefully fix that.

That makes perfect sense to me. For me it felt like a roll reversal. The a-hole was no longer in charge, instead it now just observes for the subconscious and during the swing it focuses on something external.

Say what?  You have an a-hole that is no longer in charge in your head?  Why did it choose just to observe, or did you put it in it's place?  Did it only act out when you play golf?  So bizarre...

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#29 FourTops

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 07:37 PM

 oikos1, on 17 November 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:

 jbw749, on 17 November 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

 Nard_S, on 17 November 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

I've come to buy into this stuff a lot more this year. Have not played nor practiced as much but my anti-cap and duration of quality play is much better.Used to take 100 balls at the range to fall into this but I can do it much faster now, just by the awareness. I have a  somewhat different view of it though. I channel the a****** in my head to go into an observatory mode. It tunes in and dispassionately, patiently connects dots of feels and results. So it is actually quite active and yet apart. It's the audience and the body is the artist. It's the caddy helping the player. It never dictates but it is there to consult. I work on my swing incessantly but I no longer go scatter shot with fixes or jump down rabbit holes. So right brain is dominant but left assesses and after digesting patterns tweaks can easily be executed. All in all, I'm a lot more patient, happy, more in the moment and get more out of play and practice.

I'm not satisfied to "just swing my swing" because I did that and hit wall at 6-7 cap for years. I need an avenue where I can trade up my game. So I blend this yin and yang and use meta-awareness to facilitate it. A deeper anchoring of all aspects to this is where I'm heading this off season.I'm twice the golfer technique wise than 3 years ago but mental maturity has always been lacking and lagging. Honing in on the "meta" will hopefully fix that.

That makes perfect sense to me. For me it felt like a roll reversal. The a-hole was no longer in charge, instead it now just observes for the subconscious and during the swing it focuses on something external.

Say what?  You have an a-hole that is no longer in charge in your head?  Why did it choose just to observe, or did you put it in it's place?  Did it only act out when you play golf?  So bizarre...

This is tough for some folks to swallow.  But the "ahole" lives in people's heads in every day life. The ahole tells the young man he's too ugly to ask a girl to dance.  The ahole tells the woman she probably shouldn't bother applying for a job because men dominate the field.  The ahole tells folks they're not good at math, sales, or fixing a car.  The ahole keeps people down...in their place...judgmental.  The ahole is the artificial, self-inflicted boundary for which explains why many folks don't succeed.

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#30 FourTops

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 08:06 PM

The tough part about golf is what we see externally when watching someone's swing means nothing.  Let's assume I can 98% mimic Couples swing from an external view.  The fact is the two swings are entirely different because Couples is thinking of things I'm not thinking about.  He may think his tempo is comfortably quicker while i I think it's slower, more graceful.  He may feel like his right eye is behind the ball at impact while I don't think of my right eye, and never will.....I could be thinking of my right wrist position at impact.  This is why teaching golf is extremely hard.  No two minds are alike in the process of swinging even if the swings are nearly identical..

Edited by FourTops, 17 November 2018 - 08:06 PM.


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