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Quick questions about hard stepping, swingweights affect on flex


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#1 kruege

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:48 PM

I recently acquired a combo set of srixon (565,765,965) of the bay with project x PXI 5.5 shafts.  They were supposedly a half inch short, but in actuality were a 1/4 inch long based on a a 38" 5 iron.  I currently play KBS Tour 120S in a set of adams CB2 irons and feel that those are the correct flex for my swing.  My searches have shown that the pxi should perform fairly close to the KBS but there are differences on opinion of trying to match flex.  Some say the 5.5 are softer than the KBS and some say they are pretty much the same flex.  The irons currently swing weight out at d5 (5 iron) to just over d6 (pw).

here are my concerns:
Will the heavier swing weights cause the shafts to play softer than if they were at D2-D3?  If so, how much?  If when i test them out I feel that they aren't quite stiff enough, would cutting them down a half inch from the butt to make them more a d2-d3 take care of that?

I am also considering (depending on my testing yet to come this weekend) hardstepping the shafts.  Since they are 1/4 over (38" 5 iron), they would become 1/4 under if i hard stepped which would be just fine by me.  If I hard step, what do you do about the wedge? Since i would be putting the wedge shaft in the 9 iron, purchasing another wedge shaft would make no change to the shaft flex in the PW.  Do you then tip the taper tip shaft (3/8 to take care of the 3 cpm that you are changing by hardstepping - per one of Howards posts)?  Could i put a KBS Tour 120S wedge shaft in the PW and come close to the same flex? ( i currently have an extra KBS wedge shaft at the house and from some quick looking on line, a PXI 5.5 wedge shaft is going to be a little pricier than i was hoping for)

Thank you for reading and for any insight or tips you can share.

I will be doing any and all the work on irons my self in my shop, so there isn't really a cost involved on my side besides my time and some ferrules.

Edited by kruege, 11 October 2018 - 01:48 PM.

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#2 81PING

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:56 PM

Well. Off the get go I would say of 5.5 are not too similar to KBS Tour 120s. They are 13g lighter and softer in flex. This will be noticeable.

I would skip the whole p.xi 5.5 experiment...pull them...sell them...buy KBS 120 pulls and swing away.

If the heads are d5/6at .25 over they will come out closer to d3 when shortened.

Edited by 81PING, 11 October 2018 - 01:57 PM.

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#3 Cwebb

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 02:09 PM

Cutting a 1/2" off and not adding any head weight, will make them play as if they are hard-stepped in relation to how they flex now.

Here's the bend profile comparison....

Pxi 5.5..............209, 249, 298, 375, 514, 849

KBS Tour 'S'....226, 263, 330, 409, 564, 900

You would have to go all the way up to the Pxi 6.5 to get somewhat close......

Pxi 6.5.............215, 259, 310, 395, 541, 904

Edited by Cwebb, 11 October 2018 - 02:12 PM.


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#4 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:39 AM

View Postkruege, on 11 October 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

here are my concerns:
Will the heavier swing weights cause the shafts to play softer than if they were at D2-D3?  If so, how much?  If when i test them out I feel that they aren't quite stiff enough, would cutting them down a half inch from the butt to make them more a d2-d3 take care of that?

Depends on how much of the higher swing weight comes from the added length and how much comes from head weight being 'above' standard.  

At only +1/4" and D5, I would guess that head weight is a factor - but with a rough estimate of only about 4-5 grams heavy (assuming close to std grip weight).  That's roughly the equivalent of just 1/2 to 2/3'rds of a soft step.  Which is a very minor influence on the flex. Almost sounds like they choose the head weights for the shorter build but just messed up when cutting the length.   So chances are that butt cutting down 1/2" - and keeping the head weights the same, wont' likely change the flex noticeably.  But everyone has different sensitivities so you never know until you try. Basically a quick test is to choke up that 1/2" and see how they feel.


View Postkruege, on 11 October 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

I am also considering (depending on my testing yet to come this weekend) hardstepping the shafts.  Since they are 1/4 over (38" 5 iron), they would become 1/4 under if i hard stepped which would be just fine by me.  

That might be the way to go if yo want to stick with those shafts.   Remember that stepping x1 is generally only a fairly subtle change.  It may help but there is also a chance it may not be enough help.  But you can always try it with one club and test before stepping the whole set.


View Postkruege, on 11 October 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

If I hard step, what do you do about the wedge? Since i would be putting the wedge shaft in the 9 iron, purchasing another wedge shaft would make no change to the shaft flex in the PW.  Do you then tip the taper tip shaft (3/8 to take care of the 3 cpm that you are changing by hardstepping - per one of Howards posts)?

With the slower swing speeds and shorter playing length, not being able to hard step the wedge shaft may not actually be a problem.   Have you hit the wedge as it is now to judge how it feels?

Edited by Stuart G., 12 October 2018 - 04:09 AM.


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#5 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:51 AM

View PostCwebb, on 11 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

Here's the bend profile comparison....

Pxi 5.5..............209, 249, 298, 375, 514, 849

KBS Tour 'S'....226, 263, 330, 409, 564, 900

Is that the parallel or tapered version of the KBS Tour "S" ?   I think the adam's CB2's were parallel. And I think I remember Tom saying that data wasn't as accurate when comparing taper to parallel tip iron shafts.

Not that I think it matters all that much - I agree there is still going to be a signficant difference between the PXi 5.5 and the KBS Tour S even for the parallel version.

Edited by Stuart G., 12 October 2018 - 03:53 AM.


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#6 Howard Jones

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:56 AM

View PostCwebb, on 11 October 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

Cutting a 1/2" off and not adding any head weight, will make them play as if they are hard-stepped in relation to how they flex now.

Here's the bend profile comparison....

Pxi 5.5..............209, 249, 298, 375, 514, 849

KBS Tour 'S'....226, 263, 330, 409, 564, 900

You would have to go all the way up to the Pxi 6.5 to get somewhat close......

Pxi 6.5.............215, 259, 310, 395, 541, 904

PXi 5.5 is a tad softer than KBS tour R flex at 110 grams where we can say KBS R is equal to "PXi 5.75" or in the middle of PXI 5.5 and 6.0, so its a large step up to KBS Tour S and more than 1 flex

SW vs flex is 1.1 so depending on what we say is "standard" (D2 or D3) 1 SWP extra is 1 CPM softer and 10 CPM is considered to be 1 flex so a set build to D5-D6 would be in the area of SS1 on flex.

if you hard step them they will play closer to PXi 6.0 (3-4 cpm stronger with the same SW value), but now in-between KBS R and PXI 6.0, but if they are to high on SW now, and the drop is good for you, those 3 SW points will be converted to 3 CPM and stiffen the shaft further form hard stepping and then you can get a set a hair stronger than PXI 6.0, but still way softer than KBS Tour S flex.

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#7 kruege

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:13 AM

Thanks for the replies and information everyone.  I haven't had a chance to hit any of the irons yet, hoping to get out Saturday afternoon (the high is only supposed to be around 50, but no rain which is nice).  I bought the set mainly to get the heads, for the price i paid the shafts installed where not a concern.  I just figured there was no reason to not try them since I have never hit a club with a pxi in it.  Wanted to get an idea of my options and things to expect/look out for.
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Adams Super LS XTD 18* NS Pro Rizy 65S
Tour Edge Exotics CB ProTungsten 3 KBS 110R black chrome HS-1
Tour Edge Exotics CB ProTungsten 4 KBS 120S black chrome
Tour Edge Exotics CB ProTungsten 5-6 KBS 120S
Adams Idea Pro Black CB2 7-PW KBS 120S
Fourteen RM 21 48.08  KBS Tour 120S
Titleist Vokey SM6 56.08  KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 black chrome   
Titleist Vokey SM5 60.04 KBS H-Rev 2.0 black chrome
Tour Edge Exotics DG Tour Series 4.1 black 33" - SS skulls pistol 2.0 CC

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