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Chipping yips and utterly wrecked confidence.

yips

103 replies to this topic

#31 dlygrisse

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:53 AM

 anth, on 04 November 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

I've never had a great short game but something that helped me recently was watching guys like Brett Rumford or JM Olazabal.  They use a lot of body rotation in their chipping

http://twitter.com/d...9080643587?s=21

I think people have forgotten how good JMO was.  Brilliant short game and iron player.

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#32 harolease

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:00 AM

Tiger went through this a few years ago
Itís not all mechanical
Lack of confidence
Trying now chipping techniques
Performance anxiety
All play a role


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#33 David C

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:15 PM

 Lukulos, on 05 November 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 David C, on 05 November 2018 - 03:16 AM, said:

Practice a few swings back and forth, just relaxed and letting the club swing. Nice fluid rhythm.

Stay in motion. Stop freezing over it. Square everything up. Play the ball one ball width ahead of centre. Hands forward so level with front edge of the ball. Let the club swing. Stop thinking about contact and just let the clubhead swing through an area somewhere between your feet. At some point the ball will be contacted and it will fly forward.

I appreciate the response, but mentally I was so screwed up in those moments on the course that I could not even get the basics to work. My buddy described it as alligator arms at the ball which felt like a spasm to me.

I think I would rewrite what I wrote as kind of emergency practice. Not for the course. On the course you need a mental button to press to clear your head, have a pre shot routine.

I had a playing lesson years ago and we walked off to the practice green. Started with right hand only, one handed chips, keeping the blade square and rolling the hands to make the chip run on others. Then dropped 12 balls in a clock round the green, all sorts of lies, and just chipped the ball on.

Pre shot routine on the course proper.

Someone wrote:


For you to understand all this you need to understand how the club is going to impact the ball. If you don't have a clue on this find an instructor who will teach it to you.  


I respectfully disagree. I think you need to get less finicky and just let the magic happen. Feel impact donít think it but even then, itís a feel afterwards.

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#34 David C

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:18 PM

 dlygrisse, on 05 November 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

 anth, on 04 November 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

I've never had a great short game but something that helped me recently was watching guys like Brett Rumford or JM Olazabal.  They use a lot of body rotation in their chipping

http://twitter.com/d...9080643587?s=21

I think people have forgotten how good JMO was.  Brilliant short game and iron player.

Best chipper bar none. Aggressive too whilst just chipping it over the fringe. His contact sounds so solid. And has a similar looking motion but flights it differently.

I think people forget a chip is all about controlling energy, you just need to chip it over an obstacle. Chip, not pitch. Will the ball onwards to the hole. Watch Ollie and he just seems to have this punchy but crisp rhythm.

Edited by David C, 05 November 2018 - 02:21 PM.


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#35 starsail85

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 07:23 PM

 Jim Waldron, on 04 November 2018 - 08:34 PM, said:

I work with folks with the yips on a regular basis and have a proven Yips Cure program that has a very high rate of success.

First thing is to understand what a yip actually is and it is certainly NOT just one of many forms of bad golf shots.

It is bad golf shots caused precisely by a sudden and high level increase in muscle tension in one or muscles in the body, especially common in upper arms, forearms, wrists and hands.

The spasm of tension then causes a ripple effect throughout the body and gets you in some really bad positions with both body and club.

That is the definition of a Yip Impulse.

Once you have that impulse, you quickly realize the root cause of the impulse itself s 100% mental/emotional - and not mechanical in any way.

And yet most golfers mistakenly think that the root cause of the impulse is physical.  It's not and the failure to understand that simple truth sends a lot golfers with yips on a wild goose chase for a purely mechanical solution.

I have never seen any golfers with moderate to severe intensity yips who did not also have a strong sense of fear, anxiety or loss of confidence. Those issues need to be addressed for the cure to really work long term.

And also never seen a person with yips whose mind was not chaotic and wandering all over the place and attending to exactly the wrong things, such as the golf ball, or impact, or picturing the clubhead.

In short game yips a mind frozen on and worried about impact is almost universal.

The yip Impulse is the subconscious mind's way of compensating for total loss of confidence.

And that loss of confidence is always the result of usually many years of bad shots, due mostly to poor technique, that accumulates over time.  Eventually your "confidence pool" has no more water left, and the next shot you face will trigger the Yip Impulse.

This is so true , and I can really relate to the endless chasing mechanical fixes thing . Iíve pretty much cured the yips I have with wedges and it was definitely a mental/emotional issue , but Iíd try and fix it with mechanical feels or thoughts . Iíd find something that would work , and work great for 3-5 practice sessions before the flinches creep back in . Every time the flinch creeps back in . I was over the ball thinking about doing some technical thing ( turn the shoulders , keep the right arm moving , keep the club outside the hands , rhythm etc ) but they would all eventually erode and break down , so Iíd seek out another fix

A few years ago I tried chipping with no swing thoughts or feel , just a few practice swings and go into autopilot and no thoughts . I donít yip any more

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#36 theothertwo

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 07:38 PM

No advice here.  It happens to the best, sorry you are going thru it but I think all of us go through these motions sometimes and then, we get out of it, and life is good again.
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#37 A.Princey

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 08:20 PM

Easiest way to avoid huge mistakes is to chip with a club that requires the shortest backswing at any given length. Seriously, play the ball back, add some forward press and make quick putting type strokes grazing the grass moderately. Most of my chipping and pitching is done this way and I don't even struggle with the yips. Wrist hinge and lengthy backswings are death moves for a yipper.
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#38 Obee

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 08:53 PM

You have had one day of chipping/pitching yips. LOTS of people go through this for varying amounts of time. You clearly care about the game of golf a considerable amount -- that's a good thing, but it's also something that almost everyone with the yips has in common: A deep, abiding care of the game of golf.

I respect Monte as a teacher very much, but yips are RARELY caused solely by mechanical issues (for decent players who have been good chippers/pitchers for most/all of their golfing lives).

It's easy to fall into the "well I just need to fix _____ issue and my yips will go away" Except for the overwhelming majority of sufferers, NOTHING (solely) mechanical they do makes the yip go away.

I cured my putting yips with a combination of the mechanical (the claw) and a simultaneous complete and utter re-thinking of what it means to "putt" in the first place.

I will give you one piece of advice at this point: Do NOT give "power" to the yips. View them as a mere curiosity -- something that "intrigues" you for the moment. Nothing more.

Best of luck to you.

Edited by Obee, 05 November 2018 - 09:15 PM.

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#39 Steele47

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 09:14 PM

I've had this problem for close to 35 years.  I have found though hitting pitches with the right hand only,  not really even worrying about contact,  is a great drill.  I have noticed if I spend 5 minutes of right hand only shots right before a round has positive effects.  Some rounds I give away a heck of a lot of shots because of chip yips.  I just don't worry about it much viewing it as something that comes and goes.

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#40 b.helts

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:19 PM

Were you drinking?


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#41 2ball

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:33 PM

 Lukulos, on 04 November 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

 MonteScheinblum, on 04 November 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

It could be several things.

Excess lower body
Lack of ulnar deviation
Backswing too long
Several setup issues
Some combo
Etc.

Have to see it.

I have some  stuff to look up now which is great. Problem was warming up before rounds I could hit many solid chips and pitches in a row. My hunch is something mental is causing some physical break down in my swing on the course or at least it was the past 2 days.

it is mental and i am in the process of fixing this as well. I can chip well in warm ups and have hit (I'm not kidding) 10,000 or more chip shots trying to fix the yips. Many will tell you it is technique and they can fix it. Well they are right it is technique but they cannot fix it. You are the only one who can fix it - on the course under stressfull situations.  What i have discovered is under pressure your mind plays tricks, your tempo changes and the reason it is so hard to fix is because wedge shots are finese shots. Let us know how you are doing with it. if it is the end of the season put the clubs away for 5-6 months that may help as well.

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#42 wkuo3

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 11:22 PM

"from an awkward bermuda grass overseeded lie, greenside"  

This was the start of the perfect storm.  Playing with strangers on some historical golf courses, chipping from the over-seeded Bermuda.  
When the lie is tough or not familiar, you'll need to take quite a few practice swing to find out how your club will react to the condition and choose your weapon accordingly.
Even seen the pros make many practice swing with situation like that and either changed the club in hands or decided on a different shot ?

Thick Bermuda is tough to get out, there is no wishy washy there, a decisive and firm execution is what needed.  Practice more on these kind of shots.  How did the pros get to be so good ?  Because they practice their weakest side of their golf game until they could handle it proficiently.

Someone said it well, the more you make it, the more you'll make.  Confidence is built on experience not fairy tales from some psychologist's couch.

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#43 aliikane

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:13 AM

I've played the game my entire life, currently have the yips as well. Both in putting and chipping. It is better, but not completely resolved. It is the second time in my life I have had them. The yips are absolutely horrible. Will turn you into a hack quickly.  It is all mental, but can be solved by thinking on the right things rather than the wrong things. Both times I had them, I realized that my right and left hands were fighting against each other. Not working together. For me, my right hand was taking over.

For putting, I changed my grip twice. The first time I went to left hand low. Loved the left hand low grip. Puts such a great roll and tracks a line so well. Putted the best in my life for a few years then got the yips again out of nowhere. Recently I had to change to the claw grip and it works. I have to really focus on smooth tempo. The claw grip is the only grip I can use yip-free right now. I hate the claw (because I'm a traditionalist) but it is all i got and can putt pretty good with it. Haha.

For chipping, I solved them by just spending a lot of time chipping. Technically, using the big muscles, trying to keep my hands quieter and working together better. Also, again focusing a lot on smooth tempo with a simple 1-2 count.

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#44 rdangelo1077

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 09:05 AM

I've recently gone through this as well. I'm usually half-way decent at leaving myself on the correct side of the green when I miss, nothing really between me and the pin so pretty easy chips with plenty of green to work with. I've been blading easy chips or completely duffing them two feet in front of me. Started putting anything even remotely close to the putting surface. Took some videos on the chipping green and realized how flat I had gone with my backswing causing me to bottom out way to soon on the way back down. To work on this I placed a ball about 6-8 inches behind the ball I intend to hit forcing me to create a steeper backswing. I also really worked on bringing the club face back to my left at finish. I couldn't believe how much this helped with contact consistency and spin as a result of better contact. I've been doing this every night in my basement for 30 minutes and just working on the mechanics. The next hurdle is bringing this to the course and being confident with what I've been working on.
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#45 Frozen Divots

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 12:48 PM

The yips is a misfire because youíve directed the primary to act as the sole motive power source. The secondary muscles have been ignored and over time became less effective and when needed, do not respond correctly.

In a reactive motion, the signal is Ďall hands on deckí and the muscle groups respond Ďas a teamí.

In a proactive motion, over time we can see a biased signal to our muscles which cause problems.

In truth what we do is literally measure and react to frequencies. We have all sorts of Ďthingsí we use to read these frequencies and respond accordingly.

The Ďblackoutí is a literal misfire where you have a lower or higher frequency that you werenít really for. It isnít processed at all.

Itís a motion sensor that reads a higher frequency still being used when a low one comes, or the other way around.

That being said, the solution is usually reversing the proximal-distal response to distal-proximal or reverse, depending on the issue.

Everything we do is based off our center of gravity and there are all sorts of reading and commands that go off of intent and location of our center of gravity in space.

The center of gravity is proximal and the yips in a full swing are more proximal to distal related and putting is usually the opposite.

Think of how a gyroscope works, we are a very complex gyroscope.







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#46 Lukulos

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 01:06 PM

 Obee, on 05 November 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

You have had one day of chipping/pitching yips. LOTS of people go through this for varying amounts of time. You clearly care about the game of golf a considerable amount -- that's a good thing, but it's also something that almost everyone with the yips has in common: A deep, abiding care of the game of golf.

I respect Monte as a teacher very much, but yips are RARELY caused solely by mechanical issues (for decent players who have been good chippers/pitchers for most/all of their golfing lives).

It's easy to fall into the "well I just need to fix _____ issue and my yips will go away" Except for the overwhelming majority of sufferers, NOTHING (solely) mechanical they do makes the yip go away.

I cured my putting yips with a combination of the mechanical (the claw) and a simultaneous complete and utter re-thinking of what it means to "putt" in the first place.

I will give you one piece of advice at this point: Do NOT give "power" to the yips. View them as a mere curiosity -- something that "intrigues" you for the moment. Nothing more.

Best of luck to you.

This is probably the best advice. I feel much better a few days out from the event even though I've only had one chipping session since then. Thank you everyone for your comments. Reading them has given me a lot of perspective on the situation.
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#47 starsail85

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:48 PM

 Frozen Divots, on 06 November 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

The yips is a misfire because youíve directed the primary to act as the sole motive power source. The secondary muscles have been ignored and over time became less effective and when needed, do not respond correctly.

In a reactive motion, the signal is Ďall hands on deckí and the muscle groups respond Ďas a teamí.

In a proactive motion, over time we can see a biased signal to our muscles which cause problems.

In truth what we do is literally measure and react to frequencies. We have all sorts of Ďthingsí we use to read these frequencies and respond accordingly.

The Ďblackoutí is a literal misfire where you have a lower or higher frequency that you werenít really for. It isnít processed at all.

Itís a motion sensor that reads a higher frequency still being used when a low one comes, or the other way around.

That being said, the solution is usually reversing the proximal-distal response to distal-proximal or reverse, depending on the issue.

Everything we do is based off our center of gravity and there are all sorts of reading and commands that go off of intent and location of our center of gravity in space.

The center of gravity is proximal and the yips in a full swing are more proximal to distal related and putting is usually the opposite.

Think of how a gyroscope works, we are a very complex gyroscope.

Not heard some of this stuff before , really interesting , I like the thing you say regarding proactive motion
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#48 Sipper

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:18 PM

Check out Mark Heinemann Getgolfing on Youtube
''How I fixed my short game yips''
https://youtu.be/dzVvb_mGgAw
and
https://youtu.be/lLPk7J0jZz4

Edited by Sipper, 10 November 2018 - 12:03 PM.


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#49 SurfDuffer

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 07:27 PM

I've battled chipping and pitching yips for as long as I've played the game.  Its embarrassing.  I can best describe the moment I start the down forward swing on a chip or pitch as pure panic.  Chunk & blade.  If I practice a lot I can overcome it and get to an acceptable level but a week without work and its like my first day on the job again.  I may be the worst chipping and pitching single digit handicap on the planet.
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#50 Conner Golf

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 02:26 AM

Whenever I hit a bad chip I feel it is from just going through the motion of the swing. This is way I always try to concentrate on the aim of my leading edge, sliding it forward and downward centered between my ball and the grass. Leading to perfect contact. A higher concentration for precise contact may be why your sand play is well.


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#51 middie8

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:57 AM

 MonteScheinblum, on 04 November 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

It could be several things.

Excess lower body
Lack of ulnar deviation
Backswing too long
Several setup issues
Some combo
Etc.

Have to see it.

i can attest to this. had a in person lesson with monte and he fixed me in two swings.  and it was something i had not considered and had tried almost everything.  i had way to much lower body drive for such a short shot.  he gave me two drills to work on and its really helped.

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#52 tiger1873

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 11:25 AM

 Lukulos, on 05 November 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

 tiger1873, on 05 November 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

My daughter had this problem. Figured out that the issue was caused by just plain and simple setup and changes to make things repeatable.   You have to make sure when you setup that you do it the same time every time and nothing can change and the most import thing is it's repeatable. You also need to account for uneven lies and so forth.  If your off by an 1/8 of an inch you going to get problems.  

For you to understand all this you need to understand how the club is going to impact the ball. If you don't have a clue on this find an instructor who will teach it to you.  

This is the same for any club including the putter and is something a lot people don't mention but every good player knows.


This is hard to believe because I have had success with this set up and technique for 8+ years now. I'm leaning towards the foreign conditions(overseeded bermuda turf that I have never played on) causing a mental hiccup in my brain causing a physical breakdown in my down swing on chips.


It not your technique or setup that is the issue.  It hard to explain but make sure something that you have a reference on things like how far you are from the club.  Don't just eye the club and say 6 inches away from chest.  Use two fist from chest instead or how you let the club lie perhaps you let your elbow touch you chest.  It doesn't really matter what you use. You just  just can't have that can creep in and cause randomness because you could be off and you will never know it. Trying to fix things just causes more problems that is why it so dangerous.

Edited by tiger1873, 07 November 2018 - 11:41 AM.


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#53 Dvokally313

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:56 PM

Iíve had chipping yips for 8 years and for the last 5 years Iíve had Driver yips.  I can hammer a driver in warm ups or on a range no problem throw me on the tee and I have involuntary muscle spasms right before I hit the ball and there is no telling where the thing is going. I am a solid 2 handicap if I play 3 wood off every tee.  If I hit driver I would be a 10-12. Itís that bad.  I depend on hitting a lot of greens and if I miss I putt through everything.  I also developed putting yips real bad so I use a long putter now.  I would give anything to murder the word yips because it has completely changed me and I hate it.  But I love this game good luck my friend.

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#54 theothertwo

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 10:47 PM

Try this until you get your confidence back.

Paul Runyan

https://www.youtube....h?v=1VZ_GdIYaJU
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#55 bdcava

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 11:23 AM

I’m a CY sufferer. I’m just thankful they changed the double hit rule. I’m going to improve by a stroke or two a round!


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#56 Cpm881

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 12:46 PM

I battle the yips on chips and pitches. About 80% mental for me and 20% mechanics. Hitting lots of chips/pitches has helped build confidence back up. Started chipping with hybrid and moved up to more lofted clubs as I gained confidence. Sometimes I had to go back down to hybrid when I lost confidence. I focus on rhythm to try to block out the panic and fear... lol. For mechanics, I started engaging bounce more on all chips and pitches, which in turn helped my confidence (I can fat one with bounce engaged and it's not terrible).

And most importantly, DON'T TELL ANYONE YOU HAVE THE YIPS!!!!

Will make it harder to get rid of them if people are constantly reminding you after a boned chip

Good luck
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#57 Obee

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 12:54 PM

 Dvokally313, on 07 November 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

I've had chipping yips for 8 years and for the last 5 years I've had Driver yips.  I can hammer a driver in warm ups or on a range no problem throw me on the tee and I have involuntary muscle spasms right before I hit the ball and there is no telling where the thing is going. I am a solid 2 handicap if I play 3 wood off every tee.  If I hit driver I would be a 10-12. It's that bad.  I depend on hitting a lot of greens and if I miss I putt through everything.  I also developed putting yips real bad so I use a long putter now.  I would give anything to murder the word yips because it has completely changed me and I hate it.  But I love this game good luck my friend.

Have a look at the post by Von_Oberhausen on his journey to cure his driver yips....
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#58 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 02:01 PM

Dude,

Bermuda grass is the answer,  Very hard to play off of and out of if you're a life long bent grass guy (like us Canadians)

Watch the pro's on TV on grainy tight Bermuda .. like the  Bahamas events . .they are all putting

From the rough, it visually was throwing you off as it looks impossible even though it isn't

Dormant muddy wet Bermuda is a nightmare for all but southerners IMO
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#59 Lukulos

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 02:04 PM

 cardoustie, on 08 November 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Dude,

Bermuda grass is the answer,  Very hard to play off of and out of if you're a life long bent grass guy (like us Canadians)

Watch the pro's on TV on grainy tight Bermuda .. like the  Bahamas events . .they are all putting

From the rough, it visually was throwing you off as it looks impossible even though it isn't

Dormant muddy wet Bermuda is a nightmare for all but southerners IMO


I am more and more confident that this was the root cause. I played a cold windy round yesterday and played great. Chipping was solid. That dormant overseeded bermuda is like nothing else haha. Loved the course though.
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#60 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 02:21 PM

Oh and when I've had the yips it for me it is simply no body rotation thru shot

As others have said I use right shoulder to target, I also use this for my full swing

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