Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

* * * - - 4 votes

The real reason golfers donít get better with practice


317 replies to this topic

#301 jbw749

jbw749

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 142633
  • Joined: 10/15/2011
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 568

Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:07 AM

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

View PostgatorMD, on 06 December 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:


Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean?  Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

Not hard to understand, but not many do.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#302 fowlerscousin

fowlerscousin

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 760 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 278691
  • Joined: 10/02/2013
  • Location:earth
GolfWRX Likes : 256

Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:31 AM

One of my biggest obstacles is that I spend a lot of time practicing the wrong things, many other players do the same thing

2

#303 ebrasmus21

ebrasmus21

    Serial Shanker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,106 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 250392
  • Joined: 05/13/2013
  • Location:CA
  • Handicap:5
GolfWRX Likes : 3373

Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:44 AM

Felt pretty good about my putting session today.  

30 minutes spent on my EyeLine - as I'm currently working on changes in my setup
     - 12' with a little left to right break
     - after I got in a groove had to make 10 in a row before moving on

Then moved on to the clock drill.  Had to make all 6 from 4' before I could leave.

Good constructive practice with a little added pressure.
G400 LST - TPT proto
TM M3 - Rogue Silver 110MSI 70S
21* Fourteen Type 7 Driving Iron - HZRDUS Black 6.5 105g
4 - PW Mizuno MP 18 MMC - SteelFiber FC115
50, 54, 60 RC Dual Bite - SteelFiber i125
Evnroll ER5
Snell MTB Black

3

#304 gatorMD

gatorMD

    Hacker-in-Chief

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 3,442 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 487980
  • Joined: 12/03/2017
  • Location:St. Petersburg, FL
  • Handicap:0.9
GolfWRX Likes : 2344

Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:02 PM

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

View PostgatorMD, on 06 December 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:


Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean?  Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

that is really well put, thx.
Driver: Ping G400Max 9 Tour DI 7
3W: TM M2 Tour AD MT 7
Utility: Srixon Z U65 3/20 Blueboard
Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 4-PW Tour V
Wedges: SM6 50F and 54S; SM5 60K DG
Putter: Odyssey White Hot RX Rossie Putter
Ball: Titleist AVX
Grips: Grip Master Leather

4

#305 Obee

Obee

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,142 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 72306
  • Joined: 01/09/2009
  • Location:Riverside, CA, USA
  • Handicap:+1
GolfWRX Likes : 4368

Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:15 PM

View PostgatorMD, on 07 December 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

View PostgatorMD, on 06 December 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:


Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean?  Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

that is really well put, thx.

Learning how to do this has lead to the best golf I've ever played under pressure in my life. I'm 51, with a horrible back and left hip, I'm playing once or twice a week, max, and I'm shooting scores almost as good in competition as I did when I was 35 - 40 and playing 3 to 4 times a week.

Everyone has different "buggaboos," but for those of us out there who can tend to be a bit on the anxious side when they golf, learning to do this will be an amazing breakthrough.

PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
Don Wood Custom Grind 51* GW
Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)

5

#306 jut111

jut111

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 205837
  • Joined: 10/04/2012
  • Location:North of Boston
GolfWRX Likes : 1019

Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:29 PM

Definitely abeliever in this type of thinking, not just for golf purposes.  Havenít seen much on how to attain it though. Any resources out there?

6

#307 Millbrook

Millbrook

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,700 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 216859
  • Joined: 12/20/2012
  • Location:East Yorkshire UK
GolfWRX Likes : 500

Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:45 PM

View Postjut111, on 07 December 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Definitely abeliever in this type of thinking, not just for golf purposes.  Haven't seen much on how to attain it though. Any resources out there?

Had a look around and found this for you;

https://www.training...-of-mindfulness

This is the link in para 4. which are the exercises

https://mindtime.me/listen.php
All comments are made from the point of
view of my learning and not a claim
to expertise.

7

#308 jut111

jut111

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 205837
  • Joined: 10/04/2012
  • Location:North of Boston
GolfWRX Likes : 1019

Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:59 PM

View PostMillbrook, on 07 December 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

View Postjut111, on 07 December 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Definitely abeliever in this type of thinking, not just for golf purposes.  Haven't seen much on how to attain it though. Any resources out there?

Had a look around and found this for you;

https://www.training...-of-mindfulness

This is the link in para 4. which are the exercises

https://mindtime.me/listen.php

Thanks!

8

#309 oikos1

oikos1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,162 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 124406
  • Joined: 03/12/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 983

Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:23 PM

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

View PostgatorMD, on 06 December 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:


Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean?  Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

What if you're talking to yourself with joy and positivity?  Why does it have to be negative self talk?

So, you talk to the yourself with positive thoughts as you watch the ball land and you let that feedback, that feeling absorb you.  No objectivity needed as it's pure, true and pleasurable.

Easy to understand.

9

#310 Obee

Obee

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,142 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 72306
  • Joined: 01/09/2009
  • Location:Riverside, CA, USA
  • Handicap:+1
GolfWRX Likes : 4368

Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:45 PM

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

View PostgatorMD, on 06 December 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:


Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean?  Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

What if you're talking to yourself with joy and positivity?  Why does it have to be negative self talk?

So, you talk to the yourself with positive thoughts as you watch the ball land and you let that feedback, that feeling absorb you.  No objectivity needed as it's pure, true and pleasurable.

Easy to understand.

Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
Don Wood Custom Grind 51* GW
Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#311 oikos1

oikos1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,162 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 124406
  • Joined: 03/12/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 983

Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM

View PostObee, on 07 December 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later?  How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory?  One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk.  Or do you recall nothing?

11

#312 Pepperturbo

Pepperturbo

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,212 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14656
  • Joined: 05/09/2006
  • Location:Midwest and Southwest
  • Handicap:lowS
GolfWRX Likes : 2841

Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:47 PM

IMO - A great many people have either negative or positive bias in their perceptions.  You know glass half empty or full.  It's their bias and or fears that get in the way of learning.  Very few people come to golf with a neutral frame of mind.

The other psychological aspect I've encountered in sports and business has to do with "fear of failure."  People anticipate the magnitude of continually scoring low then not scoring low, or what comes with being an executive and possibly failing, so they subconsciously get in their way of progress to prevent improvement.  :beach:
Titleist 917D2 10.5, Project X 6C12 Tour Issue
Titleist 917F2, 15*, Diamana Blueboard 83 x5ct,"S"
Titleist 716T-MB 2 iron, PX Flighted 6.0
Titleist 716CB PW-3i, PX 6.0
SM6 F-52*, PX 6.0
SM6 M-58*, DGS200
SC California Monterey
ProV1x

12

#313 Obee

Obee

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,142 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 72306
  • Joined: 01/09/2009
  • Location:Riverside, CA, USA
  • Handicap:+1
GolfWRX Likes : 4368

Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:53 PM

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 07 December 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later?  How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory?  One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk.  Or do you recall nothing?

Sorry if I wasn't clear: you are definitely judging the outcome of the shot, related to your precise intention. You are learning from the bad ones and positively imprinting the good ones ("THAT'S the way you hit a low cut. Yes!!")

The beginning of the original article in this thread lays out a solid process very well.
PING G400 Max - Tour 65 S
Callaway Rogue 15* 3W
Titleist H1 19* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Titleist H1 23* Diamana S+ Blue 70hy
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S
Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Don Wood Custom Grind 47* PW
Don Wood Custom Grind 51* GW
Titleist "Vokey Design" 56* K Grind
Mizuno S18 60/7 LW
Odyssey Works Versa Tank 1W (bent to 78.5*)

13

#314 jbw749

jbw749

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 142633
  • Joined: 10/15/2011
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 568

Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:05 PM

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 07 December 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later?  How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory?  One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk.  Or do you recall nothing?

It's relaxed confidence without over confidence. Stripping ball after ball knowing your winning the mental and physical game gives you the satisfaction, NOT the outcome of the shot.
This relaxed confidence is basically being "In the Zone" anyone who's actually been there knows they weren't over confident, but had no doubts either. You're on auto pilot. People who have been there and then lost it think it was some anomaly. It's not you were in the present, confident in your abilities yet not concerned with the outcome of the shot.

It's very difficult especially when your learning the mental game to stay in the present when you are judging the outcome of shots good or bad. Judging anything can pull you from the present very fast.

Edited by jbw749, 07 December 2018 - 08:06 PM.


14

#315 jbw749

jbw749

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 142633
  • Joined: 10/15/2011
  • Handicap:3
GolfWRX Likes : 568

Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:17 PM

"Be the right club today!" is not said to bask in the glory and observe how good the shot was.

It blurts out because of the enormous amount of mental obstacles you over came to pull the shot off under extreme pressure! That is much more gratifying than the shot itself.



15

#316 MetaGolfer

MetaGolfer

    Newbie

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 517808
  • Joined: 12/07/2018
  • Location:SoCal
  • Handicap:7.2
GolfWRX Likes : 0

Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:56 PM

View Postjbw749, on 07 December 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

View Postoikos1, on 07 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostObee, on 07 December 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later?  How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory?  One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk.  Or do you recall nothing?

It's relaxed confidence without over confidence. Stripping ball after ball knowing your winning the mental and physical game gives you the satisfaction, NOT the outcome of the shot.
This relaxed confidence is basically being "In the Zone" anyone who's actually been there knows they weren't over confident, but had no doubts either. You're on auto pilot. People who have been there and then lost it think it was some anomaly. It's not you were in the present, confident in your abilities yet not concerned with the outcome of the shot.

It's very difficult especially when your learning the mental game to stay in the present when you are judging the outcome of shots good or bad. Judging anything can pull you from the present very fast.

jbw...what does "stay in the present" mean?  Aren't we all in the present when we step up to a shot?  I know there's the "forget about the past and future" but isn't that asking too much?  If we are not to think about past or future events...what do we think about?  I know some say to focus on the shot...visualize...but that seems like a tall order with a side hill lie with a 5 iron.

16

#317 cb24

cb24

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,630 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 142533
  • Joined: 10/14/2011
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Handicap:1
GolfWRX Likes : 609

Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:51 PM

I really think it comes down to most people who struggle with something keep trying the same thing without making changes.  One doesnít magically get a different result if they tried it 50 times in a row.  The lack of experimentation by players when they are practicing and the awareness to reflect on what produced success and didnít is huge.  

Instruction can be great but not all instructors are helpful.  Experimentation is a huge instructor in itself and taking notes can really help as well.  

A good instructor also can help cut the growth curve down by a lot.

17

#318 Nard_S

Nard_S

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,857 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 335269
  • Joined: 08/21/2014
  • Location:Norwalk, CT
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 2215

Posted 08 December 2018 - 10:01 AM

Speaking for myself, I would guess 95% of practice over last 3 decades had nothing to do with improving. Also, the disparity of both what I thought was correct in terms of causation and effect and what I thought I was doing and actually doing was immense. Garbage in/garbage out. Practice does not improve but perfect practice does. Perfect can be defined as putting patient, concerted effort into moving the needle in a positive way based on sober realities of what truly needs fixing and mapping a path to get there. Not seen it in this thread, but reps matter, thousands not hundreds, sticking through a cycle for 1 change and dealing with how that effects other things too can be daunting to endure, so fall back and reverting to norm or old ways is easily done. Two steps forward, one step back. 'Bleed in' of improvement is a huge impediment.

18



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors