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MP 18 SC - More forgiving than the blade?


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#1 swing thoughts

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:34 PM

I'm getting some new (used, new for me) irons soon and really like the MP 18 SC. I currently play either mp 69's or Nike Vapor pros but want a little more forgiveness. Ive talked to some folks who are saying that their SC's aren't very forgiving, like only slightly more than the mp18 blades or other mizuno blade/musclebacks. Is this the experience you've had playing them?  I think they just may be saying that to make their game look better, they're kind of that kind of guys. Thanks

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#2 Gmack1973

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:08 PM

I got fitted for Mizunos in the summer, and i didnt see a huge difference between the sc18 and the mp18. I ended up getting the mmc fli hi in the 4 and 5 iron(bent 1 degree weak) as the 4 and 5 in both sc and mp werent that forgiving.

I have 6 to pw in mp18s. I hit them great.

I dont know if that means the sc18s arent forgiving, or the the mp18s are more forgiving than other blades, if that makes sense?? I certainly didnt notice a huge difference, and in fact in 2 fittings i hit the MP18s better, hence wjy i went with them.

I came from CF16s.

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#3 MKPAPA

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:10 PM

Can't say for certain as I don't own a set of either, but I feel like its a common understanding that a cavity back is more forgiving than a muscle back.
With that said, Maltby says otherwise: https://www.golfwork.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf

If MPF is not relative to forgiveness, someone please chime in. I could be wrong
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#4 bcsquare

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:18 PM

I've got a set of MP-18 in 5-PW.  During the fitting, I didn't see any difference in numbers or perceived forgiveness between the MB and SC.  Misses went the same distance and direction. The only thing that was different to me was that the SC was slightly thicker on the top line and didn't feel as soft when struck out the center.
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#5 Schulzmc

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:25 PM

I played about 15 rounds with the MP-18 SC and found my MP-5's to be more forgiving.


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#6 TCZ

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:30 PM

I played the SCs for a while and just found them to be 'meh' in all categories.
I would say they were similar to my Apex Pros and 716 CBs in terms of forgiveness.

Edited by TCZ, 05 November 2018 - 02:31 PM.

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#7 Argonne69

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:33 PM

View PostSchulzmc, on 05 November 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

I played about 15 rounds with the MP-18 SC and found my MP-5's to be more forgiving.

I played MP-5's for two seasons. I purchased an MP-18 SC 7 iron to try for a few rounds, thinking it might be slightly more forgiving. However, after a few rounds I found that the MP-5s were just as forgiving, if not more so.

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#8 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:32 PM

I was convinced I was going to finally replace my MP33ís with the SCís. After testing the SCís, the 900T, the 18 MB, and testing them, and testing, and not being able to decide, I went with the JPX 919T. They were never on my radar to begin with but they ended up being the most forgiving of them all. I was pretty confused about it to be honest. I couldnít understand why I hit them better than the SC, but I did. I also like the shape of them more. So before you buy them, hit them.
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#9 mahonie

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:36 PM

I can’t speak from personal experience, but one of my mates put a combo set of SCs and MBs together and wished he’d gone full MB. He thinks the SCs are less forgiving and don’t feel as good as the MBs.
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#10 swing thoughts

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:00 PM

View PostGmack1973, on 05 November 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

I got fitted for Mizunos in the summer, and i didnt see a huge difference between the sc18 and the mp18. I ended up getting the mmc fli hi in the 4 and 5 iron(bent 1 degree weak) as the 4 and 5 in both sc and mp werent that forgiving.

I have 6 to pw in mp18s. I hit them great.

I dont know if that means the sc18s arent forgiving, or the the mp18s are more forgiving than other blades, if that makes sense?? I certainly didnt notice a huge difference, and in fact in 2 fittings i hit the MP18s better, hence wjy i went with them.

I came from CF16s.
That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the feedback.

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#11 EliasMal

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:15 PM

I have 7-pw mp18 and 5, 6 sc. I feel that the sc are more forgiving and produce a higher flight, especially when caught a little lower on the face.


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#12 Chuck905

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:19 PM

I own a set of the blades and 900T, would recommend either one or the other and dismiss the SC.

The SC take as much skill as the blade to put in play but the blades are way ahead in feel.

The 900T, which I played a round a couple days ago are easy to hit and out perform them all at the expense of a firmer clicky feel thru impact.

Somebody mentioned the 919T, I havenít hit them yet but can imagine they improved the feel with their new HD grain process.
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#13 Kenny Lee Puckett

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:53 PM

View Postswing thoughts, on 05 November 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

I'm getting some new (used, new for me) irons soon and really like the MP 18 SC.  
if you're going used shop around for a set of MP 62,63,64 irons first. IMO three of the best (which one is "best" could be WRX debated to death) in that iron category MIZUNO has ever made. And I'd play any of them over the MP18-SC.

(edit: to give my opinion context I staffed sets of the MP62 , MP63, and MP4, and currently have MP18 blades)

KLP

Edited by Kenny Lee Puckett, 05 November 2018 - 05:58 PM.

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#14 BCULAW

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 09:28 PM

View PostKenny Lee Puckett, on 05 November 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Postswing thoughts, on 05 November 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

I'm getting some new (used, new for me) irons soon and really like the MP 18 SC.  
if you're going used shop around for a set of MP 62,63,64 irons first. IMO three of the best (which one is "best" could be WRX debated to death) in that iron category MIZUNO has ever made. And I'd play any of them over the MP18-SC.

(edit: to give my opinion context I staffed sets of the MP62 , MP63, and MP4, and currently have MP18 blades)

KLP

Boy, those MP63s were really an afterthought in comparison to the 62s and 64s.  I liked all 3 sets, but thought the 63s were fantastic performers. Longer for me than the other two with slightly denser feel, IMO. The other two were better looking, but the 63s played better.

As for the 18s, I think the differences within the MP line are more about trajectory than forgiveness. MBs will launch a little lower (i.e., be a little harder to elevate) than the SCs, but the actual difference in forgiveness is pretty negligible.




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#15 RodC

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:26 PM

Well, I havenít played the MB but I come from TM M2 irons.
Iím 14 HC and I can tell the MP18SC ARE NOT difficult to play for me.

I love them. I have a set of p790 which has only two rounds ... because the MPscís are reallly great.

One thing I can tell is the correct shaft makes all the difference. I got them with Steelfiber i110 stiff and I really struggled. I replaced the shaft to SFi95 and wow. Different set.

Edited by RodC, 05 November 2018 - 11:26 PM.

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#16 nofxnate28

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:33 PM

Im trying to decide between the mp18 SC and jpx919T. Are the tours really more forgiving!?

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#17 noodle3872

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:46 PM

When I had the SC and MB sets, the only difference I could find was how the wider sole of the SC offered a bit more margin for error on heavy strikes.
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#18 dunn

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:17 AM

MP18 is a design that's been around for along time....I played both SC and MP18 and there isnt much between em....sure there is cuz of cavity but its prolly on slight misses....

Wasnt really a fan of either, but i do love mizuno irons....

Probably has more to do with ballflight than anything

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#19 kiwii

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:27 AM

I feel like the actual forgiveness is minimal it is more mental than anything. The slight cavity back provides the golfer slightly more confidence. The feel is slightly hotter off the face on the SC and the MB is more solid.
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#20 Superbrit

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 04:40 AM

I love mine, and the MMC's in the long irons are also really good, my only gripe is the pitching wedge, a bit big and doesn't seem to match the rest of the set, think im going to change it to a SM7

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#21 rxk9fan

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 06:19 AM

Maybe a little OT, but I have read and I agree there is not a lot of difference between the SC and MMC.  This weekend the MMC made their 3rd trip to the course with me after a long year trying to get back into golf at a decent level. This year I played:MP18- MMC,i200,1210,P750,P770,X-Forged,CB, MP5, and could be forgetting a couple.  
IMO, the MMC is the most forgiving (the way I judge forgiveness on the course) of the bunch.  The big difference for me is that while I hit some greens with all, I was not getting close to the pin near often enough with most. The MP18 MMC is forgiving enough to help some less than good swings, but the good swings give me very, very predictable results. I FINALLY shot even last round for the first time all year and that is because the MMC excelled in tough wind conditions giving the exact flight and distance I expected with my swing.  
In my head, I judge forgiveness by:  
1. What does it do if I miss the center of the face.
2. Also, what does it do if I miss the center with a closed or open face when trying to hit draws and cuts.
3. What does it do when you have a crap lie (in the rough, setting down in a divot, etc.).

For me, clubs like the i210 excelled from the short fairway if you had a wide open shot to the green where trajectory did not matter.  They were horribly unforgiving if I was in the rough and needed to keep the ball under tree limbs, ball in divots and the shot required anything low, etc..  The CB was beautiful on straight shots, but my amateur swing overcooked cuts and draws into the wind.

The MMC and P770 were for me the most forgiving clubs I have played on the course when different shots demand different trajectory, movement, etc.

Just one guys thoughts!

Edited by rxk9fan, 06 November 2018 - 10:38 AM.

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#22 Ryan5508

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 08:08 AM

I have a mixed set of pw-6 mp18 blades. 4-5 SC. 3 FLI-HI.

I wish I would have went full blades. I hit them better and they look better. never noticed any extra forgivess with the SC's.
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#23 moadhia

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 10:28 AM

View Postnofxnate28, on 05 November 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

Im trying to decide between the mp18 SC and jpx919T. Are the tours really more forgiving!?

No noticeable difference between the two. 18sc has a slightly smaller blade length. I have the 919T and hit 18sc when I was deciding to buy. If you are after forgiveness, these are not the right club. They both provide great feedback and give you the ability to vary the trajectory of your shots.

If that's not what you want, look elsewhere. Maybe check 919F or 919HM

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#24 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 10:30 AM

View Postnofxnate28, on 05 November 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

Im trying to decide between the mp18 SC and jpx919T. Are the tours really more forgiving!?
From the 900T to the 919T they made the sole wider and moved more weight to the toe, both of which made it more forgiving (compared to the 900).I prefer the head shape of the 919T to the SC when at address,, so I honestly didnít give the SC the full treatment. I just fell in love the with T. I could easily play the SC though. They are slightly more forgiving than the blade. Itís like when people said the MP 30 was harder to hit than the 33. I played both and that just wasnít true. The SC have a wider cambered sole which alone makes them more playable than the blades. The cavity back allows them to move weight around the head to make it more forgiving. You need to hit them and decide for yourself though.

Edited by WidespreadPanic, 06 November 2018 - 10:57 AM.

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#25 Cwebb

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 11:21 AM

View PostMKPAPA, on 05 November 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Can't say for certain as I don't own a set of either, but I feel like its a common understanding that a cavity back is more forgiving than a muscle back.
With that said, Maltby says otherwise: https://www.golfwork.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf

If MPF is not relative to forgiveness, someone please chime in. I could be wrong

The "SC" have a high sweet-spot (AVCOG) at .906".  This is counter productive for most players, especially in a longer iron.

The MP-18 Fli Hi have an AVCOG of .738"


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#26 swing thoughts

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 11:47 AM

View PostCwebb, on 06 November 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

View PostMKPAPA, on 05 November 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Can't say for certain as I don't own a set of either, but I feel like its a common understanding that a cavity back is more forgiving than a muscle back.
With that said, Maltby says otherwise: https://www.golfwork.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf

If MPF is not relative to forgiveness, someone please chime in. I could be wrong

The "SC" have a high sweet-spot (AVCOG) at .906".  This is counter productive for most players, especially in a longer iron.

The MP-18 Fli Hi have an AVCOG of .738"
Does that mean that balls struck lower on the face are punished?
Ping G SL Tec 9* XS
Callaway XR 15*  R

Cobra Bio Cell Fairway 18.5  S
Titleist 816 H1 21* S
Nike Vapor Pro  4-9  S <or> Mizuno MP 69 4-9

Vokey SM6 48* 10  S
Taylormade Tour Preferred EF 52* 10  S
Taylormade Tour Preferred EF 58* ATV  S

Odyssey Versa #7 35"
Taylormade Daddy Long Legs 38"
Scotty Futura X5 38"
Callaway Bobby Jones blade 35"

26

#27 Cwebb

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 12:01 PM

View Postswing thoughts, on 06 November 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

View PostCwebb, on 06 November 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

View PostMKPAPA, on 05 November 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Can't say for certain as I don't own a set of either, but I feel like its a common understanding that a cavity back is more forgiving than a muscle back.
With that said, Maltby says otherwise: https://www.golfwork.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf

If MPF is not relative to forgiveness, someone please chime in. I could be wrong

The "SC" have a high sweet-spot (AVCOG) at .906".  This is counter productive for most players, especially in a longer iron.

The MP-18 Fli Hi have an AVCOG of .738"
Does that mean that balls struck lower on the face are punished?

Yes.  Solid contact in the 'vertical aspect' of impact, comes from getting the COG of the head design at or better yet below the center (COG) of the ball.  The center of a ball is .840", so any head design with an Actual Vertical COG that is higher than that, tends to more difficult to hit for most players.

So in the example above, the Fli-Hi has more room to work with in the vertical aspect of contact.....making them easier to hit and "more playable" for most.

For reference, your Mp-69's were measured at .790" and the Vapor Pros at .885"

Edited by Cwebb, 06 November 2018 - 12:05 PM.


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#28 Z1ggy16

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 12:29 PM

Not exactly what you asked but I hit the SC's vs the 919 Forged and found the forged's to be much more forgiving in terms of flight and ball speed. The SC's felt and seemed to play much more like a true blade... just a touch bigger than the regular MP18.

Edit: And if I'm read this maltby table right... the "MPF" number would indicate that higher number =  easier to hit. If that's the case... the  SC's are be harder to hit than the 900 tours (135  vs 355). Heck... even the bladed MP-18 is 284! It's actually the lowest MPF on the whole list.. less than MP18 blades and also less than MP4 and 5 blades, which look to be fairly forgiving for blades.

Edited by Z1ggy16, 06 November 2018 - 12:42 PM.

WITB
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

SW - MD4 54/12W S200
LW MD4 58/12X S200 (Glide 2.0 & SM7 in test)
P - TP Black Copper Juno
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Sun Mountain 4.5 Bag

28

#29 swing thoughts

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:42 PM

It's interesting that all the more "professional" reviews say the SC is much more forgiving than the blade, but everything I've heard here and on the course is the opposite. Makes you wonder about those reviewers...

I'm torn because I hit them and a couple other irons when getting fitted for iron shafts and hit them well and loved them, but that was indoors on a mat and a machine, so my experience on the course could be completely different. Sucks because I've had my heart on them for a while now but everyone says they are pretty difficult to hit! Oh, well, such is life.
Ping G SL Tec 9* XS
Callaway XR 15*  R

Cobra Bio Cell Fairway 18.5  S
Titleist 816 H1 21* S
Nike Vapor Pro  4-9  S <or> Mizuno MP 69 4-9

Vokey SM6 48* 10  S
Taylormade Tour Preferred EF 52* 10  S
Taylormade Tour Preferred EF 58* ATV  S

Odyssey Versa #7 35"
Taylormade Daddy Long Legs 38"
Scotty Futura X5 38"
Callaway Bobby Jones blade 35"

29

#30 Cwebb

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:47 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 06 November 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Not exactly what you asked but I hit the SC's vs the 919 Forged and found the forged's to be much more forgiving in terms of flight and ball speed. The SC's felt and seemed to play much more like a true blade... just a touch bigger than the regular MP18.

Edit: And if I'm read this maltby table right... the "MPF" number would indicate that higher number =  easier to hit. If that's the case... the  SC's are be harder to hit than the 900 tours (135  vs 355). Heck... even the bladed MP-18 is 284! It's actually the lowest MPF on the whole list.. less than MP18 blades and also less than MP4 and 5 blades, which look to be fairly forgiving for blades.

Any design that has a sweet-spot (AVCOG) higher than .840" is penalized in the MPF.  A higher sweet-spot is simply "harder to find" on a consistent basis from normal to tighter lies (not an 'up' lie), for most players


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