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Guys that shoot under par. What clubs?


160 replies to this topic

#61 bladehunter

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 08:46 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 29 October 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

I like links but their greens haven’t been that great for awhile. Another diamond zoysia convert. Their par 5s are a bit more of a test than village’s except maybe 18. There’s a few holes there I won’t hit the big stick. 5, 10, 13, 16, and 17.

yep..  i made nothing sunday ..lol   some greens were quick...several so slow you couldnt get a 4 footer to the hole before it snapped one way or another...i hear Woodfin is going to re-surface  their greens.. I hope with Bermuda ..I get why they go away from bent , but i dont get the Zoysia....  Bermuda will come back if you pour gas on it ..cant get much more durable than that .

Edited by bladehunter, 29 October 2018 - 08:51 PM.


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#62 BiggErn

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 08:58 PM

Played Woodfin a couple weeks ago and the greens were pretty good. Maybe some invasive grass spots here and there on and around the green. I really hope they aren’t going to zoysia. Played willow creek last week and their greens take a beating but roll really well. Village probably has some of the better greens around that I play. Cherokee valley has nice greens and sometimes they get them crazy fast which can embarrass you with the slopes on them.

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#63 MtlJeff

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 09:12 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 29 October 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

Type of course is pretty important too, since they don't rate all aspects of the game the same.

A course by my parents place (Donald Ross' Lake Sunapee Country Club) is really short but the greens are ridiculous and you can lose a ball on every hole.

A course here in New Orleans (Lakewood) has literally no out of bounds.  You can hit 200 yard slices and be fine.

Handicaps will always be skewed if they are more than half their rounds on the same course.  Some guys here would look like scratches on the Donald Ross course but couldn't reach most of the Lakewood par 4s in two shots (several 480+).  Some other guys (me, for example) can look like Koepka at Lakewood but can't break 80 on the Ross course that's tight with tough greens.

If your "handicap" is more than half the rounds from one course you don't have a handicap.

My guess is the vast majority of players who keep a handicap would meet that criteria. (10 or more of posted scores from one course only)

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#64 bladehunter

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 09:49 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 29 October 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Played Woodfin a couple weeks ago and the greens were pretty good. Maybe some invasive grass spots here and there on and around the green. I really hope they aren’t going to zoysia. Played willow creek last week and their greens take a beating but roll really well. Village probably has some of the better greens around that I play. Cherokee valley has nice greens and sometimes they get them crazy fast which can embarrass you with the slopes on them.

spot on .... Our greens are really good right now.. i love the speed they have when its cool.   Cherokee valley really can make you look bad for sure.. My 10 year old played pga junior league out of there this summer and my wifes 1st cousin has built a home off that hole that has the huge drop off from tee to green ( not the par 3 like that but the par 4 just after it ) I forget the number ... so weve played up there a good bit this summer.  if i lived closer id join up there just because we love the new owner..  Matt is the nicest guy on earth and hes really trying to build it into a community club .  They have plans to renovate the clubhouse and open a nice restaurant inside.. But remain public and welcoming..  Knowing him and his wife they will pull it off.

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#65 uwhockey14

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 10:03 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 25 October 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

Just curious what clubs guys use that consistently shoot under par. This is geared toward guys that break par more times than not and I’ll limit the clubs down to just driver and irons.

I"m not going to say I break par more often than I don't but back in the early and mid 00's when I was playing mini tours, I played Titleist Forged Irons and a Taylor Made Driver, while i'm' not up to speed on all the new equipment these days, it seems today that's a popular combination as well, as both companies haven't stopped excelling in these areas. I was on Titleist staff in the early 00's and switched to Taylor Made for a couple years about when the R7 Driver came out and played the TP irons for a little while in that stretch but the Titleist 681's went back in the bag in 06 and have stayed since... Biggest difference between now and then is the 2 and 3 irons are out of the bag, back then a lot of players still played 2-Irons, hybrids were just coming in and there wasn't much out there for accomplished players... I have played forged blade Irons since I was scratch at 16, I struggle even hitting anything else consistently even tho I'm not the player I once was.

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#66 BiggErn

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 10:06 PM

They had moved the clubhouse to where the tennis court is and rerouted the course when we played there a few weeks ago. You start on 8 now but I know exactly what hole you’re talking about. There’s a lot of nice retirement community style homes that are different than some of the other places like river falls and Woodfin. They seem to always at least be making an effort to make improvements. They had TP5 balls as range balls so that was nice.

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#67 leejohnkieh

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:48 AM

I've recently gotten my scores back down to even/under par after I got rid of drivers that didn't work. For me, it's all about feel and look. I went from 910d2 to a 17' M1 to an M2 then to an M3 and now to the Ts3 in a span of 3 years. Tried every shaft known to man and I just could not get by round after round with TM drivers. Wildly inconsistent. I'd play tourneys not knowing where my driver was gonna go that day.

Edited by leejohnkieh, 30 October 2018 - 01:50 AM.

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#68 Hehateme

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:29 AM

I shot 70 yesterday 6892/136-- Irons are off the shelf Srixon Z585 modus 105, Driver is 2016 TM M2/Tour AD DI combo, wedges are a mix of brands in 50/54/58- putter is a TM Ardmore 2 L neck and the ball was a Callaway Warbird in Optic yellow

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#69 Komarms

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 10:44 AM

Big tinkerer and always will be. I have a mixed bag.
Tm M2 driver
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Srixon z745 4-pw
Vokey sm7 50,56,60
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Just play what works. I’ve had probably 20 fittings maybe more and I’ve taken bits from each but most of the clubs that have stuck around are clubs that I’ve experimented with on my own and tried on the course. The clubs that you’re comfortable playing under pressure tend to be the ones that stay in the bag the longest! Then I usually double up on those clubs and keep them as backups
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#70 Need4spd

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 11:38 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 26 October 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

That break par more than they don't? That's gonna be a relatively small list.

True statement. I’m a +1.5 and shoot over par much more often than not. Remember that one’s handicap basically represents their potential, not their average score. My WITB is below if anyone cares.

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#71 mgrowc1

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 12:34 PM

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

20% of the time and a 4 index? Assuming that needs to be updated? I am currently a 2 and have never shot under par.
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#72 davep043

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 12:43 PM

View Postmgrowc1, on 30 October 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

20% of the time and a 4 index? Assuming that needs to be updated? I am currently a 2 and have never shot under par.
If you read further on, you'll see that he's simply kept his handicap from last year, doesn't seem to have posted any scores from his current "easier" course.  I'm guessing his newer course has a CR well under par.  From a few other things he's typed, I'm not sure he really understands how handicaps work, and what he should expect to shoot.

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#73 gators78

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:18 PM

The best guy in the area Nathan Smith (4 time USGA Mid Am Champ) has used pretty much everything. 690MBs at the Merion Walker Cup, had the TM "B" reduced offset irons, played X Hots in the NGL Walker Cup, used Epics for a while, had the regular Callaway Apex irons, he changes clubs a lot.
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#74 Fairwindsgolfer

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:51 PM

View Poststk123, on 29 October 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

View Postcradd10, on 28 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

This is why I hate playing in every Member/guest. Guy shoots under par 20% of time and is a 4 handicap.

If that is true then that is stupid. Either that or you are playing a 6000y course with 68 par rating.

I finally got to the plus side handicap this year and only broke 70 twice in my life. When I was first starting out, I got to 6handicap while only breaking 80 a few times. No way a 4 handicap breaks par more than once a year at most courses I see, par rating 73ish and 130 slope
I agree with this☝️.
I am a 1.5 at my local track, the course rating is 72ish and a slope of 133.  It is 6500 at the tips, which is where I play from.
My low round this year is 72 and my all-time low around at my course is a 71, but I do tend to be extremely consistent with my rounds ie: anywhere from 74 to 77.  It would be phenomenal if I can get my game to the point where I'm shooting a 68 or somewhere close every now and then, but unfortunately I haven't gotten to that point yet.
Truthfully, I have no idea how my handicap went down to a 1.5, but I guess it has something to do with several rounds at 73 that I shot the summer.
Other than that, I would say my bona fide average score numerically wise is a 75, which would make me a three.

Edited by Fairwindsgolfer, 30 October 2018 - 03:53 PM.


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#75 gpepegolf

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 04:33 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 29 October 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

Type of course is pretty important too, since they don't rate all aspects of the game the same.

A course by my parents place (Donald Ross' Lake Sunapee Country Club) is really short but the greens are ridiculous and you can lose a ball on every hole.

A course here in New Orleans (Lakewood) has literally no out of bounds.  You can hit 200 yard slices and be fine.

Handicaps will always be skewed if they are more than half their rounds on the same course.  Some guys here would look like scratches on the Donald Ross course but couldn't reach most of the Lakewood par 4s in two shots (several 480+).  Some other guys (me, for example) can look like Koepka at Lakewood but can't break 80 on the Ross course that's tight with tough greens.

If your "handicap" is more than half the rounds from one course you don't have a handicap.

Glad to hear Lakewood is still there. Haven’t been there since watching the USF&G back in the early 80’s.

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#76 mackberg

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 04:36 PM

Agree w cradd i am a 4 index and have never shot under par:(

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#77 gpepegolf

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 04:50 PM

Been hovering between a 2.1 - 6.0 index for years. Played as a 2 most of the season and finally shot 2 under one time. Hasn’t been the same since, finished the year at 3.6 and if I don’t come out ready next season, it’s heading north from there.
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#78 davep043

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:15 PM

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I am a 1.5 at my local track, the course rating is 72ish and a slope of 133.  It is 6500 at the tips, which is where I play from.
......
Other than that, I would say my bona fide average score numerically wise is a 75, which would make me a three.
Remember, your worst 50% of scores are thrown out before the scores are averaged for handicap.  Generally, the average of all of your scores is 2 to 3 over par.  A 1.5, on a CR of 72, should expect to average 75 to 77.  I wouldn't be too surprised if a scratch averaged 75, really.

Edited by davep043, 30 October 2018 - 05:25 PM.


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#79 Fairwindsgolfer

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:25 PM

View Postdavep043, on 30 October 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I am a 1.5 at my local track, the course rating is 72ish and a slope of 133.  It is 6500 at the tips, which is where I play from.
......
Other than that, I would say my bona fide average score numerically wise is a 75, which would make me a three.
Remember, your worst 50% of scores are thrown out before the scores are averaged for handicap.  Generally, the average of all of your scores is 2 to 3 over par.  A 1.5, on a CR of 72, should expect to average 75 to 77.  I would be too surprised if a scratch averaged 75, really.
Roger that.
Sometimes I actually feel guilty for telling people that I'm a 1.5, because I know that my average score as mentioned above hovers around the 75.
I actually find myself openly stating that I don't shoot 1 or 2 over very often
But the end of the day the GHIN computes it to whatever it's going to be

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#80 GolfChannel

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 07:12 PM

View Postdavep043, on 30 October 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I am a 1.5 at my local track, the course rating is 72ish and a slope of 133.  It is 6500 at the tips, which is where I play from.
......
Other than that, I would say my bona fide average score numerically wise is a 75, which would make me a three.
Remember, your worst 50% of scores are thrown out before the scores are averaged for handicap.  Generally, the average of all of your scores is 2 to 3 over par.  A 1.5, on a CR of 72, should expect to average 75 to 77.  I wouldn't be too surprised if a scratch averaged 75, really.

I apparently have no actual idea how handicap actually works. I guess my handicap should be lower, but it could be a product of the tees I am playing from (currently playing from the senior tees trying to hit my 66 before moving back another set).

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#81 Typhoon92

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 07:25 PM

That " man maketh the clubs" line is probably right to some degree.  I play:
Ping ie-1/Modus 105 irons
2017 M1 16.5 degree/HZRDUS red (set at 18 degrees)
2016 M2 driver/ HZRDUS yellow HC.

My hdcp is +4.1.

I played Ping eye 2 copper irons before that since the 1980's and had just about the same hdcp.

When I travel, which is rare...usually my wife's yearly convention, i rent.  Still shoot a few to 4 under par on a strange course with rentals.

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#82 jll62

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:11 PM

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 30 October 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I am a 1.5 at my local track, the course rating is 72ish and a slope of 133.  It is 6500 at the tips, which is where I play from.
......
Other than that, I would say my bona fide average score numerically wise is a 75, which would make me a three.
Remember, your worst 50% of scores are thrown out before the scores are averaged for handicap.  Generally, the average of all of your scores is 2 to 3 over par.  A 1.5, on a CR of 72, should expect to average 75 to 77.  I would be too surprised if a scratch averaged 75, really.
Roger that.
Sometimes I actually feel guilty for telling people that I'm a 1.5, because I know that my average score as mentioned above hovers around the 75.
I actually find myself openly stating that I don't shoot 1 or 2 over very often
But the end of the day the GHIN computes it to whatever it's going to be

I can see that. It's been my experience that the average golfer doesn't understand handicap at all. So many people I've spoken to think handicap is just your average minus 72.
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#83 chisag

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:36 PM

... I think the handicap system has little to do with predicting what would be the best score any specific golfer may shoot after posting 20 rounds. It is designed to stop cheating for sandbagging purposes. There is absolutely no reason to drop the 10 worst scores other than to stop sandbagging. Every index is different and some players are pretty consistent in scoring and others vary quite a bit. If all 20 scores were counted I would be closer to a 3 because I have a degenerative disc and some days I just can't swing freely. If I am playing a tourney or a money match and my back is stiff and restrictive on that day, my index kills me. I can ham and egg it around the course but I will not be shooting par or under and will grind out a score around 75 on a course I am familiar playing. There are plenty of people with all kinds of reasons for having a wider range of scores than a 0 index that is in good physical shape and played several times a week and puts in the practice that enables them to be more consistent. I have never been a fan of the handicap system.
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#84 Fairwindsgolfer

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:54 PM

View PostTyphoon92, on 30 October 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

That " man maketh the clubs" line is probably right to some degree.  I play:
Ping ie-1/Modus 105 irons
2017 M1 16.5 degree/HZRDUS red (set at 18 degrees)
2016 M2 driver/ HZRDUS yellow HC.

My hdcp is +4.1.

I played Ping eye 2 copper irons before that since the 1980's and had just about the same hdcp.

When I travel, which is rare...usually my wife's yearly convention, i rent.  Still shoot a few to 4 under par on a strange course with rentals.
God darn man!
Very impressive to be playing to a +4.1!

Out of curiosity, what do you attribute to your great play and do you belong to a private club?

Both questions are born out of golfing curiosity.

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#85 Fairwindsgolfer

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 09:06 PM

View Postchisag, on 30 October 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

... I think the handicap system has little to do with predicting what would be the best score any specific golfer may shoot after posting 20 rounds. It is designed to stop cheating for sandbagging purposes. There is absolutely no reason to drop the 10 worst scores other than to stop sandbagging. Every index is different and some players are pretty consistent in scoring and others vary quite a bit. If all 20 scores were counted I would be closer to a 3 because I have a degenerative disc and some days I just can't swing freely. If I am playing a tourney or a money match and my back is stiff and restrictive on that day, my index kills me. I can ham and egg it around the course but I will not be shooting par or under and will grind out a score around 75 on a course I am familiar playing. There are plenty of people with all kinds of reasons for having a wider range of scores than a 0 index that is in good physical shape and played several times a week and puts in the practice that enables them to be more consistent. I have never been a fan of the handicap system.
The notion of GHIN being designed to avoid sandbagging is a very interesting one.

I have never thought about that, and I always wondered why the hell they drop the 10 worst scores.  

Another thing dawn on me the other day, as I'm walking up the 2nd fairway at my local track and it's pouring cats and dogs on me with the wind ripping about 25 miles an hour...why can't there be a option when you are inputting your score, to select what kind of weather you played in?
For example, player A shoots a 75 in the conditions I listed above, and player B shoots a 75 the next day on the same course, but in 75 degree weather with no rain.  Wouldn't you say player A faced a more challenging course?

I understand that many holes can be found in my hypothesis, but it makes for interesting fodder


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#86 "THE GREEK"

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:29 AM

View Postdavep043, on 30 October 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

View Postmgrowc1, on 30 October 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

20% of the time and a 4 index? Assuming that needs to be updated? I am currently a 2 and have never shot under par.
If you read further on, you'll see that he's simply kept his handicap from last year, doesn't seem to have posted any scores from his current "easier" course.  I'm guessing his newer course has a CR well under par.  From a few other things he's typed, I'm not sure he really understands how handicaps work, and what he should expect to shoot.

I think you may be right!!! Going to speak with someone that truly understand how to calculate my handicap, instead of a friend that claims to know what he is talking about.

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#87 BiggErn

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 02:06 AM

View Post"THE GREEK", on 31 October 2018 - 01:29 AM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 30 October 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

View Postmgrowc1, on 30 October 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

20% of the time and a 4 index? Assuming that needs to be updated? I am currently a 2 and have never shot under par.
If you read further on, you'll see that he's simply kept his handicap from last year, doesn't seem to have posted any scores from his current "easier" course.  I'm guessing his newer course has a CR well under par.  From a few other things he's typed, I'm not sure he really understands how handicaps work, and what he should expect to shoot.

I think you may be right!!! Going to speak with someone that truly understand how to calculate my handicap, instead of a friend that claims to know what he is talking about.

Not sure if you keep an official handicap or have the means to but you can use The Grint app to have a better idea than what your buddy says.

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#88 NRJyzr

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 08:00 AM

View Postmackberg, on 30 October 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

Agree w cradd i am a 4 index and have never shot under par:(


This will make you feel better....  friend of mine, a 9 or so at the time, shot a 69 at the home course, par 71.  He was actually -5 at the turn, the pressure got to him a bit on the back.  Think he doubled #14, hitting a tree less than 100 yds from the tee on the left.  

As far as I know, it's his only time under par.

For those wondering, he was playing tees rated 69.4/121.  :)

FWIW, I've bounced between 5 and 8 for the last 10 seasons, and have never shot under par.
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#89 NRJyzr

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 08:05 AM

View Postjll62, on 30 October 2018 - 08:11 PM, said:

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 30 October 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

View PostFairwindsgolfer, on 30 October 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I am a 1.5 at my local track, the course rating is 72ish and a slope of 133.  It is 6500 at the tips, which is where I play from.
......
Other than that, I would say my bona fide average score numerically wise is a 75, which would make me a three.
Remember, your worst 50% of scores are thrown out before the scores are averaged for handicap.  Generally, the average of all of your scores is 2 to 3 over par.  A 1.5, on a CR of 72, should expect to average 75 to 77.  I would be too surprised if a scratch averaged 75, really.
Roger that.
Sometimes I actually feel guilty for telling people that I'm a 1.5, because I know that my average score as mentioned above hovers around the 75.
I actually find myself openly stating that I don't shoot 1 or 2 over very often
But the end of the day the GHIN computes it to whatever it's going to be

I can see that. It's been my experience that the average golfer doesn't understand handicap at all. So many people I've spoken to think handicap is just your average minus 72.


A lot of folks seem to equate golf and bowling, for reasons unknown.
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Driver:  Cobra King LTD, HZRDUS 75 6.5, 44.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
1 iron:  Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
2-PW, Golden Ram Tour Grind, Dynamic S
SW:  Acer XB 58*, DGS300 tipped
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.5", PP58 midsize grip
(Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35" -or- Mizuno TPM-2, 35" as backups)
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   will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time
Shoes by True Linkswear

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#90 uwhockey14

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 10:33 AM

View Postleejohnkieh, on 30 October 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

I've recently gotten my scores back down to even/under par after I got rid of drivers that didn't work. For me, it's all about feel and look. I went from 910d2 to a 17' M1 to an M2 then to an M3 and now to the Ts3 in a span of 3 years. Tried every shaft known to man and I just could not get by round after round with TM drivers. Wildly inconsistent. I'd play tourneys not knowing where my driver was gonna go that day.

Adam Scott went back to his Titleist 910D3 this year due to accuracy issues and he started to play better instantly. bottom line is, for accomplished players, if you find a driver you can hit straight and are confident with it, stick with it. The extra 4-8 yards you get with "todays" technology isn't worth giving up that confidence and accuracy. My Titleist 913's are in the bag still because I know where they are going, I have them dialed in i'm sure I could go get fitted for a new Driver and get my numbers all dialed in and hit it farther and maybe as straight but I doubt I can find something I trust as much as I do with my 913's under pressure, so they stay in the bag for the time being. Doesn't mean I stop trying new stuff but I just don't see the value in switching just to switch right now.

Titleist 913D2/D3 (8.5) Stiff Diamana
Titleist 910 F (13.5) Stiff (5-Wood Length Diamana)
Cobra Multi-Metal Hybrid Iron 22* Stiff
Titleist 681 4-PW (Tri-Spec- Stiff)
Titleist Vokey Prototype (52,55- R-300)
Cleveland 797 Beryllium Nickel (60) BeNi (R-300)
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Driver Cover (Black Lab)
3-Wood Cover (USA knit pom pom)
Putter Cover (Team USA Ryder Cup)

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