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Congratulations Retief


91 replies to this topic

#31 JDax

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 03:11 PM

I’ve always viewed the Golf Hall of Fame as a Hall of very good players, but not necessarily a Hall of Fame... It’s too easy to get in the Golf Hall of Fame.


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#32 IVM

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 03:15 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 10 October 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

View PostIVM, on 10 October 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Congratulations to Retief . A quality player who won 2 US Opens and won tournaments all over the world .

Agree. What's the problem?
There is not one .

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#33 Darth Putter

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 03:45 PM

View PostFerguson, on 10 October 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 10 October 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 10 October 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

HOF - what are the latest qualifications?

A good haircut, a few wins and the ability to do a card trick?



CASE IN POINT - Fred Couples
Like his game and loved watching him play but he should NOT be in the Hall.

He is about 54th on the pga tour win list. And there are 160 in the hall of fame. How does he not fit in? Masters winner. 62 professional wins.

Hes rightfully in the HOF


Only 1 major, that he barely won.  Fred got in due to popularity.  

Another guy to think about - if handsome Adam Scott retires with his current number of wins and only 1 major, I would say the same thing about him.
He stays out.



For player nominees, I think the HOF should be a minimum of:

2-majors with 15 wins minimum
- or -
1-major and 20 PGA wins

among the current Hall of Famers eliminated

Harry Cooper 31 wins 0 majors
Tom Kite 19/1 (Dustin Johnson would need one more win to qualify)
Tommy Bolt and Fred Couples 15/1
Jock Hutchison 14/2
Ken Venturi 14/1
Roberto De Vicenzo 8/1 (I assume it's 15 PGA Tour wins, these international players will clear 15 overall wins)
David Graham 8/2
Lawson Little 8/1
Chi Chi Rodriguez 8/0
Retief Goosen 7/2
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#34 wcbjr

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:03 PM

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 10 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .
Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF

Luke Donald?  Probably not.

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#35 Shilgy

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:33 PM

Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

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#36 lowheel

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:44 PM

View PostShilgy, on 10 October 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

I rate Wadkins above Couples. Hype Versus results

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#37 cdnglf

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:14 PM

View PostShilgy, on 10 October 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?

If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.

Both are south of the DL3 line.

Edited by cdnglf, 10 October 2018 - 07:14 PM.


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#38 cgbm

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:16 PM

Couples was the first american to reach world number one.

As a world number 1 you prob should be in the hof

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#39 bladehunter

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:54 PM

View Postcgbm, on 10 October 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Couples was the first american to reach world number one.

As a world number 1 you prob should be in the hof

If you stay there longer than say,  3 months straight.  This ď Iím #1 for a day or two. Or 3 weeks is nonsense and in my eyes doesnít really count.

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#40 cgbm

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 08:30 PM

Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.

Good nuff?


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#41 Bingo1976

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:04 PM

View Postcgbm, on 10 October 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.

Good nuff?

Ah, then we need to set the bar at 17 weeks....

HoF is a dumb idea anyway, it's just some random building in a swamp in Florida.
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#42 FootWedge16

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:19 PM

View PostBingo1976, on 10 October 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 10 October 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.

Good nuff?

Ah, then we need to set the bar at 17 weeks....

HoF is a dumb idea anyway, it's just some random building in a swamp in Florida.

Great idea or dumb idea, Goosen definitely doesnít belong in it.

Edited by FootWedge16, 10 October 2018 - 10:19 PM.


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#43 bscinstnct

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:27 PM

View PostBingo1976, on 10 October 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

View Postcgbm, on 10 October 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.

Good nuff?

Ah, then we need to set the bar at 17 weeks....

HoF is a dumb idea anyway, it's just some random building in a swamp in Florida.

Rough morning for the Asian markets. We feelin it too.

But no need to take it out on Florida ; )

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#44 iBanesto

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 03:59 AM

Congrats to Retief Goosen.

In my opinion, this is one of the best rounds of golf ever played.



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#45 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:59 AM

View Postwcbjr, on 10 October 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 10 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .
Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF

Luke Donald?  Probably not.
While not as ďimpressive with no majors ď
He was ahead of Rory bubba , bubba , rose , woods Mickelson Johnson to name a few
http://dps.endavadig...owgr21f2012.pdf

I think being owgr number 1 is still underrated and for that alone he should be in HOF.


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#46 smeech8000

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:09 AM

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 11 October 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

View Postwcbjr, on 10 October 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 10 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .
Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF

Luke Donald?  Probably not.
While not as "impressive with no majors "
He was ahead of Rory bubba , bubba , rose , woods Mickelson Johnson to name a few
http://dps.endavadig...owgr21f2012.pdf

I think being owgr number 1 is still underrated and for that alone he should be in HOF.

A tremendous feat, no doubt.  Donald sat on the throne for 40 consecutive weeks at his peak in 2011-12, 56 weeks in all after trading seats with Rory throughout the summer of 2012.  But no majors, not even a Players', and his win total is one shy of the requisite 15 under current qualification criteria.

What about Martin Kaymer?  8 weeks total, 2 majors and 23 professional wins (3 PGA, 11 Euro) - he is in under current criteria.

Lee Westwood?  22 weeks total, 42 professional wins (2 PGA, 23 Euro - good for T-8 all-time on the ET) - also good enough under current criteria.

So despite Donald having the more impressive run as #1, he never closed the deal in one of the 5 biggest events during that span, and his career win total would keep him out were his career to end today.  Luke Donald is not a name that will be memorable 50 years from now.  Granted, guys like Shaun Micheel or Ben Curtis may not be either, but at least they have the potential to be an answer to a trivia question!

Weight should be given to a stint at #1, but I'm not sure how you normalize it for length.  Under the current criteria, a win is a win is a win, but how do you weight a 2-week #1 vs. a 20-week #1?  Too much subjectivity IMO.


The WGHOF assigns special value to winning the Players', which (IMO) is one of the reasons Couples' record is superior to that of Scott's.  Also two Vardon's and POTY's.  Probably a bit of a penalty against Adam on that front as he has played more internationally rather than focusing on the PGA Tour, but I think this is a great comparison of a couple guys that could have achieved so much more.  Many reasons why they didn't.

Of course, Adam isn't finished playing yet...
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#47 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:04 PM

Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isnít ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.

Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof

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#48 FootWedge16

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:19 PM

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 12 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isnít ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.

Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof

Sorry, I completely disagree. #1 OWGR is a made up ranking using made up criteria.

What about all of the guys that could have been number one if Tiger didnít have a stranglehold on it for a decade?

Wins are what matter. 20 wins is significantly more important than being the so called number one player.

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#49 Darth Putter

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 03:25 PM

View Postsmeech8000, on 12 October 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 11 October 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

View Postwcbjr, on 10 October 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 10 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .
Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF

Luke Donald?  Probably not.
While not as "impressive with no majors "
He was ahead of Rory bubba , bubba , rose , woods Mickelson Johnson to name a few
http://dps.endavadig...owgr21f2012.pdf

I think being owgr number 1 is still underrated and for that alone he should be in HOF.



The WGHOF assigns special value to winning the Players', which (IMO) is one of the reasons Couples' record is superior to that of Scott's.

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#50 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 04:23 PM

View PostFootWedge16, on 12 October 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 12 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isnít ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.

Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof

Sorry, I completely disagree. #1 OWGR is a made up ranking using made up criteria.

What about all of the guys that could have been number one if Tiger didnít have a stranglehold on it for a decade?

Wins are what matter. 20 wins is significantly more important than being the so called number one player.

Tiger was clearly the best in the world at that point , no arguing about it. Everyoneís using the same criteria itís not like itís favoring Luke Donald to make him number one ..... being the best in the world should account for getting into the HOF


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#51 Shilgy

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 04:47 PM

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 12 October 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

View PostFootWedge16, on 12 October 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 12 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isnít ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.

Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof

Sorry, I completely disagree. #1 OWGR is a made up ranking using made up criteria.

What about all of the guys that could have been number one if Tiger didnít have a stranglehold on it for a decade?

Wins are what matter. 20 wins is significantly more important than being the so called number one player.

Tiger was clearly the best in the world at that point , no arguing about it. Everyoneís using the same criteria itís not like itís favoring Luke Donald to make him number one ..... being the best in the world should account for getting into the HOF
I agree with you-almost. The hof is a career award normally. A longevity award if you will. Reaching number one, even without a major, is a two year at most endeavor. Without more wins and/or majors it's hard to put him in.
  An interesting subject would be a Koepka type career.  If he stopped cold or got injured and never won again is he in? Four wins and three majors.


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#52 cdnglf

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:53 PM

I guess Iíll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1

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#53 Loki

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:00 PM

Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time.  A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope.  He wasn't a pro golfer.  AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know.  Go play golf instead.

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#54 Shilgy

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:09 PM

View Postcdnglf, on 12 October 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

I guess Iíll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1
Really to me reaching #1 is another feather in the cap for a HOF candidate. Totals wins, major wins, poty awards, owgr status at peak, WGC wins, other big event wins, team event play, money list/FedEx cup results...
  The total career is what matters to me. Not a cut and dried criteria of x number of wins and y majors.  Make the cut off whatever and someone is at the bottom. Make it 20 wins and 2 majors and Norman is the cut off. Wadkins and Crenshaw would both be out. I'll take the top few from every era and enshrine then.
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#55 cdnglf

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:18 PM

View PostShilgy, on 12 October 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 12 October 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1
Really to me reaching #1 is another feather in the cap for a HOF candidate. Totals wins, major wins, poty awards, owgr status at peak, WGC wins, other big event wins, team event play, money list/FedEx cup results...
  The total career is what matters to me. Not a cut and dried criteria of x number of wins and y majors.  Make the cut off whatever and someone is at the bottom. Make it 20 wins and 2 majors and Norman is the cut off. Wadkins and Crenshaw would both be out. I'll take the top few from every era and enshrine then.

I agree. There are many different combinations that could qualify someone for the HoF.

There has to be some way of pre-screening the candidates though, and I think the current baseline for inclusion on the ballot (15 wins or 2 majors/players) is fine.


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#56 lowheel

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:38 PM

View Postcdnglf, on 12 October 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1

Listen it was deserved.I think he won like 3-4 times in 18 months including the British and finished like 2nd or 3 in back to back US opens. If he could putt with any regularity hed have 3-4 majors and 15 wins easily

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#57 buckeyefl

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:39 PM

View PostLoki, on 12 October 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.

Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time.  A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope.  He wasn't a pro golfer.  AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know.  Go play golf instead.

That horse left the barn long ago. I am not sure I would have too much negative to say about this career after a stroll through the Bob Hope experience.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Retief_Goosen

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#58 lowheel

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:40 PM

If David Graham is in so is Retief...

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#59 cdnglf

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:52 PM

View Postlowheel, on 12 October 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 12 October 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1

Listen it was deserved.I think he won like 3-4 times in 18 months including the British and finished like 2nd or 3 in back to back US opens. If he could putt with any regularity hed have 3-4 majors and 15 wins easily

He got a bit lucky in that his 9.9 average points was enough (it usually takes > 10), but I don't have a problem with him getting to #1.
I just think that doesn't automatically make him a Hall of Famer.

Edited by cdnglf, 12 October 2018 - 08:55 PM.


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#60 Darth Putter

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:17 PM

View Postlowheel, on 12 October 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

If David Graham is in so is Retief...

I've got my if "Chi Chi is in so is Stricker" argument ready to go.

swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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