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Putting with flag in (MERGED)


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#31 wcbjr

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 10:13 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 01 November 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

Be it slow play or whatever reason you want there to be, there is no way that in amy high level tournament you should be able to hit the ball against the pin with a putter on the green. Putting with the pin out is as basic to the game as getting penalized for dropping out of a water hazard and playing the ball as it lies.


And we shouldn't be able to mark the ball on the green.  Stymies galore!


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#32 MidwestGolfBum

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 11:40 PM

View Post3chavgolf, on 01 November 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

View PostGolfer4Life, on 01 November 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Is within the rules, so.....

I was away from the game for a while and didn’t know that this was coming in 2019.

I thought that it was interesting and am a fan of this, especially since I play alone most of the time.

Bryson’s reasoning was interesting and I just wanted to get the opinion of other golfers on this forum as to why he wants to leave the flag in.

Since you play alone most of the time, it shouldn't matter since you can't post the score for handicap purposes anyway. Leave that sucker in and have at it!
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#33 Ferguson

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

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#34 Jacked_Loft

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 05:21 AM

New stat: SG with and without using pin on green.

I'll be pulling it as usual.
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#35 pinhigh27

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 05:54 AM

View PostFerguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

there's no way on an 8 footer he hit it hard enough where it hit the flag hard enough to miss, or the flag was crooked.

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#36 bladehunter

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:15 AM

View Postpinhigh27, on 02 November 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

there's no way on an 8 footer he hit it hard enough where it hit the flag hard enough to miss, or the flag was crooked.

just not true... i missed a 20 footer from the fringe last week for birdie that hit teh center of the pin and popped back to the lip and sat there....  Now sure it wasnt die speed..But it would have hit the back of teh cup and went in if no Pin...
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#37 pinhigh27

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:22 AM

I don't believe it happens commonly and neither does the research. Someone like dechambeau is extremely analytical so he wouldn't be doing this if he didn't have concrete data that showed it helps majority of time.

It takes a lot of energy for the ball to bounce off flag and leave the hole. Like a putt 10+ feet by. The flag provides way more of a backstop than the back edge of the hole.
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#38 Vindog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:17 AM

There's clear evidence that laving the pin in is to the advantage of the player, so I'm not really behind this rule change...in spirit.  Many times there is outcry about backstopping with balls in a position to assist players and i kind of view this as the same.


In practice, I don't see this being much of an issue.  I just don't see any of my runaway putts hitting the flag too often
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#39 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:33 AM

For those who enjoy math and physics, here is some good analysis that explores capture speed.

"I've rolled balls with as much as 20' past capture speed on a flat portion of a green stimping at about 10 and had them repeatedly fall in to the hole. I shouldn't have to tell you… none of the balls rolled at the same speed went into the hole with the flagstick removed.
Thus, the conclusion is simple: the flagstick dampens the speed of the ball by a significantly larger factor than it reduces the distance (and time) that the ball spends in free-fall."

https://thesandtrap....e-flagstick-in/

TL:DR - I can't image a ball hit hard enough to bounce off the flagstick and miss the cup ever had a prayer of being captured by the hole.

Edited by rawdog, 02 November 2018 - 08:34 AM.

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#40 Santiago Golf

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:37 AM

I gunna leave it in for almost every putt

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#41 ebrasmus21

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:43 AM

The guys I play with are traditionalists.  I'm sure, at least a couple of them, the flag will be out of the hole.  I plan on putting with the stick in.
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#42 Vindog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:00 AM

 ebrasmus21, on 02 November 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

The guys I play with are traditionalists.  I'm sure, at least a couple of them, the flag will be out of the hole.  I plan on putting with the stick in.

I think for a lot of older players, it's a situation where we are used to a "look" of the the cup with no flagstick, especially on closer putts.  For me, I'll probably leave it in if it's in, and leave it out if it's out.  Except for long putts where I'll probably just leave it in.
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#43 ebrasmus21

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:04 AM

 Vindog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 ebrasmus21, on 02 November 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

The guys I play with are traditionalists.  I'm sure, at least a couple of them, the flag will be out of the hole.  I plan on putting with the stick in.

I think for a lot of older players, it's a situation where we are used to a "look" of the the cup with no flagstick, especially on closer putts.  For me, I'll probably leave it in if it's in, and leave it out if it's out.  Except for long putts where I'll probably just leave it in.

Yep.  I could see that being the case for me as well.  Should be interesting to see how things go once we get some reps with the flag.  Maybe when its all said and done I won't want the flag at all.....
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#44 DFS PFD

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:08 AM

I'm sure everyone will just play it by feel, much like when chipping with prior rules; pull the flag when it leans towards you and leave it when it leans away from you to act as a backstop without preventing the ball from dropping. That's how I'll utilize the new rule at least.
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#45 bladehunter

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:16 AM

this really is/was a solution in search of a problem

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#46 Ignatius Reilly

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:22 AM

I'll be leaving the flag in on longer putts, so that's a tiny bit of time saved.

On shorter putts I want it out.  Your not going to knock it 6' past on a 6' putt, and I would hate to see a good putt bounce out off the stick.

Slippery downhills?  Probably leave it in for those.

It will be part of the new rules.  So I'll use it, just like any other rule.

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#47 jmck

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:37 AM

 Golfer4Life, on 01 November 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

Can it be any slower? Lol...

Unfortunately, the answer to that is always yes.

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#48 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:38 AM

 Ignatius Reilly, on 02 November 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'll be leaving the flag in on longer putts, so that's a tiny bit of time saved.

On shorter putts I want it out.  Your not going to knock it 6' past on a 6' putt, and I would hate to see a good putt bounce out off the stick.

Slippery downhills?  Probably leave it in for those.

It will be part of the new rules.  So I'll use it, just like any other rule.

Fear not! It won't. The flagstick helps in pretty much every case, assuming you can get used to it visually.

See my post above.
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#49 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:41 AM

 Vindog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 ebrasmus21, on 02 November 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

The guys I play with are traditionalists.  I'm sure, at least a couple of them, the flag will be out of the hole.  I plan on putting with the stick in.

I think for a lot of older players, it's a situation where we are used to a "look" of the the cup with no flagstick, especially on closer putts.  For me, I'll probably leave it in if it's in, and leave it out if it's out.  Except for long putts where I'll probably just leave it in.

I feel like "the look" will affect everyone, regardless of age. Except for those who play a lot of golf alone (and even then some of them still remove it), we have all been removing the stick for our entire golfing careers.
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#50 Vindog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:44 AM

 rawdog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

 Vindog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 ebrasmus21, on 02 November 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

The guys I play with are traditionalists.  I'm sure, at least a couple of them, the flag will be out of the hole.  I plan on putting with the stick in.

I think for a lot of older players, it's a situation where we are used to a "look" of the the cup with no flagstick, especially on closer putts.  For me, I'll probably leave it in if it's in, and leave it out if it's out.  Except for long putts where I'll probably just leave it in.

I feel like "the look" will affect everyone, regardless of age. Except for those who play a lot of golf alone (and even then some of them still remove it), we have all been removing the stick for our entire golfing careers.

You have a point there I guess.

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#51 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:58 AM

 Vindog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

 rawdog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

 Vindog, on 02 November 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 ebrasmus21, on 02 November 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

The guys I play with are traditionalists.  I'm sure, at least a couple of them, the flag will be out of the hole.  I plan on putting with the stick in.

I think for a lot of older players, it's a situation where we are used to a "look" of the the cup with no flagstick, especially on closer putts.  For me, I'll probably leave it in if it's in, and leave it out if it's out.  Except for long putts where I'll probably just leave it in.

I feel like "the look" will affect everyone, regardless of age. Except for those who play a lot of golf alone (and even then some of them still remove it), we have all been removing the stick for our entire golfing careers.

You have a point there I guess.

I'm 29 and play a fair amount of golf alone and either leave the flag in or remove it kind of willy nilly depending how "seriously" I'm practicing. If I were smart, I would've kept better track and see if it made a difference.

One thing that helps me is when I practice my putting I am doing it with the mini flags in. Not 100% the same visual as a full sized stick, but it may have helped condition me. I don't really find myself balking during practice rounds where I leave the stick in.
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#52 Ferguson

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:25 PM

 pinhigh27, on 02 November 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

there's no way on an 8 footer he hit it hard enough where it hit the flag hard enough to miss, or the flag was crooked.


Thanks for the assertion, but the flag was bottomed, and I don't recall seeing you there.

The kid is 15 and a 2 HC.  His putts always have pace and he makes a boatload of putts.  
I was wrong to leave the flag in.



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The real pi$$er is when you have a group of 4 and 2 want the flag out and 2 want it in.

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#53 ebrasmus21

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:39 PM

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

 pinhigh27, on 02 November 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

there's no way on an 8 footer he hit it hard enough where it hit the flag hard enough to miss, or the flag was crooked.


Thanks for the assertion, but the flag was bottomed, and I don't recall seeing you there.

The kid is 15 and a 2 HC.  His putts always have pace and he makes a boatload of putts.  
I was wrong to leave the flag in.



"Flag Pullin'"

The real pi$$er is when you have a group of 4 and 2 want the flag out and 2 want it in.

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#54 BIG STU

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:40 PM

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

 pinhigh27, on 02 November 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

there's no way on an 8 footer he hit it hard enough where it hit the flag hard enough to miss, or the flag was crooked.


Thanks for the assertion, but the flag was bottomed, and I don't recall seeing you there.

The kid is 15 and a 2 HC.  His putts always have pace and he makes a boatload of putts.  
I was wrong to leave the flag in.



"Flag Pullin'"

The real pi$$er is when you have a group of 4 and 2 want the flag out and 2 want it in.
Gotta agree with you there Fergie---- But I have seen anything and everything happen in golf the 50 years or so I have been playing it. I have seen hammered putts hit the hole with no flagstick jump straight up and go back in the cup. I have seen what looks like perfect speed dive and do a rim out too. It is golf and anything can and will happen. Like Rawdog said some of us have been used to pulling the stick all our golfing lives. I even pull them on the practice green. Since I like to experiment anyhow I am going to start practicing putting even 4 footers with the pin in and see. From reading this thread I have gotten some ideas already. Like you said Fergie it will also be interesting to see how this plays out between 4 somes
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#55 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:55 PM

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

 pinhigh27, on 02 November 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

there's no way on an 8 footer he hit it hard enough where it hit the flag hard enough to miss, or the flag was crooked.


Thanks for the assertion, but the flag was bottomed, and I don't recall seeing you there.

The kid is 15 and a 2 HC.  His putts always have pace and he makes a boatload of putts.  
I was wrong to leave the flag in.



"Flag Pullin'"

The real pi$$er is when you have a group of 4 and 2 want the flag out and 2 want it in.

Was it one of the metal flagsticks Bryson mentioned from the US Open?

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#56 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:57 PM

I just want one poster to talk about how a ball that lips out ends up further from the hole ends up further than it otherwise would have had it missed the cup altogether.

Is that too much to ask?
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In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods

Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 5W = 19*
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Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
6I = 24*   7I = 29*   8I = 34*   9I = 39*   PW = 44*   GW = 49*   SW = 54*   LW = 59*
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#57 RobS14526

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:06 PM

How do you think you would respond if you were playing a competitive round with a stranger and they kept asking you to put the flag back in before they putt?

A)” No problem, anything I can do to help.”
B) “If you want the flag, you can get it yourself.”
C) “I can’t hear you, I’m on the next tee box.”

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#58 rawdog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:10 PM

 RobS14526, on 02 November 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

How do you think you would respond if you were playing a competitive round with a stranger and they kept asking you to put the flag back in before they putt?

A)” No problem, anything I can do to help.”
B) “If you want the flag, you can get it yourself.”
C) “I can’t hear you, I’m on the next tee box.”

Trick question. No need to ask when I've already left it in.



EDIT: That response sounds dirtier due to my username.

Edited by rawdog, 02 November 2018 - 01:11 PM.

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Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5* @44.5"
In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods

Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 5W = 19*
Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 7W = 23*
Cobra F7 One Length Irons
Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
6I = 24*   7I = 29*   8I = 34*   9I = 39*   PW = 44*   GW = 49*   SW = 54*   LW = 59*
Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled @33.5"
Maxfli SoftFli

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#59 Mudguard

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 02:24 PM

I still wonder if it will promote a rethink on pin design. Obviously when pins and cups are new, the flag will tend to stay more upright. But after while they slop around and lean. Someone will design a pin with a super thin section at green height, or with rubber around it. perhaps even a slight cone shape...

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#60 gioreeko

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:32 PM

 Ferguson, on 02 November 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

Playing last week with my older son.  He's got a 8 footer for bird.  

I suggest, "let's leave the flag in - it's almost 2019."
He putts and it hits the stick dead center, missing the putt.
He gives me a dirty look, "Dad, the flag comes out, okay."


I'm going to pull it.

He would've missed it then anyway, it was going too fast. It will never hurt a good putt that would've dropped.

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