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Are you kidding me!! How come few instructors talk about this!!!!


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#61 Ghost of Snead

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:07 PM

 Jesterdoc, on 06 October 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

https://youtu.be/wq5T8P18Mfg

So would this be a drill to help the “back to target” feel?

I tried it and it felt horrible and weird and wrong. Which generally for me means I need to work on it because it’s different from what I’m currently doin’. And what I’m currently doin’ ain’t workin’

Ah, the 2 o'clock drill ... looks like Steve might have pinched that one from Bobby Lopez.

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#62 ebrasmus21

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:15 PM

 Hackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.

Whatís your point?
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#63 iteachgolf

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:29 PM

 Hackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.

I help people make it happen on a daily basis.  And that 2Ē is drastically different than what most amateurs do and it makes a big difference.

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#64 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:32 PM

 Hackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.

Difference between a flushed shot and a shank 2Ē
Difference between a ball in the fairway and a slide OB is a few degrees.
Difference between a compressed iron and laying sod, an inch.
Difference between a piped drive and a toe hook in left rough, an inch.

Good luck trying to make those things happen.

People too often poo poo what they donít understand.  Itís not about the amount of movement itís about getting the movement right, which is down and not up.

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#65 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:41 PM

 Hackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.

Feel is much bigger than two inches because it is going down as it starts to rotate and move laterally. The rotation would make it move up independent of any down move so 2 down is more like 3 or 4 down. Couple that with most people moving up to start with and the feel becomes 6 or 7 down as a feel.


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#66 mstram

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:05 PM

The only reason Scott, DJ's  left shoulders are moving down in the transition is because they have rotated their shoulders more than 90 deg on the backswing, to the point the "shoulder-point" has moved UP ! (relative to the face on horizontal / horizon).

The shoulders turn LEVEL relative to the spine.

So of course, to turn the shoulders on the downswing, the left shoulder APPEARS to moves "down", but that is just from a face on perspective relative to horizontal.

Every good golf swing I've seen has the shoulders moving together, in the same plane of motion.

Without a golf club in your hands, or without the intention of a golf swing, you can move your shoulders independently all over the place, but making a swing ? ... turn one or the other shoulder, ... your preference .. the other shoulder will "follow".

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#67 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:10 PM

 mstram, on 06 October 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

The only reason Scott, DJ's  left shoulders are moving down in the transition is because they have rotated their shoulders more than 90 deg on the backswing, to the point the "shoulder-point" has moved UP ! (relative to the face on horizontal / horizon).

The shoulders turn LEVEL relative to the spine.

So of course, to turn the shoulders on the downswing, the left shoulder APPEARS to moves "down", but that is just from a face on perspective relative to horizontal.

Every good golf swing I've seen has the shoulders moving together, in the same plane of motion.

Without a golf club in your hands, or without the intention of a golf swing, you can move your shoulders independently all over the place, but making a swing ? ... turn one or the other shoulder, ... your preference .. the other shoulder will "follow".

Amount of shoulder turn doesn’t preclude it.

Regaining flexion properly is where much of the cause lies.

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#68 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:33 PM

 mstram, on 06 October 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

The only reason Scott, DJ's  left shoulders are moving down in the transition is because they have rotated their shoulders more than 90 deg on the backswing, to the point the "shoulder-point" has moved UP ! (relative to the face on horizontal / horizon).

The shoulders turn LEVEL relative to the spine.

So of course, to turn the shoulders on the downswing, the left shoulder APPEARS to moves "down", but that is just from a face on perspective relative to horizontal.

Every good golf swing I've seen has the shoulders moving together, in the same plane of motion.

Without a golf club in your hands, or without the intention of a golf swing, you can move your shoulders independently all over the place, but making a swing ? ... turn one or the other shoulder, ... your preference .. the other shoulder will "follow".

Shoulders absolutely do not move in the "same plane" in the downswing. Kwon has shown that repeatedly.

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#69 iteachgolf

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:34 PM

 mstram, on 06 October 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

The only reason Scott, DJ's  left shoulders are moving down in the transition is because they have rotated their shoulders more than 90 deg on the backswing, to the point the "shoulder-point" has moved UP ! (relative to the face on horizontal / horizon).

The shoulders turn LEVEL relative to the spine.

So of course, to turn the shoulders on the downswing, the left shoulder APPEARS to moves "down", but that is just from a face on perspective relative to horizontal.

Every good golf swing I've seen has the shoulders moving together, in the same plane of motion.

Without a golf club in your hands, or without the intention of a golf swing, you can move your shoulders independently all over the place, but making a swing ? ... turn one or the other shoulder, ... your preference .. the other shoulder will "follow".

Not true at all.  It doesnít ďappearĒ  to move down. It does move down.  Sternum and head both move down and forward.  And it stays lower well past 90* and visible in players who donít turn past 90*.   Itís not a visual illusion, itís measurable on 3D.


https://imgur.com/a/0HxikJR

Another good example from a guy who hits it about as good as anyone IMO

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#70 Krt22

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 06:48 PM

 Hackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.

2" down vs level or moving up makes a huge difference in low point control... especially when the golf ball is only 1.5" in diameter and hitting it 1/2" too high or low makes a huge difference in shot quality.

Think about it a little more before you continue to write it off just because you can't comprehend the importance of a subtle movement



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#71 Go_Time

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 06:50 PM

Are there any adjustments or swing thoughts when working on this with driver v. irons?

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#72 Shilgy

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 07:43 PM

 Hackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.
True, but it's a six inch mistake. Instead of looking at it as just 2 down it could be 4 up, or more, by swinging the shoulders too flat going forward. Even zero down is a benefit as it keeps you in the proper positions.

Edited by Shilgy, 06 October 2018 - 08:30 PM.

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#73 kadey

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 08:09 PM

So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?

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#74 Shilgy

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 08:32 PM

 kadey, on 06 October 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?
I would say in the case of Adam Scott it's really just keeping spine angle constant. By going past his chin the L shoulder move a titch up at the end of the backswing. So going a bit down is just continued rotation.
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#75 iteachgolf

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 08:55 PM

 Shilgy, on 06 October 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

 kadey, on 06 October 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?
I would say in the case of Adam Scott it's really just keeping spine angle constant. By going past his chin the L shoulder move a titch up at the end of the backswing. So going a bit down is just continued rotation.

Itís not continued rotation. His belt buckle lowers, his left leg increases in flex, his sternum drops and his head works down.  Itís much more than just continued rotation


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#76 oukeith

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 08:58 PM

 Jesterdoc, on 06 October 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

https://youtu.be/wq5T8P18Mfg

So would this be a drill to help the ďback to targetĒ feel?

I tried it and it felt horrible and weird and wrong. Which generally for me means I need to work on it because itís different from what Iím currently doiní. And what Iím currently doiní ainít workiní

I have a history of shoulder lunging to start the forward swing.  I thought that was what you were supposed to do.  Donít ask.

So this move to me feels like I contact the ball while still fully coiled.  Of course that isnít what is happening, but that is how it feels.  

Result from this focus for me has been greatly improved contact and shot shape.  No more push slices OB as long as I execute.

Edited by oukeith, 06 October 2018 - 08:59 PM.


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#77 mstram

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:05 PM

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

https://imgur.com/a/0HxikJR Another good example from a guy who hits it about as good as anyone IMO

Who is that ?
Do you have the whole swing ? .. would love to see it.

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#78 wmblake2000

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:12 PM

 MonteScheinblum, on 05 October 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

It’s a bunch of different things.  Hopefully, you only have to do 1/2 things and get them all.

Left arm off chest
Left shoulder off chin
“Keep back to target”
Left shoulder down and forward to left leg
Lead with right elbow
Stay in left tilt longer
Regain flexion
Dropping arms (out and forward too)

All of those are basically the same move.  It’s all how you perceive it.

Haha. I have practiced almost all of these feels. But I am clinically nuts.

The only one I don’t do is regain flexion. Because I don’t know what it means and sincerely hope no one tries to explain it.
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#79 iteachgolf

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:12 PM

 mstram, on 06 October 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

https://imgur.com/a/0HxikJR Another good example from a guy who hits it about as good as anyone IMO

Who is that ?
Do you have the whole swing ? .. would love to see it.

Julian Suri

Iíve never posted that whole swing but hereís one I have posted

https://instagram.com/p/Bn4a2EPFEY2/

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#80 wmblake2000

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:37 PM

 kadey, on 06 October 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?

The way I have been thinking about this is my butt sticks out as I also increase the bend at my hips/spine/lower my head and move my hands away from my chest. If I don’t do all that I’ll hit the hosel.

That’s the thing that hits me - this whole transition move is a related set of changes - from pulling the handle vertically and goat humping and standing up (decreasing angel between hips/spine) early to the opposite.

I hadn’t seen this thread till just now. It’s reassuring to me.

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#81 Shilgy

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 10:44 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 06 October 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

View Postkadey, on 06 October 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?
I would say in the case of Adam Scott it's really just keeping spine angle constant. By going past his chin the L shoulder move a titch up at the end of the backswing. So going a bit down is just continued rotation.

Itís not continued rotation. His belt buckle lowers, his left leg increases in flex, his sternum drops and his head works down.  Itís much more than just continued rotation
Thank you for correcting me. As I was posting I thought sure there was more.
So it's more of a compression move like readying yourself to jump?
  In Scott's case there is very little other lowering, mostly appears to be the rotation. Others lower much further.
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#82 Nard_S

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 10:58 PM

View Postkadey, on 06 October 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?

Nicklaus talked about "releasing from the top"....I never understood that comment but this move is releasing shoulders downward into the gut, dropping or more like throwing the shoulder girdle down (it's a fast move) in concert with re-pivot and with arms that are going down and outward. On the occasions I can do this right it feels akin to what Jack was talking about.

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#83 80sFredriksson

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 02:14 AM

View PostGolfbeat, on 06 October 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

View Postjromes23, on 05 October 2018 - 11:09 PM, said:

Lead shoulder actually should always move up and out

Only after impact it should move up, in and back.

Shouldnít it start moving that way before impact?

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#84 mstram

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 02:17 AM

View PostNard_S, on 06 October 2018 - 10:58 PM, said:

this move is releasing shoulders downward into the gut, dropping or more like throwing the shoulder girdle down (it's a fast move) in concert with re-pivot and with arms that are going down and outward.

Good grief, and I thought that I had the weirdest swing thoughts ;)

What the heck is a "re-pivot" ?

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#85 vman

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 06:09 AM

I wish RblmGuy would just come in here and clean all this up with a few words of wisdom. :polling:

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#86 Obee

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 06:40 AM

View Postmstram, on 06 October 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

The only reason Scott, DJ's  left shoulders are moving down in the transition is because they have rotated their shoulders more than 90 deg on the backswing, to the point the "shoulder-point" has moved UP ! (relative to the face on horizontal / horizon).

The shoulders turn LEVEL relative to the spine.

So of course, to turn the shoulders on the downswing, the left shoulder APPEARS to moves "down", but that is just from a face on perspective relative to horizontal.

Every good golf swing I've seen has the shoulders moving together, in the same plane of motion.

Without a golf club in your hands, or without the intention of a golf swing, you can move your shoulders independently all over the place, but making a swing ? ... turn one or the other shoulder, ... your preference .. the other shoulder will "follow".

I'm no Adam Scott (by a long shot), and my swing is homemade, but

https://www.youtube....5&v=xR8TJucX3pg

Definitely "down" in transition with the left shoulder for me. It's a "compressing" move for sure, which is GREAT for lofted clubs (looks like Scott is hitting some kind of wedge there). Too much can be BAD for less-lofted clubs, though I would suspect there to be less of it with a longer club, generally (Thoughts Dan? Monte?).

Edited by Obee, 07 October 2018 - 06:41 AM.

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#87 GolfTurkey

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 07:08 AM

All I know is that this move was worth 10 mph chs to me, seems almost like black magic.

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#88 Nard_S

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 07:54 AM

View Postmstram, on 07 October 2018 - 02:17 AM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 06 October 2018 - 10:58 PM, said:

this move is releasing shoulders downward into the gut, dropping or more like throwing the shoulder girdle down (it's a fast move) in concert with re-pivot and with arms that are going down and outward.

Good grief, and I thought that I had the weirdest swing thoughts ;)

What the heck is a "re-pivot" ?

Lol......guess I should say, "get weight to left side".............on 2nd thought, no.

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#89 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 08:31 AM

View PostShilgy, on 06 October 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

View PostHackinator, on 06 October 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 06 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Posted Image

Omg, so we are talking about 2 inch move.  Good luck trying to make that happen.
True, but it's a six inch mistake. Instead of looking at it as just 2 down it could be 4 up, or more, by swinging the shoulders too flat going forward. Even zero down is a benefit as it keeps you in the proper positions.

This is just my perception of it, but it looks like the photos aren’t lined up quite evenly. The one on the left looks just a bit lower (look at the grass). If they matched it looks like it would show even more drop on the right.

I have no idea on the swing talk going on, just noticed that in the picture.
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#90 AFcelica

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 08:56 AM

^^ it's called a slope


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