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Guys that shoot under par. What clubs?


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#181 rwhitlock

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:11 PM

I switched from a 917 D3 to the G400 Max (with the tour shaft) and started hitting a lot more fairways.  Irons are AP2's (718) with KBS $-Taper 120.  To be honest, I don't think the equipment makes a huge difference.  For *me* the biggest improvement was the mental side.  Confidence, belief, routines, etc all had a much greater improvement in my score.  

Rod


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#182 Carson33

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:15 PM

View Postrwhitlock, on 06 December 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

To be honest, I don't think the equipment makes a huge difference.  For *me* the biggest improvement was the mental side.  Confidence, belief, routines, etc all had a much greater improvement in my score.  

Rod

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#183 evansmar004

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:18 PM

I don't know about more than not, but I do at a decent rate. I use TM M2 (2016 version) never leaving bag and Mizuno MP18 blades, also never leaving the bag.

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#184 Jskiser

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:55 PM

Taylormade m1 8.5* x stiff tensi orange 80

Mizuno JPX 900 tours 7.0 px

Shot 67 last Sunday.


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#185 emncaity

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:42 AM

View Postcb24, on 26 October 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

My big advice to anyone who to score well, find something you are comfortable and confident with and stick with it and don't even think about getting another set.  Once I started to feel comfortable and trust that these Srixons were the right clubs for me then my scores started getting lower

That's about right.  I was a plus-2 also, then a little better than that as a pro briefly, then plus-2 again for several years after regaining amateur status.  This was quite some time ago, and the clubs I was hitting then (Staff muscle-blades, mostly) were terrific for the time, but really couldn't hold up against better technology today -- and yet, I was breaking par all the time with them.

For one thing, it starts with the short game.  So the question of "what clubs" has to include that, obviously, although it's unbelievable how few players thinking about a new set will take the PW-GW and their usual chipping clubs over to a practice green to see whether they're going to work there. The rightness of a specific model of iron is more important around the green, if anything, than it is on full shots.  Just as one example, one of the things that drove me nuts about newer clubs over the past 20 years was that so many of them were made to keep the ball going forward aggressively no matter where on the face you hit it.  For a long time it felt like PW shots around the green were with about an 8.5 iron.  Everything just barrelled.  So I had to figure out how to handle that, and which clubs minimized that sort of thing.

For another, as cb24 says, it takes some time to get comfortable enough with a set to get the full potential out of them.  Feeling where the sweet spot is to the point where you can usually put it on or close to the ball is not something that happens overnight.  There are also nuances of how the shaft loads, what kind of stress you can put on it at the change of direction, etc. that you work into over time.  Some clubs you can get the most out of by going after them full-bore.  With others, you have to find the rhythm that gets the most out of them.  Something in there is going to be a match for what your inclinations are.  People who are always changing clubs with the idea that the next set is going to be the magic one are never going to get to the point where they use what they have to full advantage.

There are lots of excellent forged irons out there these days.  Almost without exception, the ones generally referred to as "blades," which are invariably musclebacks, are much more forgiving than MBs or blades from a generation or two ago.  You'd probably get through at least 20 or 25 models from at least seven or eight manufacturers before you'd perceive any real decline in performance and feel.

As for drivers, aside from getting fitted well, that's the club you need to work with the most to get the full distance potential.  But basically, they're all long.  Find the one you can hit fairways with.  Same for fairway metals and hybrids.  If you can find a 3-wood you can hit solid and straight for good distance, or one you can hit 15 yards farther but not as straight, keep the first one.  Most of the time you're trying to make 4 on par-5s anyway, and 15 yards isn't going to keep you from doing that.  If you're hitting it off the tee, the principle is same as driver:  Is the difference between 6-iron and 7-iron really worth hitting 30% more of approach shots out of the rough or sand?  Toski used to advise (he may have gotten this from Snead) that if you doubt the value of accuracy off the tee, next time you play, take every ball you hit out of the fairway, back it up 10 yards -- even 20 -- put it in the fairway and hit it from there, then see what your score is.

Re putters, I'm the wrong person to ask.  I'm still trying to figure out why any reasonably good player, let alone a tour pro, would ever need a Jetsons putter with an "expanded sweet spot," or whatever.  How do you miss the sweet spot on a putter?  I'm still using an 8802 replica from the 1980s made by Old Master, switching off with a George Low Wizard replica (unlined) made by MacGregor around 1990 or so, and I don't run across people who putt better.  I'm not saying I'd never switch, but I'm trying to figure out what the point is.

Edited by emncaity, 07 December 2018 - 02:10 AM.


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#186 tomc262

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:25 PM

View Postcb24, on 26 October 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

5 years ago, When I was actually playing really well (for me) and I was in the +2 handicap range I was playing a set of mizuno mp68 irons.  Sold those for AP2s and never have brought my game back.  I went thru 8 sets of irons over the 3 years after I sold the Mizunos and finally settled on a set of Srixon z965s.  I think those under par days are coming back, my birdies are going up as my proximity to the hole is going thru the roof and it's leading to confidence across my game.  

My big advice to anyone who to score well, find something you are comfortable and confident with and stick with it and don't even think about getting another set.  Once I started to feel comfortable and trust that these Srixons were the right clubs for me then my scores started getting lower

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#187 Ben Berube

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 04:25 PM

Great topic.  I once played with this scottish dude with a sunday bag, hiking boots on testing a SQ driver while carrying the bag backwards shoot -2.  I was so lost for many years after this about what makes a good player.  

I also played with a guy who was Div 1 in college but cancer derailed his chances. But he was a +3 at the time, set the record low at this course in Dracut MA with a 64 and played Ti Bubbles and TM irons still from college.  I laughed at him the first time we met to play after seeing his bag and then he took $220 from my wallet.  

There is a top AM here in NH who was a collegiant pitcher but left with an injury and picked up golf.  Well 2-3 years later he wins the State AM as well as a number of other tournies.

I know one thing, you don’t see very many “stupid” scratch players.  In other sports you may find great athletes but are dumb as rocks.  Not much in golf.  I know folks say DJ isn’t that brite but I would beg the differ.
WITB (for this week =)

- Tour Issue R15 430 - 13* (set at 11.5*) w/ Tensi Proto TS 60
- Tour Issue SLDR Mini 14* w/ TP6HD stiff
- Exotics Ex8 19* hybrid
- Mizuno HiFli Circa 2007 w/Petterson utility shaft
- CG Tours in Project X 6.0 - 4-pw
- Trusty Rusty 51 - 59 w/s200's
- Jailbird Mini

-------------***always up for trades***--------------

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#188 Ben Berube

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 06:37 PM

View Post"THE GREEK", on 29 October 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

View Poststk123, on 29 October 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

View Postcradd10, on 28 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

This is why I hate playing in every Member/guest. Guy shoots under par 20% of time and is a 4 handicap.

If that is true then that is stupid. Either that or you are playing a 6000y course with 68 par rating.

I finally got to the plus side handicap this year and only broke 70 twice in my life. When I was first starting out, I got to 6handicap while only breaking 80 a few times. No way a 4 handicap breaks par more than once a year at most courses I see, par rating 73ish and 130 slope

Guess i'm not a 4 handicap anymore then. The course is 6400 and i can overpower it with a driver. The only question is if i'm hitting fairways. I average about 3 over par and definitely get the even par to 1 or 2 under round every 5th round or so. I got my handicap last year at a different track, but was still able to shoot under par around 5 times last year at the tougher course. The course i'm on now is definitely easier, but closer to home. I play around 4 rounds a week. I guess i'll have to test my handicap at the new "easier" course. I just stuck with the handicap from the 7100 course to keep me honest, since most courses aren't as easy as the one i play on regularly now. I would hate to say i'm a 2 handicap and get on a tougher course and shoot 77 or so. All i'm saying is the course i play now is definitely easier and shorter so i can shoot under par every 5th round. Sorry if i have made this confusing to some and got off topic. The op asked for suggestions and i figured i would throw mine out there sorry for the confusion.

Dude thats why you keep a handicap. It keeps you honest...
WITB (for this week =)

- Tour Issue R15 430 - 13* (set at 11.5*) w/ Tensi Proto TS 60
- Tour Issue SLDR Mini 14* w/ TP6HD stiff
- Exotics Ex8 19* hybrid
- Mizuno HiFli Circa 2007 w/Petterson utility shaft
- CG Tours in Project X 6.0 - 4-pw
- Trusty Rusty 51 - 59 w/s200's
- Jailbird Mini

-------------***always up for trades***--------------

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#189 "THE GREEK"

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 06:39 PM

View PostBen Berube, on 09 December 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 29 October 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

View Poststk123, on 29 October 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

View Postcradd10, on 28 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

This is why I hate playing in every Member/guest. Guy shoots under par 20% of time and is a 4 handicap.

If that is true then that is stupid. Either that or you are playing a 6000y course with 68 par rating.

I finally got to the plus side handicap this year and only broke 70 twice in my life. When I was first starting out, I got to 6handicap while only breaking 80 a few times. No way a 4 handicap breaks par more than once a year at most courses I see, par rating 73ish and 130 slope

Guess i'm not a 4 handicap anymore then. The course is 6400 and i can overpower it with a driver. The only question is if i'm hitting fairways. I average about 3 over par and definitely get the even par to 1 or 2 under round every 5th round or so. I got my handicap last year at a different track, but was still able to shoot under par around 5 times last year at the tougher course. The course i'm on now is definitely easier, but closer to home. I play around 4 rounds a week. I guess i'll have to test my handicap at the new "easier" course. I just stuck with the handicap from the 7100 course to keep me honest, since most courses aren't as easy as the one i play on regularly now. I would hate to say i'm a 2 handicap and get on a tougher course and shoot 77 or so. All i'm saying is the course i play now is definitely easier and shorter so i can shoot under par every 5th round. Sorry if i have made this confusing to some and got off topic. The op asked for suggestions and i figured i would throw mine out there sorry for the confusion.

Dude thats why you keep a handicap. It keeps you honest...

I agree that’s why I downloaded an app to calculate my handicap and it has been corrected in my profile.

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#190 Ben Berube

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

View Posthwturner17, on 31 October 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

My boss uses ping g25 irons with graphite shafts and calls his putter a "ping newport". He's a +2, shoots under par 90% of the time I would guess and has a 59 and a couple 60's on his record. I find it funny that he thinks he knows about clubs and shafts but everything I've head him say is either misunderstood or completely off. It's a nice reminder that we, on golfwrx, live in a bubble of equipment nerds of varying degrees. He recently changed clubs (i210's) and went to steel shafts. Shot under par the first round and said he hated the clubs and shafts compared to his old ones lol

Does he play the same course all the time?  Not for nothing but its like that stand in who beat Rory at The Masters couple years ago.  He is the club champ and even in those conditions and with that audiance he bea Rory.

Why is this club champ not Pro you say?  Exactly what I am getting too.  You play the same course hundreds even thousands of times you know secrets and all the misses.  Plus you don’t worry about anything because, well its the back of your hand.

This is why the handicap tracker asks “Home” or “away”.  As for adding in weather thats something everyone has the same of.  Would you really feel good about giving a “rainy day golfer”strokes because all your rounds were “sunny days”, yet you are the same index?  No...  so suck itup, weather is choice for amatures. When you get to scratch or a + it does not matter.

WITB (for this week =)

- Tour Issue R15 430 - 13* (set at 11.5*) w/ Tensi Proto TS 60
- Tour Issue SLDR Mini 14* w/ TP6HD stiff
- Exotics Ex8 19* hybrid
- Mizuno HiFli Circa 2007 w/Petterson utility shaft
- CG Tours in Project X 6.0 - 4-pw
- Trusty Rusty 51 - 59 w/s200's
- Jailbird Mini

-------------***always up for trades***--------------

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#191 Ben Berube

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 07:31 PM

View Postbogeypro, on 21 November 2018 - 12:33 AM, said:

View Postgators78, on 30 October 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

The best guy in the area Nathan Smith (4 time USGA Mid Am Champ) has used pretty much everything. 690MBs at the Merion Walker Cup, had the TM "B" reduced offset irons, played X Hots in the NGL Walker Cup, used Epics for a while, had the regular Callaway Apex irons, he changes clubs a lot.

I’m a +2.5 and change clubs all the time.  It’s a running joke with my friends about how much I change clubs.  

I know what style and what specs fit me so I always get equipment that suits me.   It doesn’t seem to affect my scores much.

You are seriously my hero and what I strive to be.  Ho’s will be Ho’s...
WITB (for this week =)

- Tour Issue R15 430 - 13* (set at 11.5*) w/ Tensi Proto TS 60
- Tour Issue SLDR Mini 14* w/ TP6HD stiff
- Exotics Ex8 19* hybrid
- Mizuno HiFli Circa 2007 w/Petterson utility shaft
- CG Tours in Project X 6.0 - 4-pw
- Trusty Rusty 51 - 59 w/s200's
- Jailbird Mini

-------------***always up for trades***--------------

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#192 Double Mocha Man

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 08:12 PM

I don't always shoot under par, but when I do I use Callaway XR Pro irons.
3.0 GHIN Index - trending down

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#193 matchavez

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Posted Yesterday, 05:44 AM

Pretty clear theme here...

The initial thought is that it's not the clubs, it's the player.
Then it's that players that break par don't change clubs often.
Then it's players who do change damn well know what the specs are.
(Sidenote - it's noted that "players" equipment doesn't vary much when equally spec'd)
Finally, it's where a few players start talking about things that non-scratch players don't and won't understand --

* Repeatability
* Nuance of loading
* Flexibility in different shot types
* Understanding how head shapes help, etc.
* How partial shots work per shape
* Some talk about sticking with a set long enough to find these things

And an aside, the putter can get stuffed because they're all the same unless they're not the one you like.


To wrap it all up, scratches understand how clubs perform and their personal specs, so when they do make changes, it is to meet an expectation that they can then be confident with. Once you are confident and repeatable, you start breaking par.

Sound right?

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#194 NoFancyUsername.

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Posted Yesterday, 07:46 AM

XR16 Pro driver,  FG100's irons.

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#195 Longballjock

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Posted Yesterday, 07:31 PM

I'm a 3 cap in Scotland , handicap system is different. But my average gamegolf handicap is +0.8 for the last 2 seasons. Which is every 18 holes I've played. Some good some really bad.
But out of my last 10 rounds 4 has been under par.
I play with Cobra F8 driver
Taylormade 07 Burner TP 17.5*
Adams Super 9031 21.5* hybrid
Lynx Vt 5-pw
Engage wedges 50/54/60
Nike method 001 proto flowneck
All with Graphite shafts, from my sport beaten joints. (I'm 27 and body in taters)
Added some stats for everyone, as you can see I've shot as low as 4 under but as high as 9 over.

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#196 matchavez

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Posted Yesterday, 09:21 PM

View PostLongballjock, on 10 December 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

I'm a 3 cap in Scotland , handicap system is different. But my average gamegolf handicap is +0.8 for the last 2 seasons. Which is every 18 holes I've played. Some good some really bad.
But out of my last 10 rounds 4 has been under par.
I play with Cobra F8 driver
Taylormade 07 Burner TP 17.5*
Adams Super 9031 21.5* hybrid
Lynx Vt 5-pw
Engage wedges 50/54/60
Nike method 001 proto flowneck
All with Graphite shafts, from my sport beaten joints. (I'm 27 and body in taters)
Added some stats for everyone, as you can see I've shot as low as 4 under but as high as 9 over.

You play with 13?

16

#197 Longballjock

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Posted Yesterday, 09:37 PM

View Postmatchavez, on 10 December 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

View PostLongballjock, on 10 December 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

I'm a 3 cap in Scotland , handicap system is different. But my average gamegolf handicap is +0.8 for the last 2 seasons. Which is every 18 holes I've played. Some good some really bad.
But out of my last 10 rounds 4 has been under par.
I play with Cobra F8 driver
Taylormade 07 Burner TP 17.5*
Adams Super 9031 21.5* hybrid
Lynx Vt 5-pw
Engage wedges 50/54/60
Nike method 001 proto flowneck
All with Graphite shafts, from my sport beaten joints. (I'm 27 and body in taters)
Added some stats for everyone, as you can see I've shot as low as 4 under but as high as 9 over.

You play with 13?

Yeh 13 is my main setup just now , I had a Mizuno Mp18 MMC fli hi 4 iron I throw in every now and again but I don't really need it in the bag to be fair.

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#198 Golfjack

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Posted Yesterday, 10:27 PM

View Post"THE GREEK", on 29 October 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

View Poststk123, on 29 October 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

View Postcradd10, on 28 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View Post"THE GREEK", on 28 October 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't shoot under more often than not, but i shoot under about 20% of the time. I play g400 lst driver with hzrdus black 75 gram in extra stiff. The irons are Bridgestone j15 cb 3-p with x100 shafts.

This is why I hate playing in every Member/guest. Guy shoots under par 20% of time and is a 4 handicap.

If that is true then that is stupid. Either that or you are playing a 6000y course with 68 par rating.

I finally got to the plus side handicap this year and only broke 70 twice in my life. When I was first starting out, I got to 6handicap while only breaking 80 a few times. No way a 4 handicap breaks par more than once a year at most courses I see, par rating 73ish and 130 slope

Guess i'm not a 4 handicap anymore then. The course is 6400 and i can overpower it with a driver. The only question is if i'm hitting fairways. I average about 3 over par and definitely get the even par to 1 or 2 under round every 5th round or so. I got my handicap last year at a different track, but was still able to shoot under par around 5 times last year at the tougher course. The course i'm on now is definitely easier, but closer to home. I play around 4 rounds a week. I guess i'll have to test my handicap at the new "easier" course. I just stuck with the handicap from the 7100 course to keep me honest, since most courses aren't as easy as the one i play on regularly now. I would hate to say i'm a 2 handicap and get on a tougher course and shoot 77 or so. All i'm saying is the course i play now is definitely easier and shorter so i can shoot under par every 5th round. Sorry if i have made this confusing to some and got off topic. The op asked for suggestions and i figured i would throw mine out there sorry for the confusion.
What do you mean you got your handicap last year?  You didn't input any scores from this year?  Or you only take tournament scores and didn't play any this year?  To have a true handicap you should enter all your scores instead of saying you shoot under par 20 percent of the time yet your handicap doesn't show it because you're not inputting those scores.  People don't have a problem with you shooting under par.  It's the way you represent your handicap as accurate.  Handicaps get adjusted to course ratings.  It does seem that you should do some research on how handicap and course ratings work.
Either that or keep playing since you're clearly a really good golfer who cares about the handicap lol.
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Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9.5, Nike VR Pro 4-PW DG x100, Titleist AP2 712 DG x100 4-P, Callaway Jaws X Series CC Wedges 52 56 60, , Odyssey Arm Lock Putter, Gauge Design Eldik Putter with Superstroke Fatso 5

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