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Lower body starts downswing: How To Feel This


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#91 ebrasmus21

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:22 PM

Did a little work on this this morning.  As I mentioned before I’m just trying to get “belt buckle down” to start the swing.  Since my belt isn’t visible look at the emblem on my hat and how it moves.  

By no means am I say this is perfect.  Just trying to illustrate what I’ve said in my prior posts.

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#92 fairways4life

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:15 AM

View Postchiva, on 02 November 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

Monte's zipper away video!


https://www.youtube....h?v=NXoW93m2HcY

I had been doing some weird things in transition lately so I read through this thread before I played on Saturday. Watched this video and took that thought to the course. It made a world of difference. I could feel my arms dropping into the slot very easily once I got my hips cleared like this. Struck it very well. Thanks for posting it!

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#93 juliette91

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:23 PM

The hard part of this Hogan/Monte/TImbo posted message, this moving of the lead knee over the lead foot in transition, is that one's weight shift has moved most of the weight to the rear instep/foot.  So what you're doing is trying to get the body to quickly, at transition, move a body part where there is very little "weight" pressure on it at that time. This makes it hard to feel, or maybe a better way to say it, this makes it hard to instantaneously figure out where your lead knee is in order to move it over your lead knee.

I will give this a try again as I know it's the right move having watched Xander S. do this all day long yesterday in what I thought was an exhibition of one of the purest swings and strikes I'd ever seen on tv.

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#94 juliette91

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:10 PM

View Postcopperjeff, on 24 December 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

Honestly, no feel is wrong if the mechanics are correct.

You could tell me you start the downswing by crossing your eyes, and if that feel gets you a mechanically sound swing, good for you!

Well said!  I've tried many of the suggestions here, the latest one being the suggested move of the lead knee over the lead foot but wow that was impossible for me to do.  In the end the best way for me to execute the transition--and be able to actually command my body to do it--is to turn my chest toward the target.  Realize as some have astutely pointed out that this could cause me to spin out, to turn too quickly toward the target before I get the right "drop" into the slot.

What helped prevent that bad outcome was instituting a pause at the top of my backswing and then turn my chest toward the target.  Doing that--for me-- gets me into that "slot" and the danger of spinning out and hitting it well left (I'm LH) is reduced.

While I'd love my transition move to look more like In Gee Chun or Na Yeon Choi, or Xander Schauffele,  sweet tempos with easy to see lower bodies lowering and leading the downswing I'm unable to do that.  Finally realizing I have to stop tinkering incessantly and settle on what seems to be something I can reproduce more consistently---which turns out to be something I can control with my brain--before the downswing actually happens.

So thank you all for your informative, helpful and well thought out posts.  Keep it going for others who are still looking for a piece of that transition grail but I'm bowing out and will work on what I "feel" is my more natural rhythm.

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#95 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:08 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 07 January 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

The hard part of this Hogan/Monte/TImbo posted message, this moving of the lead knee over the lead foot in transition, is that one's weight shift has moved most of the weight to the rear instep/foot.  So what you're doing is trying to get the body to quickly, at transition, move a body part where there is very little "weight" pressure on it at that time. This makes it hard to feel, or maybe a better way to say it, this makes it hard to instantaneously figure out where your lead knee is in order to move it over your lead knee.

I will give this a try again as I know it's the right move having watched Xander S. do this all day long yesterday in what I thought was an exhibition of one of the purest swings and strikes I'd ever seen on tv.

This is why it’s supposed to start earlier.  Most people interpret it as hip fire.  You’re suppose to start shifting prsssure left around P3.5ish


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#96 glk

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 04:14 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 10 January 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 07 January 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

The hard part of this Hogan/Monte/TImbo posted message, this moving of the lead knee over the lead foot in transition, is that one's weight shift has moved most of the weight to the rear instep/foot.  So what you're doing is trying to get the body to quickly, at transition, move a body part where there is very little "weight" pressure on it at that time. This makes it hard to feel, or maybe a better way to say it, this makes it hard to instantaneously figure out where your lead knee is in order to move it over your lead knee.

I will give this a try again as I know it's the right move having watched Xander S. do this all day long yesterday in what I thought was an exhibition of one of the purest swings and strikes I'd ever seen on tv.

This is why it’s supposed to start earlier.  Most people interpret it as hip fire.  You’re suppose to start shifting prsssure left around P3.5ish
To me, trying to start transition by moving the lead knee over the ankle would just cause me to hang back - the lead knee moves over the ankle cause the body centers shift laterally.

I prefer to think of it as lining up the joints - hip/knee/ankle.   Schauffele's lead knee moves back over his ankle cause he starts shifting pressure just before he finishes his backswing - he's shifting and starting to regain flexion and providing a little bit of rotation - these motions lead to his lead knee moving.   I doubt he is thinking about moving his knee as a transition key. Frankly, I would think folks who try to start transition with their lead knee would develop a case of the hang back spin outs.

As Monte said it starts somewhere before the end of the backswing.

Xander when he starts pressure shift but before end of his backswing
Screen Shot 2019-01-10 at 3.39.26 PM.png
At the top, ready to start down and he's already moved laterally with his knee moving too
Screen Shot 2019-01-10 at 3.39.45 PM.png
Bit more into transition with joints lining up; lots of patience in activating the arms
Screen Shot 2019-01-10 at 3.40.31 PM.png
pressure shifted and ready to pour on the rotation and hit it hard
Screen Shot 2019-01-10 at 3.49.36 PM.png

Link to the swing if you wish to single step through it to see how in moving his body center his knee follows along.


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#97 rgk5

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:46 AM

This is basically the same as Hogan's "fall foward" move discussed in Jim McLean's book analyzing Hogan's swing.

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#98 juliette91

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:45 PM

The video begs the question I posed for this thread—yes it’s just about as perfect a transition move as you could find anywhere on any golfer on any video.  But it doesn’t answer the question of how to get our own bodies to do this, or somewhere in the brain to cause this to sequentially spot on occur.  

I can watch this sweet move all day long and not get my body to duplicate it.  When I try to do it my head moves too far forward and/or the coordination of the body parts just ain’t happenin’

Frankly I think it’s nothing more than God given athleticism.

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#99 ebrasmus21

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:49 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

The video begs the question I posed for this thread—yes it's just about as perfect a transition move as you could find anywhere on any golfer on any video.  But it doesn't answer the question of how to get our own bodies to do this, or somewhere in the brain to cause this to sequentially spot on occur.  

I can watch this sweet move all day long and not get my body to duplicate it.  When I try to do it my head moves too far forward and/or the coordination of the body parts just ain't happenin'

Frankly I think it's nothing more than God given athleticism.

Are you saying your swing will never look like Xander's?  Few will.  I'd be willing to bet you can still get some flexion in transition to help facilitate the starting of the downswing.
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#100 glk

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

Edited by glk, 11 January 2019 - 01:44 PM.


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#101 juliette91

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:15 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 11 January 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

The video begs the question I posed for this thread—yes it's just about as perfect a transition move as you could find anywhere on any golfer on any video.  But it doesn't answer the question of how to get our own bodies to do this, or somewhere in the brain to cause this to sequentially spot on occur.  

I can watch this sweet move all day long and not get my body to duplicate it.  When I try to do it my head moves too far forward and/or the coordination of the body parts just ain't happenin'

Frankly I think it's nothing more than God given athleticism.

Are you saying your swing will never look like Xander's?  Few will.  I'd be willing to bet you can still get some flexion in transition to help facilitate the starting of the downswing.

Thanks for your reply.  Realize I got a bit frustrated there with my post.

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#102 juliette91

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:16 PM

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

Thanks for taking the time to post these videos and your advice.  I will follow up and let you know if I was helped by them.

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#103 glk

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:19 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

Thanks for taking the time to post these videos and your advice.  I will follow up and let you know if I was helped by them.
Without video all of these are shots in the dark.   The fact you mention and upper body lunge when you attempt a shift indicates an upper body dominate swing type.
You may have to go back to your backswing to make progress - failure to properly load the core etc versus the upper body - says you can attempt these things til you are
blue in the face and your upper body will still want to take over.   Good luck.

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#104 juliette91

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:39 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

Thanks for taking the time to post these videos and your advice.  I will follow up and let you know if I was helped by them.

These are great videos, spot on point!  The first one is a bit easier to follow as the second one talks a lot about sequencing after the transition has started, going body position by body position as if you can actually control where you hit those positions during your downswing.  Don't think it's possible to do that and instead best to work on everything up until the middle of the transition (which would be the start of the downswing or thereabouts) because you can control those with your brain.

Edited by juliette91, 11 January 2019 - 03:40 PM.


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#105 juliette91

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:46 PM

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

Thanks for taking the time to post these videos and your advice.  I will follow up and let you know if I was helped by them.
Without video all of these are shots in the dark.   The fact you mention and upper body lunge when you attempt a shift indicates an upper body dominate swing type.
You may have to go back to your backswing to make progress - failure to properly load the core etc versus the upper body - says you can attempt these things til you are
blue in the face and your upper body will still want to take over.   Good luck.

Well you Sherlock'd it just fine, am a bit embarrassed to post any video of my swing regardless of my handicap.  Every time my instructor shows me side by side video with one of the many touring pros on the app she uses I cringe and wonder how the heck I could possible score well, ever.  But yes I have this upper body lunge and I have an upper body dominated swing.  That's pretty much why I started this discussion in the first place, to make some progress in changing this to a more lower body dominated swing.  That's why I began using the Henrik Stenson style, so I could achieve the core loading right away as part of my takeaway.  Trouble has been, even with a pause at the top I spin out or end up with too much weight on my back foot---still.  And you're right, attempting the changes suggested by these videos will not work until I can really load up the core so my upper body can't really lunge forward.


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#106 ebrasmus21

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:58 PM

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't post your swing - that's totally up to you.  BUT never be embarrassed - we play a tough game.  Imagine how many variables must match up at precisely the right time in order to hit a proper golf shot... It's a wonder we can play the game at all.  

If you do end up posting a swing there isn't a damn thing to be embarrassed about.
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#107 glk

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 04:18 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 11 January 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

Thanks for taking the time to post these videos and your advice.  I will follow up and let you know if I was helped by them.
Without video all of these are shots in the dark.   The fact you mention and upper body lunge when you attempt a shift indicates an upper body dominate swing type.
You may have to go back to your backswing to make progress - failure to properly load the core etc versus the upper body - says you can attempt these things til you are
blue in the face and your upper body will still want to take over.   Good luck.

Well you Sherlock'd it just fine, am a bit embarrassed to post any video of my swing regardless of my handicap.  Every time my instructor shows me side by side video with one of the many touring pros on the app she uses I cringe and wonder how the heck I could possible score well, ever.  But yes I have this upper body lunge and I have an upper body dominated swing.  That's pretty much why I started this discussion in the first place, to make some progress in changing this to a more lower body dominated swing.  That's why I began using the Henrik Stenson style, so I could achieve the core loading right away as part of my takeaway.  Trouble has been, even with a pause at the top I spin out or end up with too much weight on my back foot---still.  And you're right, attempting the changes suggested by these videos will not work until I can really load up the core so my upper body can't really lunge forward.

I'd say keep at it - work on backswing to support transition.   1% improvement a day as iteach notes.   takes times.   took me 2 years to go  from a very upper dominate motion to something more balanced.   It's when I finally got my right shoulder over my left foot feel at the top that I could really feell my core  load - then it just seemed natural that it would lead - whether the feel is a light push from the trail foot and a downhill fall onto the lead foot or my left shoulder going low - and learning to not pull down the arms is the toughest thing and still something i work on a lot - early arm pull down can kill a decent transition. Why I like the pressure board.

http://myteachingpro... efficiency.mp4

Edited by glk, 11 January 2019 - 04:20 PM.


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#108 golf41

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

Thanks to the OP and the contributors to this topic. the best collections of videos explaining the move.
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#109 AlexCzervic

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 08:41 PM

Lower body doesn’t start downswing. Brain starts, intent to move hands, pivot accommodates, left hip clears, film is overrated.

AC

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#110 Chowdah86

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:46 AM

Studies have shown that the most active muscles involved in the golf swing are the glutes, the core and the forearms.  

One thing I often come back to is to remind myself to swing with my glutes.   If you tell yourself to swing down using your left glute, you will automatically drop the club into the correct position and swing “from the ground up”.


This is some significant stuff.  If there were an unfound ‘secret’ to the swing this may be it.   Because all of the hacks are using every other tiny little upper body muscle to swing, leaving those big powerful donkey haunches out of the whole equation.


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#111 Lincoln_Arcadia

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:04 AM

Really good topic.
It took a while for me to get it as well. The key is there is no real opposing force for your body to push against at the start of the downswing. Once you are moving though then you can start to feel the inertial force in the upper body opposing the motion.

I often wonder if there’s a shortcut method to teach people? People have tried everything from mirrors to video to learn it. By far, it seems like most people take forever to get it, if ever? Some lucky people get it right away and become scratch less than 3 years after taking up the game.

I’ve see many people on driving ranges struggle with this and continue to do so over the years.

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#112 Pleasedwith3putts

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:28 AM

View PostChowdah86, on 14 January 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

Studies have shown that the most active muscles involved in the golf swing are the glutes, the core and the forearms.  

One thing I often come back to is to remind myself to swing with my glutes.   If you tell yourself to swing down using your left glute, you will automatically drop the club into the correct position and swing "from the ground up".


This is some significant stuff.  If there were an unfound 'secret' to the swing this may be it.   Because all of the hacks are using every other tiny little upper body muscle to swing, leaving those big powerful donkey haunches out of the whole equation.

I'm with you on this. There are lots of different looking backswings on tour and the crucial part of the swing is the first few feet coming down where they all find a way of getting the club back in a good position.

If you don't engage your lower body properly on the backswing then you are lacking the stretch and rotation loading in your glutes that provides such an important trigger point to the start of the downswing sequencing. That's when it all gets a bit handsy and makes it easy to come over the top.

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#113 juliette91

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 12:52 PM

View PostPleasedwith3putts, on 14 January 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

View PostChowdah86, on 14 January 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

Studies have shown that the most active muscles involved in the golf swing are the glutes, the core and the forearms.  

One thing I often come back to is to remind myself to swing with my glutes.   If you tell yourself to swing down using your left glute, you will automatically drop the club into the correct position and swing "from the ground up".


This is some significant stuff.  If there were an unfound 'secret' to the swing this may be it.   Because all of the hacks are using every other tiny little upper body muscle to swing, leaving those big powerful donkey haunches out of the whole equation.

I'm with you on this. There are lots of different looking backswings on tour and the crucial part of the swing is the first few feet coming down where they all find a way of getting the club back in a good position.

If you don't engage your lower body properly on the backswing then you are lacking the stretch and rotation loading in your glutes that provides such an important trigger point to the start of the downswing sequencing. That's when it all gets a bit handsy and makes it easy to come over the top.

It will be my personal golf lifetime achievement if I can start to feel my lower body leading the race to impact.  Sincerely appreciate all of you who have shared your thoughts, videos and personal experiences on this.  I've said before that it's rare for there to be a universal teaching drill or style or method for all golfers, that you have to really figure out what works for you among a shocking number of teachings that seem in contradiction to each other.

Taking the most recent posts, can I get my brain to figure out where my glutes are at the start of the downswing so I can turn them down?  I bet if I could it would help, may be the key for me.  But I started this thread to gain some insight into what people feel in order to get their lower body to lead on the downswing, hoping that one of the posts would be something I could actually feel.  I know using the word "feel" has raised some hackles on the board but at the root of it the swing is entirely "feel".  Done enough time it looks mechanical but it's your awareness of where your body is at any one point that allows you to repeat that sequence.  My sequence is off and as a shorter hitter I can't afford to leave my glutes or any big muscle out of helping me gain distance much less a better and more repeatable swing path.

Keep on posting if this topic still interests you or if you have something you think adds to the discussion.  Want to echo what one poster said, that this is the holy grail move in golf, the real secret.

Edited by juliette91, 14 January 2019 - 12:55 PM.


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#114 Chowdah86

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 02:37 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 14 January 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

View PostPleasedwith3putts, on 14 January 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

View PostChowdah86, on 14 January 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

Studies have shown that the most active muscles involved in the golf swing are the glutes, the core and the forearms.  

One thing I often come back to is to remind myself to swing with my glutes.   If you tell yourself to swing down using your left glute, you will automatically drop the club into the correct position and swing "from the ground up".


This is some significant stuff.  If there were an unfound 'secret' to the swing this may be it.   Because all of the hacks are using every other tiny little upper body muscle to swing, leaving those big powerful donkey haunches out of the whole equation.

I'm with you on this. There are lots of different looking backswings on tour and the crucial part of the swing is the first few feet coming down where they all find a way of getting the club back in a good position.

If you don't engage your lower body properly on the backswing then you are lacking the stretch and rotation loading in your glutes that provides such an important trigger point to the start of the downswing sequencing. That's when it all gets a bit handsy and makes it easy to come over the top.

It will be my personal golf lifetime achievement if I can start to feel my lower body leading the race to impact.  Sincerely appreciate all of you who have shared your thoughts, videos and personal experiences on this.  I've said before that it's rare for there to be a universal teaching drill or style or method for all golfers, that you have to really figure out what works for you among a shocking number of teachings that seem in contradiction to each other.

Taking the most recent posts, can I get my brain to figure out where my glutes are at the start of the downswing so I can turn them down?  I bet if I could it would help, may be the key for me.  But I started this thread to gain some insight into what people feel in order to get their lower body to lead on the downswing, hoping that one of the posts would be something I could actually feel.  I know using the word "feel" has raised some hackles on the board but at the root of it the swing is entirely "feel".  Done enough time it looks mechanical but it's your awareness of where your body is at any one point that allows you to repeat that sequence.  My sequence is off and as a shorter hitter I can't afford to leave my glutes or any big muscle out of helping me gain distance much less a better and more repeatable swing path.

Keep on posting if this topic still interests you or if you have something you think adds to the discussion.  Want to echo what one poster said, that this is the holy grail move in golf, the real secret.


Your left a** cheeck.  Connect that big muscle to the swing.  Everythig else can relax.  Your a** cheeks, your core and the underside of your forearms are going to do the work.  Establish that connection, I think it will help.  

When you set up, tell your legs to get ready.  Activate them. Grab hold of the ground.  Tell your arms to hang loose like ropes.  Tell the underside of your forearms to hang onto the club, via your three little fingers on each hand holding like hooks.  When you contract that left forearm, it will bow your wrist and close the face.  Tell your core to get ready to facilitate the rotation.  

From the butt cheeck, to the core, to the forearm, to the clubhead, through the ball, into a long balanced finish.  

You cant walk 20 yards on your arms.  But you can walk all day with your legs.

Edited by Chowdah86, 14 January 2019 - 02:53 PM.


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#115 PJ1120

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 03:38 PM

View Postglk, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do this drill (whether will a range bucket, impact bag, or something else that you find works)


or buy the sheftic board and do this (was already posted a page ago)
https://www.instagra.../p/BqYLDStl_fy/

Or do a version of the step drill.

Or do the drill with an alignment stick in the ground about a fist distance away from your lead hip.


Or seek a good instructor.

How is this "fall forward" move any different than the position you get in with stack & tilt at address? I'm sure I'm missing something.


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#116 juliette91

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 03:41 PM

View PostChowdah86, on 14 January 2019 - 02:37 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 14 January 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

View PostPleasedwith3putts, on 14 January 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

View PostChowdah86, on 14 January 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

Studies have shown that the most active muscles involved in the golf swing are the glutes, the core and the forearms.  

One thing I often come back to is to remind myself to swing with my glutes.   If you tell yourself to swing down using your left glute, you will automatically drop the club into the correct position and swing "from the ground up".


This is some significant stuff.  If there were an unfound 'secret' to the swing this may be it.   Because all of the hacks are using every other tiny little upper body muscle to swing, leaving those big powerful donkey haunches out of the whole equation.

I'm with you on this. There are lots of different looking backswings on tour and the crucial part of the swing is the first few feet coming down where they all find a way of getting the club back in a good position.

If you don't engage your lower body properly on the backswing then you are lacking the stretch and rotation loading in your glutes that provides such an important trigger point to the start of the downswing sequencing. That's when it all gets a bit handsy and makes it easy to come over the top.

It will be my personal golf lifetime achievement if I can start to feel my lower body leading the race to impact.  Sincerely appreciate all of you who have shared your thoughts, videos and personal experiences on this.  I've said before that it's rare for there to be a universal teaching drill or style or method for all golfers, that you have to really figure out what works for you among a shocking number of teachings that seem in contradiction to each other.

Taking the most recent posts, can I get my brain to figure out where my glutes are at the start of the downswing so I can turn them down?  I bet if I could it would help, may be the key for me.  But I started this thread to gain some insight into what people feel in order to get their lower body to lead on the downswing, hoping that one of the posts would be something I could actually feel.  I know using the word "feel" has raised some hackles on the board but at the root of it the swing is entirely "feel".  Done enough time it looks mechanical but it's your awareness of where your body is at any one point that allows you to repeat that sequence.  My sequence is off and as a shorter hitter I can't afford to leave my glutes or any big muscle out of helping me gain distance much less a better and more repeatable swing path.

Keep on posting if this topic still interests you or if you have something you think adds to the discussion.  Want to echo what one poster said, that this is the holy grail move in golf, the real secret.


Your left a** cheeck.  Connect that big muscle to the swing.  Everythig else can relax.  Your a** cheeks, your core and the underside of your forearms are going to do the work.  Establish that connection, I think it will help.  

When you set up, tell your legs to get ready.  Activate them. Grab hold of the ground.  Tell your arms to hang loose like ropes.  Tell the underside of your forearms to hang onto the club, via your three little fingers on each hand holding like hooks.  When you contract that left forearm, it will bow your wrist and close the face.  Tell your core to get ready to facilitate the rotation.  

From the butt cheeck, to the core, to the forearm, to the clubhead, through the ball, into a long balanced finish.  

You cant walk 20 yards on your arms.  But you can walk all day with your legs.

Ha!  I'm all too well aware of where my a__ i_!  And you vividly described the the sequence as you see it.  Will certainly try to feel that in my next practice.  The persistent problem I have is feeling something in my body that I need to activate at the time that part of the body is not experiencing as much weight as another part of the body.  So when I coil and get to my left side (though I'm LH I'm going to use right and left the way a right hander would, just because I think it's less confusing) my weight is like 70% or so on that right side.  The transition to get my weight to my left side means I have to figure out where my left glute is in order to get it to fire and turn down.  That's been the sticking point for me so far, instantaneously getting to that left side during transition.  That's why the pause has been so helpful but if that pause is too long then I get stuck on my right side and swing hard with my arms/hands.

For me, the idea of action/reaction makes the most sense for the transition.  I think that's why so many pros and good amateurs--pretty much anyone who really can make a lower body swing move at the right time-- push off toward the target to initiate the swing, react by pushing away from the target and react to that by the pushing back toward the target.  Seems to be the big idea behind the forward press too:  press forward with hands while your body presses a bit forward toward the target, then you "push off" your weight shift to your right side, then you react to that push back by pushing toward the target on your transition/downswing.

In the end I'm just looking for something I can repeat with a natural feel but that might be too much to ask.  I'll just take repeatable and call it a day.  Thanks for your post.

Edited by juliette91, 14 January 2019 - 03:44 PM.


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#117 glk

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 04:17 PM

Here is my go to feel - left shoulder off chin.

Demonstrated by the famous Ted Norby.



Or if you like, someone a bit more famous

http://www.instagram.../p/BojuvyBFaaD/

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#118 dasams

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 04:22 PM

I learned the move indoors doing freezer drills.  Here's what worked for me:

Grab a club and make a full backswing.  Bonus points if you have a mirror to check your positions and make sure that most of your weight is on your trail foot when you are at the top.  In slow motion, shift your weight to your lead foot and open your hips.  Do NOT unwind your shoulders but rather let them rotate with your torso.  When your hips are open and most of your weight is on your lead foot, your trail elbow should be on or near your trail hip.   Your club shaft should have shallowed on the way down and you should be about P5.5.  

Take it back to the top and do it again.  Repeat until comfortable.  Then add your release but don't let your shoulders unwind until your weight has shifted to your lead foot.

If you can't get the move started, try Monte's 'zipper away' drill on youtube.

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#119 Zitlow

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 11:00 PM

Your belly button can get too far in front of the butt of the club if you drive your lower body (hips and legs) to apply power.

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#120 ferrispgm

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 10:12 AM

belt buckle down, shifting the lead knee, squatting, GG's leg action, bumping the hip, separating the legs....it's all basically the same move it's just a matter of what works for each person.  They may look drastically different if you do them in slow motion as a rehearsal but during the actual swing, they look nearly identical.  Similar to Monte's moves for getting the lead arm off of the chest.  You can try to consciously move the lead arm, right elbow toward belly button, getting right shoulder forward, etc all produce extremely similar if not the same motion, just different ways to do it.

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