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At what age are JGS rankings accurate/relevant?


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#31 iteachgolf

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 04:18 PM

View PostJDee1935, on 14 December 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 10 December 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

View PostJDee1935, on 10 December 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 18 October 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Was chatting with a parent of a well-ranked (top 100 JGS) boy in class of 2023.  He thinks the rankings aren't really reflective of the talent out there for another 2 years, when he would be a sophomore in high school.

Does this make sense?  I would have thought college coaches would be eyeing the rankings of 8th graders and freshmen already to track progress over time?

JGS is not really accurate, nor looked @ by colleges. WAGR, Golfweek, AJGA, are the top ranking systems.

I've seen you mention this a few times.  What makes JGS less accurate than the others?
In JGS, there is very little emphasis put on strength of field, course difficulty etc. They tend to lump tournaments by yardages more than anything. AND they do not report anything USGA, nor anything combining women or men/college players/juniors

Strength of field is 25% of the ranking and the course rating is factoring in course difficulty.  WAGR is a WAY worse system.


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#32 Nevergolfpar

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 08:17 PM

View PostDGord10, on 13 December 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

View PostNevergolfpar, on 13 December 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

I would also recommend you read a previous thread by me, concerning my son's journey through college golf.  It could help you and your child as you continue through your journey in competitive golf and future collegiate success.

I was just trying to find this thread but wasn't able to find it.  Any chance you can link to it?  Thanks!

http://www.golfwrx.c...e#entry16501258

Sorry for the late reply

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#33 Nevergolfpar

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 09:08 PM

View PostDGord10, on 13 December 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

View PostNevergolfpar, on 13 December 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

View PostDGord10, on 10 December 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

Very good point about conditions - particularly an issue with tournaments in April/May around here in Chicago!  Not sure anyone is doing much scoring when its 50 degrees, wet and windy like so much of last spring....  talked to a number of parents of high school kids trying to figure out what to do in the spring - just avoid 2-day tournaments altogether or potentially risk some bad rounds and aberrational scores caused by awful weather which could jeopardize rankings.  I guess I'm going to have to figure that out for next spring.

Don't worry about conditions nor 'rankings'  when it comes to putting together your child's schedule this spring.  My son (if you follow amateur golf in Illinois, you know of my son), a product of Chicagoland golf will finish his D1 eligibility this spring.  When it is all said and done, he will have had 80% of his college paid for, through an athletic golf scholarship.  He was given this opportunity by learning how to compete in the April/May MAGJT (play the IJGA event at Medinah as well) events you are considering bypassing.  Don't do it, play those events!  

While it is correct that your child's scoring differential will be hindered by these events (thus your bogus ranking), you are being short-sighted.  Consider the invaluable lessons your child will learn as they struggle to win in the wind, rain and colder conditions you will likely face.  This adversity will build strength in the long run.

My advice is, unless your son/daughter is a top 10 player for his class, there is no reason at all to chase a 'ranking'.  The only event my son has struggled to get into (when he should have been accepted) is the Western Amateur, which does indeed reward those chasing/buying a ranking or of a certain financial 'pedigree'.

I would also recommend you read a previous thread by me, concerning my son's journey through college golf.  It could help you and your child as you continue through your journey in competitive golf and future collegiate success.

Good thoughts - thanks for posting.  I will definitely go back to find your previous thread - thanks for mentioning it as it sounds like it will be very helpful.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that my son not play in any tournaments during April/May but was trying to think through whether to be more select about it and, though I suspect he won't play in any 1-day tournaments other than qualifiers next summer otherwise, consider whether some early spring tournaments should be 1-day tournaments that will not count in the ratings but still serve to help him start getting into tournament shape as well as continue to learn how to play in the elements.

Part of the issue is also that if a kid plays in a few early tournaments where the weather is bad and scoring is much higher, even if he perseveres and even if he wins the tournament by struggling better than everyone else, those 4 or 6 higher scores early in the season might make it very, very hard for him to have a chance to get into the top 50 or 25 or 10 in their age group during the course of the summer.  It seems like even 6 or 8 or 12 strokes averaged across many rounds can mean the difference of 20-30 spots or more - very uphill battle to come back from scores in the high 70s (or worse) when you are trying to get your differential down to around 0-2 (even with 25% of the scores culled from the calculation).  Not sure feeling like he is starting the season in a "hole" that he has to dig out of is good for learning, etc. either....

The other part of the issue is that it is very hard to know when the conditions are a helpful learning experience and when they are just plain stupid - fine line I think.   A couple years ago my son was signed up for a tournament at the end of April - it was windy, raining and mid 40s - we pulled our son (I actually think they called the tournament after about 2-3 hours because it got worse).  Should we have let him go out there?  Seemed very wrong at the time.  He's played many tournaments in the rain and wind - even "cooler" but just not sure brutal conditions are worth being out there.

At any rate, I really don't know yet how important ratings ultimate become - and it could be different for different kids at different ages and different ability levels - do you forego a couple of speculative "harsh condition" learning experiences in early spring potentially for an extra 20 or 40 spots all other things equal?  I don't know.....  I do think that there will be certain tournaments that will be musts - such as any of the Medinah invitationals that he can play in (though as I recall it was actually cancelled this year due to bad weather).

Good post by you.  

Let me give you another consideration to consider as you make your foray into the Chicagoland junior golf experience.  

Should you forego the early season MAJGT events (or the AJGA Junior All-Star which is usually in the area), the kids your child will compete against later in the summer, will indeed play.  Let's assume for a second that the weather is indeed bad and their scores suffer as a result.  

Now fast forward until June when the weather is nice and you are entering your child to play in these events.  How do you think the April results of tournaments you did not even enter, will affect the strength of field modifier of the June tournaments you are playing?  In a sense even if you do not play in April, your child will be adversely (albeit indirectly) affected by the by the results of an event they did not even play!

My son was fortunate enough to compete in an era of Illinois golf which included Doug Ghim and Nick Hardy (arguably the two best players to ever come out of the Chicago golf scene).  Doug didn't stop playing MAJGT until he won his first AJGA invitational tournament when he was 14 or 15.  In essence, at that point he and his father made the conscience decision to focus on golf ranking and it worked out for him (Doug played only 1 year-his freshman year, of high school golf).  He would ultimately play at the University of Texas and rise to be the #1 amateur in the world!  Doug would also end up being the low amateur at the Masters this past year!

Nick Hardy on the other hand would continue to make a mark on the Chicagoland golf scene.  In my opinion Nick is every bit as good as Doug and rose to #8 in the world as an amateur.  I believe he currently hold the state record in the Illinois State Amateur, having shot 28 under over 4 rounds!  Nick continued to compete in an occasional MAJGT or other local event when it did not clash with a more prestigious AJGA.  He did compete in the early season Chicagoland events.   In essence, Nick elected not to chase a 'ranking'.  Did it hurt him?  No as he would end up playing at the University of Illinois and has played in two US Opens thus far!  

To give you an idea of how good these two were on the Illinois junior golf scene.  They met in the match play Finals of the IJGA's Chick Evans golf tournament as 14 year olds (18 and under tournament)!  

Side note and me being a proud dad, the last time my son faced both of these accomplished players in an event 18 months ago, my son beat them both!  Vindication after years of getting his butt whipped in junior golf (also proof that over time things even out)

The bottom line is there is more than one road to any destination you choose.  The only question is how you choose to travel it.

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