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Ultimate Tiger Mom


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#1 BertGA

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:22 AM

Mom's behavior, and player's failure to call a penalty, lead to disqualification from LPGA Q-Series.

After her daughter's ball landed OB, the mother kicked it back in. The competitor was told her baal had been moved, but chose to play from the new location without assessing a penalty. She was DQ'd after completion of the hole.

From golf.com:  

"Sources told both Golf Channel and Golfweek that Chen’s mother had moved the ball back into play. An LPGA source told Randell Mell of Golf Channel that a homeowner on the course witnessed the infraction and described the woman to LPGA officials, who identified the culprit as Chen’s mother, Yuh-Guey Lin."


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#2 augustgolf

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:43 AM

View PostBertGA, on 05 November 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

Mom's behavior, and player's failure to call a penalty, lead to disqualification from LPGA Q-Series.

After her daughter's ball landed OB, the mother kicked it back in. The competitor was told her baal had been moved, but chose to play from the new location without assessing a penalty. She was DQ'd after completion of the hole.

From golf.com:  

"Sources told both Golf Channel and Golfweek that Chen’s mother had moved the ball back into play. An LPGA source told Randell Mell of Golf Channel that a homeowner on the course witnessed the infraction and described the woman to LPGA officials, who identified the culprit as Chen’s mother, Yuh-Guey Lin."

Soon she will be able (and willing) to play in charity scrambles. Make sure that her mother keeps score.
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#3 leftyDH04

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:54 AM

Ironically, I was talking with a competitor in our club championship and he expressed concern a FC's wife might do exactly that.  The players were walking but she has an super fast private cart and would speed off to her hubby's drive from the tee box.  She's an accomplished player too, and they both have that type of reputation.

Glad the Mom got caught.  Sad statement, clearly they invested too much in their daughters' golf dream.

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#4 TigerMom

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:12 AM

Cheating is bad

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#5 Tad

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:23 AM

why play if You have to cheat?

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#6 Stooch

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:26 AM

To quote Forrest Gump: "Stupid is, as stupid does" lol

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#7 BrandonDunes

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:35 AM

The good ole "I had no idea I was breaking the law"
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#8 From_Parts_Unknown

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:41 AM

Why couldn't my parents have helped me like this in junior golf and college?  Heck, I'm pretty sure my dad may have kicked a few of my drives from in bounds to out of bounds instead.

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#9 BoogieThumper

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:42 AM

Someone help me understand the title of this thread? Tiger mom?
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#10 smeech8000

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:43 AM

View PostleftyDH04, on 05 November 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Ironically, I was talking with a competitor in our club championship and he expressed concern a FC's wife might do exactly that.  The players were walking but she has an super fast private cart and would speed off to her hubby's drive from the tee box.  She's an accomplished player too, and they both have that type of reputation.

Glad the Mom got caught.  Sad statement, clearly they invested too much in their daughters' golf dream.

Did the guy you were talking to also arrange a "spectator" for that round?

View PostBoogieThumper, on 05 November 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Someone help me understand the title of this thread? Tiger mom?

https://en.wikipedia...Tiger_parenting

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#11 BoogieThumper

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:45 AM

View Postsmeech8000, on 05 November 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

View PostleftyDH04, on 05 November 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Ironically, I was talking with a competitor in our club championship and he expressed concern a FC's wife might do exactly that.  The players were walking but she has an super fast private cart and would speed off to her hubby's drive from the tee box.  She's an accomplished player too, and they both have that type of reputation.

Glad the Mom got caught.  Sad statement, clearly they invested too much in their daughters' golf dream.

Did the guy you were talking to also arrange a "spectator" for that round?

View PostBoogieThumper, on 05 November 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Someone help me understand the title of this thread? Tiger mom?

https://en.wikipedia...Tiger_parenting
Thank you sir
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#12 rcb1586

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:57 AM

I don't know how she was playing in the 7th round when she got DQ'd but she was +14 through the first 6 rounds.
+10 ended up being the cutoff. Unless she was having a great day, it sounds like it was a long shot for her to make the top 45.
If my ball got moved during a competition, I would definitely be talking to a rules official. The fact that she didn't makes me suspicious.

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"Chen, 25, had been tied for 74th in the 102-player field after the sixth round at 14 over par, six strokes out of 45th place. The top 45 finishers and ties at the conclusion of the inaugural eight-round event earned LPGA Tour cards for 2019."
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#13 hardcaliber

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:09 PM

I have a feeling this will go the way of the Kang-Dahmen thread.

It sounds like the mom definitely intentionally cheated, which is deplorable but I guess she gets some points for dedicated parenting.

I don't know whether I consider the player to have cheated or not.  If she was in on it, of course she cheated.  I would hate to think this is some kind of regular stunt they have done.

Lets suppose that you hit an tee shot, walked up to it a few minutes later, and when you got there, some random person told you your ball had been moved.  I'm not sure I would really be inclined to believe them. My first instinct would be to  get help from some kind of rules official.  Not really sure what I would do if there were no rules official to weigh in readily available, but I don't think I would just take a huge penalty based on the word of some random stranger with no further corroboration.   I might be inclined to blow them off and continue playing unless perhaps there was a big crowd of people to corroborate.

If the player did not know that her mom was doing this, I think it would be a very tough situation to navigate.  I don't really think golfers in the heat of intense competition should have an affirmative responsibility to take the word of competitors, spectators, or whoever else in the absence of official word from a tournament official.  There really needs to be some kind of mechanism to allow you to continue competition and sort it out ASAP through official channels without massive penalization for not immediately falling on the sword.

Edited by hardcaliber, 05 November 2018 - 12:12 PM.


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#14 f5joe

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:28 PM

What's encouraging to me is that Chen's caddie shared the truth as he witnessed it ...... apparently, after being told to keep quiet by Chen.

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#15 davep043

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:30 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

If the player did not know that her mom was doing this, I think it would be a very tough situation to navigate.  I don't really think golfers in the heat of intense competition should have an affirmative responsibility to take the word of competitors, spectators, or whoever else in the absence of official word from a tournament official.  There really needs to be some kind of mechanism to allow you to continue competition and sort it out ASAP through official channels without massive penalization for not immediately falling on the sword.
If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency, the ball MUST be replaced.  Its a simple rule, (18-1, Ball at Rest Moved) and its not legaleze, its really plain english. The player was told that the ball had moved, but still chose to play it from the spot that it had ended up. She should know better.  It doesn't really matter who moved it, her mother is an outside agency, just like every other spectator.
If the player didn't quite believe a single spectator's account, she should have played two balls, one from the original location, and one from the location where she found it.  There's a decision on this specific situation.  If the spectator had indicated that the ball's original location was out of bounds, she should have played a ball from the tee, in addition to the ball played from where she found it.  As it works out, she played a wrong ball, she didn't correct her mistake before teeing off on the next hole, so she's DQ.  This is really simple to me, she really should know the rules that govern her career better.  And that's totally separate from any discussion of cheating,


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#16 davep043

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:32 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

If the player did not know that her mom was doing this, I think it would be a very tough situation to navigate.  I don't really think golfers in the heat of intense competition should have an affirmative responsibility to take the word of competitors, spectators, or whoever else in the absence of official word from a tournament official.  There really needs to be some kind of mechanism to allow you to continue competition and sort it out ASAP through official channels without massive penalization for not immediately falling on the sword.
There is, play two balls.  See decision 18-1/4, which is about exactly that kind of uncertainty.

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#17 Krt22

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:36 PM

Poor move by the Mom, but I think the actions of the player are even worse given she was the one in competition and being an NCAA champ certainly knows the Rules of Golf. She absolutely had to know she couldn't hit that ball, she's only sorry now because she got caught.

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#18 hardcaliber

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:54 PM

View Postdavep043, on 05 November 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

If the player did not know that her mom was doing this, I think it would be a very tough situation to navigate.  I don't really think golfers in the heat of intense competition should have an affirmative responsibility to take the word of competitors, spectators, or whoever else in the absence of official word from a tournament official.  There really needs to be some kind of mechanism to allow you to continue competition and sort it out ASAP through official channels without massive penalization for not immediately falling on the sword.
There is, play two balls.  See decision 18-1/4, which is about exactly that kind of uncertainty.

I wasn't aware of that option, haven't seen it happen before.  

So yes, she should have played two balls.

How much time does that buy you to definitively resolve the issue?

I have no idea how easy or difficult it is in this type of tournament to get an official over promptly to provide a definite answer.

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#19 davep043

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:05 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 05 November 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

If the player did not know that her mom was doing this, I think it would be a very tough situation to navigate.  I don't really think golfers in the heat of intense competition should have an affirmative responsibility to take the word of competitors, spectators, or whoever else in the absence of official word from a tournament official.  There really needs to be some kind of mechanism to allow you to continue competition and sort it out ASAP through official channels without massive penalization for not immediately falling on the sword.
There is, play two balls.  See decision 18-1/4, which is about exactly that kind of uncertainty.

I wasn't aware of that option, haven't seen it happen before.  

So yes, she should have played two balls.

How much time does that buy you to definitively resolve the issue?

I have no idea how easy or difficult it is in this type of tournament to get an official over promptly to provide a definite answer.
I'm sure you have to resolve any question before you turn in the scorecard, but I'm not sure how the mechanics would have worked in this case.  Similarly, I don't know how difficult it would have been to get an official there right away.  I'm guessing that none of us will ever really know what the spectator said, or how certain the spectator was about the original location of the ball.  It seems to me that someone found the spectator to be credible enough to penalize and eventually DQ the player.  
I have a totally un-provable opinion about this.  I think the player knew she wasn't going to qualify, so she just didn't want to walk back to the tee, or take the time to wait for an official.  If she actually had accidentally done the right thing, fine, and if she was DQ, nothing lost.  Again, just my guess.

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#20 the bishop

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:08 PM

View Postf5joe, on 05 November 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

What's encouraging to me is that Chen's caddie shared the truth as he witnessed it ...... apparently, after being told to keep quiet by Chen.
Yeah I just read the caddie's account and one thing is for certain - only one can be right.  And the optics look pretty bad for Chen.

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#21 Krt22

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:21 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

I'm sure you have to resolve any question before you turn in the scorecard, but I'm not sure how the mechanics would have worked in this case.  Similarly, I don't know how difficult it would have been to get an official there right away.  I'm guessing that none of us will ever really know what the spectator said, or how certain the spectator was about the original location of the ball.  It seems to me that someone found the spectator to be credible enough to penalize and eventually DQ the player.  
I have a totally un-provable opinion about this.  I think the player knew she wasn't going to qualify, so she just didn't want to walk back to the tee, or take the time to wait for an official.  If she actually had accidentally done the right thing, fine, and if she was DQ, nothing lost.  Again, just my guess.

I agree that I don't think she wanted to walk back to the tee, hence the poor decision. Not so sure thinking she was out of the running is what prevented that from happening. I'd be more inclined to think she knew if she went back and hit 3 off the tee her slim chance to come back would become even more slim, so she took the risk to play it

And in the case of hitting from the wrong spot, I believe it needs to be addressed before playing the next hole

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#22 Redjeep83

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:27 PM

Ironically there is a poster with the screen name “Tiger mom” in this thread

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#23 Noles

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:34 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 05 November 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

I have a feeling this will go the way of the Kang-Dahmen thread.

It sounds like the mom definitely intentionally cheated, which is deplorable but I guess she gets some points for dedicated parenting.

I don't know whether I consider the player to have cheated or not.  If she was in on it, of course she cheated.  I would hate to think this is some kind of regular stunt they have done.

Lets suppose that you hit an tee shot, walked up to it a few minutes later, and when you got there, some random person told you your ball had been moved.  I'm not sure I would really be inclined to believe them. My first instinct would be to  get help from some kind of rules official.  Not really sure what I would do if there were no rules official to weigh in readily available, but I don't think I would just take a huge penalty based on the word of some random stranger with no further corroboration.   I might be inclined to blow them off and continue playing unless perhaps there was a big crowd of people to corroborate.

If the player did not know that her mom was doing this, I think it would be a very tough situation to navigate.  I don't really think golfers in the heat of intense competition should have an affirmative responsibility to take the word of competitors, spectators, or whoever else in the absence of official word from a tournament official.  There really needs to be some kind of mechanism to allow you to continue competition and sort it out ASAP through official channels without massive penalization for not immediately falling on the sword.
If she knew her mother was following her, and she didn't suspect her mother of anything, then when she was told that her ball had been moved, I think her first instinct would be to ask her mom if she saw anything.  That fact that she didn't ask her mom is telling to me.

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#24 Birdie Mac

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 03:29 PM

Lot of ugliness in this story. I commend the caddy for speaking up and setting the story straight as he saw it. Integrity is in short supply these days, it seems. I'm not in a position to say whether or not she intentionally played fast and loose with the rules, but in golf you don't want that impression anywhere near you. Being accused of cheating is like getting a bad tattoo-very hard to get rid of it.

I hope the caddy would have made the same decision had there been big money on the line for the both of them.

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#25 Krt22

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:26 PM

I think it's safe to say this is likely his first and last tourney on her bag lol


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#26 Golfnuck

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:45 PM

View PostKrt22, on 05 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think it's safe to say this is likely his first and last tourney on her bag lol

By the caddie's choice !!!!!!!

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#27 Sixcat

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:50 PM

View PostGolfnuck, on 05 November 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostKrt22, on 05 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think it's safe to say this is likely his first and last tourney on her bag lol

By the caddie's choice !!!!!!!

He likely earned himself favor among other players in the process and won't be without a bag long.

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#28 Golfer4Life

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:03 PM

View PostKrt22, on 05 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think it's safe to say this is likely his first and last tourney on her bag lol

Well, she doesn't have a job, so....
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#29 kekoa

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:09 PM

View PostRedjeep83, on 05 November 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Ironically there is a poster with the screen name "Tiger mom" in this thread

No, we are talking about the 'Ultimate' Tiger Mom here.

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#30 propredicr

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:22 PM

Just read the last response in the interview exerpt from her win in 2010.  

Interview With Champion Doris Chen
JULY 23, 2010
By USGA
BETH MURRISON: We are very happy to have with us the 2010 U.S. Girls' Junior champion, Doris Chen. Can you talk a little bit about your feelings about winning the championship.

DORIS CHEN: I feel great. I learned a lot. This afternoon I really played in a different way than before. In the first round I was very serious. In the second round I was very relaxed.

Q.    Did you say something to yourself between the first and second rounds to change your approach?

DORIS CHEN: No. Second round, I was just like, I don't care anymore, I'm just going to enjoy and just play. I don't really care about win or lose.

Q.  Did you feel like you were putting a lot of pressure on yourself in the morning?

DORIS CHEN: Yeah, I think so. I think I pushed myself too hard this morning.

Q. How did you deal with the heat today? It was very hot today.

DORIS CHEN: Yeah, yeah. I just stole my mom's umbrella.

Q. Between the two rounds?

DORIS CHEN: Yeah. After the first round.

Q. You stole it?

DORIS CHEN: I just take it (laughter). I said, Mom, you can just walk under the trees (laughter).🤔

Edited by propredicr, 05 November 2018 - 05:25 PM.


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