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Can I feel 1/2" Shaft Change?


51 replies to this topic

#31 tom.lockhart

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 03:05 PM

 trying2scratch, on 08 October 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Food for thought too, that too light a swing weight/total weight can accentuate the out to in/over the top tendency.

Perhaps Titleist used lighter heads to try to achieve the light swing weight/graphite with the shorter build?

Absolutely, reading this thread has me thinking it's less of a length issue, and more of a swingweight/weight and potentially a lie angle issue. I'm going to start with some lead tape and see where I will end up. I'm going to have to add a TON to it, because I believe my clubs are most likely in C7 range, reading about others experience switching to the steelfibers.

Titleist 917 D2 10.5* (9.75*) Diamana D+
Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana S+
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Titleist 816 H1 19* Atmos Blue
Titleist 816 H1 23* Diamana S+
Titleist 718 AP1 5-W i95 Steelfiber
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#32 halliedog

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 04:01 PM

I thought I've read a few other posts where Steelfibers were designed to play closer to steel in SW?  D2 to C7 would seem dramatic with all else being the same with only 1/2" change in length?
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#33 tom.lockhart

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 05:11 PM

 halliedog, on 08 October 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

I thought I've read a few other posts where Steelfibers were designed to play closer to steel in SW?  D2 to C7 would seem dramatic with all else being the same with only 1/2" change in length?

http://www.golfwrx.c...ngweight-issue/

This post here is someone who had a set "built to spec" by Titleist but the swingweights were between c9 - d0. This was on a standard length iron. I can't say for sure until I take my sticks in to the shop I bought them from tomorrow to confirm what sw's mine came with.

The steelfibers play close to steel based on the flex/control but everything I've read the SW's are all over the place. Had I known this previously, I would not have made the move. This is proving to be quite the headache.

Edited by tom.lockhart, 08 October 2018 - 05:12 PM.

Titleist 917 D2 10.5* (9.75*) Diamana D+
Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana S+
Titleist 917 F2 18* Diamana S+
Titleist 816 H1 19* Atmos Blue
Titleist 816 H1 23* Diamana S+
Titleist 718 AP1 5-W i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM6 54.10S
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#34 Stuart G.

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 03:15 AM

The balance of the i95's are not "all over the place" -  they balance only about 1-2 SW pts lighter than most steel shafts. The i110's and i125's are worse but if you see SW's with the i95's "all over the place" the source of the problem is the head weights, not the shaft.

Edited by Stuart G., 09 October 2018 - 03:15 AM.


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#35 tom.lockhart

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 02:47 PM

To anyone following this or wondering.

I took the irons in today and sure enough, all 7 of them came in at C6!!! Talk about LIGHT.

So this evening I will be adding a TON of lead tape to each one to get it up to a D1/D2 range and then going from there.

Needless to say i'm very upset with Titleist for not building the clubs to the D1 specified on the order.

Titleist 917 D2 10.5* (9.75*) Diamana D+
Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana S+
Titleist 917 F2 18* Diamana S+
Titleist 816 H1 19* Atmos Blue
Titleist 816 H1 23* Diamana S+
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#36 trying2scratch

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:50 PM

Oh man!  That sucks!  I would be pissed too.  Club champion can surely cut you a break to put in some tip weights can't they?  

4 swing weight points is way over any acceptable range for new clubs ordered/built to spec.  Asking a customer to put on 10g of lead tape on to new clubs seems to fly in the face of anything they claim to stand for or advertise.

I just had some 10g tip weights added and it's fairly straight forward.  I know graphite is different slightly but should be doable?

I would definately try to contact them and see what can be done.

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#37 Howard Jones

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 12:00 AM

 trying2scratch, on 10 October 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:

Oh man!  That sucks!  I would be pissed too.  Club champion can surely cut you a break to put in some tip weights can't they?  

4 swing weight points is way over any acceptable range for new clubs ordered/built to spec.  Asking a customer to put on 10g of lead tape on to new clubs seems to fly in the face of anything they claim to stand for or advertise.

I just had some 10g tip weights added and it's fairly straight forward.  I know graphite is different slightly but should be doable?

I would definately try to contact them and see what can be done.

There is some 9 grams tungsten tip wgt for graphites, so the question is, are there any tip weights in use already and how large are they?, will changing to a 9 gram get those clubs to target?

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#38 trying2scratch

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:44 AM

I would think you may have to use a combo of tip weights and possibly more length to get back to your target.  Maybe go back to Std playing length or -1/4 then use the heavy tip weight too.

That's why I was questioning going shorter off the hop with expensive graphite.  The fitter should have know/disclosed this...  Your strikes where fine at std length, could have been easily fine tuned after the build.

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#39 tom.lockhart

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 10:48 AM

 trying2scratch, on 11 October 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

I would think you may have to use a combo of tip weights and possibly more length to get back to your target.  Maybe go back to Std playing length or -1/4 then use the heavy tip weight too.

That's why I was questioning going shorter off the hop with expensive graphite.  The fitter should have know/disclosed this...  Your strikes where fine at std length, could have been easily fine tuned after the build.

Exactly.

I'm not very happy at the moment. I think to get these things to a D2 without using lead tape i'm going to have to have them extended and then the heavy tips. It's going to cost a ton more than just ordering them standard and having titleist build them at D2.

Will I have any negative effects to the playability of the clubs if I extend them? Obviously I will need to get the lies adjusted accordingly. How many swing weight points would moving up 1/2" provide?

Edited by tom.lockhart, 11 October 2018 - 10:50 AM.

Titleist 917 D2 10.5* (9.75*) Diamana D+
Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana S+
Titleist 917 F2 18* Diamana S+
Titleist 816 H1 19* Atmos Blue
Titleist 816 H1 23* Diamana S+
Titleist 718 AP1 5-W i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM6 54.10S
2016 Bettinardi BB1
Snell MTB Black

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#40 Stuart G.

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 11:59 AM

 tom.lockhart, on 11 October 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

Will I have any negative effects to the playability of the clubs if I extend them?

If the reasons for fitting you to -1/2" in the first place were valid, then probably.

 tom.lockhart, on 11 October 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

How many swing weight points would moving up 1/2" provide?

About 3 sw pts.

C6 is a little surprising, even for i95's and -1/2" - unless you also have mid-sized grips?  

With normal "standard" weight heads (not necessarily Titleist's standard), I would have expected more like C8 w/ 50 gm grips with no tip weights.


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#41 trying2scratch

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:09 PM

View Posttom.lockhart, on 08 October 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

Thanks for all the feedback.

To clear a few things up with the fitting, it was done at Club Champion and the progressions was something like this:
  • Hit about 10 shots with my current 6 iron
  • Measurements done on my current 6 iron (SW, lie, loft) and then on myself and that's when we began testing shafts, all were 1/2" short.
  • Worked through about 20 shafts and it was clear there were 2 that were working out much better, the numbers with the i95 had us settled on that
  • Then we worked through about 8 different heads and the AP1 head was producing the best results
  • After this, he then was adding lead tape to the hosel to determine SW, we settled on a D1 swingweight
  • After this we did the vertical line test to determine lie angle, I will say that when doing the vertical test we looked at both the standard shaft and the 1/2" shorter - coinincidentally, the strikes on the 1/2" shorter were a bit towards the toe, but lower on the face, the strikes with the 1/2" longer, were right in the center of the clubface but a little high on the face. The fitter determined that the 1/2" shorter was the choice for me.
I'm going to take the clubs to where I ordered them tomorrow and have the SW's checked, we clearly specified to Titleist that we wanted a D1 swingweight, but I've read a few other posts with these exact same shafts that sometimes Titleist won't be able to add enough weight to take the clubs to the specified SW. Which seems a little BS to me, but we'll see. I've had the sticks for about 3 weeks, if they weren't built at the proper SW is this something I could send back to Titleist?

Once I know what the actual SW is - I'm going to add lead tape to get them to where I believe they should be - D1/D2 SW. I'm going to play with them for a few rounds/range sessions and see if things change.


I'm not a fitter, but based on this I would say you are fine with adding the 1/2 inch back to get to std length.  That's what you are used to playing anyway...  That's why this whole thing sounds wrong from the get go.

I think it may be one of the only options to get your swing weight back to desired level without too much extra trouble. Imo the place you bought them from should do this and the tip weights at no charge since you bought from them.  Or they can deal with Titleist direct and re order the set or get them to cover cost of adjustments.  These were a lot of money and shaft up charge, and to get clubs that are not playable seems absolutely unacceptable.

Edited by trying2scratch, 11 October 2018 - 05:10 PM.


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#42 rybo

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

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#43 Buzzkill

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 09:22 PM

View Posthalliedog, on 08 October 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

I thought I've read a few other posts where Steelfibers were designed to play closer to steel in SW? D2 to C7 would seem dramatic with all else being the same with only 1/2" change in length?

Weird!  3 swing points drop is normal per my experience and company response/acknowledgement.

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#44 Howard Jones

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

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#45 trying2scratch

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:46 AM

I think I may owe you a virtual case of beer then!  Diy driver tune up, putter tune up, swing weight, diy moi, etc.  Your knowledge is what keeps me glued to the club tech threads.  Cheers!


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#46 Howard Jones

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:55 AM

View Posttrying2scratch, on 12 October 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

I think I may owe you a virtual case of beer then!  Diy driver tune up, putter tune up, swing weight, diy moi, etc.  Your knowledge is what keeps me glued to the club tech threads.  Cheers!

You are most welcome, i hope those DIY made a improvement for you?

i also hope the OP keep us updated on this irons, he is far from alone with a experience like that, and this is things that should not happen, but it does all the time and thats a big shame and makes players to question the whole golf industry. For Titleist this is bad, since they have made fitting a important part of their sale policy, but if they cant deliver the specs a fitting suggest, why go for a Titleist fitting then?

Edited by Howard Jones, 13 October 2018 - 01:31 AM.


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#47 tom.lockhart

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 11:18 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

I owe you a damn KEG!

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Now I just have to decide if I  leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

Edited by tom.lockhart, 12 October 2018 - 11:23 AM.

Titleist 917 D2 10.5* (9.75*) Diamana D+
Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana S+
Titleist 917 F2 18* Diamana S+
Titleist 816 H1 19* Atmos Blue
Titleist 816 H1 23* Diamana S+
Titleist 718 AP1 5-W i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM6 54.10S
2016 Bettinardi BB1
Snell MTB Black

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#48 Howard Jones

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:35 AM

View Posttom.lockhart, on 12 October 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

I owe you a damn KEG!

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Now I just have to decide if I  leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

This is my suggestion if this ends up with that you would have to take care of this your self.
Most of us benefit from shorter long irons, but thats not always good in the short end, and you have already noticed that, but we can actually have both. You have also found that resistance and balance is highly important for you, and that leads me to suggest a 3/8" set up with progressive SW value to "poor mans moi match".

If the 3/8" route is new for you, spend some minutes to read about it in this tread where the issues was the same...going shorter like you starting out now, but there was options this players have not heard of before, but a few of them in the tread saw the idea and consept as interesting and did it.

In your case that means we can leave the longest iron as it is now, nd then add extensions to the others both for play lenght and SW reason, and since we are adding 1/8" then 2/8" then 3/8" vs how they are now, we add 0.75 SWP for each 1/8"
If your set up is 3-PW then a start from the #7 iron gives a #3 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)
if your set up is 4-PW then a start from the #8 iron gives a #4 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)
Both this set ups gives a short end in the area of standard play lenght, so you go longer vs now into the short.

Start with this post, and study the chart for starting points to see how the different 3/8" set ups looks like vs standard, we can get the short or long or both ends adjusted vs standard so our stance and ability to make a good impact is the best "all the way"....
Using Progressive SW with a slope of 0.5 SWP on 3/8" sets makes all clubs to be "identical" on actual resistance, so when we have tuned up our favorite club, and measured what SW value that club has when it works as we want it, we draw the SW slope both ways from that club to get target values for the others so they become just like the favorite club.

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17861876

Just ask any question, this is new stuff for many readers and it might sound very advanced but its not, its very easy and strait forward when we have found out what set up for play lenght thats the best for us.


PS! 3 degreeds stronger is 0.75 clubs longer or somthing in the area of 8-10 yards depending on club speed, so you improved impact and got a higher smashfactor and more ball speed, thats where the rest of the distance came from.
1 mph extra ball speed moves us on average 2 yards longer, so it seems like ball speed was up 2-3 mph vs before.

Edited by Howard Jones, 13 October 2018 - 01:35 AM.


18

#49 tom.lockhart

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:17 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 13 October 2018 - 12:35 AM, said:

View Posttom.lockhart, on 12 October 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

I owe you a damn KEG!

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Now I just have to decide if I  leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

This is my suggestion if this ends up with that you would have to take care of this your self.
Most of us benefit from shorter long irons, but thats not always good in the short end, and you have already noticed that, but we can actually have both. You have also found that resistance and balance is highly important for you, and that leads me to suggest a 3/8" set up with progressive SW value to "poor mans moi match".

If the 3/8" route is new for you, spend some minutes to read about it in this tread where the issues was the same...going shorter like you starting out now, but there was options this players have not heard of before, but a few of them in the tread saw the idea and consept as interesting and did it.

In your case that means we can leave the longest iron as it is now, nd then add extensions to the others both for play lenght and SW reason, and since we are adding 1/8" then 2/8" then 3/8" vs how they are now, we add 0.75 SWP for each 1/8"
If your set up is 3-PW then a start from the #7 iron gives a #3 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)
if your set up is 4-PW then a start from the #8 iron gives a #4 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)
Both this set ups gives a short end in the area of standard play lenght, so you go longer vs now into the short.

Start with this post, and study the chart for starting points to see how the different 3/8" set ups looks like vs standard, we can get the short or long or both ends adjusted vs standard so our stance and ability to make a good impact is the best "all the way"....
Using Progressive SW with a slope of 0.5 SWP on 3/8" sets makes all clubs to be "identical" on actual resistance, so when we have tuned up our favorite club, and measured what SW value that club has when it works as we want it, we draw the SW slope both ways from that club to get target values for the others so they become just like the favorite club.

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17861876

Just ask any question, this is new stuff for many readers and it might sound very advanced but its not, its very easy and strait forward when we have found out what set up for play lenght thats the best for us.


PS! 3 degreeds stronger is 0.75 clubs longer or somthing in the area of 8-10 yards depending on club speed, so you improved impact and got a higher smashfactor and more ball speed, thats where the rest of the distance came from.
1 mph extra ball speed moves us on average 2 yards longer, so it seems like ball speed was up 2-3 mph vs before.

Thank you for that, I did read through that thread but my head is definitely spinning.

I'm confused on where to start, i carry 5-GW in the AP1. What would my ideal lengths and swingweight look like?

the lengths today are:

5- 37.5
6 - 37
7 - 36.5
8- 36
9- 35.5
PW- 35.25
GW - 35
Titleist 917 D2 10.5* (9.75*) Diamana D+
Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana S+
Titleist 917 F2 18* Diamana S+
Titleist 816 H1 19* Atmos Blue
Titleist 816 H1 23* Diamana S+
Titleist 718 AP1 5-W i95 Steelfiber
Titleist SM6 54.10S
2016 Bettinardi BB1
Snell MTB Black

19

#50 Howard Jones

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:43 AM

View Posttom.lockhart, on 13 October 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 13 October 2018 - 12:35 AM, said:

View Posttom.lockhart, on 12 October 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

I owe you a damn KEG!

Played yesterday and the irons are BACK, Was striping them like I normally would, the ball was flying higher and further. I now have to recalculate my yardages as I flew the first 4 greens of the day. I hit multiple 6irons about 160 carry, which is FAR for me. It's about 15 yards further than the 712s I had, not sure how much of that would be the 3* stronger loft and how much is the new head/shaft combo.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Now I just have to decide if I  leave the lead tape on the clubs, or try to go a tip weight route, or go the lengthen route. I'm thinking now I may go the lengthen route, as the lower wedges, PW and 48* do feel a little bit short to me.

This is my suggestion if this ends up with that you would have to take care of this your self.
Most of us benefit from shorter long irons, but thats not always good in the short end, and you have already noticed that, but we can actually have both. You have also found that resistance and balance is highly important for you, and that leads me to suggest a 3/8" set up with progressive SW value to "poor mans moi match".

If the 3/8" route is new for you, spend some minutes to read about it in this tread where the issues was the same...going shorter like you starting out now, but there was options this players have not heard of before, but a few of them in the tread saw the idea and consept as interesting and did it.

In your case that means we can leave the longest iron as it is now, nd then add extensions to the others both for play lenght and SW reason, and since we are adding 1/8" then 2/8" then 3/8" vs how they are now, we add 0.75 SWP for each 1/8"
If your set up is 3-PW then a start from the #7 iron gives a #3 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)
if your set up is 4-PW then a start from the #8 iron gives a #4 iron 0.5" shorter than std (or like it is now)
Both this set ups gives a short end in the area of standard play lenght, so you go longer vs now into the short.

Start with this post, and study the chart for starting points to see how the different 3/8" set ups looks like vs standard, we can get the short or long or both ends adjusted vs standard so our stance and ability to make a good impact is the best "all the way"....
Using Progressive SW with a slope of 0.5 SWP on 3/8" sets makes all clubs to be "identical" on actual resistance, so when we have tuned up our favorite club, and measured what SW value that club has when it works as we want it, we draw the SW slope both ways from that club to get target values for the others so they become just like the favorite club.

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17861876

Just ask any question, this is new stuff for many readers and it might sound very advanced but its not, its very easy and strait forward when we have found out what set up for play lenght thats the best for us.


PS! 3 degreeds stronger is 0.75 clubs longer or somthing in the area of 8-10 yards depending on club speed, so you improved impact and got a higher smashfactor and more ball speed, thats where the rest of the distance came from.
1 mph extra ball speed moves us on average 2 yards longer, so it seems like ball speed was up 2-3 mph vs before.

Thank you for that, I did read through that thread but my head is definitely spinning.

I'm confused on where to start, i carry 5-GW in the AP1. What would my ideal lengths and swingweight look like?

the lengths today are:

5- 37.5
6 - 37
7 - 36.5
8- 36
9- 35.5
PW- 35.25
GW - 35

Play length is easy, leave the #5 iron as it is, 0.5 shorter than STD, and ADD like this

#5 - No change, leave it 0.5" shorter than STD
#6 - plus 1/8" = 37 1/8
#7 - plus 2/8" = 36 6/8
#8 - plus 3/8" = 36 3/8
#9 - plus 4/8" = 36.00 or Back at standard play length
PW plus 3/8" = 35 5/8 or 1/8" shorter than std.
GW plus 2/8" = 35 2/8 (if you want it longer?)


Swing weight - This CANT be done before clubs are adjusted on play length like suggested.
Grab what ever club in the set that is your favorite, and tune it up with lead tape (never mind how much you add, DONT do any numbers during testing, just add until its to much, and step back until it feels right and works as you want it.


NOW, measure SW value on that club, and lets for the sake of example say that this was your #8 iron, and that club happens to work as you want it when SW was D2. Then we just make a slope both ways from the #8 iron with a progression of 0.5 SWP like this

GW D3.5 (if you add 2/8", if you leave it at 35.00, target value becomes D3.85 - shorter is UP on SW)
PW D3
#9 - D2.5
#8 - D2 your "fitting club"
#7-  D1.5
#6 - D1
#5 - D0.5

So, we have to do some trial and error without caring about "values" at all, just add or remove lead tape until it works, THEN its time to measure and make the slope to see where the other clubs belong to be just like that "tuned up favorite club"

Its that simple, and works every time

PS! if your fitting of this set was by using the #6 iron 0.5 shorter than STD, and with a SW value of D1, we can take a short cut, and convert the values. Since we ADD 1/8" on that club (going longer is going DOWN on SW to match)
1 inch is 1.33 SWP / 8 ( 8 x 1/8" pr inch) = 0.16 SWP (we dont have to care when we go below 0.25 SWP), so if this is the case, just use the slope i wrote here, where you start with a #6 of D1, and the rest will have target specs as i wrote them up.

I know this sound strange for most players, but if your fitting club WAS the #6 iron and D1, your PW want feel the same before it has the value of D3 with the play length we found, and so goes for the others, the values you see DONT ADD resistance like those numbers seems to indicate, its only a correction factor we have to use to eliminate the error a SW scale makes since it cant see what play length we measure, and this "error" is 1.33 SWP pr inch. Thats why we need to use a progressive SW slope to get FLAT or equal resistance on the all.

EDIT.
*added your GW, and corrected a error on the PW length

Edited by Howard Jones, 13 October 2018 - 02:02 PM.


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20

#51 rybo

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:15 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

A friend of mine is the former President of the Golf Ball Division at Achusnet, we are members at the same club and play 2 -3 times a week in the same group.  Played golf with him and the local Titleist rep today, confirmed that they definitely weight sort the heads into light, standard and heavy.

21

#52 Howard Jones

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:32 AM

View Postrybo, on 14 October 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 12 October 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

View Postrybo, on 11 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

So you requested a D1 swingweight and Titleist built these to C6.  Just an FYI Titleist weight sorts their heads into light, standard and heavy heads to allow clubs to be built as needed. I’d be speaking with someone from where they were ordered.

im not so sure they make other head wgt than standard, and if thats so, its limited for how high or low wgt there is from production, and if you dont belong to their sponsored players, i dont think any oems make any affords to sort this right, it has to go fast or they want make money. Most "custom orders" ive seen is OFF on several specs, because they dont treat their orders like a Custom Club maker does, they just grap whats closest at hand and hope it works "ok"...no pride here, but dont expect any changes to that unless you pay the extra for it.

PS! you owe me a virtual beer on this one, it was head weight like i said, and thats the first suspicion when we change play length.

A friend of mine is the former President of the Golf Ball Division at Achusnet, we are members at the same club and play 2 -3 times a week in the same group.  Played golf with him and the local Titleist rep today, confirmed that they definitely weight sort the heads into light, standard and heavy.

Good to know, but did he tell you about what tolerances they was sorted by ?
(like DG sub flex, there must be some sorting standards)

22



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